RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: GeoffTurner on Sunday 29 March 20 23:30 BST (UK)

Title: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Sunday 29 March 20 23:30 BST (UK)
A family history lists a woman marrying Lionel John Arculus Bennett (1918-1962) on 28 Jun 1957 but tells us nothing more about her. I'd like to find out more. She may be alive so I won't mention her name. Since I started this thread I have bought the Vic BDM of the marriage, which was in 1958, not 1957.  She was born in Fremantle WA about 1934, going on the marr cert, but may have been born later given that her parents were married in 1937 and she might have wanted to downplay the age difference to her husband. She is on the electoral roll in Victoria in 1963 as Bennett and there is a woman of the same name on a NSW roll, also in 1963, which could be her but probably isn't.  I have had feedback which led me to buy the marriage certificate, thanks, and that has given me a lot more leads, along with the other responses. So thanks to you all. Geoff
Title: Re: xxxxx not known to be deceased but married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: majm on Monday 30 March 20 01:07 BST (UK)
Hi Geoff,

You should consider that she is still living, until such time as you are certain she is not.  So, please consider removing her actual name from your topic heading and from your opening post.

JM
Title: Re: xxxxx married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: majm on Monday 30 March 20 01:15 BST (UK)
What to expect on Vic BDM images that you can purchase online and download immediately on line...

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/  takes you to :

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369963.0  which then takes you to :

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html

which includes :
Marriages
 Date and place of marriage;
 name and surnames;
 conjugal condition, whether bachelor or spinster, widow or widower,
 stating date of decease of former wife or husband;
 children by each former marriage;
 birthplace;
 occupation;
 age;
 residence (present and usual);
 parent's names of each party (including mother's maiden name) and occupation of    father;
 signatures of the parties and witnesses;
 signature of Minister. Prior to 1963 the date of termination of previous marriages of  the parties is also shown.


Your opening post mentions that you have located the reference number as 10827/1958 for their marriage.   :)  :)

https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/research-and-family-history/search-your-family-history   

Discounted certificates for the month of March
To say 'thank you' to our valued family historians, we are offering downloadable uncertified historical certificates for $20 each for the entire month of March. This is a saving of $4.50 per certificate.

Records of births, marriages and deaths can provide unique insight into your family history and identity.


It is already 30 March 2020.   ;D  ;D

JM
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 01:22 BST (UK)
I'll get the marriage cert. I'd like to delete this whole thread for the reason you mentioned but don't know how. I don't think there would be any point having the thread without the name.
Title: ..... married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: majm on Monday 30 March 20 01:26 BST (UK)
It is possible to keep the thread,  just modify to remove her name.   There are many very experienced RChatters who will know how to help you based on the VIC reference number and the name of the chap she married.

JM
Title: xxxx married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: majm on Monday 30 March 20 01:36 BST (UK)
So for example, there are RChatters who understand how Vic BDM records work.   I am NSW centric, so not much chop with Vic BDM .... but ...

The Vic bdm index online has sufficient info displaying there, IF they search for Lionel BENNETT's marriage in 1958.   :)  So you only need to remove her name from your topic headings in each of your posts, and from the paragraphs in your opening post.   The experienced RChatters will then be able to send you any info they find by the PM system, and if they find details showing she is no longer living they will likely post a message on this thread.

In that way, we have protected her privacy, assuming she is still living.  Very strict rules about personal privacy right across Australia, in all eight jurisdictions.  :)

JM
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 01:48 BST (UK)
OK, now that I have protected her privacy and bought the marriage cert I don't expect there will be much else people can help me with. Thanks for putting me on the right path, JM.
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: CassT on Monday 30 March 20 01:57 BST (UK)
Hi, now that you have the marriage cert, you hopefully will know her parents given names.
If you can find a death /funeral notice for them, maybe the notices might give you a clue if she was still living at the time of their deaths and possibly her surname.

Good luck

Cass
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 02:18 BST (UK)
Thanks Cass, I'll go hunting in Trove. Her parents were both still alive in 1958, but her father was retired. 
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: majm on Monday 30 March 20 02:21 BST (UK)
a good resource is the ryerson index for classifieds Deaths/funerals

https://www.ryersonindex.org/

JM
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 04:31 BST (UK)
OK, now that I have protected her privacy and bought the marriage cert I don't expect there will be much else people can help me with. Thanks for putting me on the right path, JM.

I can see her name in your 1st post.  ???

Jamjar
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 04:40 BST (UK)
Her married name is still there but not her maiden name (I hope). The reference to the Vic BDM will get you that anyway, in a public document. I have found her parents grave markers in WA and know a lot more about the family now. Someone has offered to check materials she has access to in case she is mentioned at the time of her parents' death. If you think me mentioning her married name is a problem I will delete that. Geoff
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 04:43 BST (UK)
Yes, her married name should be removed.

Have you considered that she may have remarried.

His headstone: https://billiongraves.com/grave/Lionel-A-J-Bennett/27704079

Jamjar
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: judb on Monday 30 March 20 04:47 BST (UK)
As she was only 28 when Lionel died I would think it  likely that she would have remarried.  JM's suggestion re finding her parents may help. 

Judith
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 04:51 BST (UK)
OK, I'll do that, although I fear the original post will become pretty meaningless. She was actually quite a bit younger than him. The marriage cert says he was 39 and she was 24 (in 1958), which makes her born about 1934. But her parents were married in Cottesloe WA in Apr 1937. I'm guessing she may have been born after that but increased her age on the marr cert because she was more like 21 to his 39 years.  Or maybe she was born before the marriage. The WA BDM does not cover births after 1932.
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 04:59 BST (UK)
Hopefully her name is completely gone now.
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 05:18 BST (UK)
May be her sister:

CARRA Lorraine Death notice 17 Dec 2015 Death Bendigo Advertiser 19 Dec 2015

CARRA Lorraine Funeral notice 23 Dec 2015 Funeral Herald Sun (Melbourne) 22 Dec 2015

Not showing on Bendigo cemetery search.

Notice, sadly not mentioning family members:

https://tributes.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/obituaries/bendigoadvertiser-au/obituary.aspx?n=lorraine-carra&pid=176942274&fhid=7997

Jamjar

Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 05:22 BST (UK)
What are her folk’s names?

Jamjar
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 05:28 BST (UK)
Her father: John William de Gruchy. Born Perth 1898, died Fremantle 30 Aug 1973. Her mother: Mavis Anne Pannell. Born Subiaco 27 Mar 1914, died WA 14 Apr 1969.
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 05:30 BST (UK)
Karrakatta Cemetery and Crematorium, Western Australia. I have used the Ask A Librarian service at the WA State library to see if they can find death notices for them, and tell me if she is Mrs Bennett in those.
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 05:34 BST (UK)
Karrakatta Cemetery and Crematorium, Western Australia. I have used the Ask A Librarian service at the WA State library to see if they can find death notices for them, and tell me if she is Mrs Bennett in those.

Good idea.

Wonder what the girls were doing in VIC.

Jamjar
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 05:45 BST (UK)
Haven't quite worked out why you think Lorraine Carra might have been her sister. I might be a bit slow today lol
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: CassT on Monday 30 March 20 05:50 BST (UK)
Could be a brother
https://australianbluegrass.com.au/south-australian-luthier-dies
Ancestry Tree has B, R and V as children Of John William and Mavis Ann.
Cass

Modified this could be the R
 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/158108439

added "sorry Jamjar"
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 05:52 BST (UK)
There is a Lorraine of the same surname marrying in VIC the following year, I think it was.

Jamjar
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 05:53 BST (UK)
Could be a brother

https://australianbluegrass.com.au/south-australian-luthier-dies


Ancestry Tree has B (possibly died 2016) R, and V, as children Of John William and Mavis Ann.

Cass

Cass you need to remove their names, as possibly still living.
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 06:03 BST (UK)
There are a few recent obits in WA of people by that surname, so there may have been a few families of them, even though it was a new one for me. The maiden name of the wife's paternal grandmother was Bennett. It's possible that there was a connection between her grandmother Bennett and the Victorian Bennett family she was marrying into, and that's why she (and her sister?) came to Victoria.
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 06:09 BST (UK)
Funny you should mention that.

The sister of John William died in 1906 as Esther Bennett, 1st column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article25640542

Have you seen that NAA has military records for John William (WA) and a William John (VIC)

Lorraine could be the daughter of William and Susan.

Jamjar

Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 06:14 BST (UK)
I have no luck searching the De Gunchy surname on WABDM, no matter how I write it.

Jamjar



Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 06:20 BST (UK)
Degruchy   John William      William Vandin   Bennett Frances Elizabeth   Perth      3124   1898
Degruchy   Lincoln Bennett      William Vandin   Bennett Frances Elizabeth   Leederville      3523   1903
Degruchy   Esther Bennett      William Vandin   Bennett Francis Elizabeth   Leederville      3848   1905
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: maddys52 on Monday 30 March 20 06:27 BST (UK)
Doesn't help much - but mention of V in WA in Oct 1950 attending a ball at Maddington Hall (in pale blue silk ballerina [length gown])
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article149805154
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 06:28 BST (UK)
Thanks for those. It’s working now, must have been a glitch.

Jamjar
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 06:29 BST (UK)
Doesn't help much - but mention of V in WA in Oct 1950 attending a ball at Maddington Hall (in pale blue silk ballerina [length gown])
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article149805154

You need to remove her name.

Jamjar
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: maddys52 on Monday 30 March 20 06:39 BST (UK)
Doesn't help much - but mention of V in WA in Oct 1950 attending a ball at Maddington Hall (in pale blue silk ballerina [length gown])
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article149805154

You need to remove her name.

Jamjar

Ok, I thought just her first name would be ok, but I've changed it to her initial.
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 06:39 BST (UK)
Degruchy   John William      William Vandin   Bennett Frances Elizabeth   Perth      3124   1898
Degruchy   Lincoln Bennett      William Vandin   Bennett Frances Elizabeth   Leederville      3523   1903
Degruchy   Esther Bennett      William Vandin   Bennett Francis Elizabeth   Leederville      3848   1905

Also a son in 1919, 1st column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article27501405

Jamjar
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 06:43 BST (UK)
If she was going to balls in 1950 then the age on the marriage cert (24 in 1958) might be correct. In which case her parents'marriage must have come after her birth.
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 06:48 BST (UK)
De Gruchy   Catherina Mary      William Vandin   Bennett Frances Elizabeth   Leederville      3089   1901
De Gruchy   Eleanor Adelaide Gwyer      William Vandin   Bennett Frances Elizabeth   Helena Vale      4727   1899
De Gruchy   Phillip V   Male            Beverley   19   1919   

Possibly others, it is hard to know when parents aren't listed
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 06:52 BST (UK)
If she was going to balls in 1950 then the age on the marriage cert (24 in 1958) might be correct. In which case her parents'marriage must have come after her birth.

It says they were only teenagers.

Jamjar
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: majm on Monday 30 March 20 06:58 BST (UK)
Has anyone searched for the Probate records for Lionel John Arculus BENNETT, a farmer who died Lalbert, Victoria on 13 January 1962.  Probate was granted 16 Nov 1962. 

ADD
https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/wills-and-probates

JM
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: majm on Monday 30 March 20 07:09 BST (UK)
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Lionel-A-J-Bennett/27704079

There is room left on this headstone for others to be memorialised on it.  It was photographed in June 2018.

JM
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 07:11 BST (UK)
Excellent service from the State Library of WA's Ask a Librarian service. The library is closed but the service is still operating. When her mother died in 1969 the death notice mentioned she was the mother of xxx. When her father died in 1973 it said he was the "dearly loved father of xxx  (Mrs V Hodge)". So we know she remarried, to a man named Hodge.
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 07:23 BST (UK)
No death notice on Ryerson Index for a woman V H.

Jamjar
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: majm on Monday 30 March 20 07:29 BST (UK)
Vic Electoral Roll 1980 Pakenham   :)
V M H
Princes Highway,
BNYP. 

NO others with that surname with an address including "Princes Hwy."

I have remembered her given names in full, and the info currently in the following post.

Excellent service from the State Library of WA's Ask a Librarian service. The library is closed but the service is still operating. When her mother died in 1969 the death notice mentioned she was the mother of Val. When her father died in 1973 it said he was the "dearly loved father of xxxxx (xxxxx )". So we know she remarried, to a man named xxxxx.

The critical issue is that RChat threads are designed to be easily found via any keyword search at Google, so we should not include identifying names in our posts until we are certain the person is no longer living or not recently deceased.   

The PM system is excellent for sharing the surname for the lass whose father died in 1973.

JM
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 30 March 20 07:38 BST (UK)
None of that surname on Bunyip cemetery, online transcription index.

Jamjar
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: judb on Monday 30 March 20 08:48 BST (UK)
White Pages has one entry of that surname still in Bunyip - not the initials you need but country people are often a mine of information!

https://www.whitepages.com.au/residential

Judith

Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 08:53 BST (UK)
Thanks, Judith.
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: CassT on Monday 30 March 20 11:58 BST (UK)
I wonder if this is the second husbands grave

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/207861749/william-robert-hodge

added

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/tributes/notice/death-notices/hodge-william-robert/3782114/
HODGE, William Robert
Date listed: 10/10/2012
HODGE. - William Robert (Bill). On Oct. 8, 2012 Suddenly at home, Koo Wee Rup Dearly loved husband of V. Loved father of .........................

Publication: Herald Sun
Cass

Modified     JM is this ok re names
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: majm on Monday 30 March 20 12:11 BST (UK)
Excellent service from the State Library of WA's Ask a Librarian service. The library is closed but the service is still operating. When her mother died in 1969 the death notice mentioned she was the mother of xxx    When her father died in 1973 it said he was the "dearly loved father of xxxxxxxx". So we know she remarried, to a man named xxxxx

Geoff,  please remove the identifying name.

You missed the gentle hint about it earlier. 

JM


Vic Electoral Roll 1980 Pakenham   :)
V M H
Princes Highway,
BNYP. 

NO others with that surname with an address including "Princes Hwy."

I have remembered her given names in full, and the info currently in the following post.

Excellent service from the State Library of WA's Ask a Librarian service. The library is closed but the service is still operating. When her mother died in 1969 the death notice mentioned she was the mother of Val. When her father died in 1973 it said he was the "dearly loved father of xxxxx (xxxxx )". So we know she remarried, to a man named xxxxx.

The critical issue is that RChat threads are designed to be easily found via any keyword search at Google, so we should not include identifying names in our posts until we are certain the person is no longer living or not recently deceased.   

The PM system is excellent for sharing the surname for the lass whose father died in 1973.

JM


JM
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Monday 30 March 20 12:12 BST (UK)
That would make him quite a bit younger. But he certainly has the right surname, the right wife’s name, and is in the right area.
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: majm on Monday 30 March 20 12:24 BST (UK)
Thanks,

JM
Excellent service from the State Library of WA's Ask a Librarian service. The library is closed but the service is still operating. When her mother died in 1969 the death notice mentioned she was the mother of xxx. When her father died in 1973 it said he was the "dearly loved father of xxx  (Mrs V Hodge)". So we know she remarried, to a man named Hodge.

JM
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: shume on Tuesday 31 March 20 05:29 BST (UK)
Geoff
If you check whitepages.com.au there is an entry of interest there in KWRup
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Tuesday 31 March 20 06:05 BST (UK)
It seems likely that she is our lady. Thanks. I will pass it on.
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: majm on Tuesday 31 March 20 06:12 BST (UK)
White Pages has one entry of that surname still in Bunyip - not the initials you need but country people are often a mine of information!

https://www.whitepages.com.au/residential

Judith


Thanks, Judith.

Geoff
If you check whitepages.com.au there is an entry of interest there in KWRup

It seems likely that she is our lady. Thanks. I will pass it on.

Pass it on ?  ... So you are searching on behalf of someone else ....

JM
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Tuesday 31 March 20 06:17 BST (UK)
I'll pass it on to other interested family members, some of whom are more closely related to the Bennett branch of my family than I am. Lionel was my 2nd cousin, once removed.
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: majm on Tuesday 31 March 20 07:31 BST (UK)
I'll pass it on to other interested family members, some of whom are more closely related to the Bennett branch of my family than I am. Lionel was my 2nd cousin, once removed.

So you should likely learn from the death cert of your second cousin, once removed,  if there were children of his 1958 marriage.  You actually have no family connection to his widow. 

JM
Title: Re: Lionel Bennett, married Victoria Australia 1957-58.
Post by: GeoffTurner on Tuesday 31 March 20 07:43 BST (UK)
I am fairly certain there were no children, and I do not intend to disturb her if indeed she is the one on the phone at that number. It is just that I have been working my way through an extremely detailed family history and when it came to her, there was nothing except her name, which was spelled incorrectly. That piqued my interest. The Rootschatters have taken me much beyond what I expected to learn, as usual. So thanks to everyone.