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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: Essnell on Sunday 10 May 20 08:25 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am hoping to find the parish record for Peter Burton's Baptism/ Birth in about 1757.
I don't know who his parents are. Now I believe he married Margarett Ram on the 30th January 1773. This was in Letheringsett, Norfolk, England.
As far as I have found they had four children: John: Dob 1773, Ann Dob:1775, Robert [Steel]: Dob 1778 and William Dob 1781. The four children were baptised in Cromer, Holt, Norfolk, England and are all Church of England records.
Peter's birth may have been in Letheringsett. Margarett and Peter moved to Cromer, Holt, Norfolk in May 1773 after their Marriage. This is noted on their Parish Marriage Record.
Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
Essnell
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Hi Essnell
As you say Peter and Margaret married 30th January 1773.
Peter was from Cromer and Margaret from Letheringsett both single.
The note on the Parish Marriage Record says “Delivered in at Generals Holt May 1773” this does not imply that they moved, it is to do with the fact that every parish priest of the Church of England was supposed to make a copy of his parish register and send it to send to the archdeacon or bishop every year.
Though they did move as you say, their children were baptised as follows
John 8 May 1773 at Cromer
Ann 2 November 1775 at Cromer
Robert 6 June 1779 at Holt
William 24 Dec 1781 at Holt
I have found a possible burial for Margaret, 20 February 1831 aged 80 at Holt (birth about 1751), so Peter’s birth could be a bit earlier than 1757. but I cannot pin him down yet.
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Hi The Yokel,
Thank you for answering my post. And thank you for explaining exactly what that Extra bit meant.
I thought that they had moved to the Holt area but that bit was a little hard to read and it would not have made any sense as I am not clued up on the Church mechanisms. So I have gained in knowledge. So that means the Priest sent his copy to the Archdeacon or Bishop in May 1773.
I was looking into this part of my tree a number of years back and I have several options but then none actually linked this far back. Hence revisiting. I did have the three children John, Ann and Robert. I only found the baptism records for them in the last 24hours and also surprisingly William. All of which was good.
Now you have found info on Margaret so I shall see where that takes me. Thinking I might see if I can get her birth. If I do I shall post it here.
I am hoping that by finding Peter's birth it may help with something else.
Thanks again for your kind help.
Essnell
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Hi The Yokel,
I have looked up the Death record supplied for Margaret Burton in 1831 which I have been able to save.
I then also looked for a birth around the 1751 time frame and found this :
Baptism date 1753, Letheringsett, Norfolk, England. Parents : John Ram and Abigiel. There is no available image.[Edit: found baptism record Norfolk, England Church of England Baptisms. Norfolk, Letheringsett, 1653 - 1760]
The dates are close and the place exactly as on her Parish Marriage Record. I would say this is her.
No success with Peter Burton in the records. I did try with a wider year span from 1745 - 1760 also unsuccessfully. I have not yet looked for her parent's marriage.
Thanks again for looking and I hope more successfully than myself re Peter.
Essnell
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John Ram=Abigal Daniel 7 Nov 1752 Letheringsett
Here on Family Search
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pg1/
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There is this burial at Holt, 24 Feb 1806
Peter Burton, Son of Peter Burton and Martha his Wife late Martha Allen Spinster
aged 71 years a Pauper
On FreeReg, ancestry, etc. Should be on FamilySearch
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1811 Holt church rate has a Margarett Burton
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-D4JQ-V69?i=131&cat=999863
1803 Holt poor rate has a Peter Burton
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6969-4QD?cat=561823
Lots of parish chest material from Holt on FamilySearch
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Note a burial of a Peter Burton at Cromer, 5 Nov 1781, in case of any connection.
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burial at Holt, 24 Feb 1806
Peter Burton, Son of Peter Burton and Martha his Wife late Martha Allen Spinster
aged 71 years
Struggling with a Peter and Martha
BUT
There is a marriage of a Peter Burton and Elizabeth Allen, 7 May 1732, Blakeney.
Baptisms at Glandford to Peter and Elizabeth Burton, including
Peter, 14 Feb 1740/1
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939X-DTX2-V?i=1131&cc=1824688&cat=375795
Nearby pages, Elizabeth (Elizebeth) in 1735
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939X-DTXP-Q?i=1128&cc=1824688&cat=375795
Among others at Glandford, a baptism of a Martha is indexed to Peter and Elizabeth Burton in 1749
So, if born not long before that baptism, Peter's age would be a bit out on the Holt burial record. And I'm not sure at the moment if we have Glandford burials?
Against that, location is good, the mother being an Allen good. Martha as mother's name may be wrong? :-\
But an awful lot of checking to be done.
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Marriage at Holt, 14 Nov 1785
James Dunnit, Widower
+
Martha Burton, Spinster
Both of the parish. Martha marked, as did witness Margaret Burton
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DRPQ-WL5?i=44&cc=1416598&cat=517548
Could this be the Martha bap at Glandford in 1749?
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Hi to both of you.
Thankyou both for all the posts, very much appreciated and helpful.
the yokel: that marriage is really good I had Abigiel but no marriage so again more good info, thanks.
jonw65: You have got an awful lot of info here for me so I need to do a lot of followup work here. Just quickly I think this may be another section of the family.
So yes a lot of checking to be done.
I have to go out shortly so will come back after that and having had a good look at the posts info.
Thanks so very much for helping.
Essnell.
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We may have hit a problem
1803 Holt poor rate has a Peter Burton
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6969-4QD?cat=561823
Actually Peter & Robt. Rates dated 24 March 1803
Ditto 20 May 1803.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6969-C81?i=290&cat=561823
Also a William Burton (next image)
and same I think 20 Sep 1803
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6961-PQ?i=301&cat=561823
Now, 20 Dec 1803 :)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6969-92G?i=312&cat=561823
Arranged in similar order, but there are no Peter & Robt Burton?
Next image (314) sudden appearance of Margt Burton, widow.
But is it "our" Margaret?
Another complication may be that the Peter buried in 1806 was a pauper.
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There is this burial at Holt, 24 Feb 1806
Peter Burton, Son of Peter Burton and Martha his Wife late Martha Allen Spinster
aged 71 years a Pauper
I was wondering if this Peter (born C1735) is the one who married Mary Starling 29 Dec 1756 at Salthouse and as a widower, Ann Cotton 11 Feb 1760 also at Salthouse.
There is also a Peter son of Elizabeth Burton baptised 7 May at Sustead 7 May 1756.
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It could be. Though, whoever he was, if he was 71 then there is the problem of finding those parents of his.
And the Peter married to Margaret Ram must be buried somewhere.
As for the Holt rates records, I am inclined not to worry too much about them at the moment, as they might be misleading.
John
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Hi to you both again and thanks.
Jonw65....
1. I saw that Holt burial for Peter 1806's death which would , since he was 71, imdicate he was born 1725 approx. So he could be the father of Peter who married Margaret Ram, just by looking at date timeline. Something I had not thought of before.
2. Margaret was paying rates on a property in 1811. She died possibly in 1831. So that is 20 years later. So it is known where she was at that time. Not sure of the proprietors name ‘Plaxxx’ ?
3. I think that the Cromer burial 1781 for Peter may be that for Peter who married Margaret Ram thence Margaret Burton and she would probably be the Margaret above.
I am not sure here as this is the same year that their last known child, William, was born. That would make Margaret a young widow with 4 young children.
4. I cannot yet see where Peter and Martha fit in ....More thinking needed here.
5. Yes, the second Martha born 1749 Glanford sounds to be pretty good for the marriage to James Dunnit. Margaret Burton - connection - I don’t know.
Thanks for the new posts which are really interesting. I have been looking at these too.
The more I think about either of the deaths for Peter the less it makes sense.
I have got Margarett's death in 1831 Holt, Norfolk.
I am also wondering about Peter 1781 death as pauper. This family were dairy farmers so the story goes and I believe they had milk runs into outer London.
I am still not joining up any dots but there, as you say, has to be a burial for Peter somewhere.
thanks - I cannot do this alone.
Essnell
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Hi jonw65 and The Yokel
I have been looking at what John posted re records from Glanford, in particular the birth for Peter Burton 1740 to Peter Burton and Elizabeth Allen. Seeing that Peter and Elizabeth married in Blakeney, it is not that far from Glanford. The sister, Elizabeth 1735, also is good.
If this is "our" Peter he would be 33yrs old when he married Margaret Ram1773 and if he died in 1806 he would have been 66 and that says he was 71 so it is a bit a out. However this is most likely the birth record needed.
I have found a birth for a Martha Allin in Glanford 1713, 25th October. No parents noted. still no marriage for her to a Peter XXX.
what do you both think?
Essnell
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If this is "our" Peter he would be 33yrs old when he married Margaret Ram1773 and if he died in 1806 he would have been 66 and that says he was 71 so it is a bit a out. However this is most likely the birth record needed.
If it is this Peter it seems strange that his wife was not mentioned on the burial record.
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I think that the Cromer burial 1781 for Peter may be that for Peter who married Margaret Ram thence Margaret Burton and she would probably be the Margaret above.
I am not sure here as this is the same year that their last known child, William, was born. That would make Margaret a young widow with 4 young children.
There is a logic to the idea as there are no more children that we know of after 1781. William was baptized at Holt not long after the burial of Peter at Cromer, though I think there is nothing noted to suggest that Peter was deceased.
Nor anything to indicate that the Peter buried in Cromer might have been living in Holt.
So we don't know!
Can we be sure that the Margaret buried in Holt in 1831 is the right one? And if she is, does that mean she is the lady in the rates books earlier?
What happened to the four children of Peter and Margaret - especially re Holt, did they stay there?
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Hi the Yokel and jonw65,
Regarding the Peter who died in 1806 there is nothing that helps. It may well be he is some other sort of relative. I just am not at all sure.
I am also still working on Peter who died 1781.Nothing that adds anything though. Now about the 4 children of Peter Burton and Margaret Ram.
This is, as far as I can see all possible....
John Burton Dob 1773 Bapt. 8 May 1773 - Cromer, Norfolk, England.
Two possible Marriages:
1. December 1793 to Mary Ralph by Banns on 1 st, 8th, 13th.
Holt, Norfolk C of E Marriages and Banns 1754-1940. Holt 1754 - 1806.
There were no witnesses recorded.
2. February 1796 to Elizabeth Pentress 21st February. Plumstead by Holt
Witnesses James and Mary Goodwin.
There are two deaths
1. 1851 Plumstead by Holt Age 77 .... birth thus C 1774
2. 1839 10 February, Holt, Norfolk [need to see if there was a age stated]
Ann Burton Dob 1775, 21st November Cromer, Norfolk, England.
Possible Marriage by Banns: 1st January 1796 to John Jackson.
It looks like they actually had a church ceremony on the 6th April 1796.
Holt C of E Marriages and Banns
witnesses were John Richards and Charlotte Girdlestern. That could be "stein"
Robert Burton so far I only have a death for him in Billericay, Norfolk. 1854.
Dob 1778 /9 Bapt 6 th June, 1779 Holt, Norfolk, England. This part of the family gradually moved closer to London.
William is a recent find so not much on him he was born C 23rd Nov and Baptised 24th Nov 1781.
In Holt Norfolk England.
Still looking.
Not sure of anything else about him at this point.
Thanks for all your help and ideas.
Essnell
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The marriage of John Burton to Mary Ralph, 26 Dec 1793 at Holt
Witness were Jane Spence and Ann Burton
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ph3/
William Burton married Frances Lewis 10 Nov 1801 at Holt
Witnesses James Clarke and Ann Lewis
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ph4/
February 1796 to Elizabeth Pentress 21st February. Plumstead by Holt
Looks like Elizabeth Pentney
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Hi the Yokel and jonw65,
It has been quite a few days since posting here. I have been going over and through all the information supplied and I thank you both for all that you have placed here, It is very much appreciated.
I have some idea of what may have been but for now it is all just too uncertain as there are just too many loose ends.
However I do have some new information I didn't have before so that is progress.
Further, this has made me look more closely at the family of Robert Burton and Ann Gidney - Robert being the son of Peter Burton and Margaret Ram. I now have information about where they ended up in South Weald, Essex. I also need to follow up on Robert's three siblings, so a lot of work still to do.
I shall return at some point with an update on Peter's parents.
Thanks again, Essnell.