RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: doidy on Wednesday 13 May 20 18:02 BST (UK)
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I have reached a brick wall iro my gt aunt Amy Harrington & her husband Arthur Ernest Smith.
Amy Harrington born 10 May 1882 Tottenham Court Rd, MIddx, I have her in 1891 & 1901 census's.
In 1910 she travels with Arthur Ernest Smith born 31 May 1873, Bromley, Kent to Halifax, Nova Scotia. Amy is a "Dressmaker", Arthur a "Groom", the shipping record is almost impossible to read but it looks as though Arthur has been in Canada sometime before (maybe returning to England for Amy). Her intended occupation is "Housewife". on 17 Sept 1910 they marry in Halifax. On 25 Dec 1910 their son Arthur Ernest Smith is born. His dob comes from the 1939 Reg when the family are living in Croydon, Surrey.
I have no idea where Arthur jun was born, but it seems it could be Canada? In 1918 Arthur sen Attestation papers give the family living Halifax, N.S.
By 1939 the family are living in Croydon, Surrey.
I have a death for Amy in 1968, Croydon, Surrey. I would expect Arthur sen to also of died in this area sometime after 1939 but know it was well before Amy in 1968.
Arthur jun died in 1995, Surrey Mid Eastern presumably Croydon renamed?). I have failed to locate a marriage for him to "Evie"?
Any help, esp in Canada appreciated please.
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Surrey Mid Eastern covers places as per link
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/surrey%20mid%20eastern.html
Croydon reg district
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/croydon.html
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Thank you for that. I had assumed that & would anticipate Arthur sen's death to be Croydon as prob still called that? Prob Arthur jun's marriage to b Croydon to, as it was still called Croydon in 1968 and his marriage was pron 1940's? . Him & his wife "Evie" had a daughter but without maiden name I can't race her?
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Probate index for Arthur Ernest Smith has death as 20 February 1995 and his address as Old Wall Cottage, Old Reigate Road, Betchworth, Surrey
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Have you discounted this one
Deaths Mar qtr 1943
Arthur E Smith age 70
Croydon 2a 930
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Have you discounted this one
Deaths Mar qtr 1943
Arthur E Smith age 70
Croydon 2a 930
That looks like a good possibility. His Canada WW1 records, on page 19, indicate a death date of 2-1-43:
http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B9012-S004
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I have no idea where Arthur jun was born, but it seems it could be Canada?
You can see his birth registration at https://www.novascotiagenealogy.com/
which shows the parents as Arthur Edward Smith, soldier, and Amy Harrington. I can't direct link to it, but you just need to accept the terms, then enter his full name and search births.
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Thank you so much to everyone for your help. This site never ceases to amaze me, people are so kind and helpful. All the suggestions made are spot on.
Just need Arthur jun's marriage now?????? I can't view the probate, does it give a clue as to name of wife/daughter please?
Thank you Doidy
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Sorry Doidy, but the probate for Arthur Jr. is of no help. Unlike the older records which showed the executors, his is the newer version which don't name anyone other than the deceased.
On the '39, Junior was living with his parents, but is listed as married. Do you know when Evie was in the picture (based mainly on the age of their child?)
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Arthur juniors probate shows it as an administration not will, the estate was £30,338. The cost for a copy is £1.50 but will only show who applied to administer the estate.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pge/
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1923 passenger list, SS Antonia from Montreal to London
Amy Smith, 41, and Arthur Smith, 12
Proposed address Jubilee Cottage, Swanley, Kent
Doesn't say intend to stay permanently, but could it be them? :-\
Evie, a possible marriage?
Sep 1933, Willesden 3a 1052
Green, Evie
Smith, Arthur E.
She (Evie Louise Smith) is on the electoral registers before the war at 252 North Circular Road, Willesden. Not seen Mr Smith there with her.
There are Greens at that address, including Rose Green.
Evie Smith is in Willesden in the free index to the 1939 Register, born 1910. It may say she is married? There may be a son (Brian E)?
1963 electoral register
Nottingham Road, South Croydon
The Lodge
Smith, Arthur E.
Smith, Evie L.
Is the lodge to do with Whitgift School?
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Struggling at the moment with the death of this lady, Evie Smith.
Not sure of the correct birth either ;D
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Perhaps this birth
GREEN, EVA LOUIE
Mother's Maiden Surname: VALLANCE
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in HENDON Volume 03A Page 282
1898 Hackney
Charles William Green
+
Rose Elizabeth Vallance
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Free index to the 1939 Register has the Smiths living in Selsdon Road, Croydon
Croydon Advertiser,2 June 1939 and also story in the edition of 9 June :o
ASKED FOR AN ADJOURNMENT.—Whm(When?) Arthur Ernest Smith (29), unemployed, of Selsdon-road, South Croydon, was charged with using insulting words and behaviour,..........
OCR text!
Check original
9 June
EX-POLICE OFFICER ASSAULT CHARGE AGAINST SOUTH CROYDON MAN FAILS
A man who said he was an ex-police officer was charged on remand at the Croydon Borough Police Court on Monday with assaulting P.-s. Webb, and with using insulting words and behaviour whereby a breach of the peace might have been caused.
He was Arthur Ernest Smith (29), a salesman,. of Selsdon-road, South Croydon, who pleaded not guilty and was represented by Mr. A. Rawlence.
Webb said that at 1.5 a.m. on Sunday, May 28th, he was in Oakfield-road with P.-c. Hearnah(?) when he heard shouting and laughing from a person standing at the corner of Lennard-road. He went there and saw the defendant, another man and two girls. He asked them to be quiet and go away. They refused, and he asked a second time. The two women and the other man then went, but Smith said "I’ll go when I am ready. You mind your own damn business.” At the same time he struck witness with both his fists, causing the sergeant’s helmet to fall over his eyes.
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Hi Everyone.
Overwhelmed by your help. It is looking good.
Yes Arthur jun did work at Whitgift School, in a caretaker capacity.
That was Amy & Arthur returning to her parents in Kent.
That marriage Evie/Eva seems to fit, her being at her parents in 1939 would tie in with Arthur being with his parents. NOT happy abt a possible other child though???????????? My cousin hasn't heard mention of any other than the dau. I do know a christian name for the dau am I allowed to put that on here?
I LOVE the newspaper article, definitely our man, ties in with him supposedly being a salesman in 1939 Reg. Imagine his parents took him back in as unemployed, but wife had to go to her parents? Apparently his parents & wife didn't get on to well. Seems they might not of wanted to put that he was unemployed?
Wander why he wasn't called up? Maybe he was later????????
This has all been a mystery for years, so pleased with the progress you have all made & once again thank you. Doidy
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jonw65.
Please can you tell me what to put into 1939 Reg (Familysearch) to bring up Evie?
Thanks Doidy
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This looks like Arthur and Amy Smith in the 1921 census back in Nova Scotia, lines 35-37.....
http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1921&op=img&id=e002908390
PB
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It certainly is. Looks like Arthur sen went to Canada as a youngster (we don't have that record), stayed there poss until retired? In Croydon by 1939. Funny in 1939 he was working as a jobbing gardener when my cousin recalls the family having a substantive have and gt aunt Amy never being short of money? Maybe it's because my cousin's parents had a small house?
Thank you very much Doidy
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Probate index for Arthur Ernest Smith has death as 20 February 1995 and his address as Old Wall Cottage, Old Reigate Road, Betchworth, Surrey
It is a care home now
https://www.carehome.co.uk/carehome.cfm/searchazref/20001060OLDB
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According to Arthur Senior's CEF military file, he appears to have had quite a number of years in the military prior to signing up so perhaps he received some type of pension.
When Arthur arrived in Canada in 1910 he indicated he had been in Canada for 8 years which would give an arrival of about 1902. 1921 census has 1900. So he would have been close to age 30 when he arrived? I don't see an arrival for him in the records at the moment but not all records survive...and it sometimes depends on where one arrives.
PB
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Please can you tell me what to put into 1939 Reg (Familysearch) to bring up Evie?
Evie Smith, born 1910, living in Middlesex, will do the trick on ancestry.
Free index on findmypast, Evio Smith, b. 1910, in Willesden M.B.
Also ignore the transcribed address.
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Thank you for last couple of bits of info. Now found Evie in 1939, waiting for my cousin to open it. Still not got her death?
However have found the daughter of Evie & Arthur jun, her marriage & child.
Now have an address for dau & husband and even a telephone no. How's that for result?????
This had been a "brickwall" for many a year.
Thank you everyone for all your help, much appreciated.
Doidy
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Evie Louise Smith of 309 Selsdon Rd South, Croyden died 23 Aug 1982 per her Administration (in the probate records).
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bbart, many thanks for that. Now trying to find the death reg, which hopefully will give me year of birth??????
I'm winning thanks to you all. Doidy
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This is very odd:
We know Arthur Ernest Smith and Amy Harrington were married in Nova Scotia after they arrived there in 1910. But....FreeBMD has the following entry.
Rochford 4a 1013 Jun Q 19
On the same page:
Amy Harrington
Thomas Hatherall
Arthur Ernest Smith
Alice Witt
It appears that Thomas and Alice married each other (possible child, pre-war register). That leaves two people with the same names we have been discussing here. Are they the same couple? Did they marry twice? If married, why sail to Canada as single?
PB
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Hi polarbear.
Thank you for pointing that out. Up until now we had always assumed that this was the marriage for Amy & Arthur, but know from the Canadian marriage that that is correct because of the names given for Amy's parents. My gut feeling is that this is purely coincidental? You'd be surprised how many Arthur Ernest Smith's there are & Amy Harrington isn't than an usual name.
What I still can't find is the death ref for Evie Louise Smith (nee Green) despite her probate showing death as 23 Aug 1982??????????
Many thanks Doidy
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Certainly an odd one.
I haven't had any luck with a death record for Evie either.
PB
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Perhaps Evie was out of country on a trip she died. No luck in the Scotland records, but perhaps she took a vacation somewhere else in Europe?
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The online GRO death index does not appear to have the years 1958-1983. While FreeBMD appears to have almost 100% coverage for 1982, they state this does NOT guarantee that all entries have been transcribed. So perhaps Evie's entry just hasn't been transcribed yet.
FreeBMD info at this link....
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/progressD.shtml#y1970
PB
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Hi Everyone who helped me with this thread. It resulted in great success & I am now in touch with grand daughter of Amy Harrington. She has been extremely helpful filling in lots of gaps . But with every answer comes another question.
I now have a beautiful photograph of a lady and a small child, sent from St. Paul, Minnesotta,Canada with the caption "look at the kid close, I see old Ernest".
Now Amy Harrington had a brother Ernest, so I wander if there is a connection? Ernest Harrington was son of Hannah & James Pope, born 27 Feb 1884, Essex. I know the date because I have found the bapt on Familysearch. I can't be certain abt his birth ref? In 1891 he is in the family home in Hextable, Kent & it suggests he was born Grays, Essex. In 1901 he is in Footscray in Kent, in the home of the Warner family. I know it is him because his brother Henry (Harry) is also there. There after he vanishes, but I do know his brother Henry went with his brother Albert to Canada. So now I am wandering, did Ernest go to???????????
Any help much appreciated.
Thank you Doidy
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Henry Harrington died in Pennsylvania 1956
Henry Harrington 6 Sept 1879 England - died 18 December 1956 -aged 77 years -Philadelphia PA - widowed - painter - burial West Laurel Hill Cemetery. Informant Henry Harrington. St Paul Minnesota.
Father James Harrington - Mother: Hannah Pope.
FIND A GRAVE
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/91441701
AND Rebecca Viola Harrington
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/91441711
The Philadelphia Inquirer
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
6 Aug 1940, Tue Page 24
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/53759838/rebecca-viola-crow-brown-harrington-6/
Sandra
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Hi "Sandra".
Very many thanks for that. I have struggled to get my head around it, having checked and rechecked what I have. The information re the death, I wander what the source below is? My Henry Harrington, son of Hannah Pope & James Harrington, was born July 1880, Bow. London (Middx) and died 1969, Minnesota.
I know for definite the info I have in 1891 census is correct as parents and rest of family are correct. I am pretty certain 1901 is correct as it shows him with his brother Ernest, which is correct?
Some amazing coincidences, but???????
I look forward to your comments & thank you for trying.
Most of the info I have for Henry comes from his gt grand daughter.
Thanks Doidy
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The informant on the death certificate for Henry Harrington who died 1956 Philadelphia was Harry Harrington, 242 Ruth Avenue. St Pauls Minnesota. This Harry was born 1884 - could it be Ernest and he changed his name ?
Harry D Harrington - St Paul, Minnesota, City Directory, 1937
Residence Year: - 1937 - Street address: 242 Ruth av Residence Place: St Paul, Minnesota, USA
Occupation: Painter
Spouse: Edith Harrington
Sandra
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Bearing in mind Ernest birth date was 27/7/1884 - the date given on find a grave for Harry D Harrington in St Pauls Minnesota was 21/7/1884 - (sometimes not unusual for a birth date to vary - sometimes didn't know exactly when they were born. Both Henry and Harry are obviously connected.
21 Jul 1884 England Death 24 Feb 1969 (aged 84) Chisago County, Minnesota.
Burial Chisago Lake Hillside Cemetery Center City, Chisago County, Minnesota.
Plot Block: A 04 - Lot: 10 Grave: 11
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/55711208
Sandra
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Hi Sandra.
Once again thank you.
Ernest's dob was actually 27 Feb 1884. I realise what you are saying abt Henry, two siblings couldn't be born the same year. I don't know why the dob is 1884 on his memorial? Someone got it wrong. I do know from his gt grand daughter he was born 1880 & that seems to consistently fit through the early census's ie I see I have him in parental home in 1881 aged 1, so that is back up for that.
It is trying to see what became of brother Ernest that is really my mission for now.
Must pop out before it rains.
Once again thank you Diana
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Ernest Harrington Age: 0 - Birth Date: 27 Jul 1884
Baptism Date: 9 Mar 1885 Baptism Place: Essex, England
James Harrington Mother: Hannah Harrington
Sandra
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Harry Harrington death certificate in Philadlephia gives 6/9/1879
Henry Harrington - Baptism Date: 28 Sep 1879
Baptism Place: Bethnal Green St James the Great, Tower Hamlets.
Father James Harrington - Mother: Hannah Harrington
1891 census says Henry was born Old Ford - Old Ford is in the London Borough of Tower Hamlets
Sandra
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Hi Sandra.
Thanks again, you really are trying hard. I can see there is a Henry H born London abt same time who married Viola. He is the one who died Philadelphia.
Mine was def with Elizabeth (Edith) Middleton. I have photos, dates etc from my cousin, his grand daughter who is very thorough in her research.
I have looked on Familysearch & one person has this couple in the wrong place in two census's? I know because I have them in correct place. I have messaged so will see if they get in touch?
I am wandering if the bapt you sent is for the other Henry Harrington that married Viola & someone has attached the names James & Hannah as parents? I know you feel the months fit & I understand why. But I still believe the one I want was born 1880. It's quite a common name around that area.
I am happy to message you directly if you know how to do that? I struggle with this site.
Thanks Diana
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About Ernest....
GRO has
Ernest Harrington
Sep qtr 1884
Orsett 4a Page 335
MMN Pope
Orsett registration district is in Essex. This quarter matches the birthdate in the baptism record that *Sandra* posted earlier.
PB
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Hi Polar Bear.
Many thanks for that. I've seen that one, but disregarded it because the bapt gives dob as follows:-
Name:
Ernest Harrington
Event Type:
Christening
Event Date:
9 Mar 1885
Event Place:
Essex, England, United Kingdom
Birth Date:
27 Feb 1884
Father's Name:
James Harrington
Mother's Name:
Hannah Harrington
Record Number:
This is a long time after the given birth date to register the birth? The bapt was quite a while, but then that's not that unusual. The family only seem to of been in Essex a short time before moving to Kent.
So the big mystery is where does Ernest go after 1901????????
Thank you for your help, I will accept that birth as correct as it gives mmn Pope, which I couldn't view on Familysearch.
Regards Doidy
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Ance*try doesn't have an image to view but their transcription for the baptism date of 09 Mar 1885 for Ernest has his birthdate as 27 July 1884. Parents James and Hannah. Plaistow St Andrew Parish Records.
PB
Edited: just realized *Sandra* posted these dates earlier.
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About Henry....
GRO has
Henry Harrington
Poplar Dec qtr 1879 1C 608
MMN Pope
This registration would match the dates related to the death and baptism info posted earlier by *Sandra*.
PB
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Hi Polar Bear.
Thank you for that transcript for Ernest's bapt, that seems to tie in better. Guess Familysearch got that one incorrectly transcribed? I know these things happen.
Re Henry, I have been given his dob as 21 July 1880, but not found the birth. On his memorial it shows 21 July 1884. At least the day & month are consistent, though only as gd as the info handed down. 1884 is def incorrect as he is with his parents in 1881 census, also his bro Ernest was born 1884. If his birth was 1879, which GRO seems to show, then I wonder why it was reg Dec Q, which means it wouldn't of been reg until after 1 Oct? Again this seems late?
Now records seem to show a Henry Harrington born abt 1879/80 London who married a Voila & went to USA, but my Henry didn't marry Viola, he lived with Elizabeth k/a Edith Middleton who took his name (difficult story). I have them & their family tracked through the census's.
Back to Ernest, where did he go to????????
Many thanks for your help.
Doidy
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These Henrys are confusing.
The Henry I was referring to just above was the one who died in Philadelphia in 1956 and was apparently married to Viola. His birth year is given as 1879. A birthdate and baptism in Sept of 1879 as posted by *Sandra* earlier would tie in with the Dec 1879 registration with MMN Pope. Parents had 6 weeks in which to register a birth so if the child wasn't registered until 6 weeks or so the registration would fall in the Dec quarter.
PB
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Hi Polar Bear.
But mine had mmn Pope?????? Mine def wasn't married to Viola, nor did he die in Philadelphia. The bapt Sandra gave had parents James & Hannah, which mine did. See how difficult this is??????
Once again thank you. Doidy
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How do you account for the link from Henry Harrington - died Philadelphia 1956 ?
Informant Harry Harrington 242 Ruth Street, ST Pauls Minnesota as per the death certificate.
Where does the middle name "Daniel" come from - Harry Daniel Harrington St Pauls Minnesota died 1969
Partial copy below.
Henry Harrington - Philadelphia 1956
Sandra
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Hi Sandra & Polar Bear.
Thank you both for all your help on this one.
To answer your question Sandra, middle name Daniel acquired along the way when signing up for service & was told "you must have a middle name".
I needed to get my head around this death cert & I am so pleased you sent it. I feel I have possibly reached a satisfactory conclusion, but it wouldn't be ethical to post on here. If either of you want to message me privately to discuss it then I am happy to do that.
As with every answer. more questions arise.
I have been looking at Rebecca Viola Crow Harrington. It seems there was a marriage for her to Edgar William Brown:-
Name:
Edgar W. Brown
•
Event Type:
Marriage
Event Date:
30 Oct 1909
•
Event Place:
Franklin, Ohio, United States
•
Gender:
Male
Age:
45
Birth Date:
17 Sep
Birth Year (Estimated):
1864
Birthplace:
Shajahanpore, Indies
Father's Name:
John D. Brown
•
Mother's Name:
Susan Rahn
•
Spouse's Name:
Rebecca Viola Crow
Spouse's Gender:
Female
Spouse's Age:
39
Spouse's Marital Status:
Widowed
Spouse's Birth Date:
30 May
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated):
1870
Spouse's Birthplace:
Catlettsburg, Ky.
Spouse's Father's Name:
Adam Crow
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Henrietta Brooks
Digital Folder Number:
004017585
Record Number:
113
Record Number:
113
However one Genealogy tree on Familysearch show this as the date of marriage to Henry Harrington? There are obvious errors in this as it show's Viola's birth as 1870 & it should read 1860. It also shows Rebecca as widowed, but no indication of her prev married name, nor can I find that marriage? She shows up as Crow in 1880 & 1900 as Crow 7 in family home. by 1940 she shows as Harrington. I haven't found the years in between?
I also now need to find early records of Henry Harrington going to/arriving in Pennsylvania & the years before 1940.
Again any help much appreciated.
Thank you Doidy
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Pennsylvania Marriage Index
Henry Harrington spouse: Viola Crow
marriage Place: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. - Marriage Year 1926
Marriage License Number 524777
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JVWG-BJS
Sandra
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Hi Sandra.
Once again thank you. The jigsaw is slowly knitting together. Someone on Ancestry obviously had the wrong husband by the wrong date.
It is quite amazing as Viola was 66 when she married Henry, her 2nd or third marriage & his first at 40 ish. At least I can safely assume there were no children!
It would of been good to find them in 1930 census, but I can only find 1940?
Anyway, once again I am very appreciative of all your help. Doidy
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Harry Harrington - 6 September 1877 - WW1 Draft - Minneapolis, Hennepin, Minnesota. (12 September 1918) occupation painter.
Nearest relative Albert Harrington. 2100 Margaret Street Minnesota.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K87L-J6T
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-8182-Q7L?i=2117&cc=1968530&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AK87L-J6T
Sandra
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Albert Harrington - marriage Date: 13 Jul 1912
Marriage Place: St Paul, Ramsey, Minnesota
Spouse's name: Edith Mary Townsend
Albert Harrington - 7 August 1887 - 2036 E. Margaret St St. Paul, Ramsey, Minnesota (5th June 1917)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K87T-B4K
1920 census St Paul Ward 2, Ramsey, Minnesota.
Abert Harrington 32
Edith Harrington 33
Herbert J Harrington 6
Margaret Harrington 5
1930 census St Paul, Ramsey, Minnesota.
Albert Harrington 42 Painter. Imm 1910.
Edith M Harrington 43
Herbert J Harrington 16
Margeret E Harrington 15
Edith E Harrington 10
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X38Y-5KB
naturalization - https://www.ironrangeresearchcenter.org/details/7/812875/
1940 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KS25-J32
WW2 Draft - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKCC-3KQN
Albert Harrington Divorced.
FIND A GRAVE Albert Harrington (1960)
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/134139523
Sandra
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Hi Sandra.
Just had chance to look through what you sent. Once again thank you very much. Some of Albert's I had, some I didn't, so now I know even more abt him. He is relatively easy. His bro Henry had yet another birth date on his record, but obviously him.
I will see if there are any other siblings I am struggling with?
Meantime thankyou. Doidy
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Next child of Hannah Pope & James Harrington that I have problems with is George Harringtton born 1872 Bow, Middx. I have him right through to 1911 when he is living in Chiselhurst, Kent. He married Emma Bicknell,I think it looks like she died in 1946, Bromley, Kent. I have 3 of their 4 children (one died pre 1911 census, so don't know name).
After 1911 George & Emma vanish except for Emma's possible death as above. If that is her death, where were they/she in 1939? Their daughter Emma married to Dennis John Creagh does end up in Canada by the time her third child is born in 1925 in Winnipeg, Manitoba. But if they went to, that wouldn't account for the possible death for Emma nee Bicknell in 1949?
Any help appreciated please.
Doidy
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Obit for Emma - in case you haven't already got it. Mentions survived by one brother Ernie in England.
The Times
Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
24 Jun 1975, Tue Page 11
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/54255585/emma-georgina-creagh-24-june-1975/
Sandra
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Obit for D J Creagh
Nanaimo Daily News
Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
22 Apr 1963, Mon Page 9
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/54255815/d-j-creagh-22-april-1963/
Sandra
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Kay L Byers - daughter of Emma and Dennis Creagh - 12 June 2005
https://www.nanaimobulletin.com/obituaries/kay-l-byers/
Sandra
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Hi Sandra.
These are great, thank you. I had some of the info, but this has embroidered it!!!!!!!!!!
I see in Emma Harrington's obit it says she is survived by one brother "Ernie" in England (the old family name of Ernest), I have him.
There was one other brother Alfred, who we now know pre deceased Emma in 1975. He was born abt 1897, Swanley, Kent. I have struggled with his birth as several possibilities?
It is looking like this is him because bapt is Swanley, Kent:-
Harrington
Alfred Harry
1897
-
1897
England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Dartford, Kent, England
View transcript.
..
Harrington
Alfred Harry
1897
1971
1971
England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Gosport, Hampshire, England
View transcript.
..
Harrington
Alfred Harry
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Which would mean this was his death & he married Event Type:
Marriage
Event Place:
Bromley, Kent, England
Registration District:
Bromley
County:
Kent
Registration Quarter:
Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year:
1917
Volume:
2A
Page:
1368
Affiliate Line Number:
149
Spouse Name (available after 1911):
Chart
Possible Spouse:
Dorothy E Chart
What do you think?
Thanks Doidy
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This looks like the birth for Alfred...
Alfred Harry Harrington mmn Bicknell
Sep qtr 1897
Dartford RD 2A 531
In case you don't know about this...
The GRO website now has mmn (mother's maiden name) from 1837 in their index. The index is free to use...you just need to register. See link below.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
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Hi Polarbear.
Many thanks for that. My instincts told me Alfred Harry was correct. I have now tracked the family through.
I have reg with the GRO office, phew!!!!!!!! Now need to work out how to search easily????????? I didn't know this existed, so many thanks. I am sure once I get my head around it, it'll be of great use.
Thanks Doidy
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You're very welcome.
Once you get your head around how the GRO website works, you will find it most helpful.
PB
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Hi Polarbear.
I have just abt cracked looking for births, taken some time and as you can only go as wide as two years at a time, frustratingly slow. However I found two, that's one to many???????
1911 census says Emma Harrington nee Bicknell gave birth to four live children, 3 now alive.
I have three that I have followed through:- Emma, Alfred and Ernest, they all lived to be adults.
However GRO turned up Jane Harrington mmn Bicknell born 1895 Dartford, Kent, died 1895 Dartford, Kent. Happy enough with that.
BUT it turned up Mary Kate Harrington 1893 mmn Bicknell, Dartford, Kent. I have tried all the sites and absolutely no further trace of this child?????????? Now I don't know what to think?????
Thanks Doidy
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Hi again
There is always the possibility that George forgot how many children were born....they were born quite some years prior.
Having said that...
I was wndering if you are aware of this website?
https://cityark.medway.gov.uk It is free to use. Click on Parish Records to access same.
I had a look on that website for Mary Kate and found...
Mary Kate Harrington
Baptized 07 May 1893
Parents Gerorge and Emma of Swanley
At Swanley St Paul
So she appears to be yours. There is a death of a Kate Harrington in the index for 1894 in Dartford RD that could be her. I haven't looked for a burial record.
I will leave it to you to look for a possible baptism for Jane.
PB
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Hi polarbear.
Well that did my head in. I finally got into the relevant pages, had to go through the tutorial to do so. I found Mary Kate & Alfred Harry, but not their first child Emma Georgia or last Ernest George? I didn't find Jane. I am wandering if she barely lived? Maybe not long enough to be bapt?
Certainly fascinating looking at all those bapts, there were a few Bicknell's, so obviously related to Emma nee Bicknell.
The million dollar question is how did you know which church to look under???????
I am learning as well as solving problems!
Thank you, much appreciated Doidy
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Yes it is quite the experience but since they set it up that way we now get to download each set in its entirety. We used to have to download each page seperately without knowing how close we were to the record we were looking for. That was very time consuming so searching is much faster now.
Forgot about Emma. Another website suggests her baptism was at Dartford Holy Trinity so you should find her there quite easily. The transcription gives a baptism date of 30 Sep 1891.
It is possible Jane wasn't baptized so probably the only way to know if she belongs in your family would be to purchase her birth cert.
If I remember correctly, the family is in Chislehurst by 1901 census? If they were still there when Ernest was born the cityark website doesn't cover that area.
I see cityark now has Sutton at Hone which I think Emma was from? You might get lucky and find her marriage to George took place there.
PB