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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: kiwi48 on Monday 06 April 20 02:43 BST (UK)
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I’m trying to find the parents of Benjamin (Ben) Buckley who married Ann Mallilew (or Mallalieu) in 1816 at Rochdale St Chads. Both Ben and Ann signed with a X. One of their witnesses was Joseph Buckley. Very few people could write their name at this time (even if they could write, their writing was poor), yet Joseph Buckley’s signature is large, bold and confident, perhaps suggesting that Joseph was an older man or someone who was in the habit of writing regularly. I’ve spent hours looking through marriage records to see if I could match the signature but so far without success. Is there anywhere else I can look? If I can identify Joseph, that may well give me the key to who Ben’s parents were. Census and burial records suggest that Ben was born around 1793/4. The most likely parents are James and Ann Buckley who had two sons, Benn baptised 1793 and Joseph, baptised 1798. They lived at Cotemanheights, Saddleworth. It’s tempting to think Ben’s brother Joseph was the witness at Ben’s wedding. But Joseph was just 18 when Ben married, Ben couldn’t sign his name (nor could James and Ann when they married) so I think it’s unlikely that Ben’s younger brother could produce such a bold confident signature. While James and Ann are the most likely parents, so far I haven’t been able to confirm it and my slight concern is that the name James doesn’t appear anywhere else in my family tree, which otherwise tends to follow the traditional naming pattern.
Can anyone offer any suggestions on how I can be sure that James and Ann are Ben’s parents? I feel the key is Joseph Buckley’s signature, and tracking down who he is. Is anyone else following this family tree? Ben and Ann were licensees of the Temple and Bowling Green, Waterhead, prior to Ben's death in 1860.
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Did you look at marriages adjacent in the register to see if Joseph Buckley was a regular signatory/ church official?
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Yes, I did try that but Joseph is not a regular witness which leads me to think he was a relative of Ben. Thanks for the suggestion though and for taking the time to reply.
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is this a possibility ?
Baptism: 7 Jul 1793 West St Baptist, Wardleworth, Lancashire, England
Benjn. Buckley - Son of Joseph Buckley & Ann, his wife
Born: 11 Apr 1793
Abode: Shover Moor in the township of Oldham and parish of Prestwich in the County of Lancaster
Registered By: Thos. Littlewood, Protestant Dissenting Minister
Wardleworth is in the Parish of Rochdale - where he also married
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you say a witness was Joseph Buckley - is it not Joshua Buckley ?
Marriage: 2 Sep 1816 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Ben Buckley - (X), this parish
Ann Mallilue - (X), this parish
Witness: Daniel Nield, Parish Clerk; Josh. Buckley
Married by Banns by: Thos. Drake D.D. Vicar .................................
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it looks like there were 3 brothers named Buckley baptising children in that Baptist church in Wardleworth
Joseph - John and James
Baptism: 7 Jul 1793 West St Baptist, Wardleworth, Lancashire, England
Benjn. Buckley - Son of Joseph Buckley & Ann, his wife
Born: 11 Apr 1793
Abode: Shover Moor in the township of Oldham and parish of Prestwich in the County of Lancaster
Registered By: Thos. Littlewood, Protestant Dissenting Minister
Register: Baptisms 1786 - 1837, Page 18
Source: LDS Family Search
Baptism: 1 Mar 1807 West St Baptist, Wardleworth, Lancashire, England
Joseph Buckley - Son of Jno. Buckley & Sarah, his wife
Born: 12 Jan 1807
Abode: Shaylane in Hundersfield in the parish of Rochdale and County of Lancaster
Registered By: Thos. Littlewood, Protestant Dissenting Minister
Register: Baptisms 1786 - 1837, Page 83
Source: LDS Family Search
Baptism: 24 Jul 1808 West St Baptist, Wardleworth, Lancashire, England
Abraham Buckley - Son of James Buckley & Mary, his wife
Born: 6 Jun 1808
Abode: Waterhouse in Hundersfield in the parish of Rochdale and County of Lancaster
Registered By: Thos. Littlewood, Protestant Dissenting Minister
Register: Baptisms 1786 - 1837, Page 92
Source: LDS Family Search
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Thank you very much for looking into this for me. I did find the Baptist church birth for Benjamin in 1793 but sadly he died the following year, also recorded in the same church register. The witness at Ben and Ann's wedding is definitely Joseph, not Joshua, in the St Chads Rochdale register. I've got an enlarged printout and it's very clear. The J in Joseph is quite unusual in the way it's written. Thanks again - I really appreciate your reply.
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It’s annoying that the children’s baptisms show Mother as ‘daughter of..’ but no provision for father as ‘son of ...’
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Just a bit of a record in case you don’t have it.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pab/
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Thanks very much for sending the link to the Directory. I hadn't come across that so I'll have a good look at it. James Buckley, who is the best fit for Ben's father, was a clothier. I see there are some Mallalieus in the directory too. :)
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A map for you - you can see the relevant places - just to the right of the pointer
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pae/
Baptisms
Ben 1822 - residence Wibsey Baptised Delph
George Thomas 1832 - residence Bowk House baptised Cherry Clough
Martha 1835 - Bowk House baptised Cherry Clough
Cherry Clough is to the left of the market.
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If I have the right family in 1851 229/ 149/1
There is a grandchild, Martha Ann Schofield - whose daughter is she?
I think the age might be wrongly transcribed.
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Thanks so much for the map which expands so clearly. I purchased a pdf of a 1924 map of Saddleworth last week which covers the area my ancestors lived in but it isn't as clear as the one you posted. The Ben Buckley at Wibsey isn't my family but the Martha Ann you found is. She is the daughter of Ben and Ann Buckley's daughter Ann who married John Schofield in 1846. Ben and Ann ran the Temple and Bowling Green pub in Waterhead. I have tried to find documents which might relate to his licensee tenure, hoping it might have an exact date of birth, but I can't find anything online. I'm born and bred in Oldham but now live in New Zealand so it's quite hard to access information like pub tenures, if they even exist.
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If you are from Oldham, you will understand the confusions with Buckley.
I have just been looking at a published tree re the family.
I am confused though re your saying Ben at Wibsey isn’t your family.
The baptism shows Ben Buckley son of Ben Buckley of Wibsey near Junction, Clothier and Ann, his wife, daughter of George and .....Malladue.
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Apologies - you are absolutely right. It is my Ben. I didn't recognise the area Wibsey. The only information I had for Ben was scant, for Delph Wesleyan with a birth and a Christening date but no place of abode, so what you have found is really helpful. Some of the other children were baptised at Cherry Clough Wesleyan and were listed as born at Bowkhouse, which is only a stones throw away from Wibsey on the map you sent. Thanks once again.
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Oh, that’s good news :)
There is another Ben and Ann Buckley, Cloth Dresser in Delph and I thought there might be some confusion.
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I forgot to mention that you can see Wibsey Cottages on street view.
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According to Freereg, lots of Buckley's born in Saddleworth, however only 4 Benjamin/Ben baptised between 1790 and 1800 and one of those, a twin died. I noticed your ancestor always uses the name Ben, rather than Benjamin and the only one baptised as Ben is the one that you thought was the most likely candidate, son of James and Ann.
My grandfather was always known as Tom and we assumed his name was Thomas, but he'd actually been christened Tom.
Another thing to suggest is that Joseph Buckley was some relative but not necessarily a brother or father. As I mentioned, Buckley was a very common name.
And lastly, I noticed his son was called Jerry. I wonder where that name came from. Is there a Jeremiah in the family anywhere?
Just a few random thoughts
Chris
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I was intrigued by Jerry. There are a few records for that name including an old and a young one (different families) at Cotemans and Coteman Heights where there are Buckleys in abundance in 1841 1279/3
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Hi Heywood, Jerry intrigues me too. You say you found two records for Jerry in 1841 for Coatmans or Coatmanheights - I only have one, for Jerry and Mary. Could you let me know who the other one is please. Jerry and Mary fascinate me. Jerry is an uncommon name so I'm fairly sure he was born in 1775 to Sarah Buckley, a spinster in Linthwaites. He married Mary Shaw in 1809 but they had a child, John, in 1800. Yes, I know, it makes no sense, does it. It gets curiouser. On the 1841 census there is a boy Joseph Mason staying with them. It turns out that he is their grandson, the son of Joseph Mason who married Mary Buckley (the daughter of Jerry and Mary). According to Mary's marriage certificate she was born in 1803, again prior to Jerry and Mary marrying. I can't find any trace of a baptism for Mary. Joseph Mason, who lived with Jerry and Mary, moved to Oldham to follow his collier profession. He married and moved around a bit, as seen in the census records, but the 1871 census is interesting. In 1871 Ann Buckley (Ben's wife) was widowed and living with her son Ben at New Road (just up the road from the Temple and Bowling Green Inn). The very next entry on the census is for Joseph Mason and his wife Hannah. So, does this suggest that are Ben and Ann related to Jerry's line in some way, or is it pure coincidence that Joseph lived there. I bought a copy of Jerry's death certificate and he died (a widower) at Austerlands, which is just along the road from New Road. Possibly he moved there to be near his grandson Joseph. The notifier is a name I don't recognise and I haven't been able to link it to the Buckley line. Anyway, if you have any thoughts on why Jerry and Mary married several years after they'd had at least two children, I'd be keen to hear them. Also I'd appreciate the other Jerry in the 1841 census in the Coatmans area. I've seen the Coatmans cottages, very similar to the Wibley cottages where Ben lived - I had a look at them on one of trip's back to the UK.
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There is a 3 yr old Jerry at the bottom of the page before Jerry and Mary.
He is transcribed as ‘Jeresp’ on Ancestry at 1841 1279 pg 2.
There is a birth in 1838 and mother is Malalue and a death in 1842.
He is in the household of James and Esther Buckley, living at Cotemans.
James Buckley of ‘Hogeclough’ married Esther Mallalieu (dittoed for residence) at St Mary’s Oldham in 1816.
There is a baptism
Esther Malladien (transcribed) 16 April 1797 parents John and Ann at St Chads, Uppermill. Residence Bridge house so no connection at this time to your Ann whose father was George.
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Thank you, I'd missed that entry for Jerry. I'll add it to my notes. Yes, as you say, Esther is from a different branch of the Mallalieus.
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Hi , I am a relative of Jerry Buckley. Ben Buckley and Ann Mallileu had a son called Jerry. Temple and Bowling Green. His son was called Ben who had a daughter called Gertie who had a daughter called Jessie who had a granddaughter ME!!! Did you say you are related from Martha? That will be my great great great grandads sister! 😍
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Hi Lockinggate
Apologies for the very long delay in replying - I have only just read your reply. Your Buckley family tree is very closely related to mine. Ben's daughter Gertie had an older brother called Matthew Mallalieu and he is my grandfather. Matthew and his wife Ellen had two children, Hilda and Clifford. Hilda was my mother. f you reply to this I will be able to message you privately so we can compare family history notes.
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Hi my email address is if that is better I am not sure how this works. We are definitely related. I have recently found Gertie and Matthew M other brother Charles his daughter and granddaughter…..so I can put you in touch with them too….
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Hi again
Rootschat won't let you send contact information in a post so your email address was removed by the system. I'll send you a message via their messenger system. Hopefully you will get it okay. I'll include my contact information in there.