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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: zetlander on Tuesday 19 May 20 19:30 BST (UK)

Title: Grants and Will
Post by: zetlander on Tuesday 19 May 20 19:30 BST (UK)
Checked to see if an aunt had made a will when she died in 2011.
It says there's a 'Grant' but no mention of a Will.
Is it worth getting the 'Grant' - what information is likely to be on it?
Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: Skoosh on Tuesday 19 May 20 21:32 BST (UK)
The Funeral Grant? which didn't cover the cost of a funeral.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: Little Nell on Tuesday 19 May 20 21:46 BST (UK)
Likely to be the grant of administration i.e. the right to administer the estate.  It will only tell you who this right was granted, but nothing about what she might have left.  It sounds as if she did not leave a will.

Nell
Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 19 May 20 21:49 BST (UK)
Grant only means there was no will.  The estate would be divided between biological descendants of the deceased

The grant will give very little info apart from who it was awarded to
Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: zetlander on Wednesday 20 May 20 10:24 BST (UK)
Grant only means there was no will.  The estate would be divided between biological descendants of the deceased

The grant will give very little info apart from who it was awarded to

thanks.

The person I'm researching was an only child - her mother was unmarried - she herself didn't marry nor did she have any children. 
Would the Grant give the names of those who would have got her monies etc. ?
Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 20 May 20 12:27 BST (UK)
I'm not sure.   The application form asks a lot of questions about relations of the deceased.  Whether there is any mention in the grant of distribution of assets I don't know. 

I have only applied for probate when there was a will so distribution was clear.

Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: arthurk on Wednesday 20 May 20 13:48 BST (UK)
"Grant only" would suggest suggest an Administration, but I'm not sure you can exclude the possibility of there being a will, but because the executors named were unable or unwilling to act, it had to be an Administration rather than a Probate. Really the only way to be sure would be to order a copy.
Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 20 May 20 13:53 BST (UK)
If you got the info from the website below you will note many entries show "grant & will" whilst some say "grant only"

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

You could ring one of the probate registries and ask if a grant names beneficiaries or just the person to administer the estate
Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: arthurk on Wednesday 20 May 20 14:01 BST (UK)
In this case, zetlander, if your aunt was a sister of one of your parents then it's possible that your parent (if alive) or you might have been entitled to inherit a share of her estate.

If you're thinking something might have been done wrong in 2011, getting a copy of the Grant and any other paperwork held by the Probate Registry would be an essential first step.
Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: zetlander on Wednesday 20 May 20 14:44 BST (UK)
Just phoned the relevant Registry Office.
Not much the wiser!

I think that what happens if someone dies intestate the next-of-kin applies for a Letter of Administration (from a Solicitor??)
This Letter of Administration permits the next-of-kin to distribute the persons monies etc. 
(I guess that usually the next-of-kin would be the closest relative and therefore the main beneficiary.)
In this case the deceased was an only child, never had any children and both her parents were dead so any relative is a distant one.  I called her 'aunt' but in fact she was a second cousin to my mother.  I think there will be many distant relatives like myself.
Not after her money - curious to know who sorted out her estate - honest!
Thanks.

















Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 20 May 20 15:11 BST (UK)
I am classed as next of kin to an elderly former neighbour at his request,  and am also executor of his eventual estate which will be very substantial.  However - I am not related in any way and am not a beneficiary of his will as everything goes to a named charity.

If he were to die intestate - he has absolutely no living relatives so I could possibly apply for a grant of administration.  However,  with no living relatives on his side - it's possible his estate would pass to the Crown regardless of me knowing he wants it all to go to a specific charity.

Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: arthurk on Wednesday 20 May 20 16:36 BST (UK)
Assuming this is England and Wales:

I think that what happens if someone dies intestate the next-of-kin applies for a Letter of Administration (from a Solicitor??)
The Grant (or Letters) of Administration are issued by the Probate Office. A lot of people make their application with the help of a solicitor, though this isn't essential. However, if there isn't a will, administering the estate would involve tracking down all entitled relatives, and not everyone feels up to doing that themselves.

Quote
This Letter of Administration permits the next-of-kin to distribute the persons monies etc. 
(I guess that usually the next-of-kin would be the closest relative and therefore the main beneficiary.)
Or possibly one of the main beneficiaries - if there were several relatives who were equally closely related, such as a set of siblings, it might be that one of them applied for Administration, but they would each get an equal share.

Quote
In this case the deceased was an only child, never had any children and both her parents were dead so any relative is a distant one.  I called her 'aunt' but in fact she was a second cousin to my mother.  I think there will be many distant relatives like myself.
In England and Wales, a second cousin doesn't inherit in intestacy cases. Entitlement goes as far as first cousins, plus their descendants. (I believe the net spreads wider in Scotland.)

Quote
Not after her money - curious to know who sorted out her estate - honest!
The only way to find that out would be to order a copy of the grant. It should say who it was issued to - worth a try at 1.50?
Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: Tickettyboo on Wednesday 20 May 20 17:44 BST (UK)
Like others who have replied I have only ever dealt with 'Probate' i.e. when the deceased left a will and named executors, which would result in both a copy Will AND the Grant of Administration. I have never been involved with an estate for anyone who died intestate - which would only have a Grant of Administration.

https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/who-can-apply
Scroll down to the section headed
If a person did not leave a will

and that says (at least currently) that there are firm rules about who can apply for admin of an estate.

From what you have said none of the listed relationships are likely to have existed for your 'aunt'
so  if it were me (who is terminally nosey) I'd be forking out the 1.50 for a copy of the Grant of Administration to see who was the grantee :-)

I'd doubt the grant would tell you anything other than the name and address of the grantee and the declared gross and net value of the estate, but you never know there 'may' have been a family connection, no matter how remote

Its possible that it was previously published on the Bona Vacantia lists?

Boo

Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: zetlander on Thursday 21 May 20 11:47 BST (UK)
Like others who have replied I have only ever dealt with 'Probate' i.e. when the deceased left a will and named executors, which would result in both a copy Will AND the Grant of Administration. I have never been involved with an estate for anyone who died intestate - which would only have a Grant of Administration.

https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/who-can-apply
Scroll down to the section headed
If a person did not leave a will

and that says (at least currently) that there are firm rules about who can apply for admin of an estate.

From what you have said none of the listed relationships are likely to have existed for your 'aunt'
so  if it were me (who is terminally nosey) I'd be forking out the 1.50 for a copy of the Grant of Administration to see who was the grantee :-)

I'd doubt the grant would tell you anything other than the name and address of the grantee and the declared gross and net value of the estate, but you never know there 'may' have been a family connection, no matter how remote

Its possible that it was previously published on the Bona Vacantia lists?

Boo
thanks -
yes, have sent for a copy of the Grant.  I called the person in question 'aunt' and she was a very distant relation.  I'm just curious to see who administered her Estate.
Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: Little Nell on Friday 22 May 20 10:55 BST (UK)
It might be worth searching for a notice in The Gazette to see if a notice was placed inviting anyone with a possible interest in her estate (perhaps as a creditor) to get in touch with X.

This would be the relevant area to search:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/wills-and-probate

A relative died intestate in the 1990s and the grant of administration was issued in the names of his divorced wife and another relative (who was a cousin).  The administration of the estate was limited for the use and benefit of his child, who was a minor when this relative died. 

Nell
Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: zetlander on Saturday 23 May 20 11:09 BST (UK)
Assuming this is England and Wales:

I think that what happens if someone dies intestate the next-of-kin applies for a Letter of Administration (from a Solicitor??)
The Grant (or Letters) of Administration are issued by the Probate Office. A lot of people make their application with the help of a solicitor, though this isn't essential. However, if there isn't a will, administering the estate would involve tracking down all entitled relatives, and not everyone feels up to doing that themselves.

Quote
This Letter of Administration permits the next-of-kin to distribute the persons monies etc. 
(I guess that usually the next-of-kin would be the closest relative and therefore the main beneficiary.)
Or possibly one of the main beneficiaries - if there were several relatives who were equally closely related, such as a set of siblings, it might be that one of them applied for Administration, but they would each get an equal share.

Quote
In this case the deceased was an only child, never had any children and both her parents were dead so any relative is a distant one.  I called her 'aunt' but in fact she was a second cousin to my mother.  I think there will be many distant relatives like myself.
In England and Wales, a second cousin doesn't inherit in intestacy cases. Entitlement goes as far as first cousins, plus their descendants. (I believe the net spreads wider in Scotland.)

Quote
Not after her money - curious to know who sorted out her estate - honest!
The only way to find that out would be to order a copy of the grant. It should say who it was issued to - worth a try at 1.50?

thanks for your reply.
I received a copy of the Grant (2 days after applying for it!)

My late 'aunt' had 15 X first cousins - 14 had predeceased her. The only survivor was 95 years old !!and the Letter of Administration was granted to her daughter who I assume had Power of Attorney.
The surviving cousin died 6 months after my 'aunt.'
I guess had this cousin not been alive then the Estate would have gone to the Government.
Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: arthurk on Saturday 23 May 20 11:33 BST (UK)
That was quick! It sounds quite an interesting situation - though actually I think the estate would have been shared between all 15 first cousin lines, and for the ones who had died, their descendants. (But I'm not a lawyer, so don't take this as definite.)
Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: Tickettyboo on Saturday 23 May 20 12:01 BST (UK)
Pleased you got the info you were looking for and quickly too! :-)

Boo
Title: Re: Grants and Will
Post by: zetlander on Saturday 23 May 20 12:57 BST (UK)
That was quick! It sounds quite an interesting situation - though actually I think the estate would have been shared between all 15 first cousin lines, and for the ones who had died, their descendants. (But I'm not a lawyer, so don't take this as definite.)

that's interesting - I assumed that as only one first cousin was still alive when my 'aunt' died all her estate would go to this first cousin.  I wonder if the other cousins and their descendants got anything?
(I'm not a descendant of one of the 15 first cousins.)
In fact the cousin who was alive (or her daughter who held Power of Attorney) may not be aware who all the other cousins were. I'm not sure how much money etc. mu aunt would have left - he wasn't wealthy and I'm not sure if she owned the smallholding where she farmed.  Also if she had the means she would have had to for her Residential Care.
Many thanks.