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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: rlw254 on Friday 01 May 20 09:48 BST (UK)
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Hello, I have never done research in Australia before but I am looking into a couple that appears multiple times in my DNA matches. It seems nobody has taken the husband's tree out very far and I can see why since I'm having some difficulty finding anything concrete.
Frank Banks born 7 Nov 1899 allegedly in Western Australia or Newcastle, NSW, parents William Banks and Mary Ann unknown maiden name. Frank married Molly Spinks in 1922 but I believe the DNA match is specifically through the Banks side so I am not as interested in Spinks. It looks like Frank had a sister Ivy born in 1902 but I currently know very little else. There are a couple instances of people with his parents' names dying in Newcastle but without an idea of their birth dates I can't be sure.
It is possible that Mary Ann remarried in 1909 to William Whitham in Newcastle.
Thanks for any help.
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Hi
The Info on a NSW bdm marriage rego is quite detailed and includes their ages, occupations, places of birth etc AND details about their parents including maiden names of their mums.
Their marriage indexed NSWBDM, #16350/1922, registered Newcastle district. Unless you want their autographs, consider obtaining an official transcription, same info, cost less and the clergy's handwriting is already sorted.
JM
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Death of son 1/08/1929
15842/1929 Frank BANKS; Father-Frank; Mother-Mollie; Newcastle
Funeral notice: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/134500463
Thanks: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/134480840
Sandgate Cemetery: https://nmclm.com.au/sandgate/find-a-loved-one/
Date of Service 02/08/1929 Location: ANGLICAN No. 2, 142, ANGLICAN No. 2-142-34
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Divorce papers Molly Banks - Frank Banks
NRS-13495-20-185-1138/1950
https://records-primo.hosted.exlibrisgroup.com/primo-explore/search?query=any,contains,“Frank%20Banks”&tab=default_tab&vid=61SRA&offset=0
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Death: 12/09/1973
81911/1973 Frank BANKS; William; Mary Ann; Newcastle
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Death: 2/04/1959
14312/1959 Molly BANKS; William; Emily Rose; Kurri Kurri
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Death of daughter 19/05/1932
7237/1932 Doreen BANKS; Frank; Molly; Newcastle
Funeral notice: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/136587168
Sandgate Cemetery: https://nmclm.com.au/sandgate/find-a-loved-one/
Date of service 20/05/1932 Location: ANGLICAN No. 2, 117, ANGLICAN No. 2-117-50
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Frank possibly remarried
27187/1951 Frank BANKS and E**** S******; Hamilton
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Thank you for all this info. As I said I am not too familiar with the resources available for Australian research. Specifically I am looking for more information about Frank's parents rather than Frank himself as to find how I am related to these DNA matches I will have to trace Frank's tree back more. Is there any info regarding his parents in these registries?
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Frank's mother's maiden name should be on Frank's NSW marriage registration, as per reply # 1 :)
.....Specifically I am looking for more information about Frank's parents rather than Frank ..... Is there any info regarding his parents in these registries?
JM
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Mothers death 28/12/1922
16431/1922 Mary A. BANKS; Joseph; Margaret; Merewether
Funeral notice: (4 Mary St Merewether) https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/163201394
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/140020214 Names children including Misses Ivy and Freeda (incorrectly state 4 Mary St Glebe)
In Memoriam https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139611874
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139354723
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Mothers death 28/12/1922
16431/1922 Mary A. BANKS; Joseph; Margaret; Merewether
Funeral notice: (4 Mary St Merewether) https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/163201394
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/140020214 Names children including Misses Ivy and Freeda (incorrectly state 4 Mary St Glebe)
In Memoriam https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139611874
:) :) Mary St, Glebe would be fine, :) locals reading the announcement when it was first published would not have confused it with any other locality in NSW that was also known as Glebe or The Glebe. :) :) :)
JM
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Death 2/12/1945
23231/1945 William BANKS; Lawrence; Sarah; Belmont
Funeral notice: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/134358190
In Memoriam: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/133173803
Sandgate Cemetery: William BANKS Date of service 03/12/1945 Location ANGLICAN No. 1, 81, ANGLICAN No. 1-81-111
Adding: Mary Ann BANKS Date of Service 30/12/1922 ANGLICAN No. 1, 81, ANGLICAN No. 1-81-113
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Probate Packet should contain more information, often death certificate, etc.
https://records-primo.hosted.exlibrisgroup.com/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/ADLIB_RNSW112475496
William Banks - Date of Death 02/12/1945, Granted on 20/02/1946
NRS-13660-26-7025-Series 4_310393
Archives are closed to the public due to covid but can order a copy online for a fee $32.30
You could put a request for Ros to kindly copy file when Archives reopen
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=703011.msg6937108#new
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NSW marriage: 10714/1923 Ivy B. L. BANKS and Daniel J. GARRED; Merewether
Death: 9/06/1981 103674/1981 Ivy Brenda Lulu GARRED; William; Mary
Death: 20/03/1985 102359/1985 Daniel John GARRED; Edward; Alice
Adding: Administration of Estate of Ivy Brenda Lulu GARRED
SMH 7 June 1985 Page 28 (1st Column) http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pen/
SMH 16 April 16, 1985 Page 35 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pem/ (4th column from left, 6th notice down)
Adding: Probate notice for Daniel John GARRED deceased (retired Truck Driver) SMH 10 April 1985 Page 34
Distribution of Estate SMH 29 May 1985 Page 39
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Marriage: 13920/1937 Freda Sarah BANKS and John James Lachlan STEVENS; Merewether
Death: 2700/1959 Freda Sarah STEVENS; William; Mary Ann; Newcastle
Funeral notice for John James Lachlan STEVENS https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/140310074
Probate Packet:
NRS-13660-38-15194-Series 4_493727 | Freda Sarah Stevens - Date of Death 24/01/1959, Granted on 13/07/1959
NRS-13660-28-8198-Series 4_332160 | John James Lachlan Stevens - Date of Death 18/07/1947, Granted on 04/11/1947
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Thank you, this has all been quite helpful. I had some preliminary data on Frank's siblings but not to this extent. I did not see a birth registration for Frank in the NSW database, I suppose this implies he was born in another area. It is also good to be able to link those death dates with the parents and children to solidify their dates. Now that it looks like William's parents are Lawrence and Sarah hopefully this will give me some new search ideas.
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Thank you, this has all been quite helpful. I had some preliminary data on Frank's siblings but not to this extent. I did not see a birth registration for Frank in the NSW database, I suppose this implies he was born in another area. It is also good to be able to link those death dates with the parents and children to solidify their dates. Now that it looks like William's parents are Lawrence and Sarah hopefully this will give me some new search ideas.
Frank's birth place should be noted on his marriage. See reply # 1
Hi
The Info on a NSW bdm marriage rego is quite detailed and includes their ages, occupations, places of birth etc AND details about their parents including maiden names of their mums.
Their marriage indexed NSWBDM, #16350/1922, registered Newcastle district. Unless you want their autographs, consider obtaining an official transcription, same info, cost less and the clergy's handwriting is already sorted.
JM
JM
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From RChat's NSW Resources Board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html :)
See also:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0 NSW Resources
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369921.0 WA Resources
https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history-research/family-history-search.aspx Scroll through to see confirmation of the Official Transcription Agents.
https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history-research/registry-records.aspx What to expect on civil registrations
https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Documents/doris-glover-marriage-certificate.pdf sample of a 1924 NSW marriage certificate ... May I assure you that the 1922 marriage for Frank will have similar headings to that 1924 one.
JM
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Your search might be further complicated by the offspring of a previous relationship for Mary Ann.
The Funeral notice (Rep #10) mentions sons R REMINGTON, J V REMINGTON and also Miss G REMINGTON.
The men were Robert and John Victor.
Robert was in NSW and married there. He appear on the Electoral Roll
5189/1923 REMINGTON Robert to ELLIOTT Catherine at TORONTO. There were children ADDING both before and after the marriage
Robert died 5015/1960 REMINGTON Robert Father -Robert mother Mary Annie At NEWCASTLE
John Victor is also on the Electoral Roll to 1949 in NSW and married to Mona Myer WHITE in 1923 (reg 1124)
Marriage notice
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139351433
He fought in both world wars and the index for ww2 sates he was born in 1896 in NSW
https://nominal-rolls.dva.gov.au/veteran?id=314954&c=WW2
Here is a photo of him in WW1
https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/229136260
Mary Anne was obviously in touch with this part of her family.Clip attached (typist's error in the initial for John)
As to the earlier part of Mary’s life and the father of these Remington children, there is a tree on Ancestry which gives her a birthplace of England. Not much further information
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Well a simple change of spelling reveals lot. ;)
Putting 2 M's in Remmington shows a few births and gives a mothers maiden name as BUTTERFIELD if it is the same couple.
Here is Robert's birth
Robert REMMINGTON
1889/30839 Merewether
Father Robert REMMINGTON
Mother Mary A
Here is John's birth
John V REMMINGTON
1894/20805. At Merewether
Father Robert REMMINGTON
Mother Mary A
Frank REMMINGTON
1898/2555 North Dandalup (WA)
Robert REMMINGTON
Mary Annie BUTTERFIELD
Mary A REMMINGTON
1891/21800 at Merewether
Robert REMMINGTON
Mary A
Alexander S REMMINGTON
1893/22326 at Merewether
Robert REMMINGTON,
Mary A
Richard REMMINGTON
1896/1699 at Perth
Robert REMMINGTON
Mary Anne BUTTERFIELD
Sue
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1871 census
Mary Ann BUTTERFIELD aged 4 born Lancashire lives with her grandmother Sarah BUTTERFIELD aged 75, her widowed mother Margaret BUTTERFIELD aged 34 and sister Sarah BUTTERFIELD aged 8. And another mamed Sarah CARR aged 32, also the daughter of Sarah senior.
Noteworthy that living next door with parents is one Edmund WRATHALL aged 20
In 1881
Mary Ann BUTTERFIELD lives with Edmund L WRATHALL aged 30 and she is listed as his step daughter. He is widowed. Also there is her 17 year old sister Sarah BUTTERFIELD and a child Margaret WRATHALL who is 4 and the daughter of Edmund WRATHALL.
Margaret BUTTERFIELD's history needs researching to see if her partner was Joseph to have Mary Ann in order to tie with the parental names on the NSW death certificate of Mary Ann BANKS.
Sue
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Regarding the birth of FRANK REMMINGTON in 1898 in WA, above, you may need to consider that this is FRANK BANKS.
Thus you may have a REMMINGTON paternal line, if I understand your DNA research correctly.
As mentioned
A certificate or two will confirm a lot or otherwise.
Sue
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Well found, Sue.
JM
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Margaret BUTTERFIELD married Edmund WRATHALL in dec qr 1873. She died in 1881.
Deaths Mar qr 1881
Margaret Wrathall, 45 reg Lunesdale Vol 8e, p533
Possible birth for their daughter
Sep qr 1876
Margaret Amy WRATHALL, reg Settle Vol 9a, p9
Margaret Ann (registered as Margaret Amy) WRATHALL I can see her up to 1901 when she is a nurse for the family of Richard SMITH in Lancaster. in 1891 she is with her sister Sarah (married to John HOYLE)
Judith
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Ah, here's Margaret Amy in 1911
She is married to William Henry WIGNALL, commercial traveller, living in Lancaster with a son William John WIGNALL, 7.
Sadly William is killed in France in 1917. There's lots more I see about William but he's not your blood relation so I won't continue.
Judith
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It is possible that Mary Ann remarried in 1909 to William Whitham in Newcastle.
NOW,
This lengthy article is very telling, though slightly confusing and requires a good read.
Revealed in essence-
Robert and Mary Ann REMMINGTON were not married.
She was Mrs BANKS by an English (Lancashire) marriage to John Robinson BANKS.
she met REMMINGTON in 1889
He was abusive
William WHITHAM was a 'boarder"
There was strong suggestion of 'relationship between Mary Ann and WHITHAM.
1901 Western Australia
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/161255862
Sounds like Wiiliam BANKS was not person but she was BANKS and he was William WHITHAM and so possibly some of the children were his ?? FRANK
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You lot are really doing a great job digging into this, thanks very much.
I was able to find a photocopy of Frank's second marriage license which gives his mother as Mary Ann Butterfield and birthplace of North Dandalup. Father is listed as William Banks.
It is interesting to see what types of resources Australia has for research since my normal ones are turning up very little.
This is turning into a very interesting story, it is becoming clear why people were having a hard time finding information about Frank.
I can reveal another bit about the DNA matches in question. They all cluster very well into a group of my matches that descend from some folks living in Northern Ireland, particularly around Castlederg. I expect to see someone Irish somewhere in Frank's tree. Robinson is a name found in the area (John Robinson Banks). However it sounds like he was out of the picture before their children were born.
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You lot are really doing a great job digging into this, thanks very much.
I was able to find a photocopy of Frank's second marriage license which gives his mother as Mary Ann Butterfield and birthplace of North Dandalup. Father is listed as William Banks.
It is interesting to see what types of resources Australia has for research since my normal ones are turning up very little.
This is turning into a very interesting story, it is becoming clear why people were having a hard time finding information about Frank.
Well I 'm pretty sure William BANKS did not exist.
So read William WHITHAM
Sue
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But the person in question must have used the name Banks if their funeral announcement uses "William Banks" and even provides the name of some of his children (see posts on first page). Quite confusing right now.
I see a christening for Georgianna Gwendoline Banks 26 Sept 1886 in Warton, Lancashire, to parents John Robinson Banks and mother Mary Annie. This seems like a likely candidate for "G Remington" from earlier.
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But the person in question must have used the name Banks if their funeral announcement uses "William Banks" and even provides the name of some of his children (see posts on first page). Quite confusing right now.
In 1871 census there is this family. It looks to me to be the man William WHITHAM.
His parents match William BANKS at death.
He was born in Lancashire and his father was a mechanic.
Lawrence Whitham 28
Sarah Whitham 28
William Whitham 9/12
Anne Whitham 3
Sue
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I see a christening for Georgianna Gwendoline Banks 26 Sept 1866 in Warton, Lancashire, to parents John Robinson Banks and mother Mary Annie. This seems like a likely candidate for "G Remington" from earlier.
I see 1886 ;D
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Oops, simple typo ;D
I just came across this Whitham couple from the census that you mentioned. What a messy web. Hopefully I can see something familiar in the trees of one of the three men.
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Yes very complex and unusual.
And then in 1909 Mary Ann BANKS and William WHITHAM marry at Newcastle (5474)
And then both continue as Mr and Mrs BANKS :o
Sue
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Not sure if this is the same person as the forenames are reversed - can't see any other records about her.
Electoral Rolls show
Gwendoline Georgina BANKS
1925 at 79 Lincoln St, North Perth. No occupation given
No-one else of that surname at that address
Can't see the baptism you mention?
Judith
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The timeline as I see it so far looks like this:
1856 : birth of Robert Remington in Ingleton, Yorkshire
1866 : birth of Mary Ann Butterfield and John Robinson Banks in Lancashire
1870 : birth of William Whitham in Lancashire
1885 : marriage of Mary Ann Butterfield and John Robinson Banks
1886 : birth of Gwendoline Banks in Lancashire
1886-1889 : John Robinson Banks and Mary Ann Butterfield separate and Mary Ann lives with Robert Remington in Australia. Until 1902 we can't be sure if any of the next batch of children are fathered by Robert Remington or William Whitham due to suspicion of infidelity.
1889 : birth of Robert Remington in Merewether
1891 : birth of Mary Remington in Merewether
1893 : birth of Alexander Remington in Merewether
1894 : birth of John Victor Remington in Merewether
1896 : birth of Richard Remington in Perth
1898 : birth of Frank Remington (Banks) in North Dandalup
1902 : birth of Ivy Banks in Merewether
1904 : birth of William Lawrence Banks in Merewether
1908 : birth of Sarah Freda Banks in Merewether
The last three are likely fathered by William Whitham who uses the name William Banks.
Hopefully this helps anybody who may see this in the future that's actually closely related to Frank!
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A man named W. WHITHAM arrived in Albany on Nov 10th 1894 as a passenger on the ship Orizaba.
No other info shown on the record.
Sue
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The Collie Miner 12 Oct 1901 p3
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/232561893?
.....REMINGTON......WITHAM.....BANKS
At 1901 children born after 1889 are to Robert REMINGTON
WA BDM birth
REMMINGTON Richard parents Robert /BUTTERFIELD Mary Anne @ Perth 1699 1896
REMMINGTON Frank parents Robert / BUTTERFIELD Mary Annie @ N Dandalup 2555 1898
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I have not been able to find the arrival of Robert REMMINGTON in Australia, if in fact he is the man cited as being born in 1856 Yorkshire.
It would be interesting to see whether Mary Ann Banks traveled with him.
Sue
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https://archive.sro.wa.gov.au/
William WITHAM, Labourer, Perth, nominating Sarah Elizabeth WITHAM of Lancashire.
Add to clipboard
AU WA S4650 cons553 Form 172 Item 1893-09-04 - 1893-09-11
Part of NOMINATED IMMIGRANTS - PAPERS
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Brilliant finds wivenhoe.
Thanks for the very helpful timeline rlw254 My brain is confused!!
Judith
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Not sure if this is the same person as the forenames are reversed - can't see any other records about her.
Electoral Rolls show
Gwendoline Georgina BANKS
1925 at 79 Lincoln St, North Perth. No occupation given
No-one else of that surname at that address
Can't see the baptism you mention?
Judith
There was death in 1926 in Perth at the Old Man's Home
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/255944604
It is possibly Robert though first name is not given.
I wonder if the daughter you may have spotted Judith, was visiting him in his late years.
Sue