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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: Tsu on Thursday 14 May 20 14:20 BST (UK)
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I have a birth certificate from 1866. The child was born at 1 Dorset Terrace, Southampton and the mother's residence is given as 12 Saint Mary's Place, Southampton.
I can't find either of these places on any maps.
The mother was on her own and the child illegitimate.
Can anyone help me please?
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St Mary's Place is shown on this map here:
https://maps.nls.uk/view/105987331
to the east of the cricket ground called Hoglands
Dorset Terrace has so far eluded me.
Nell
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Dorset Terrace apparently used to be on west side of Waterhouse Lane near the north end in Millbrook. Found it on this useful site
sotonopedia.wikidot.com/page-browse:dorset-place-and-dorset-terrace
Jan
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Thank you!
It's a mystery why she was in Southampton at all. She was born and lived in Halstead in Essex and as far as I know knew nobody in Hampshire.
Her son's birth certificate says 'dependent on parents' under the mother's name. Father's name is blank.
I was hoping that I could see who lived in these places in the 1861 and 1871 census returns and it might give me a clue.
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How old was the mother at the time? It could be she was in service in that area and got into trouble.
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The mother was Mary Smoothy born in Halstead in 1837. She came from quite a good family (farmers) and in 1861 was a governess living with her aunt on her aunt's farm in Halstead. Her sister married well and in her father's will (he died prematurely in 1841) she was left a lot of money that I don't think she ever saw.
Certainly, by 1871 she was living in Kent as s dyer and seems to have been more or less on her uppers. She assumed a married name (no husband was ever in evidence) but it was just her and her son. She died, an alcoholic in 1883 in the workhouse.
The son (born Thomas Humphrey Smoothy) was my late husband's great grandfather and was known as Thomas Humphrey England (England being the name Mary assumed after his birth).
He went to New Zealand shortly after Mary's death.
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So I'm looking at the Alners who lived at 12 St. Mary's Place in 1861, 1871 and 1881.
My son has a DNA match with an Ancestry tree that has Alners in it. Still doesn't explain what Mary was doing in Southampton.
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Is any occupation given for the mother on the birth certificate? Sometimes it says domestic servant or similar.
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So I'm looking at the Alners who lived at 12 St. Mary's Place in 1861, 1871 and 1881.
1871 has an Elizabeth Abbinett age 63 at 12 St Marys Place doesn't it?
She is on her own - living derived from house property
Maybe Mary was her companion for a time.
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Walter Thomas Harding Alner marries in 1867. Can't locate him in 1861 yet in case he anything to do with it.
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So I'm looking at the Alners who lived at 12 St. Mary's Place in 1861, 1871 and 1881.
1871 has an Elizabeth Abbinett age 63 at 12 St Marys Place doesn't it?
She is on her own - living derived from house property
Maybe Mary was her companion for a time.
Perhaps. That's something I hadn't considered. How would a lady advertise for such a companion back then I wonder?
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How would a lady advertise for such a companion back then I wonder?
In the newspapers.
Both sides advertised.
I think there were also agencies.
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I don't suppose they gave their names in the adverts.
Mary's sister ran a ladies college in London before her marriage. And Mary's mother Ann Allom also ran a school in Halstead according to the 1851 census.
When Mary's mother died in 1893 she left the equivalent of £340,000 to her 'only daughter' Ellen. I wonder if she even knew that her eldest daughter had died in poverty a few years before?
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How would a lady advertise for such a companion back then I wonder?
In the newspapers.
Both sides advertised.
I think there were also agencies.
In the 19th Century there were 'Register Offices' which was the commonly used name for employment agencies, servants, governesses, and companions looking for new positions would register with them. The term seems to have disappeared towards the end of the century to be replaced by Employment Agency. Other terms used were "Intelligence Office for Servants" or "Domestic Servants Intelligence Office" and "Servants Home and Registry"
From the Bristol Times and Mirror 30 January 1869
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Intriguing. I suppose the most logical explanation is that she was in Southampton as either a governess, teacher or ladies companion.
What a fall from grace.
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I don't seem to be able to find Dorset Terrace in any census. What am I doing wrong?
The birth certificate definitely says Dorset Terrace.
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I don't seem to be able to find Dorset Terrace in any census. What am I doing wrong?
The birth certificate definitely says Dorset Terrace.
That site in reply #2 says
Dorset Terrace was formerly in Waterhouse Lane, Millbrook, on the west side near the north end.
But I have not found Waterhouse Lane yet either!
Added...found it, enter Millbrook, not Southampton.
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I found Water House Lane (It was listed as two words on Find My Past) but scrolling through the images, there's no Dorset Terrace mentioned.
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Nor in 1871 either
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Frustrating.
Looking at Thomas Humphrey Smoothy (England)'s marriage certificate, his father's name is given as Thomas Henry England - Corn Merchant. I can find no exact candidates assuming that she used the real father's name but her own father was a Maltster so he may have stuck to what she knew.
There are a couple of Thomas England's in the vicinity but nothing that gives me any other clue. I did think the name Humphrey might also be a clue but got no further with that, either.
Oh well. One day a DNA match might pop up that solves the mystery.
Any further thoughts that might give me another angle to consider would be greatly appreciated.
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This map has lots of the terraces marked.
I haven’t quite figured out where I should be looking on it
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102343122
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Dorset Terrace apparently used to be on west side of Waterhouse Lane near the north end in Millbrook. Found it on this useful site
http://sotonopedia.wikidot.com/page-browse:dorset-place-and-dorset-terrace
Jan
This map shows a row of houses at that location https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/439745/113490/12/100642
It was very common for rows of houses on a main road to be called *** Terrace, and are not normally named on maps.
Stan
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This map has lots of the terraces marked.
I haven’t quite figured out where I should be looking on it
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102343122
Found Waterhouse Lane. No Dorset Terrace marked. :(
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Side by Side https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=18&lat=50.92004&lon=-1.43635&layers=168&right=BingHyb
Stan
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Funnily enough, I found it in 1901 us far too late to be any help. I also found Lower Dorset Terrace in 1891, both are on Waterhouse Lane but no mention at all in 1861 or 1871.
Of course, it may be that whoever lived at 1 Dorset Terrace was a midwife.
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Found Waterhouse Lane. No Dorset Terrace marked. :(
As I posted It was very common for rows of houses on a main road to be called *** Terrace, and are not normally named on maps.
Stan
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Side by Side https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=18&lat=50.92004&lon=-1.43635&layers=168&right=BingHyb
Stan
That's a brilliant map, Stan. I will have a lot of fun with that. Thank you!