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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: mrk on Wednesday 01 April 20 13:50 BST (UK)
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In researching ancestors from Wexford Town, I consulted the Valuation Office Books index at the NAI where I found reference to two separate townlands: Townparks in the civil parish of St Selskar and Wexford Town Parks in the civil parish of St John. However, maps found at www.townlands.ie, show the civil parish of St. Selskars as being adjacent to but not part of Townparks. As well, townlands.ie states, "There are 2 townlands that we know about in Saint John's" -- both named Townparks.
Can anyone clarify?
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IreAtlas Townland gives 3 Townparks in Co. Wexford
St. John's
St. Michael's of Feagh
St. Peters
Griffith's Valuation gives the same
Valuation Books have the above plus St Mary's, St Doologues, St. Selskar and St. Michael's
GeoHive isn't loading.
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Townparks
https://www.logainm.ie/en/54529
https://www.logainm.ie/en/54557
https://www.logainm.ie/en/54559
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It wasn't GeoHive that wasn't loading it was Edge not letting it load, can see it on Firefox,
Still a bit confusing, the oldest map show one Townparks marked just beside (East of) St Johns
The middle map shows Townparks in St.Johns and the one to the East marked as Townparks part of St.Peters.
The modern map shows the one in St.John's and another north of that near the water in St. Selskar.
Edited to say in St Selskar rather than appears to be in, comparing maps think that is correct.
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Thanks, Hallmark. I still find the information that I found to be confusing if not downright contradictory.
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Thanks, Sinann. I looked at Geohive but couldn't see Townparks when I looked at the 1837 6" map and a search for it turned up no results. It is very confusing, I suppose in part because "townparks" seems to be such a generic name. I still don't understand the apparent contradiction between the information provided in the VOB and townlands.ie.
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The S on the left is the end of St. John's
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I would speculate that these Townparks were originally green areas just outside the town walls that's why there seems to be so many in the earlier records. Maybe one near each town gate.
http://buildingsofwexford.com/town-wall/
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I would speculate that these Townparks were originally green areas just outside the town walls that's why there seems to be so many in the earlier records. Maybe one near each town gate.
http://buildingsofwexford.com/town-wall/
Yes. In Irish land use, a townpark or town park “was a small holding near a town and farmed by someone resident in the town." (Wikipedia, “Townpark.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townpark) Leases were generally short-term and rents in town parks were typically higher than those paid by full-time resident farmers.
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Thanks, Sinann. I looked at Geohive but couldn't see Townparks when I looked at the 1837 6" map and a search for it turned up no results. It is very confusing, I suppose in part because "townparks" seems to be such a generic name. I still don't understand the apparent contradiction between the information provided in the VOB and townlands.ie.
When I look at the historic 6" map on Geohive I see three (3) "Townpark" townlands. Viz. in St. John's, St. Peter's and St. Michael's of Feagh, in agreement with G.V. Which is hardly surprising, as Griffith's valuation was based on the Ordnance Survey maps.
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IreAtlas Townland gives 3 Townparks in Co. Wexford
St. John's
St. Michael's of Feagh
St. Peters
Griffith's Valuation gives the same
Valuation Books have the above plus St Mary's, St Doologues, St. Selskar and St. Michael's
GeoHive isn't loading.
Let me explain what I think is happening.
First, you seem to be double counting St. Michael's- as being on the maps and in G.V., but also as additional in the Valuation Books?
The town of Wexford contained five (5) historic urban civil parishes. That is, parishes located entirely within the town walls. From north to south, these were St. Selskar, St. Iberius, St. Patrick's, St. Mary's and St. Doologes. Almost by definition, these parishes did not extend out into the surrounding countryside - the town parks.
Outside the walls were three more parishes, St. John's, St. Peter's, and St. Michael's of Feagh. The town parks, surrounding Wexford, were located in these parishes.
Those of you who have looked at cancelled Valuation Office books for rural parishes will have noticed that they were at some point reorganized and rebound. You can see the trace of this in the page indexing of the townlands in the earlier books, which does not correspond to the actual page order. The original ordering was by civil parish. At some later point the books were changed to be organized by Electoral Division, and the earlier records were rebound and reorganized to reflect this.
But the valuation books for municipalites (towns) did not necessarily have the same organization. It seems that the cancelled Valuation Office books for Wexford town were reorganized on the basis of Wards, not Electoral Divisions. Wexford town was reincorporated in 1845, which appears to be the point at which the "modern" urban boundary was extended beyond the historic town wall limit, to include parts of the surrounding parishes.
http://www.dippam.ac.uk/eppi/documents/11985/eppi_pages/285735 (http://www.dippam.ac.uk/eppi/documents/11985/eppi_pages/285735)
Thus St. John's for example, became partly within, and partly without the Wexford Town boundary.
Note that this change happened after the generation of the original 6" OSI maps, but before the publication of Griffith's Valuation. The later cancelled Valuation Office books, having been reorganized, reflect this change. The expanded town boundary is clearly marked on the 25" map on the Geohive site.
The newly expanded Wexford town was divided into multiple wards for electoral purposes. The wards - I think there were three? - were named after some of the original urban civil parishes. I know for certain that one was St. Selskar. I think a second was St. Mary's, not sure of the third (or more). Within the town, the later (cancelled) Valuation office books are I believe organized by Ward. These wards extended beyond the original civil parishes of the same name, to include the newly incorporated surrounding land - the townlands. Thus, the Valuation Office books have some additional "townlands" - the parts of the original three Townpark townlands which were now within the boundaries of the wards comprising the expanded Wexford town.
One final note, however: I am not sure where all these changes left the original 1840s Valuation Office records, the ones created prior to the publication of Griffiths Valuation. It is these very early records which are available online!
Short summary: The boundaries of Wexford town changed (ca. 1845), between the generation of the 6" OSI maps (ca 1837-42), and the publication of Griffith's valuation in 1853. In addition, the expanded town was newly divided into wards, and later Valuation Office books were organized on the basis of these wards.
All clear?
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Townparks
https://www.logainm.ie/en/54529
https://www.logainm.ie/en/54557
https://www.logainm.ie/en/54559
The townland map associated with the second link is completely incorrect.
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Townparks
https://www.logainm.ie/en/54529
https://www.logainm.ie/en/54557
https://www.logainm.ie/en/54559
The townland map associated with the second link is completely incorrect.
Because it is an electoral district not a townland map.
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Townparks
https://www.logainm.ie/en/54529
https://www.logainm.ie/en/54557
https://www.logainm.ie/en/54559
The townland map associated with the second link is completely incorrect.
Because it is an electoral district not a townland map.
I don't think so! If you click on the right, for the link to the Electroral Division (or District), you get a different map.
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Thanks, Wexflyer for your very detailed posts!