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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: clancam37 on Friday 10 April 20 06:42 BST (UK)
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Searching for a possible John Walker born about 1784 who may have been associated with an early 17th century property named "High Frith". Searching Google I found this property mentioned in Cumbria. Cannot find Cumbria in many County lists -- has it another name?
High Frith is a property at Grange over Sands near Holker. Perhaps Holker was not within the borders of Cumbria in the early 17th century.
Can sks please help me.
clancam37
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Cumbria was formed in 1974 from of the old counties of Cumberland & Westmoreland with parts of Lancashire and W Yorkshire . I believe that Grange- over -Sands & Holker were in Westmoreland.
djm297
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Cumbria only came into existence in 1974 as Djm writes
Cumberland was north of what is now Cumbria.
Barrow and Ulverstone were in Lancashire and it was called Furness, all administered out of the County town which was Preston.
Westmoreland’s County town was Appleby but it became Kendal in 1889 which is where archive records will more than likely be kept.
BTW
Holker Hall is the ancestral home of the Preston, Cavendish and Lowther families. Hence if you find any of these names you may have hit the bullseye.
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In fact, historically, Appleby was our County Town.
The Records Office is in Kendal County Hall, which was built in the late 1880s.
Although our postal addresses have been in Cumbria since the 1970s, I think lots of us would still say we live in Westmorland.
Jen ( in Kendal) :)
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Hi djm297,
Many thanks for your information.
I will search through Westmoreland records now.
Keep safe.
Regards
clancam37
Cumbria was formed in 1974 from of the old counties of Cumberland & Westmoreland with parts of Lancashire and W Yorkshire . I believe that Grange- over -Sands & Holker were in Westmoreland.
djm297
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Hi Colin,
Many thanks for your input.
I am searching for a John Walker born about 1784 who came to Tasmania, Australia early 1800s. Receiving a large land grant from the Colonial Secretary he named the property "High Frith" hopefully he had some association with a similar estate in England and hence a clue to his identity. It is a long shot -- stranger things have happened.
To all in Britain our condolences for the losses due to the covid19 may it soon pass.
KInd regards
clancam37
Cumbria only came into existence in 1974 as Djm writes
Cumberland was north of what is now Cumbria.
Barrow and Ulverstone were in Lancashire and it was called Furness, all administered out of the County town which was Preston.
Westmoreland’s County town was Appleby but it became Kendal in 1889 which is where archive records will more than likely be kept.
BTW
Holker Hall is the ancestral home of the Preston, Cavendish and Lowther families. Hence if you find any of these names you may have hit the bullseye.
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As High Frith is close to Holker which is in the parish of Cartmel, it is Lancashire not Westmoreland that you need.
Did your John marry before he went to Australia?
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Hi lancsann,
Uncertain if he married prior to voyage to Tasmania?
He did marry here in 1824 to a lass born in Hobart town Tasmania.
Have had a look at old UK maps, Cartmel and Grange on Sands appear to have been in Lancashire in the 1600 to 1800s.
Thanks for your help
Regards
clancam37
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Just as a bit of history of Grange and Cartmel. There was a loop of an area which went into the Westmorland area and extended up as far as Coniston. It was part of what is still known as the county Palatine of Lancashire. It remained part of Lancashire until the reorganisation of counties in 1974 when the county of Cumbria was created. It is however still part of the Duchy of Lancaster, the Duke of Lancaster being the Queen.
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I had forgotten that Cartmel was actually in Lancashire and as it was it opens up a whole new online resource.
https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
Is an excellent site that, as I am Lancastrian, has proved invaluable for me in the records that are and are not transcribed not to mention details of the Church’s themselves.
The Holker estate and High Firth is in the Cartmel Parish where if you perform a search with a radius of 20 mikes based on the Priory Church the search returns 8 John Walker’s with a Baptism in the Priory Church in 1789. Another return is the marriage of a John Walker to an Anne Harrison in 1779 at the Priory Church which may in turn lead to John b1784
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HI Colin,
Thanks for your reply re this site and for the info re 8 John Walkers.
Will have a look at this site sounds interesting.
We are isolating here in Oz so plenty of time to search genealogy sites.
keep safe and thanks again.
clancam37
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I found Lan OPC many years ago and the Church in a small village where my ancestors lived had all their records going back four hundred years online and readily searchable.
There are limitations with RC and non conformists.
Totally at a tangent and to get a flavour for the Cartmel area of England search out the world’s best desert, Cartmel Sticky Toffee Pudding.
Stay safe.
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Hi Colin,
Could only find 2 X John Walkers on the the OPC not 8. Will search LDS site as well.
Hope to search each of the 8 to eliminate any still in Britain after 1822. Some English Counties had their 1821 Census on their OPC lists would be helpful here.
Thank you for all your help also thanks to others who contributed.
I do hope you and yours do not have this Covid menace on your doorstep.
Regards
clancam37
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Kirkby Ireleth, Satterthwaite, Urswick, (Hawkshead possibly) are all within a reasonable are for Holker but I could only find 5 baptisms between 1879 and 1889. I discounted the Bolton le Sands ones as being the wrong side of Morecambe Bay and Warton as a bit too far
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Kirkby Ireleth, Satterthwaite, Urswick, (Hawkshead possibly) are all within a reasonable are for Holker but I could only find 5 baptisms between 1879 and 1889. I discounted the Bolton le Sands ones as being the wrong side of Morecambe Bay and Warton as a bit too far
I used a 15 mile radius on Cartmel which gave the return that I quoted.
Bolton le Sands and nearby Warton are easily possible, do remember that the route in those times was from Bolton le Sands across the sands of Morecambe Bay to the Grange Over Sands area. It was a walking route and a coach route. The Queens Guide to the Sands was and indeed is presently tasked to route a safe passage across the sands to travellers.
This route is still in use today by thousands of walkers, all led by The Queens Guide to the Sands who until last year was Cedric Robinson MBE who held the position for as long as I can remember.
I was born and raised in the area and the sands of Morecambe Bay can be very treacherous so if any of you reading this find yourselves there please do not stray to far from the seafront and certainly never, ever attempt to undertake a cross bay walk without the official guide since the safe route can change very rapidly.
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I just thought it was perhaps a long way to travel when there were a few churches easily to hand.
I had forgotten the name of the guide to the bay and did not realise the route was used that far back. I have never actually crossed the bay. We spent more time up at the south end of Coniston Water at Water Yeat (fairly near Lowick)
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The route over the sands is c8.5 miles in length and has been in use for hundreds of years.
A bit of railway trivia.
The railway route from Carnforth > Arnside > Grange Over Sands > Ulverston > Barrow was competed in 1857 and the viaduct over the River Kent is spectacular and the route has amazing views.
We used to travel from Morecambe to Grange Over Sands as a family in the Fifties and early Sixties to visit friends in Grange Over Sands, I loved the journey there and back nit to mention the stunning views you get from Grange Over Sands.
It is certainly well worth the trip if anyone is into rail journeys.
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I should have known about the railway as my OH is a bit of a steam train buff! We have travelled on it in more recent years. as a Blackpudlian we did not travel to Morecambe, not that as a child we could have afforded it anyway. A summer treat was to travel by train from Blackpool North to Fleetwood!