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General => The Stay Safe Board => Topic started by: BushInn1746 on Tuesday 19 May 20 05:19 BST (UK)
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UK Government begins large-scale virus infection and antibody test study
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-begins-large-scale-virus-infection-and-antibody-test-study
Intrathecal - Introduced into or occurring in the space under the arachnoid membrane of the brain or spinal cord.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/intrathecal-antibody-test-request-form
"The flagship study forms part of Pillar 4 of the government’s COVID-19 testing strategy, to conduct UK-wide surveillance testing to learn more about the spread of the disease and help inform the development of new tests and treatments."
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This is highly Specialised Testing!
It takes me back to my 30s when I had Blood tests, CSF Tests and other Tests to try and discover the reason for Atrophy.
Mark
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It almost sounds worse than the disease!
Ouch!
Hope it solved the causes your health issues.
Is it very time consuming?
I don’t know the latest numbers in America ,I wonder how people manage without a health service like ours.?
Viktoria.
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I must be missing something, where does it indicate that intra-thecal testing will be used to detect Covid-19 antibodies?
The form linked to indicates that the patient has symptoms of encephalitis, meningitis, or meningo encephalitis.
Lumbar punctures are only done in a hospital setting, as far as I am aware. I certainly would not undergo one just to see if I had antibodies, but if I had suspected brain infection as above, obviously I would have one done.
Regards Margaret
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I must be missing something, where does it indicate that intra-thecal testing will be used to detect Covid-19 antibodies?
The form linked to indicates that the patient has symptoms of encephalitis, meningitis, or meningo encephalitis.
Lumbar punctures are only done in a hospital setting, as far as I am aware. I certainly would not undergo one just to see if I had antibodies, but if I had suspected brain infection as above, obviously I would have one done.
Regards Margaret
Hi Margaret and Viktoria
Reference to Long Term Covid-19 Study here (report expected about May 2021)
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-begins-large-scale-virus-infection-and-antibody-test-study
According to the online Form it suggests two types of tests:-
1. Blood Tests.
2. CSF (which is usually Cerebral Spinal Fluid)
CSF is usually taken by Lumbar Puncture as you say and whilst the needle was in, they took my CSF pressure.
If it helps, taking my CSF sample was absolutely painless.
You lay on your side on the hospital bed and arch your back as much as possible (head toward your toes) and try to relax. (Relaxing is not easy after the dishonest pub stories heard :D ).
A Local Anesthetic is injected (a normal tiny needle scratch) near to joint gap they have decided to enter. They check the anesthetic has worked first. When happy they then inject with a small needle between the spine joints and into the CSF spinal fluid for a sample.
Despite a scan showing Atrophy and deterioration etc., I'm afraid the CSF never established a cause.
Take care, Mark
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Atrophy and deterioration - that could explain a lot :)
I was a nurse for over 40 years, I saw quite a few LPs that didn't go as well as yours did, Mark, though the majority went fairly smoothly.
But the form indicates reasons for the test would only be for serious brain disease, so they would only look for the C-19 antibodies in patients who developed it.
Interesting. There is still so much to learn about this virus.
Regards Margaret
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And what is the bet the darn thing will be changing all the time.,
So no cause known for your Atrophy.?
As I remember Atrophy is a symptom,not an actual disease,but please correct me ,you know more than I do.
Thanks for the info, as has been said, you can learn something almost every day on RootsChat.
Viktoria.
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Hi
Reading a few bits & pieces (in two of many Medical Reports) and just looking at my Stash of a few Cholesterol ruining baddies (6 packets of biscuits & several packets of chocolate bars acquired throughout Lockdown), I'm personally more concerned about snacking on these :o , than going outside for a walk :) !!
Especially when good diet and exercise is vital to keep my heart & circulation as healthy as possible, keeping my BMI right and to be able to try and fight Coronavirus!
Mark
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The form linked to indicates that the patient has symptoms of encephalitis, meningitis, or meningo encephalitis.
Lumbar punctures are only done in a hospital setting, as far as I am aware. I certainly would not undergo one just to see if I had antibodies, but if I had suspected brain infection as above, obviously I would have one done.
Regards Margaret
Margaret, it was most interesting that you spotted those Brain illnesses on the Form.
Because Coronavirus Covid-19 (including Non-respiratory Covid-19) is also causing inflammation to various organs, including Encephalitis (inflammation in the brain).
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It seems that an opinion is forming that people begin to lose their natural healthy immune system during a lockdown to stop the spread of a Virus.
Because healthy immune systems are no longer being exposed to other contacts, interactions and other environments. Also stress and loneliness during a lockdown might also be affecting the immune system.
Recovery from Coronavirus seems mainly dependent on our own immune system's ability to fight a virus.
Mark
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I really think to send small children back to school is wrong, even though seemingly most get mild symptoms ,but can they transmit the disease and what if they get the very rare but severe complications?
Bury Council are not sending them back.
It is also interesting re our immune systems,like children who never mixed with their peers got every illness going when the eventually did.
Viktoria.
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I was led to believe it was the returning Teachers who fear catching it off the children.
However, my neighbour a County Council Teacher has been working (on a rota due to being partially open) throughout the Lockdown, to provide schooling for children of Key Workers and the Vulnerable Children. Also my Town was one of the top four Coronavirus hot-spots recently.
Therefore, I find the Teachers & their Union stance very odd especially when:-
some of their Teacher Colleagues,
NHS Hospitals,
NHS Staff,
NHS Casualty Command,
Private Hospital support,
Hotels providing support,
Professors,
Consultants,
Doctors,
Public Health,
Scientists,
Drug & Vaccine Researchers,
Human trials,
Specialists,
Epidemiologists,
University Research Scientists,
Laboratories,
Construction Industry (support for urgent related works),
Carers,
Farmers,
National Agency covering Crime & Fraud,
Food distribution,
Supermarkets (staff just 2 feet away when I'm paying),
Drivers,
Postal workers,
Water,
Engineers making Ventilators,
Medical Equipment makers & suppliers,
Medical Clothing makers & suppliers,
Chemists,
Oxygen Makers and Suppliers,
Clothing Makers,
Councils,
Gas workers,
Electricity workers,
Telephone workers,
Insurance,
Police,
Fire,
Ambulance,
Air Ambulance,
Air Traffic Controllers,
Cargo Aircraft,
Coastguard,
Bus staff,
Train staff,
Tube staff,
Army,
Royal Navy,
Royal Air Force,
Emergency Planners,
Local Resilience,
Ministers,
Government Departments,
Committees, Health etc & Coronavirus Sub-Committees,
Thousands of Government Pensioners who have come out of Retirement and returned to work.
M.P.s,
Local Gov't,
Banks,
other Essential Workers,
Volunteers, etc., etc.,
have worked and are working throughout a National Emergency.
Mark
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It is true that many public sector people have continued working, and for that I am grateful of course.
The teachers are very afraid of wrecking what the lockdown has achieved so far.
Keep in mind the jolly Korean who visited a few night clubs and from that 100 people became infected, though fortunately their track and trace system prevented any deaths, so far.
Take an average family where 3 children go to 3 different schools of 600 to 1,000 children each.
I don't think one needs to be a scientist to realise how easily one child could, potentially, cause a resurgence and a second wave.
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There has been no second wave elsewhere so why should the Uk be different?
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I truly hope you are right and there is no need for further precautions Sonofthom.
The difference in new cases and deaths between Denmark and UK is vast, and there are other reasons why England/UK has been different, like not using January & February for preparation and not having an effective testing system in place..... but check out what is happening in Iran, and then be complacent.
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I am certainly not being complacent but I am deeply concerned about the long term damage being done by lockdown. The British Medical Journal has referred to the "staggering" number of excess deaths during lockdown that are not due to the coronavirus and the effects of what the Chancellor envisages as the worst recession we have ever seen will be with us for many years, including excess mortality. This is shaping up to be the classic case of the cure being much worse than the disease.
As regards Iran I wouldn't regard it's figures as the most reliable and would see European comparisons as more credible. Nevertheless in Iran deaths peaked at 158 on 4th April and have been falling since.
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"As regards Iran I wouldn't regard it's figures as the most reliable and would see European comparisons as more credible. Nevertheless in Iran deaths peaked at 158 on 4th April and have been falling since"......
.....But the new cases are climbing in a dramatic manner.
Obviously we are hitting (have hit,) a GLOBAL commercial low.
In the UK specifically, I imagine our government may well consider the Covid crisis a boon and a blessing as it is veiling all other important issues.
Looks like we may just have to take it on the chin!
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Hello
I recently experienced an act of human bravery, courage and human compassion that one human could show to another, when an NHS worker got real close and conducted tests, to try and discover the reason behind a mystery illness attacking my body in April and I had/have been strictly following the Rules.
There is an established view amongst some Professors that to produce a safe vaccine fast, the minimum time usually required to get a safe one is three (3) years.
There also seems to be a view amongst some health professionals that people currently hiding behind their Front Doors (without good reason like their immune system is already damaged/crashed) whilst good weather is here, possibly eating too much, having little or no exercise and gaining weight, are weakening their bodies and immune systems.
We also need our immune system to work to fight the virus attacking our bodies in the future, or if a second wave hits in 6 to 7 months time (Winter).
British media has whipped up so much fear, that people are missing possibly vital hospital appointments too.
Even if you could get contract tracing down to 24 hours, people contracting the Virus may already be infecting others before their symptoms show.
Some symptoms of Coronavirus are very subtle and a person may not realise that they already have the virus.
The only thing we can be sure of now, is that millions were still working throughout, millions are returning to work and tens of thousands are answering our Government's Call to come out of Retirement or Work to assist Government Departments during a National Emergency, also the wonderful bravery of NHS and Carers and the genuine Public acts and gifts of good spirit, decency and compassion shown to others.
It seems whichever way one chooses in relation to Coronavirus (shut yourself away, or carry on as normal with social distancing and good hygiene) there is a risk.
Mark
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I wholeheartedly agree Mark. I spent some time as a patient in ICU some years ago and not only received excellent care but benefited greatly from the positive and reassuring attitude of all the staff.
Risk is something we have to live with and every year there are many flu related deaths which don't induce the level of panic currently being seen. It is very revealing that the Government adviser Professor Robert Dingwall has said that Government has 'terrorised' Britons into believing coronavirus will kill them; we are all paying the price for this in the irrational level of fear being experienced by much of the population. Stay home was probably a very bad slogan as lack of fresh air and exercise do not improve one's immune system; indeed there is ample evidence that sunshine and the resultant Vitamin D that it produces in our bodies enhances our immunity to viruses.
As for a vaccine it is conceivable that we will never have one or at best we are probably several years away. For the sake of our own futures and particularly for the futures of the younger generations we need to get accept risk as a part of life and start living our lives to the full again.
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I’m with you Mark as well, but we are a few lone voices crying in the wilderness, but I must add that for teachers and others it is a personal choice we should respect.
A random thought this, contact tracing is the answer say a new body of experts today, but if everyone obeys social distancing rigorously there will never be any contacts.
My consultant won’t let me have a CT scan, I’d rather you stay alive were his words.
Mike
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Looking askance at the covid deaths in Iran, the true death rate in Britain may have passed 50K.
Skoosh.
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Have just read all of the above, sorry it took me a little while, we were out, walking in the sunshine.
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This morning I have received an email from the UK Biobank asking if I would volunteer to help their research into Covid-19. If selected I will be required to send them approx 10 drops of blood from a finger-prick every month for at least 6 months. The kit will be sent to me, along with a short questionaire about possible symptoms, to take the sample and return by post. It will be tested for antibodies, it also asks that if I have children and grandchildren to ask them to take part.
Sounds a very good idea to me.
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There's also a problem with the antigen tests in care-homes, regular testing is a good idea regarding the staff but some are reluctant as a positive result results in a lay off & there should be no loss of pay here.
A further difficulty is the repeated antigen tests being quite painful to an old person & the tests are reportedly producing a one-in-three false-negative!
Skoosh.
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There also seems to be a view amongst some health professionals that people currently hiding behind their Front Doors (without good reason like their immune system is already damaged/crashed) whilst good weather is here, possibly eating too much, having little or no exercise and gaining weight, are weakening their bodies and immune systems.
Mark
I am not 'hiding behind my front door', I'm doing what we were told to do to keep the health service professionals available for genuinely unwell people such as yourself - & to restrict the spread of the virus. We do take as much exercise as mobility issues allow (nothing to do with our immune systems) & certainly do not spend all our time, sitting about, eating & gaining weight. Whilst at home, in common with all my friends, we have been busy doing things around the house & garden.
Most people are dealing with this hideous situation as best they can. I don't think passing judgement on how they do it is helpful.
I'm pleased your health problems are being dealt with.
Pat
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Mark,
In some cases you are not comparing like with like, the armed forces for instance have no say in whether they keep working or not. They are paid 24 hours a day, 365 days and can be mobilized at very short notice to do the things that civilians either cannot or will not do. The employment laws such as the working hours directive do not apply to the forces and other laws that do also apply to them can easily be suspended. If you were to ask any of them I am sure they would say they are no doing anything special and that they are just doing the job they are paid to. I expect that doctors, nurses, paramedics etc would also say the same.
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This morning I have received an email from the UK Biobank asking if I would volunteer to help their research into Covid-19. If selected I will be required to send them approx 10 drops of blood from a finger-prick every month for at least 6 months. The kit will be sent to me, along with a short questionaire about possible symptoms, to take the sample and return by post. It will be tested for antibodies, it also asks that if I have children and grandchildren to ask them to take part.
Sounds a very good idea to me.
Gov.uk website gives some general information about projects
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-begins-large-scale-study-of-coronavirus-immunity
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Thanks Pat, there are also some of us here in our small gardens too. Very good health to you.
At home and feeling very fortunate so far :) :) , Mark
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Interesting reply, Mark. Have you seen what the Italian PM is saying.
We cannot afford to wait any longer and risk an irreparably compromised society and production system.
I wonder if that will apply to us in a couple of weeks, shades of the 1930s hanging over us.
Mike
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This thread has understandably died but as it is technical in its contents I thought I would post this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52754280
A very very similar treatment has worked for me, sent a previously terminal condition into remission.
The science I know is now proven, my only contribution was to follow the instructions to keep a healthy immune system.
I see a glimmer of hope.
Mike
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This thread has understandably died but as it is technical in its contents I thought I would post this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52754280
A very very similar treatment has worked for me, sent a previously terminal condition into remission.
The science I know is now proven, my only contribution was to follow the instructions to keep a healthy immune system.
I see a glimmer of hope.
Mike
Hello
Regarding your previous comment Mike (above your quoted reply) we'll soon see. Rolls Royce plan to cut 9,000 jobs and hearing announcements like that are absolutely awful.
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Thanks Mike, I came across the T Cells, this morning, it did sound very good.
On my upper back is about 10 blotches, it looks very much like Chicken Pox (NHS web), had that and Measles as a boy.
Results expected, the only thing I can do is to carry on drinking plenty of water and rest.
Mark