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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: GeoffTurner on Sunday 29 March 20 23:30 BST (UK)
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A family history lists a woman marrying Lionel John Arculus Bennett (1918-1962) on 28 Jun 1957 but tells us nothing more about her. I'd like to find out more. She may be alive so I won't mention her name. Since I started this thread I have bought the Vic BDM of the marriage, which was in 1958, not 1957. She was born in Fremantle WA about 1934, going on the marr cert, but may have been born later given that her parents were married in 1937 and she might have wanted to downplay the age difference to her husband. She is on the electoral roll in Victoria in 1963 as Bennett and there is a woman of the same name on a NSW roll, also in 1963, which could be her but probably isn't. I have had feedback which led me to buy the marriage certificate, thanks, and that has given me a lot more leads, along with the other responses. So thanks to you all. Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
You should consider that she is still living, until such time as you are certain she is not. So, please consider removing her actual name from your topic heading and from your opening post.
JM
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What to expect on Vic BDM images that you can purchase online and download immediately on line...
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/ takes you to :
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369963.0 which then takes you to :
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
which includes :
Marriages
Date and place of marriage;
name and surnames;
conjugal condition, whether bachelor or spinster, widow or widower,
stating date of decease of former wife or husband;
children by each former marriage;
birthplace;
occupation;
age;
residence (present and usual);
parent's names of each party (including mother's maiden name) and occupation of father;
signatures of the parties and witnesses;
signature of Minister. Prior to 1963 the date of termination of previous marriages of the parties is also shown.
Your opening post mentions that you have located the reference number as 10827/1958 for their marriage. :) :)
https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/research-and-family-history/search-your-family-history
Discounted certificates for the month of March
To say 'thank you' to our valued family historians, we are offering downloadable uncertified historical certificates for $20 each for the entire month of March. This is a saving of $4.50 per certificate.
Records of births, marriages and deaths can provide unique insight into your family history and identity.
It is already 30 March 2020. ;D ;D
JM
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I'll get the marriage cert. I'd like to delete this whole thread for the reason you mentioned but don't know how. I don't think there would be any point having the thread without the name.
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It is possible to keep the thread, just modify to remove her name. There are many very experienced RChatters who will know how to help you based on the VIC reference number and the name of the chap she married.
JM
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So for example, there are RChatters who understand how Vic BDM records work. I am NSW centric, so not much chop with Vic BDM .... but ...
The Vic bdm index online has sufficient info displaying there, IF they search for Lionel BENNETT's marriage in 1958. :) So you only need to remove her name from your topic headings in each of your posts, and from the paragraphs in your opening post. The experienced RChatters will then be able to send you any info they find by the PM system, and if they find details showing she is no longer living they will likely post a message on this thread.
In that way, we have protected her privacy, assuming she is still living. Very strict rules about personal privacy right across Australia, in all eight jurisdictions. :)
JM
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OK, now that I have protected her privacy and bought the marriage cert I don't expect there will be much else people can help me with. Thanks for putting me on the right path, JM.
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Hi, now that you have the marriage cert, you hopefully will know her parents given names.
If you can find a death /funeral notice for them, maybe the notices might give you a clue if she was still living at the time of their deaths and possibly her surname.
Good luck
Cass
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Thanks Cass, I'll go hunting in Trove. Her parents were both still alive in 1958, but her father was retired.
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a good resource is the ryerson index for classifieds Deaths/funerals
https://www.ryersonindex.org/
JM
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OK, now that I have protected her privacy and bought the marriage cert I don't expect there will be much else people can help me with. Thanks for putting me on the right path, JM.
I can see her name in your 1st post. ???
Jamjar
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Her married name is still there but not her maiden name (I hope). The reference to the Vic BDM will get you that anyway, in a public document. I have found her parents grave markers in WA and know a lot more about the family now. Someone has offered to check materials she has access to in case she is mentioned at the time of her parents' death. If you think me mentioning her married name is a problem I will delete that. Geoff
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Yes, her married name should be removed.
Have you considered that she may have remarried.
His headstone: https://billiongraves.com/grave/Lionel-A-J-Bennett/27704079
Jamjar
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As she was only 28 when Lionel died I would think it likely that she would have remarried. JM's suggestion re finding her parents may help.
Judith
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OK, I'll do that, although I fear the original post will become pretty meaningless. She was actually quite a bit younger than him. The marriage cert says he was 39 and she was 24 (in 1958), which makes her born about 1934. But her parents were married in Cottesloe WA in Apr 1937. I'm guessing she may have been born after that but increased her age on the marr cert because she was more like 21 to his 39 years. Or maybe she was born before the marriage. The WA BDM does not cover births after 1932.
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Hopefully her name is completely gone now.
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May be her sister:
CARRA Lorraine Death notice 17 Dec 2015 Death Bendigo Advertiser 19 Dec 2015
CARRA Lorraine Funeral notice 23 Dec 2015 Funeral Herald Sun (Melbourne) 22 Dec 2015
Not showing on Bendigo cemetery search.
Notice, sadly not mentioning family members:
https://tributes.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/obituaries/bendigoadvertiser-au/obituary.aspx?n=lorraine-carra&pid=176942274&fhid=7997
Jamjar
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What are her folk’s names?
Jamjar
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Her father: John William de Gruchy. Born Perth 1898, died Fremantle 30 Aug 1973. Her mother: Mavis Anne Pannell. Born Subiaco 27 Mar 1914, died WA 14 Apr 1969.
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Karrakatta Cemetery and Crematorium, Western Australia. I have used the Ask A Librarian service at the WA State library to see if they can find death notices for them, and tell me if she is Mrs Bennett in those.
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Karrakatta Cemetery and Crematorium, Western Australia. I have used the Ask A Librarian service at the WA State library to see if they can find death notices for them, and tell me if she is Mrs Bennett in those.
Good idea.
Wonder what the girls were doing in VIC.
Jamjar
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Haven't quite worked out why you think Lorraine Carra might have been her sister. I might be a bit slow today lol
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Could be a brother
https://australianbluegrass.com.au/south-australian-luthier-dies
Ancestry Tree has B, R and V as children Of John William and Mavis Ann.
Cass
Modified this could be the R
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/158108439
added "sorry Jamjar"
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There is a Lorraine of the same surname marrying in VIC the following year, I think it was.
Jamjar
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Could be a brother
https://australianbluegrass.com.au/south-australian-luthier-dies
Ancestry Tree has B (possibly died 2016) R, and V, as children Of John William and Mavis Ann.
Cass
Cass you need to remove their names, as possibly still living.
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There are a few recent obits in WA of people by that surname, so there may have been a few families of them, even though it was a new one for me. The maiden name of the wife's paternal grandmother was Bennett. It's possible that there was a connection between her grandmother Bennett and the Victorian Bennett family she was marrying into, and that's why she (and her sister?) came to Victoria.
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Funny you should mention that.
The sister of John William died in 1906 as Esther Bennett, 1st column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article25640542
Have you seen that NAA has military records for John William (WA) and a William John (VIC)
Lorraine could be the daughter of William and Susan.
Jamjar
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I have no luck searching the De Gunchy surname on WABDM, no matter how I write it.
Jamjar
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Degruchy John William William Vandin Bennett Frances Elizabeth Perth 3124 1898
Degruchy Lincoln Bennett William Vandin Bennett Frances Elizabeth Leederville 3523 1903
Degruchy Esther Bennett William Vandin Bennett Francis Elizabeth Leederville 3848 1905
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Doesn't help much - but mention of V in WA in Oct 1950 attending a ball at Maddington Hall (in pale blue silk ballerina [length gown])
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article149805154
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Thanks for those. It’s working now, must have been a glitch.
Jamjar
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Doesn't help much - but mention of V in WA in Oct 1950 attending a ball at Maddington Hall (in pale blue silk ballerina [length gown])
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article149805154
You need to remove her name.
Jamjar
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Doesn't help much - but mention of V in WA in Oct 1950 attending a ball at Maddington Hall (in pale blue silk ballerina [length gown])
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article149805154
You need to remove her name.
Jamjar
Ok, I thought just her first name would be ok, but I've changed it to her initial.
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Degruchy John William William Vandin Bennett Frances Elizabeth Perth 3124 1898
Degruchy Lincoln Bennett William Vandin Bennett Frances Elizabeth Leederville 3523 1903
Degruchy Esther Bennett William Vandin Bennett Francis Elizabeth Leederville 3848 1905
Also a son in 1919, 1st column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article27501405
Jamjar
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If she was going to balls in 1950 then the age on the marriage cert (24 in 1958) might be correct. In which case her parents'marriage must have come after her birth.
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De Gruchy Catherina Mary William Vandin Bennett Frances Elizabeth Leederville 3089 1901
De Gruchy Eleanor Adelaide Gwyer William Vandin Bennett Frances Elizabeth Helena Vale 4727 1899
De Gruchy Phillip V Male Beverley 19 1919
Possibly others, it is hard to know when parents aren't listed
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If she was going to balls in 1950 then the age on the marriage cert (24 in 1958) might be correct. In which case her parents'marriage must have come after her birth.
It says they were only teenagers.
Jamjar
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Has anyone searched for the Probate records for Lionel John Arculus BENNETT, a farmer who died Lalbert, Victoria on 13 January 1962. Probate was granted 16 Nov 1962.
ADD
https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/wills-and-probates
JM
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https://billiongraves.com/grave/Lionel-A-J-Bennett/27704079
There is room left on this headstone for others to be memorialised on it. It was photographed in June 2018.
JM
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Excellent service from the State Library of WA's Ask a Librarian service. The library is closed but the service is still operating. When her mother died in 1969 the death notice mentioned she was the mother of xxx. When her father died in 1973 it said he was the "dearly loved father of xxx (Mrs V Hodge)". So we know she remarried, to a man named Hodge.
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No death notice on Ryerson Index for a woman V H.
Jamjar
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Vic Electoral Roll 1980 Pakenham :)
V M H
Princes Highway,
BNYP.
NO others with that surname with an address including "Princes Hwy."
I have remembered her given names in full, and the info currently in the following post.
Excellent service from the State Library of WA's Ask a Librarian service. The library is closed but the service is still operating. When her mother died in 1969 the death notice mentioned she was the mother of Val. When her father died in 1973 it said he was the "dearly loved father of xxxxx (xxxxx )". So we know she remarried, to a man named xxxxx.
The critical issue is that RChat threads are designed to be easily found via any keyword search at Google, so we should not include identifying names in our posts until we are certain the person is no longer living or not recently deceased.
The PM system is excellent for sharing the surname for the lass whose father died in 1973.
JM
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None of that surname on Bunyip cemetery, online transcription index.
Jamjar
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White Pages has one entry of that surname still in Bunyip - not the initials you need but country people are often a mine of information!
https://www.whitepages.com.au/residential
Judith
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Thanks, Judith.
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I wonder if this is the second husbands grave
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/207861749/william-robert-hodge
added
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/tributes/notice/death-notices/hodge-william-robert/3782114/
HODGE, William Robert
Date listed: 10/10/2012
HODGE. - William Robert (Bill). On Oct. 8, 2012 Suddenly at home, Koo Wee Rup Dearly loved husband of V. Loved father of .........................
Publication: Herald Sun
Cass
Modified JM is this ok re names
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Excellent service from the State Library of WA's Ask a Librarian service. The library is closed but the service is still operating. When her mother died in 1969 the death notice mentioned she was the mother of xxx When her father died in 1973 it said he was the "dearly loved father of xxxxxxxx". So we know she remarried, to a man named xxxxx
Geoff, please remove the identifying name.
You missed the gentle hint about it earlier.
JM
Vic Electoral Roll 1980 Pakenham :)
V M H
Princes Highway,
BNYP.
NO others with that surname with an address including "Princes Hwy."
I have remembered her given names in full, and the info currently in the following post.
Excellent service from the State Library of WA's Ask a Librarian service. The library is closed but the service is still operating. When her mother died in 1969 the death notice mentioned she was the mother of Val. When her father died in 1973 it said he was the "dearly loved father of xxxxx (xxxxx )". So we know she remarried, to a man named xxxxx.
The critical issue is that RChat threads are designed to be easily found via any keyword search at Google, so we should not include identifying names in our posts until we are certain the person is no longer living or not recently deceased.
The PM system is excellent for sharing the surname for the lass whose father died in 1973.
JM
JM
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That would make him quite a bit younger. But he certainly has the right surname, the right wife’s name, and is in the right area.
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Thanks,
JM
Excellent service from the State Library of WA's Ask a Librarian service. The library is closed but the service is still operating. When her mother died in 1969 the death notice mentioned she was the mother of xxx. When her father died in 1973 it said he was the "dearly loved father of xxx (Mrs V Hodge)". So we know she remarried, to a man named Hodge.
JM
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Geoff
If you check whitepages.com.au there is an entry of interest there in KWRup
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It seems likely that she is our lady. Thanks. I will pass it on.
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White Pages has one entry of that surname still in Bunyip - not the initials you need but country people are often a mine of information!
https://www.whitepages.com.au/residential
Judith
Thanks, Judith.
Geoff
If you check whitepages.com.au there is an entry of interest there in KWRup
It seems likely that she is our lady. Thanks. I will pass it on.
Pass it on ? ... So you are searching on behalf of someone else ....
JM
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I'll pass it on to other interested family members, some of whom are more closely related to the Bennett branch of my family than I am. Lionel was my 2nd cousin, once removed.
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I'll pass it on to other interested family members, some of whom are more closely related to the Bennett branch of my family than I am. Lionel was my 2nd cousin, once removed.
So you should likely learn from the death cert of your second cousin, once removed, if there were children of his 1958 marriage. You actually have no family connection to his widow.
JM
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I am fairly certain there were no children, and I do not intend to disturb her if indeed she is the one on the phone at that number. It is just that I have been working my way through an extremely detailed family history and when it came to her, there was nothing except her name, which was spelled incorrectly. That piqued my interest. The Rootschatters have taken me much beyond what I expected to learn, as usual. So thanks to everyone.