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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: PeterProg on Saturday 11 April 20 01:49 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am researching a couple who were married in San Francisco, California in 1875. I have the specific date of the marriage - 27 Feb - but it appears from my research to date that there is no marriage certificate surviving or available for this part of California at this time. My specific interest in the record is to identify the maiden name of the bride, but it seems that I can take this search no further.
The next best thing to obtain this information might be to obtain a marriage certificate for the only one of their children who married. He was married in Santa Rosa, Sonoma County, in 1924.
I have searched online and cannot find an answer to this question - is a 1924 Marriage Certificate in California likely to contain information on the maiden name of the Groom's mother?
The same fellow who married in 1924 was in the US Army in World War I, so that may be another possible source of information on his mother's maiden name. Searching in the usual places (Ancestry etc) doesn't seem to bring up any Army enlistment or service record, though I know for sure that he was in the Army. I am sure that records for his time in the Army would exist, and I can pursue that further as a last resort.
However, I believe that any Army record is unlikely to record his mother's maiden name, while a Marriage certificate just might.
Appreciate any advice on what information I might find on a 1924 Marriage certificate. Cheers
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Here is a sample California marriage certificate from 1922. It includes the mother's maiden name.
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What is the name of the couple?
What is the name of the child who married?
There are lots of places to look...their death records, the children's death records, newspaper articles...etc...
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Thanks both for your replies.
Looks like the son's 1924 Marriage Certificate might be just what I need. I can see places online where I can order a Certificate for Informational purposes (that is I don't need it to be Authorized) but there seems only to be an option to mail the certificate to me. I am in Australia and an email with the certificate attached would be much quicker and more efficient. Any advice on US providers who would email the certificate?
I have looked pretty deeply for other sources for the maiden name, without success, but am certainly open to suggestions! Her married name was Mary E. Rogers, having married Joseph Howe Rogers in San Francisco in 1875. They had both come to California from Nova Scotia, Canada a couple of years previously. She died in an accident in Alameda in 1906. There's plenty of newspaper coverage of that and other events in her life, but no mention of her maiden name. Her son who married in 1924 in Santa Rosa was Ernest Howe Rogers. His marriage certificate should have the answer based on the certificate you shared from 1922.
Many thanks, much appreciated.
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Ernest Howe Rogers was born on 27 Jul 1885 and died 09 May 1956 in Alameda County. Buried in Golden Gate National Cemetery.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VPNT-14Q
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/41029786/ernest-h-rogers
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pbb/
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Many thanks. That's a useful link to his World War I service dates there.
Hopefully though, the 1924 Marriage Certificate for Ernest will give me the information I need re his mother's maiden name. Before ordering though, I will call the cemetery where Mary E. Rogers was interred on 5 August 1906 - Evergreen Cemetery in Oakland - just in case her maiden name made it onto the records there.
FindaGrave says that they have photographed 96% of the graves in Oakland's Evergreen Cemetery, but I can see no Mary E. Rogers when I search that page on the site. She must be among the 4% still to be photographed!
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Obituary doesn't help you but will post any way
Oakland Tribune Oakland, California 10 May 1956, Thu Page 45
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48448521/obituary-for-ernest-h-rogers-aged-70/
Sandra+
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Photo of Ernest in 1936
Oakland Tribune Oakland, California 14 Jul 1936, Tue Page 2
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48448870/ernest-rogers-14-july-1936/
Sandra
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marriage license - The Press Democrat Santa Rosa, California
24 Feb 1924, Sun Page 12
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48448912/marriage-license-24-february-1924/
Sandra
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Joseph is a blacksmith in 1880-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M6PH-RJN
Did Joseph Howe Rogers marry twice?
1900 census lists a Joseph Rogers, blacksmith, born Canada, but he's divorced not widowed. Of course, if could just be enumerator was given incorrect information. Says born Apr.1849 Canada.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M95Z-NX8
Although you have Nova Scotia as place of birth you might want to widen your searches to include New Brunswick. There's at least one Joseph Howe Rogers there (not same as yours).
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Thank you Sandra. Great to see that photo in particular - had not seen that before. Cheers
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Yes, Joseph - blacksmith originally from Nova Scotia - did divorce Mary E. Rogers, sometime in the 1890s. I've seen a couple of newspapers= articles that reference him later on, but nothing past 1906. That article notes that he has just returned from 'the North', where he is reputed to have made a lot of money.
I haven't been able to find him any time past 1906, in censuses or any other records.
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This clipping was the last mention that I have seen so far for J H Rogers
Alameda Daily Argus Alameda, California 25 Sep 1906, Tue Page 1
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48450631/j-h-rogers-25-september-1906/
Sandra
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Have you investigated the cousins that were mentioned in the newspaper article on the death of brother E J Rogers ? George and Charles Macrae (nephew/cousins) - also born in Canada.
Part 1 - Headline
Alameda Daily Argus Alameda, California 28 Jun 1907, Fri Page 1
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48451196/e-j-rogers-28-june-1907/
Part 2
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48451158/edward-j-rogers-28-june-1907-part-2/
Part 3
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48451207/e-j-rogers-part-3/
Sandra
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Could this be George ??? Not sure ???
1920 census Park Avenue Alameda, California.
George W Mac Rae 74 born Canada. Widowed.
Margaret Reynolds 54 House-Keeper.
Stanley Reynolds 23
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MHS1-83F
1910 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MV2M-KM9
George W Macrae naturalization 1896
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGG3-6KTG
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9T3-BPPK?cc=2125028&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQGG3-6KTG
Sandra
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1910 census Park Avenue Alameda Ward 2, Alameda, California.
Charles W Macrae 58 born Canada. House Builder.
Emeline H Macrae 45
Verdell E Jones 21
Helen L Jones 19
Harold H Jones 17
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MV2M-65M
1900 census ED 310 Alameda Township, Precinct 2 Alameda city, Alameda,
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MV2M-65M
1920 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MHS1-XZ2
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MHS1-XZ2
1930 census Alameda, California.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCJF-S2H
California Marriage - Charles Wllington McRae - 14 March 1900
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:H987-M7N2
Sandra
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I have looked at them, thanks though Sandra. Charles was actually executor of Mary E. Rogers estate. Remarkably, the entirety of her will is available on Ancestry.
But still no mention, in her will or anywhere else, of her maiden name, while ex-husband Joseph Rogers seems just to disappear from history after 1906!
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You didn't find a link - maybe someone here can find something.
obituary for George W MacRae - Oakland Tribune Oakland, California
23 Jun 1921, Thu Page 17
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48451894/george-w-macrae-23-june-1921/
Sandra
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Interesting though, that Charles W Macrae was the executor of the will of Mary E Rogers.
Oakland Tribune Oakland, California 17 Aug 1906, Fri Page 11
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48450694/mary-e-rogers-17-august-1906/
Oakland Tribune Oakland, California 25 Aug 1906, Sat Page 11
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48450725/mary-e-rogers-25-august-1906/
Oakland Tribune Oakland, California 4 Aug 1906, Sat Page 7
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48452801/obituary-for-mary-rogers/
Sandra
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In 1900 census Mary Rogers (divorced) is head of household with 2 sons & 'cousin' George W. MacRae. Doesn't mean her maiden name was also MacRae but would seem MacRaes are related to her.
There are various N.S. resources than might throw up something- any idea where in N.S. Joseph & Mary might have been from?
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Ernest Rogers was a book keeper for Macrae brothers in the Oakland California City Directory 1904
Sandra
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I haven’t been able to find a trace of them on Nova Scotia, though of course I don't have Mary’s surname (noting that she and Joseph married only some time after they separately arrived in San Francisco).
Mary’s exact relationship to the MacRaes is at the core of the puzzle; I kind of suspect that she was not a MacRae by birth but hopefully finding her maiden name will shed light on that.
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George Macrae Jnr of Schiller Divorce Case Fame........
Alameda Daily Argus Alameda, California 17 Feb 1906, Sat Page 1
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48455035/george-macrae-schiller-case-part-1/
part 2........
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48455074/george-macrae-part-2/
Sandra
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Working back-
Charles Wellington McRae 1898 Voter Registration.
Born Prince Edward Island
Voter reg: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VNF6-JN1
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His first wife Millicent died 1898 Alameda, California.
DEATH OF MRS McRAE -
Mrs Millicent McRae wife of Charles W McRae died last evening at 6 p.m. at her home 1109 Park avenue. Mrs McRae was born in Prince Edwards Island and had resided in Alameda for the last nine years. She has been suffering for sometime from consumption and finally succumbed She leaves no children. The funeral service will be held at the Free Methodist Church 1418 Park avenue tomorrow at 10 a. m. Interment at Mountain View Cemetery.
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This would be them in the 1881 census.
1881 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MVNQ-2LP
Image: https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1881&op=&img&id=e008112446
This appears to be their marriage record in 1872.
Marriage: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVBJ-2KSM
That's as back as I've got. Not much knowledge of Canadian genealogy.
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Thanks to everyone for your advice, information and assistance.
I called the Evergreen Cemetery this morning and they will get back to me if the maiden name information is included with the burial record of Mary E. Rogers. If not, I will order the Marriage Certificate for her son Ernest and hopefully the information will be there.
With processing and shipping time, it is likely to be quite a few weeks before I would see a Certificate, so fingers crossed that the burial record from 1906 might do the trick. I will post on here the outcome of my quest regardless.
And, while not essential to the information I am seeking, if anyone could solve the mystery of what became of Mary's ex-husband, the blacksmith Joseph Howe Rogers who simply disappears from history after a newspaper reference to 'making considerable money in the North' in September 1906, that would be good to know too.
Many thanks
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Thanks to everyone for your advice, information and assistance.
I called the Evergreen Cemetery this morning and they will get back to me if the maiden name information is included with the burial record of Mary E. Rogers. If not, I will order the Marriage Certificate for her son Ernest and hopefully the information will be there.
Interesting though, that Charles W Macrae was the executor of the will of Mary E Rogers.
Oakland Tribune Oakland, California 17 Aug 1906, Fri Page 11
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48450694/mary-e-rogers-17-august-1906/
Oakland Tribune Oakland, California 25 Aug 1906, Sat Page 11
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48450725/mary-e-rogers-25-august-1906/
Oakland Tribune Oakland, California 4 Aug 1906, Sat Page 7
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48452801/obituary-for-mary-rogers/
Sandra
Many thanks
Going back to the obituary for Mary Rogers, interment was stated as Mountain View Cemetery ???
Sandra
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The San Francisco Examiner San Francisco, California 27 Oct 1897, Wed Page 10
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48515878/mrs-rogers-sues-for-divorce-27/
Sandra
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Residence 1902/1903 - 11 Lexington Avenue San Francisco, California - Joseph Howe Rogers - born 1848 - aged 54 years. Blacksmith.
Residence 1901 - 2311 Mission San Francisco - Joseph Rogers - Shipsmith - I Burns.
Sandra
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Is this a possible California Death Record to check out - - Joseph Rogers
Birth Year abt 1849 - Death Date 17 Jan 1920 - Age at Death 71
Death Place San Francisco, California.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSM-CVQD
or this one
Joseph Rogers - Birth Year: abt 1850 - Death Date 19 May 1921 San Francisco
Age at Death 71
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKSM-CVQN
Sandra
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The first Joseph in particular is a good bet.
On that question of the cemetery where Mary E. Rogers was interred, that notice does indeed say Mountain View, but the Funeral Notice from the paper of a couple of days later - which mentions the Funeral Director and appears on the day of the Funeral - say Evergreen Cemetery. So I am leaning towards it being Evergreen, but Mountain View is still definitely a possibility. I'll see what the Evergreen Cemetery authorities come back to me with. There is no Find a Grave listing for her at either, but I am confident she will have been interred in one or the other.
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Strange - Alameda Daily Argus Alameda, California 4 Aug 1906, Sat Page 5
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/48524520/mary-e-rogers-4-august-1906/
Sandra