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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Jeans Girl on Monday 13 April 20 03:20 BST (UK)

Title: Andersons
Post by: Jeans Girl on Monday 13 April 20 03:20 BST (UK)
Hello All,
Iam  looking for connections to or any information about the following.

Walter Anderson b 1872 Pleasant Creek Victoria Australia
James Anderson b  1873 Pleasant Creek Victoria Australia

Their parents were James Anderson b 1838 Scotland d 1883 Dimboola Victoria
and Margaret Wingate b 1848 Scotland d 1882 Dimbool Victoria
I have searched but not been able to find what became of the children.
Your help would be much appreciated
Thank You
Margaret in New Zealand
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: warncoort on Monday 13 April 20 04:06 BST (UK)
This would be the place to start.
https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: Jeans Girl on Monday 13 April 20 04:13 BST (UK)
Thank You I have already searched the site but not found them
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: judb on Monday 13 April 20 05:54 BST (UK)
You have probably thought of this already.

As the boys were so young when James and Margaret died, and were obviously cared for by others, family or not, it's quite possible they took on the surname/s of the people who took care of them.  Do you know of any relatives they may have had?

Judith
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: Jeans Girl on Monday 13 April 20 05:59 BST (UK)
yes i had thought of that and checked all the Wingate familys but nothing .
James had a sister Jane but not with her either

Margaret
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: wivenhoe on Monday 13 April 20 06:24 BST (UK)

1882 / 1202 BDM VIC death
ANDERSON Margaret  parents Margaret UNKNOWN /  Walter Wingate
died Dimboola  age 33 spouse ANDERSON, James

Can you clarify please - Walter, b. 1872,  and James, b. 1873, are the only children born to James ANDERSON and Margaret WINGATE..........no other children?

Who is the informant on the death certificate for James ANDERSON, d. 1883?

What was the cause of death for Margaret ANDERSON, d. 1882?

What was the cause of death for James ANDERSON, d. 1883?

Where are they buried?
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: judb on Monday 13 April 20 07:03 BST (UK)
They are both buried at Dimboola, in the old section.  Section K, plot 108.

http://www.australiancemeteries.com.au/vic/hindmarsh/dimboola_2011.htm

Judith
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 13 April 20 07:17 BST (UK)
They are both buried at Dimboola, in the old section.  Section K, plot 108.

http://www.australiancemeteries.com.au/vic/hindmarsh/dimboola_2011.htm

Judith

‘They’ being the folks and not the two boys.

Did the sons have middle names?

Jamjar
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: Jeans Girl on Monday 13 April 20 07:20 BST (UK)
James died from an overdose of medicine have the coroners report he drank the whole bottle thinking it was alcohol. there was only the two children and dont know what margaret died of.
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 13 April 20 07:21 BST (UK)
A marriage?:

5703/1897 ANDERSON Walt, HALL Emily

Jamjar
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: Jeans Girl on Monday 13 April 20 07:21 BST (UK)
The boys only had the one name no middle name on birth records.
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: Jeans Girl on Monday 13 April 20 07:23 BST (UK)
hoping to get parents names with records to confirm correct ones
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: TreeSpirit on Monday 13 April 20 07:44 BST (UK)
What is mentioned about them in their parents' death certificates?
i.e. were the boys still alive in 1882/3?
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: judb on Monday 13 April 20 07:46 BST (UK)
Sorry  - was replying to wivenhoe.  As far as I can see it's only the parents who are buried at Dimboola.

1883 was a sad year for the family as I see Walter WINGATE, Margaret's father died 17 April, 1883.  His will is on PROV and he left his watch to his grandson nephew Walter, 'as an heirloom to be kept sacred in memory of his grandfather.'
Edit to add - my mistake - see below

PROV shows that James ANDERSON died intestate but the record of where/how his estate was administered is not digitised.  It can, apparently, be ordered and I wonder if this document might have information re the sons.

Judith
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: Jeans Girl on Monday 13 April 20 08:00 BST (UK)
yes i have that information but have not got the full report as its not digitised
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: Jeans Girl on Monday 13 April 20 08:28 BST (UK)
from the information re the watch the children must have still been alive in 1883
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: TreeSpirit on Monday 13 April 20 10:57 BST (UK)
from the information re the watch the children must have still been alive in 1883

I have to disagree ...
1 - James Anderson is not mentioned at all in grandfather Walter Wingate's will.
2 - An assumption is made that grandson Walter Wingate = Walter Anderson. I might have accepted that if there were no other grandchildren called Walter. However, it seems that Gabriel Wingate had a son called Walter Gilmour Wingate b 1867 in New Zealand.

So I have to repeat my question .. what is mentioned in the death certificates of James and Margaret Anderson ...
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: judb on Monday 13 April 20 12:24 BST (UK)
Huge apologies - I have incorrectly transcribed the will of James WINGATE, died 1883.

The actual will shows bequests of all of his mining shares and money to his three sons: James, John and Andrew WINGATE minus 10 pounds to be given to Mrs Knox of Clunes as a token for her kindness.  Then the Will states
"And to my nephew Walter WINGATE, I present my watch as a (sic) heirloom to be kept sacred in memory of his grandfather."

He appoints another son, Gabriel WINGATE as the executor - Gabriel is not mentioned in the bequests.

Thus the Walter WINGATE, nephew,  who is given the watch is possibly be the son of one of the brothers of the Walter WINGATE the author of the will unless he was confused at the time of writing.  The will was dated 19 March 1893 and he died 17 April 1883.

https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/wills-and-probates

Judith
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: TreeSpirit on Monday 13 April 20 12:35 BST (UK)
It doesn't change the story re the Anderson boys, but there is a second probate document in which Gabriel Wingate states:
Walter Wingate stated in the will of the deceased to be his nephew, is his grandson. The deceased had no nephew
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: wivenhoe on Monday 13 April 20 12:55 BST (UK)

Margaret WINGATE married 1871, had child 1872, child born 1873...died 1882.

You need to see a death certificate for Margaret and for James.

It could be that there were only two children born early in their marriage, then no more children. If Margaret died from a chronic illness the sons might have been in care of others for years before her death. 
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: Jeans Girl on Monday 13 April 20 22:47 BST (UK)
I Have an article from The Horsham Times Victoria 1882-1954 dated Friday March 1883.
It gives the outline of the death of James Anderson and states that he has left two small children.
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: Jeans Girl on Monday 13 April 20 23:08 BST (UK)
Hi Tree Spirit,
Thank You for your input.
Have posted a newspaper  article date etc which states that James left two small boys when he died.
Margaret
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: judb on Tuesday 14 April 20 02:29 BST (UK)
Here's the link to the newspaper article:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/72872879

Judith
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: Jeans Girl on Tuesday 14 April 20 03:33 BST (UK)
Thank you judith  ihave a copy of the article
Margaret
I have also checked out a marriage for a walt anderson and emily hall that was mentioned but it is not the family im looking for

Thank you
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: majm on Tuesday 14 April 20 04:40 BST (UK)
Hi,

Do you have the Vic BDM images of the death registrations .... Vic BDM d.c. are downloaded directly, and are very detailed, even more detailed than NZ printouts.  The informant should be named, it could be someone from Coroners office, or it could be a hospital attendant OR it could be the person who took in those two children ..   


1882 / 1202 BDM VIC death
ANDERSON Margaret  parents Margaret UNKNOWN /  Walter Wingate
died Dimboola  age 33 spouse ANDERSON, James

Can you clarify please - Walter, b. 1872,  and James, b. 1873, are the only children born to James ANDERSON and Margaret WINGATE..........no other children?

Who is the informant on the death certificate for James ANDERSON, d. 1883?

What was the cause of death for Margaret ANDERSON, d. 1882?  ..... ....

Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: Jeans Girl on Tuesday 14 April 20 05:09 BST (UK)
I do not have the death certs i dont have the means to purchace on line ,
From the report in newspaper it states two small boys left
Or are the certs free to get?
Margaret
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: judb on Tuesday 14 April 20 05:18 BST (UK)
Hi Margaret

I've sent you a PM  :)  Judith
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: judb on Tuesday 14 April 20 06:05 BST (UK)
Not much useful information on that certificate.

When and where died: 24 March 1883, Dimboola,
Name: James Anderson
Male, 43 years, carpenter

Cause of death:  Alcoholism coma
Duration of illness: one day
Medical attendant by whom certified and when he last saw deceased: Dr Bertram?, 24 March

Name and surname of parents (if known) including mother's maiden surname  - unknown     

Signature, description and address of the person who gave the information:
Walter Anderson, schoolboy, Dimboola

Signature of deputy registrar, date and where registered: Dennis Cahill, 26 March 1883, Dimboola

When and where buried: 24 March 1883 at Dimboola, Undertaker: J Papley?
Name and religion of Minister, or names of witnesses of burial:
P Coyne, A Tarran? the word 'witnesses' is written in this column - perhaps there was no religious minister

Place of birth of the deceased and how long he or she resided in the Australian colonies or states Edinburgh, Scotland.  Not known how long in colony.

Name of spouse, Margaret Wingate
Place of marriage: unknown
Age at marriage; unknown

Names and ages of children of the deceased.
Walter, 11 years; James 9 years and seven months.

Oh my, how awful- his 11 year old son is the informant here. 

This gives us a couple of names that may be useful - the witnesses to the burial - P Coyne and A or R Tarran?.  These may be just staff for the undertaker.

Such a sad story for this little family.

Judith
Title: Re: Andersons
Post by: majm on Tuesday 14 April 20 06:25 BST (UK)
So sad. 

ADD
the brave lad knew his mum's maiden name ...

JM