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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Skoosh on Wednesday 15 April 20 13:26 BST (UK)
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This, dating from the 1870's appears elsewhere under Old Country Houses. Not all of these are in Lanarkshire as was Glasgow itself, many are also absent,
www.glasgowwestaddress.co.uk/Old_Country_Houses/Contents.htm
Skoosh.
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Excellent thanks Skoosh. Those houses are wonderful!
I've just had a quick browse and bookmarked it so I can go through it properly later.
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Thats fantastic Skoosh plenty for me to pursue that are/or where local to me and my area's of interest thanks very much................
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Fascinating - Possil had changed a little by the time I went to school there.
Imber
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Cheers guys, I've got as far as Bedlay Castle so far. Never found any relatives but! ;D
Skoosh.
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Thanks for posting , most interesting. I was interested in several places but have copied and pasted a passage about Ingram Street, Glasgow, (Cow Lane) which I'm practically sure describes most ancient walled towns before they were overwhelmed by industry
"In Barrie's day the latter of these lones was a mere drove road, uncausewayed, for driving out the cows of the citizens in the High Street district to be pastured about Cowcaddens, under charge of the town-herd, who blew a horn as he came slowly down from his abode in Rottenrow, in the morning, to warn the burghers to turn out their bestial, and in the evening returned with the animals by the same route, and with the same musical performance. Moreover, the Lone was a favourite place for milking cows; and servants and children were sent there with jugs, as in a country district, for warm milk. Boys, also, bent on a different mission, resorted to the Lone for "mauks," or bait, for fishing, the place being famous on that account. This continued till the Lone was causewayed, improved, and named Ingram Street, circa 1781.¬"
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Thank you for posting this. Sadly no upstairs connections but an aunt of my late mother-in-law was a cook at Aitkenhead House and her husband worked as a coachman. isk
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isk, think there were more folk in service back in the day, than miners?
Rena, just got to Belvedere House where a Crum gets a mention! Cathkin house also has Crum connections!
mauks=maggots.
Skoosh.
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Rena, just got to Belvedere House where a Crum gets a mention! mauks=maggots.
Skoosh.
Thanks Skoosh - as usual it's the "rich branch". I did once try to trace the ancestry of the John Crum who started one of the rich branches (= Thornliebank). I might have been able to if he and Elizabeth his wife had had two daughters, but unfortunately they didn't. All I have is a family story given to one of my cousins by his mother who was clearing out his late father's belongings. She handed him an old magazine depicting Thornliebank and told him that he was from "Crumland". I once saw an online photo of a man who was the spitting image of my grandfather, the chap had the surname of "Crum Ewing Crum Ewing Crum " (haha) and history shows that a couple of hundred years ago in Dunbartonshire a Robert Crum married a daughter of a farmer with surname Ewing.
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Rena, I'm more familiar with Crumm's as the shop on the High Street/George street, that fixed Hoovers! ;D
Skoosh.
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Rena, I'm more familiar with Crumm's as the shop on the High Street/George street, that fixed Hoovers! ;D
Skoosh.
A couple of decades ago I travelled back home for a school reunion. One woman remembered me from our first day at school when I introduced myself to the teacher as "Rena Crum without the 'b'". Roll forward a few decades and I find that when my ancestors moved along the Clyde to Dunbartonshire, they did have a "b" in the Dunbartonshire old parish baptism records :-)
. and when I eventually found sibling Robert and his family in Ayrshire - they were the "Crumbie" family.
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I have an m too many Rena! ;D
Skoosh.
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I have an m too many Rena! ;D
Skoosh.
I made a mistake when I thought all surnames with the stem "Crum" arrived on the West Coast via Dunbartonshire, as I've found a really early surname with the double "mm". It's in the Fifeshire Parish record in the 1500s and is the surname "Crummities". Could the spelling reflect the Fife dialect for people who originated in Cromartie ( = Ross & Cromarty)
My understanding of the word "Crum"/"Krum" (the latter found as a place name in Saxon Germay) is a farm/field where the river bends "Crum" = "crooked" and "Crumbie" is the Viking ending of "bie"/"by" for farm. Lots of places in Viking Yorkshire with "by" as the ending.
There's usually a few more letters after a double letter =
fun - funny. I suspect your Crumm or the padre changed the spelling for some reason. - maybe the early ancestor made a better living than his siblings/father and changed the surname as a visible sign, or couldn't be bothered to write the full spelling lol :D.
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Please don't read any significance into spelling. 'Correct' spelling is a relatively recent concept, dating from the end of the 19th century. Some clerks would write Crum, and others would write Crumm.
G F Black's The Surnames of Scotland says that Crum and Crumb, derived from Macilchrum, were common in Dumbarton in the 17th and 18th centuries, and that Crumme or Crummy may have been from lands belonging to the Abbey of Culross.
He also refers to Crom, Crome, Cromy, Crum, Cromb and Croume, mostly in Aberdeenshire, and to Crombie, from the place in the parish of Auchterless.
John Milne's Celtic Place Names of Aberdeenshire says that Crombie is derived from Gaelic crom meaning bent or crooked, but he does not say anything about the suffix -bie.
Black also says that MacIlchrum is from Mac Gille chruim (this is unidiomatic in Gaelic and should read Mac a'ghille chruim) which means 'son of the bent lad'. There was a family of Macdonalds who were in Benderloch for 300 years known as Clann-a-Chruim, but he does not cite any references to the name without the M(a)c- prefix.
There is no shortage of place names containing the Gaelic element crom, so there is no need to look to Saxony for its origin.
In my tree I have a John Crum married to Marion Meiklan Waddell. Two of their sons married daughters of Campbell Paterson, who invented Camp Coffee. Also an Erskine Crum who married a relative of mine.
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There are Crummie's, Crumley''s and McCrum's buried in Cambusnethan cemetery in Wishaw (darkest Lanarkshire).
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I was a bit disappointed that the list doesn't include some houses I would have been interested in, for example Stonefield. Is there another volume, perhaps, with a different selection of houses?
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There are two editions FF but I think that site covers both? the houses hereabouts are also absent. The subscribers to both editions are listed at the end, maybe they had to pay a fee to have their properties included & this covered the cost of publication. "No dough-no show!"
Another site here on the sugar aristocracy who took over when the tobacco lords companies hit the buffers at the American Revolution,
https://glasgowwestindies.wordpress.com/2018/11/24/the-old-country-houses-of-the-glasgow-sugar-aristocracy/
Skoosh.
The Heathery Bar Lodger, just the wanst! An urchin booted the bar door & shouted in "Bangla Deesh ya bas! ;D So not yesterday!
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The Heathery Bar Lodger, just the wanst! An urchin booted the bar door & shouted in "Bangla Deesh ya bas! ;D So not yesterday.
Showing your age now Skoosh, the Heathery is long gone. I think it's been converted into houses.
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Please don't read any significance into spelling. 'Correct' spelling is a relatively recent concept, dating from the end of the 19th century. Some clerks would write Cum, and others would write Crumm.
Oh but I do. In the days when a cash receipt from a shop had to record the name of the purchaser my mother would answer the enquiry as to her name with; "Mrs Crum".
Those who have, shall we say, uncommon surnames will know there are different reactions.
1) The very polite assistant/clerk who, using a BBC voice, will pronounce any vowel, Crimm, Cramm, Crom, but not a "u" as in "Crum"
2) Then there's the individual who thinks; I know what I heard but it can't be "Crum" so I'll scrawl an illegible surname
I do accept that during an age when not everyone had been given a bible from which it was expected they could learn to read, there were deviations - such as my Halliday Shearen family from Norfolk who travelled down to Cambridgeshire, where the strong dialect in 1851 translated the surname to Sharring.
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Please don't read any significance into spelling. 'Correct' spelling is a relatively recent concept, dating from the end of the 19th century. Some clerks would write Crum, and others would write Crumm.
Oh but I do.
I doubt if your memory goes back as far as the end of the 19th century.
If you imagine that different spellings before then had any significance at all, then you will succeed only in making your research more difficult.
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Please don't read any significance into spelling. 'Correct' spelling is a relatively recent concept, dating from the end of the 19th century. Some clerks would write Crum, and others would write Crumm.
Oh but I do.
I doubt if your memory goes back as far as the end of the 19th century.
If you imagine that different spellings before then had any significance at all, then you will succeed only in making your research more difficult.
I acccept; and I doubt any of us in this day and age will know the exact thoughts of anyone, especially of earlier generations who lived prior to our arrival on earth.