RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: emjsw on Tuesday 19 May 20 22:37 BST (UK)
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Hello there,
I wondered if anyone might have a copy of these volumes and if so whether you might be able to look up the birth of an Isaac Myers/Moyers born 1829+/- 2 years in Middlesex please?
I am trying to find out who his parents may have been.
Thanks for reading my post.
Best wishes, Emma
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Have you tried the website jewishgen
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Have you tried the website jewishgen
Hello, thank you for getting back to me. I have tried this website but thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately I Jane tried all on line resources for this one and now wonder if it is in the books but maybe it what over looked on data entry?
Best wishes to you,
Emma
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The Bevis Marks records are not online. I believe one RootsChat member has personal copies of some volumes. They may be able to help if they see this thread.
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Have you considered contacting the synagogue?
https://www.sephardi.org.uk/bevis-marks/bm-contact/
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Hi
I have these books but part 11 is a marriage book up to 1837 Part V is a circumcision book but I cant see an Isaac around that date
are you certain he is Ashkenazi and not Seraphadi
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The Bevis Marks records are not online. I believe one RootsChat member has personal copies of some volumes. They may be able to help if they see this thread.
Thank you 😊
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Have you considered contacting the synagogue?
https://www.sephardi.org.uk/bevis-marks/bm-contact/
Thank you very much for the link 😊
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Hi
I have these books but part 11 is a marriage book up to 1837 Part V is a circumcision book but I cant see an Isaac around that date
are you certain he is Ashkenazi and not Seraphadi
Hi,
Thanks so much for looking for me, I really appreciate your help.
To be honest I am not sure but was told that as he named his son Isaac also that he was more likely to be Sepherdic and that I should check the Bevis Marks records. To be honest I am really stuck with finding out more about Isaac.
Best wishes Emma
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Hi Emma,
It is true that Ashkenazi Jews would regard it as bad luck to name a child after a living person. However, that custom does not seem to have applied to the use of secular names. That is to say, that Isaac and his son Isaac did not necessarily have the name Hebrew name.
Who did Isaac senior marry and when?
Where did they live?
Do you know when and where the Isaacs died?
Justin
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Related thread (for information)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=792699.0
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Thanks for that link, Bookbox, to earlier post.
Isaac married out of the Jewish community, so there would be no reason for him to adhere to its naming customs and traditions.
A gravestone in Jewish cemetery would have provided his father's name.
Justin
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well had a look at the great synagogue as well but no Isaac around the dates
tried for other children from the link but no luck there either did find Abraham on GRO or at least one around date quoted that says MMN Myers perhaps Isaac wasn't Jewish or perhaps they were all borm overseas just put English on the census
think I am waffling cos a bit baffled!! ::)
Just come across Julia Myers b 1836 married a Henry Barnett 1861 at Great Synagogue which means Ashkenazi. will have another look tomorrow By way father was Benjamin deceased Julias jewish name would be Yetta
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The Bevis Marks records are not online. I believe one RootsChat member has personal copies of some volumes. They may be able to help if they see this thread.
Thank you very much for the heads up 😊
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Have you considered contacting the synagogue?
https://www.sephardi.org.uk/bevis-marks/bm-contact/
Thank you very much for the link 😊
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Hi Emma,
It is true that Ashkenazi Jews would regard it as bad luck to name a child after a living person. However, that custom does not seem to have applied to the use of secular names. That is to say, that Isaac and his son Isaac did not necessarily have the name Hebrew name.
Who did Isaac senior marry and when?
Where did they live?
Do you know when and where the Isaacs died?
Justin
Dear Justin,
Thank you for getting back to me. That is interesting that it is possible that Ashkenazi Jews may have named their children after a living relative in terms of secular names as it means Ashkenazi might be a possibility again. I don't know how I might find their Hebrew name.
Isaac snr married 4 times the second wife Bestsy Martin was the one he had a family with, they married July 1849 in West Bromwich by Banns but I am not sure where. He was a widower and a confectioner, he says his father was Benjamin Myers.
In 1858 he was declared bankrupt but the press article said he had been a journeyman confectioner travelling to places like Coventry and Northampton so maybe he married his first wife there. He had also been a master confectioner later and was and sold beer and wine.
10 Mar 1872 – Marriage to Sarah Ann Theaker (nee Ryley), she was a widow. Marriage at Walsall. This time he gives his father as Isaac Myers but the profession is the same – sealing wax maker.
10 Oct 1878 – Marriage - Isaac a widower, confectioner age 49 remarries on 21 October 1878 to Margaret Clark age 32 a spinster, in Walsall, St John. Both of Long Street. His father is listed as Isaac Myers, diseased, occ. sealing wax maker.
So 2 fathers named, I need to find his first marriage to see what he named his father then.
It seems to be the same Isaac as his profession is not common, his father's name may change but the fact he made sealing wax does not and in 1881 he is with Margaret and daughter Rachel Julia in windle.
Death - 1905 – Death. He died 4 years later in the workhouse. MYERS, Isaac. 76 years, 9 Mar 1905, Abode Union Workhouse Wednesfield, Labourer, Grave 7026, Reg. No. G4/13239
I have not had chance to go to the graveyard yet and although there is a Jewish section at Merridale I don't think it opened until 1965??
I will post further information including why I think he is Jewish a little further in in the thread.
Best wishes
Emma
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Related thread (for information)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=792699.0
Thank you very much for posting the link 😊
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Thanks for that link, Bookbox, to earlier post.
Isaac married out of the Jewish community, so there would be no reason for him to adhere to its naming customs and traditions.
A gravestone in Jewish cemetery would have provided his father's name.
Justin
Hello,
I am not sure what faith the Martins had but the fact that their marriage was by Banns and some of their children were baptised suggest not as you rightly say. I am not sure if it was because they were not practising or lack of a local synagogue or maybe just making sure the family were in the parish register (as some people of other faiths did to ensure they could get poor relief /safe guard against being moved on) .
I know that his son Isaac was Jewish from accounts of relatives but he seems to have married a outside of his faith.
I know Isaac snrs Burial details but do not know if he has a head stone or whether he had a Jewish Burial. I need to visit the cemetery when lock down is over.
Thanks very much for the information.
Best wishes Emma
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well had a look at the great synagogue as well but no Isaac around the dates
tried for other children from the link but no luck there either did find Abraham on GRO or at least one around date quoted that says MMN Myers perhaps Isaac wasn't Jewish or perhaps they were all borm overseas just put English on the census
think I am waffling cos a bit baffled!! ::)
Just come across Julia Myers b 1836 married a Henry Barnett 1861 at Great Synagogue which means Ashkenazi. will have another look tomorrow By way father was Benjamin deceased Julias jewish name would be Yetta
Hello, thanks so much for looking at the Great Synagogue as well, I really appreciate your help. It was very kind of you to look for his potential siblings as well.
Maybe he was no longer Jewish or perhaps he never was although I know his son Isaac 1858 was but he didn't marry a Jewish person. Perhaps they were not observant but kept some traditions? It is also possible that they were born overseas like you say. Catherine, the potential mother was from Holland so perhaps they were born there, at least some of the older children.
It is so confusing!!
It is interesting that in Isaac's second marriage and in Julia's that the father is named as Benjamin and that Julia, Isaac's potential sister was Jewish.
I don't know for sure if Catherine at Frying Pan Alley off Bell Lane was my Isaac's mum, given the information currently available it seems the most likely bet.
Here is the information I have on this family so far:
1826 – Birth of son Jacob Myers 1826 Whitechapel/Aldgate/Artillery Middlesex. Vanishes after 1841, several deaths and marriages fit, maybe he moved to another country?
1828 - Birth of son Aaron Myers 1828-1851 Whitechapel/Aldgate/Artillery Middlesex. Vanishes after 1851. There is a death in 1851Whitechapel but this is for an 8 year old Aaron Myers.
1829 – Birth of son Isaac Myers 1829 - 1905 Whitechapel/Aldgate/Artillery/Bethnal Green, died Wolverhampton. Father given as Benjamin and Isaac sealing wax maker
1835 birth of Henry Myers 1835 Whitechapel/Aldgate/Artillery. He either vanishes or married Caroline according to poor law removal order see later) . If this is the case he was a painter. In poor law order 1864 he is ‘under sentence’ at Newgate. Committed at Mansion House Police Court, Convicted at the Central Criminal Court at the Old Bailey. 16 June 1862. Newgate. Religion Jewish. Married with 3 children. Name and residence of next of kin – Catherine Myers 2 Bell Lane, Spitalfields. Parole – prison licence granted 30 Sep 1865 age 31. In criminal proceedings he says his next of kin is Catherine and she says her son is Henry in the poor law removal so I am pretty sure they are the same person. On marriage to Caroline Henry says his father is Joseph a porter!!!!!!! Catherine says husband was a Henry Myers in poor law removal but it is not clear whether this Henry was Henry’s father.
1838 – Birth of daughter Julia Myers, Middlesex Spitalfields. She is the first of Catherine’s children to be registered. The father is given as Jacob Myers fruit dealer and mother is Catherine Myers formerly Myers. The address fits with the census and marriage records. When she married she says her father was Benjamin. In 1871 Julia Barnett née Myers and family live right near Catherine.
1841 Birth of son Abraham Myers Spitalfields, death unknown. Likely married Matilda Boseman 1961. His birth is registered to Jacob Myers Clothes dealer and Catherine Myers formally Myers. The addresses and Julia’s marriage address fits with the family’s address in 1841. I have not ordered Abraham’s marriage certificate yet to see who the father was.
1862 – Poor law removal order. 1 Frying Pan Alley age 58. I think the order is for her daughter in law Caroline Myers, (Henry’s wife) and their 3 children. Here Catherine says she married a Henry Myers about 30 years ago in Amsterdam, and that her son Henry is cited in the removal. She was in the UK before then as she had Jacob, Aaron and Isaac in the country of the place of birth in the census records are correct, although she could have gone back to Amsterdam to get married.
In the 1851 and 1861 census records her mother Sarah Myers is head of House and also born in Holland. Was Catherine a Myers who married a Myers or was Sarah her mother in law? On Julia and Abraham's birth certificates she says Catherine Myers formally Myers.
It is so very confusing and between Catherine, Isaac and his siblings potential fathers are Benjamin, Isaac, Jacob, Henry and Joseph. Maybe the man who fathered them is not the man who raised them?
If anyone can shed any light on this I would be so greatful as I have been going round in circles for at least 12 months with this!!
I am trying to focus on a) who the father of Isaac was and b) trying to find a piece of concrete evidence (like an apprentice records or other documents) to prove the Isaac in Staffordshire is the same as the one at 1 Frying Pan Alley in 1841.
It is interesting that none of the children named their children Catherine if they were OK in naming children after living relatives.
Thanks so much for reading and for your help.
Best wishes Emma
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Just come across Julia Myers b 1836 married a Henry Barnett 1861 at Great Synagogue which means Ashkenazi.
Ahh thank you, that is really useful to know and will help narrow things down a bit.
Will have another look tomorrow
Thank you so much I really appreciate that, any bit of new information could be a game changer. It is possible brother Abraham married Matilda Boseman/Bosman in 1861 if it was at the Great Synagogue maybe his father is mentioned.
By way father was Benjamin deceased Julias jewish name would be Yetta
Thank you for that, I wonder if Benjamin was never found in the census records because he had to travel with his work or had died in 1841.
Do you happen to know if there Jewish names or alternatives for Catherine and Isaac please?
Thank you for all of your help, I am very grateful.
All the best to you,
Emma
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Hi Emma,
I'm utterly stumped. What a family! Even if we ignore all them bar Issac; he appears to have been very economical with the truth or have a very poor memory.
It will be interesting to see what the 1846 marriage certificate reveals.
I have been trying to decipher the details from the 1851 census entry. Such atrocious handwriting. The first daughter, Ann?, was born in Wolverhampton, but does not appear to have the same surname. It looks like Boyde ... or am I imaging things? The birth of Ann Mayers was recorded in Q2 1846 Wolverhampton. The mother's maiden name was Williams.
Elizabeth "Betsy" Martin, the daughter of confectioner Jacob Martin, was born on 23 Aug 1829 in Peck Lane, Birmingham and baptised on 16 Feb 1830 St. Philip's, Birmingham. I very much doubt that she was Jewish. Isaac junior, therefore, would not have been regarded as a Jew by any of the Jewish communities in the UK at the time. Having a Jewish father wasn't enough. What family stories have been passed down? I would suspect that Isaac senior moved to the Midlands to break from his probable Jewish roots.
I have found a tantalising little titbit. Benjamin Myers married Maria Israel in the Hambro Synagogue on 10 June 1821.
Justin
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Hi Emma,
I'm utterly stumped. What a family! Even if we ignore all them bar Issac; he appears to have been very economical with the truth or have a very poor memory.
It will be interesting to see what the 1846 marriage certificate reveals.
I have been trying to decipher the details from the 1851 census entry. Such atrocious handwriting. The first daughter, Ann?, was born in Wolverhampton, but does not appear to have the same surname. It looks like Boyde ... or am I imaging things? The birth of Ann Mayers was recorded in Q2 1846 Wolverhampton. The mother's maiden name was Williams.
Elizabeth "Betsy" Martin, the daughter of confectioner Jacob Martin, was born on 23 Aug 1829 in Peck Lane, Birmingham and baptised on 16 Feb 1830 St. Philip's, Birmingham. I very much doubt that she was Jewish. Isaac junior, therefore, would not have been regarded as a Jew by any of the Jewish communities in the UK at the time. Having a Jewish father wasn't enough. What family stories have been passed down? I would suspect that Isaac senior moved to the Midlands to break from his probable Jewish roots.
I have found a tantalising little titbit. Benjamin Myers married Maria Israel in the Hambro Synagogue on 10 June 1821.
Justin
Hi Justin,
Thank you very much for looking the above up. The marriage of Benjamin to Maria is interesting thanks for flagging it up to me.
The information is all over the place isn't it and it is hard to make head or tail of. So many conflicting parts. I wonder if he was trying to hide his past as it is so hard to define it.
The 1851 census does have terrible writing doesn't it. I have searched the GRO for Ann Boyde/Boyle and various spellings there of and can't find her to place her. I know that there are some records missing from the GRO index but she seems to be another in a long list of mysteries.
I wondered if perhaps he had married a widow surname Boyde/Boyle and that Ann could be his step daughter but I can't find a relevant marriage. interesting that Ann Mayers 1846 mother was a Williams, Betsy's fathers first wife was a Williams, mind you it is a common name and there maybe no link at all.
Thanks for clearing up Betsy's baptism and therefore faith. I had wondered whether there had been a connection with the Jewish population in Devon where Jacob was born but probably doubtful. Jacob Martin was a confectioner too and I wondered if Isaac might have learnt his trade with him but can find no documentation to prove this. Potential mum Catherine was a fruit dealer and some early writings about confectionary link the two professions. Interestingly in 1841 there is a different Jacob Martin who was a confectioner in Middlesex quite near the Myers family in question and I can't help but wonder if the two Jacobs might have been related. Maybe this is how the Myers and Martins met?? Who knows!
Interesting that son Isaac 1858 probably wouldn't have been considered Jewish by the community. He was baptised and may have been raised a Christian and he married a Christian in a church but relatives who knew him when he was alive have said he wore a Yarmulkie and my great grandmother said we have Jewish ancestry which is the basis for my theory. Perhaps his father stepped away from the faith but he and his son may have retained some of the traditions?
Isaac snrs 1st marriage is a mystery too, there is a marriage of Isaac Myers a tailor who married a Rebecca Costa in 1846 Birmingham, his father was Isaac also a tailor but I don't think it is my Isaac as Isaac and Rebecca appear in census records together over many decades and also this Isaac is with his family in Birmingham in 1841 and his father is a tailor.
I wonder if he really was a widow when he married Betsy, if there was a marriage it must have been between 1846-1849 but I can't find one in any county (he was a journeyman confectioner and could have married any where).
I don't think I will find his first marriage. His last wife was alot younger than him and all 4 wives died which is sad for him. One before 1849, Betsy in Walsall 1871, Sarah in Walsall 1878 and the Margaret in Liverpool 1889. I haven't ordered their death certificates yet.
Isaac snr is so mysterious and gave conflicting information which makes him intriguing and is why I keep going back to him to try and work him out.
I feel like there could be a very interesting story there waiting to be found!
Thank you again for your help.
Best wishes
Emma
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the marriage of Benjamin to Maria that Justin mentioned is in the Marriages as
Benjamin Myers Patronymic Nathman b Baruch b Shlomo M Maria Israel father Isaac Israel
married 10 June 1821
Julias address on marriage was 5 Frying Pan Alley funny bit is her husband Henry Barnett his father is down as Joseph Myers !!
the Abraham Myers that married Matilda(Michia) Bosman his father Was a Benjamin address
3 Dunk St MENT Her father was Levy Levy! marriage 9 March 1862
I cant see any of others in my books
by way it is through the mother that the Jewish line runs so Isaac if he was Benjamin and Maria(Miriam) son would be Jewish but his and Betseys unless she converted may not have been.
sandie
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the marriage of Benjamin to Maria that Justin mentioned is in the Marriages as
Benjamin Myers Patronymic Nathman b Baruch b Shlomo M Maria Israel father Isaac Israel
married 10 June 1821
Julias address on marriage was 5 Frying Pan Alley funny bit is her husband Henry Barnett his father is down as Joseph Myers !!
the Abraham Myers that married Matilda(Michia) Bosman his father Was a Benjamin address
3 Dunk St MENT Her father was Levy Levy! marriage 9 March 1862
I cant see any of others in my books
by way it is through the mother that the Jewish line runs so Isaac if he was Benjamin and Maria(Miriam) son would be Jewish but his and Betseys unless she converted may not have been.
sandie
Hello,
Thanks ever so much for looking that up, now I know that Abraham and Julia give their fathers as Benjamin on marriage. The father is given as Jacob on their birth certificates (if they are the same Abraham and Julia). If this is the same Benjamin that Isaac names then I wonder if he is a sealing wax maker when Julia and Abraham marry?
Either way at least I now have 3 mentions of Benjamin which makes it more likely.
It is possible that Jacob named as the father might have also been known as Benjamin? It is interesting that you mention Dunk Street as there was a confectioner family by the name of Zabell living there around 1840.
"Benjamin Myers Patronymic Nathman b Baruch b Shlomo" I wonder if I might ask for your kind help once again to ask if this sentence might mean something like Benjamin son of Nathman or if Benjamin is also known as Nathman please and how Baruch and Shlomo might fit in? Sorry to have to ask but as you may be able to tell this is a learning curve for me!
That is odd that Henry Barnett should give his father as Joseph Myers, I wish I had a time machine so that I could go and ask them who was related to who!
Gosh Matilda(Michia) Boseman's father was Levy Levy! I wonder if that would be Levy Levy Boseman or if Boseman was her mother's name. I didn't realise that the Jewish line runs through the mother, thank you for telling me. I love to learn new things and this will be very helpful.
The family didn't seem to move far from Frying Pan Alley.
Thanks so much for taking the time to look through the books for me.
I have had a quick look for a Benjamin and Maria in the 1841 census +/- children Isaac, Abraham and Julia but can't find them. I wonder if the Benjamin who married Maria in 1821 was the father of Isaac, Julia and Abraham, maybe Maria is the mother of the older children Jacob, Aaron and Isaac? I am not sure if or how Catherine ties in other than being the mother of Julia and Abraham on their birth certificates (if they are the same Julia and Abraham who say their father was Benjamin when they married). Although she is listed with various young people perhaps some are actually nephews rather than sons or adoptive children.
Lots to think about! Thanks again,
Best wishes
Emma
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According to the records I have, the 1821 marriage was between
Nachman son of Baruch son of Shlomo and Miryam daughter of Ya'acov (not Yitschak, i.e. Isaac)
Benjamin (Nachman) appears to have had two brothers, Abraham and Henry, who married a few years later.
Some Jewish men did have multiple given names, i.e. unrelated given names. Examples from the Great Synagogue marriage register are Benyamin-Chayim or Benyamin-Issachar or Ya'acov-Benyamin-Ezekiel. However, none of the Myers has a Benyamin/Ya'acov combination.
Matilda was the daughter of the cap maker Levy Bosman (b. 1820-24 Rotterdam), who married Elizabeth Phillips in the Great Synagogue on 14 May 1846. Their Hebrew names were Yehuda (known as Leyb) son of Shimshon and Brynah daughter of Pinchas (known as Zelig) the Levite. Levy/Levi was the common secular form of Yehuda-Leyb, such as in Levi Strauss.
Sandie - what does your book say about Julia Myers' father?
More questions ....
Justin
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Hi Justin
Julia Myers husband is down as Henry Barnett father Joseph Myers(dec) at end of info it does have a ? Grooms father
I looked at the entry for Henry which says same his patronymic says Zvi b Joseph
Henrys age is down as 30 and Julia as 24
I couldn't see a birth in the books I have at all.
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This is a fascinating post my uncles grandmother was a Esther Myers that left Stepney for Newcastle upon Tyne around 1914 we done some research and all names fit thanks David.
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Hi Justin
Julia Myers husband is down as Henry Barnett father Joseph Myers(dec) at end of info it does have a ? Grooms father
I looked at the entry for Henry which says same his patronymic says Zvi b Joseph
Henrys age is down as 30 and Julia as 24
I couldn't see a birth in the books I have at all.
Thank you very much for looking that up. There was a Barnett family in Frying pan alley that were fish fryers. It seems that everyone who lived there is hard to match up!
I appreciate your help.
Best wishes
Emma
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According to the records I have, the 1821 marriage was between
Nachman son of Baruch son of Shlomo and Miryam daughter of Ya'acov (not Yitschak, i.e. Isaac)
Benjamin (Nachman) appears to have had two brothers, Abraham and Henry, who married a few years later.
Some Jewish men did have multiple given names, i.e. unrelated given names. Examples from the Great Synagogue marriage register are Benyamin-Chayim or Benyamin-Issachar or Ya'acov-Benyamin-Ezekiel. However, none of the Myers has a Benyamin/Ya'acov combination.
Matilda was the daughter of the cap maker Levy Bosman (b. 1820-24 Rotterdam), who married Elizabeth Phillips in the Great Synagogue on 14 May 1846. Their Hebrew names were Yehuda (known as Leyb) son of Shimshon and Brynah daughter of Pinchas (known as Zelig) the Levite. Levy/Levi was the common secular form of Yehuda-Leyb, such as in Levi Strauss.
Sandie - what does your book say about Julia Myers' father?
More questions ....
Justin
Hi Justin,
Thanks very much for this information as there are lots of new leads to try.
Shame there is no Benjamin Isaac combinations that you could find as that would have tied things together!
I don't know whether to give up on the Isaac 1829 living with Catherine as although this is the most likely fit and I have been working on that theory for a very long time I can't seem to tie Benjamin and Catherine together at all, unless Miryam daughter of Ya'acov was also known as Catherine?
I can't find a Benjamin and Miryam in the census records for 1841/51/61. There is a family in Yorkshire who could fit the bill but in 1841 they were born in the County and in 1851 and 1861 they say they were born in a Yorkshire village so unlikely and in this case this Benjamin's wife was Mary.
I decided to look into Benjamin's brothers Abraham and Henry. It looks like Henry could have been a trader and moved between the UK and US. There is a Henry son of Benjamin (Shlomo I guess?) who got the freedom of the city in 1836). So was Shlomo known as Benjamin I wonder?
The interesting one is Abraham. At the moment it looks like he lived in Ebenezer Sq, a stones throw from Frying Pan Alley and he was a carver and gilder. He had children including Benjamin and Julia. In a later census he says he was a picture dealer and an Abraham son of Benjamin, a picture dealer, was given the freedom of the city in 1835. Maybe he carved and gilded picture frames. There is no freedom of the city for a Benjamin son of Benjamin though.
This is the interesting bit, I have found a Bethlem admission for a Catherine Mayers 17 March 1831, a Jewish lady who was suffering from a mental illness after eating in public when she should have been fasting after having her 5th child (likely Henry if it is the 1841 Catherine). Standing surity was Abraham Mayers of 20 Ebenezer Sq, Gravel Lane, Houndsditch a carver and guilder - could this be Benjamin's brother Abraham son of Baruch son of Shlomo?
The only fly in the ointment is that the other surity was Emmanuel Mayers of Lowe or Love court, Middlesex St, whitechapel, a carver and guilder NOT Benjamin! In the document it says the husband was from 41 Middlesex St a carver and guilder, was 41 Lowe/Love Court?
If the husband was Emmanuel is it possible that Benjamin was also known as Emmanuel?? Is Emmanuel a common Jewish name? Also Isaac says his father was a sealing wax maker at 3 of his weddings (he gives his father as Benjamin and then Isaac twice but the father's job never changed). Is sealing wax part of the guiding process?
I guess I need to try and find out if the Benjamin and Miryam who married in 1821 went by any other name (like Emmanuel and Catherine!!). I can find Benjamin's brothers in 1841 and 1851 (and even Emmanuel who was not living with a Catherine by this stage maybe she died or they seperated) but I can't find Benjamin and Miryam.
The plot thickens!! Thank you very much for the additional leads, I will continue to look into them.
Best wishes
Emma
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This is a fascinating post my uncles grandmother was a Esther Myers that left Stepney for Newcastle upon Tyne around 1914 we done some research and all names fit thanks David.
That is really interesting, thanks for your post. Do you know who Esther descends from in the list of candidates we have been discussing please? I am just wondering whether her father did anything to do with the confectionary /sugar trade?
Best wishes Emma
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Esthers the daughter of Abraham Myers and Matilda bosman .Esther is living in Stepney before she comes north her address is skidmore Street on the 1911 census she married 1st husband is a Charles Sayers’s he dies 1906 then she marries Charles brother Walter.
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Just a quick one myriam is same name as mary
Be back later on other bits
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Esthers the daughter of Abraham Myers and Matilda bosman .Esther is living in Stepney before she comes north her address is skidmore Street on the 1911 census she married 1st husband is a Charles Sayers’s he dies 1906 then she marries Charles brother Walter.
Hi,
Ahh I see, thanks very much for getting back to me and for the information.
Ask the best to you,
Emma
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Just a quick one myriam is same name as mary
Be back later on other bits
Hi there,
That's great, thanks for letting me know. The only Benjamin and Mary combinations I can find are up in Yorkshire in 1841 but they could have just been away on census night.
I found an Emanuel as mentioned in Catherine Mayers Bethlam admission in 1841 living not far from Abraham the carver and gilder, not sure if there are any connections though and whether they tie into said Benjamin or whether Benjamin and Maria/Myriam
/Mary are the parents of Isaac 1829 as of yet though.
Thanks again for you help, I appreciate it.
Best wishes Emma
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emma you asked
So was Shlomo known as Benjamin I wonder? Shlomo is jewish name for Solomom
Benjamin isnt very different in hebrew Binyamīm.
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emma you asked
So was Shlomo known as Benjamin I wonder? Shlomo is jewish name for Solomom
Benjamin isnt very different in hebrew Binyamīm.
Hello,
Thank you very much for explaining that to me, it is really helpful.
I hope you have a lovely weekend.
All the best,
Emma
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Hello again,
Going back to a couple of questions you raised, Emma, in earlier posts.
Emmanuel (or Immanuel) is a Hebrew name meaning "God is with us". Judging by the marriage register of the Great Synagogue, it was not particularly common (76 grooms in 4300 marriages). Moreover, it was used exclusively as a secular name; the men usually having the Hebrew name Menachem.
In the 18 years that I have been doing Jewish genealogy, I have not come across a man with the Hebrew name Shlomo using the secular name Benjamin. The GS records report 114 grooms called Shlomo. Over 90% were known by the secular name Solomon, none by the name Benjamin.
Sealing wax was presumably the wax used to seal letters; not part of the guilding process.
All the best, Justin
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Emma,
Here are few more couples that are worth investigating. All married in the Great Synagogue.
1840 Matilda Myers (Hebr. Mata d/o Binyamin known as Volf) and Moses Moses (Her. Mosheh s.o Shmuel known as Zanvil)
1847 Sarah Myers (Hebr. Sarah d/o Binyamin) and Joseph Charles Jacobs (Hebr. Yosef-Nachma s/o Ya'acov)
1851 Henry Myers (Hebr. Tsvi known as Hirsh s/o Binyamin, known as Volf, the Levite) and Rebecca Dowsing (Hebr. Rebkah d/o Abraham, our father - meaning that she was illegitimate)
I won't go into the reasons here, but a lot of men with the Hebrew name Binyamin were known as Wolf.
From the birth register of the New Synagogue:
1830 Henry Myers (Hebr. Tsvi s/o Binyamin s/o Yoel)
1833 Matilda Myers (Merle d/o Binyamin s/o Yoel)
The family address was High Street, Borough. Wrong part of London, but who knows where they were before 1830.
Added: Benjamin Myers of Borough was a tailor and draper.
Justin
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Hello again,
Going back to a couple of questions you raised, Emma, in earlier posts.
Emmanuel (or Immanuel) is a Hebrew name meaning "God is with us". Judging by the marriage register of the Great Synagogue, it was not particularly common (76 grooms in 4300 marriages). Moreover, it was used exclusively as a secular name; the men usually having the Hebrew name Menachem.
In the 18 years that I have been doing Jewish genealogy, I have not come across a man with the Hebrew name Shlomo using the secular name Benjamin. The GS records report 114 grooms called Shlomo. Over 90% were known by the secular name Solomon, none by the name Benjamin.
Sealing wax was presumably the wax used to seal letters; not part of the guilding process.
All the best, Justin
Hello Justin,
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.
Thank you for explaining the meaning of the name Emmanuel and that people usually have the name Menachem, I guess this excludes Emmanuel husband of Catherine admitted to Bedlam as being a candidate for Benjamin which is helpful. It is also helpful to know know that there is not likely to be a Solomon who was also known as Benjamin as it narrows down my field of possibles.
The fact that Isaac snr states on 3 marriage certificates that his father was a sealing wax maker has lead me looking for all sorts of possibilities of where sealing wax could be applied to see if there is a Benjamin Myers with a linked trade such as tallow chandler (as I can't find a Benjamin Myers sealing wax maker in the census records). Interestingly there is an Edward Myers in St James', a master tallow chandler (and member of the guild) who went bankrupt in 1787 (I never found him to have a son called Benjamin though looking at the conventional records). As Isaac and his son Issac were in the confectionary trade I had wondered whether wax was used to seal confectionary products and investiagted that in the hope I might find some glimmer of hope!!!! Maybe liquid molasses when bottled were sealed with wax? Who knows.
I did find a Levi Myers in 1841 in St James Juke with his family in 1841 and he was a confectioner and cook si I guess he is another person to investigate!
Many thanks for your help.
Best wishes, Emma
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Emma,
Here are few more couples that are worth investigating. All married in the Great Synagogue.
1840 Matilda Myers (Hebr. Mata d/o Binyamin known as Volf) and Moses Moses (Her. Mosheh s.o Shmuel known as Zanvil)
1847 Sarah Myers (Hebr. Sarah d/o Binyamin) and Joseph Charles Jacobs (Hebr. Yosef-Nachma s/o Ya'acov)
1851 Henry Myers (Hebr. Tsvi known as Hirsh s/o Binyamin, known as Volf, the Levite) and Rebecca Dowsing (Hebr. Rebkah d/o Abraham, our father - meaning that she was illegitimate)
I won't go into the reasons here, but a lot of men with the Hebrew name Binyamin were known as Wolf.
From the birth register of the New Synagogue:
1830 Henry Myers (Hebr. Tsvi s/o Binyamin s/o Yoel)
1833 Matilda Myers (Merle d/o Binyamin s/o Yoel)
The family address was High Street, Borough. Wrong part of London, but who knows where they were before 1830.
Added: Benjamin Myers of Borough was a tailor and draper.
Justin
Hello Justin,
Thanks so much for these additional people to investigate, you never know who might lead you somewhere.
I think I read about a Benjamin Myers in the British Newspaper Archives who was a tailor and accidently injured a child by riding his horse and cart 'furiously' down Oxford Street. I wonder if it is the same man who you mention above!
I will investigate these people and take a look for them in the census records to see what I can find. I will also look into the name Wolf as I have seen a few Wolf Myers, thanks for letting me know there is a connection with the name Benjamin.
It is nice to have hope of the possibility of finding something after banging my head against a brick wall for so long!!
Best wishes, Emma