RootsChat.Com

Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: c-side on Sunday 26 April 20 00:20 BST (UK)

Title: Where might this be?
Post by: c-side on Sunday 26 April 20 00:20 BST (UK)
This place of birth is taken from the 1861 census in Amble, Northumberland for Janet Richardson (nee Scott).  Ancestry have transcribed it as Briglands, FindMyPast have made no attempt at all and Iím struggling to find any location which might fit.

Does anyone have any idea, please?

Christine


Title: Re: Where might this be?
Post by: Ian Nelson on Sunday 26 April 20 01:07 BST (UK)
possibly Balfron, Stirlingshire, Scotland, badly spelt phonetically ???
see here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPLW-ZPF2
Title: Re: Where might this be?
Post by: GR2 on Sunday 26 April 20 01:18 BST (UK)
It does rather look like Briglands.
Title: Re: Where might this be?
Post by: Annette7 on Sunday 26 April 20 02:42 BST (UK)
There's a listed 18C house called Briglands which is in Fossoway, Perth and Kinross.  May have been an estate there and that was where Janet was born.

Annette
Title: Re: Where might this be?
Post by: Ruskie on Sunday 26 April 20 03:11 BST (UK)
Do you know whereabouts in Scotland Janetís husband or older children were born? (in case the couple both came from the same area)

Where did Janet and James marry? (in case they married in the brideís parish)

Any answers may give you a place to start to search, though I am sure you have probably considered all of the above suggestions.

I think the place name is written as Briglands, but may be the enumeratorís interpretation.
Title: Re: Where might this be?
Post by: Ruskie on Sunday 26 April 20 03:24 BST (UK)
Depending on how it was pronounced, there is this variation (and fairly close to Northumberland):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgelands

https://maps.nls.uk/view/75674497
Title: Re: Where might this be?
Post by: Craclyn on Sunday 26 April 20 09:03 BST (UK)
I would agree that it says Scotland Briglands. I would start looking for her in Kinross.
 https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search/results?st=Briglands (https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search/results?st=Briglands)
Title: Re: Where might this be?
Post by: Craclyn on Sunday 26 April 20 09:15 BST (UK)
Check out Scotlandspeople. They have a couple of Janet Scotts born in Fife around the right timeframe. One of them about 12 miles from Briglands.
Title: Re: Where might this be?
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 26 April 20 10:15 BST (UK)
There are no records of baptisms of any Scotts at all at any time in the parish of Fossoway, and since the greatest dimension of the parish of Fossoway is 11 miles, anywhere 12 miles from Briglands could not be in Fossoway.

There's also a Bridgelands or Briglands in Selkirkshire and a Brigland in the parish of Mauchline, Ayrshire.

James Richardson and Janet Scott had
Janet, baptised 23 February 1823, Ednam (Roxburghshire)
Robert, baptised 26 August 1829, Edinburgh St Cuthberts
John Sinclair, baptised 6 July 1831, Edinburgh St Cuthberts
Helen, born 15 January 1834, Edinburgh
Isabella, born 6 June 1836, Edinburgh
Mary Ann, born 8 May 1838, Edinburgh

Title: Re: Where might this be?
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 26 April 20 10:50 BST (UK)
Could this be it:

https://ncap.org.uk/frame/8-1-3-1-12-108

Carol
Title: Re: Where might this be?
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 26 April 20 11:04 BST (UK)
That is indeed Briglands in the parish of Fossoway.
See also this map http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NT0299 and
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=56.17929&lon=-3.57311&layers=6&b=1

Whether this Briglands is or in not the correct place is open to question.
There are also http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NT4830 and
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NS5128
Title: Re: Where might this be?
Post by: c-side on Sunday 26 April 20 12:21 BST (UK)
I have followed these people from their daughter Mary Ann who consistently gives her place of birth as Edinburgh and names her father as James when she married.

There are 4 potential siblings in Edinburgh (names provided by Forfarian), two of whom died there in infancy, so I can place them in that area between 1829 and 1838.  Before 1829 there does not seem to be any sign of them there but James was an Ag Lab so probably moved around a lot.  I havenít been able to link Janet born Ednam 1823 to them yet but she is on my list.

James died in 1856 and is buried in Warkworth, Northumberland.

The family were in England by 1841 so most census records simply give Scotland as place of birth.  This clue on the 1861 for Janet is the only possible lead I have.

Also this is not my family.  I am researching for a friend who can no longer see well enough to do her own research.  We met on a genealogy course about 20 years ago when online research was very limited so this part of her family was left unexplored.  I am trying not to play fast and loose with her cash so am hoping to be reasonably certain before I use up SP credits.

Thank you all for your suggestions and guidance.  I will now follow them  up and see where they lead.

Christine
Title: Re: Where might this be?
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 26 April 20 13:08 BST (UK)
This may be a fairly wild long shot, but in the Wikipedia article on Bridgelands found by Ruskie (Reply #4 above), it says that the wife of Sir Henry Raeburn was from Bridgelands, Selkirk.

She was Ann Edgar, daughter of daughter of Peter Edgar of Bridgelands, and widow of James Leslie of Deanhaugh.

Here's the long shot, or maybe it's just a weird coincidence. Sir William Slater Brown (1845-1917), Lord Provost of Edinburgh, was the son of Henry Raeburn Brown (1806/7-1852) who lived in Stockbridge. I assume that Henry was named after Sir Henry Raeburn, who also lived in Stockbridge at that time.

After a lot of research, I still haven't found a baptism of Henry Raeburn Brown, but I think his parents may have been James Brown and Janet Richardson. Also that the family may have had connections to Duns, because one article about Sir William said that he was born in Duns.

Title: Re: Where might this be?
Post by: c-side on Sunday 26 April 20 14:34 BST (UK)
Never underestimate a long shot  ;D

It looks like I'm going to be busy this evening

Title: Re: Where might this be?
Post by: Forfarian on Sunday 26 April 20 15:19 BST (UK)
This is a previous thread about Henry Raeburn Brown.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=319429.0

My reasoning about his parentage is a bit tortuous, but I'll try to explain.

From the 1841 census at Church Lane, Edinburgh St Stephen's 1841/685/1/143/12
Henry Brown        30 Tailor                      Midlothian
Janet Brown         70                              Scotland not Midlothian
Ann Willson          35                              Midlothian
Janet Willson       14                               Midlothian
Agnes Willson      12                               Scotland not Midlothian
George Willson   10                                Scotland not Midlothian

Ann Wilson was the daughter of James Brown, gamekeeper. She married George Wilson: 1826, 23rd January. George Wilson, Blacksmith, residing in No 3 Dean Street, Stockbridge and Ann Brown, residing in Allan Street, Stockbridge, both in this parish, daughter of James Brown, Gamekeeper there, have been three times proclaimed in order to marriage in the parish church of St Cuthbert's, and no objections have been offered. Married on the twenty-seventh current by the Reverend Dr David Dickson one of the ministers of this parish. [Edinburgh St Cuthbert's Parish Register]

George Wilson and Ann Brown had Janet, born 7 November 1826 in Edinburgh St Cuthbert's, and George, baptised 10 April 1831 in Dysart, Fife.

I haven't found a baptism for Ann Brown, but there is a baptism of Robert Brown: 1808. Born March 7. James Brown Grange Gardens and Janet Richardson his spouse A Son Robert, Baptised April 19. Witnesses Family. [Register of Baptisms James Place Edinburgh]

Henry Raeburn Brown married in 1843: 2d January 1843. Henry Raeburn Brown Tailor residing in no 10 Church Street Stockbridge and Helen Clyde residing in same place both in this parish, daughter of James Clyde coachman residing in Rose Street have been three several times duly and regularly proclaimed in order to marriage in the parish church of St Cuthberts and no objections offered. Married this day by the Reverend John Bruce, one of the Ministers of the parish of St Andrews Edinburgh. [Edinburgh St Cuthberts Register of Marriages]

Henry's children were James, William Slater, Helen, Janet Richardson, Henry and John.

So putting it all together it seems to me likely that James Brown, gamekeeper, and Janet Richardson must have been the parents of Henry Raeburn Brown, tailor; Ann Brown or Wilson; and Robert Brown. However Henry died before the start of civil registration and I have not found the deaths of either Ann or Robert.