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General => The Stay Safe Board => Topic started by: CaroleW on Sunday 10 May 20 01:54 BST (UK)

Title: General discussion on current situation
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 10 May 20 01:54 BST (UK)
I heard that Blackpool was heaving today so I dread to think what's going to happen if any restrictions are eased.  The death toll is still far too high for my liking and with the 10-14 day incubation period for this virus I think another 2 weeks of restrictions would not be that unreasonable.

My neighbour was in shock on Thursday.  He is an engineer and his workplace have been staggering shifts to ensure distancing.  A colleague was sent home sick last Saturday, he was on a ventilator by Monday and died Wednesday.  Confirmed Coronavirus as cause of death

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 10 May 20 12:16 BST (UK)
I heard about the situation in Blackpool via my friend whose daughter works at Blackpool Victoria hospital.   She and her partner, who also works at the hospital, live near the beach & were on their usual daily walk.  They were so angry seeing the numbers of people having barbecues and socialising close to each other as both have seen people dying from the virus in recent weeks and know how devastating it can be. 

Whilst I’m sure it would have come anyway - Boris’s announcement on Monday 30th March came after newspaper publications of people on Sunday 29th March behaving in similar fashion to yesterday.   

Let’s see what happens after todays announcement



Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Sunday 10 May 20 15:45 BST (UK)
I must admit I don't "do" the "Thursday clap" - a friend says it sounds like a rather nasty social illness, and I really can't see it helps.
I suppose that the "75 years after" emphasis was because, with the best will in the world, by five years hence, at 80 years, there is almost no chance of any active armed forces participants still being alive.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Roobarb on Sunday 10 May 20 19:52 BST (UK)

IF an increase of the virus cases occurs it can only mean a return to or more in the lockdown procedure, depending on what Mr. Johnson has instore for us later today.


As you anticipated, Boris has said exactly that.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 10 May 20 20:09 BST (UK)
Have to make this the "Be alert" thread now after Johnson's broadcast tonight.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Monday 11 May 20 15:29 BST (UK)
As if the death toll in Care Homes wasn't horrific enough

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-52608455

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: dowdstree on Monday 11 May 20 15:43 BST (UK)
Indeed the number of poor people dying in Care Homes is awful.

I know of 3 people who have died recently of Covid 19 in Care Homes. Two were a parent of my son's friends and the other was my step daughter's father in law. No family had been allowed to visit them  for weeks so sadly were not with them when they passed away.

This was in Scotland

Dorrie

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: mazi on Monday 11 May 20 16:03 BST (UK)
It is just possible the residents may have enjoyed themselves in their last months of life,
They have rights to make personal decisions, they are technically one household.

Mike
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BumbleB on Wednesday 13 May 20 17:34 BST (UK)
Not sure about this - I have been making a note of the official hospital death figures for the UK as reported by BBC.  And I have been looking at the newly reported case figures for my postcode (county of Staffordshire):

8 May:  626 deaths, 1934 new cases
9 May:  346 deaths, 1949 new cases
10 May:  269 deaths, 1961 new cases
11 May:  210 deaths, 1979 new cases
12 May: 627 deaths, 1988 new cases
13 May: 494 deaths - new cases for Staffordshire not yet available until tomorrow

Should we really be easing lockdown?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Jomot on Wednesday 13 May 20 18:30 BST (UK)
The hospital deaths announced by the BBC (and others) are just that - those announced that particular day, with the announcement often coming some time after the actual death.

Spreadsheets containing the daily hospital deaths announced for England (only) broken down by date of death are on the NHS England website, and show a different picture.

For example, of the 244 hospital deaths announced today (England only), 60 happened more than a week ago - the oldest being 27th March.

The 627 you refer to was 'all settings' for the whole of the UK - hospital deaths accounted for 374 of these, and again, a significant proportion of those happened at least a week earlier.

Transmission in the general population is now reasonably under control - care homes are another matter.....
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Roobarb on Wednesday 13 May 20 20:39 BST (UK)
I've had a look at the spreadsheet and have found it much more useful than the figures bandied about in the press. Thanks for pointing it out Jomot.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Jomot on Wednesday 13 May 20 20:51 BST (UK)
I've had a look at the spreadsheet and have found it much more useful than the figures bandied about in the press. Thanks for pointing it out Jomot.

Glad you found them useful.

I have this and a few other of the official ones bookmarked, and must admit that since I started reading those rather than just listening to the daily broadcasts I feel much less worried about my friends & family in general, with the notable exceptions of my father (88) and uncle (96).
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: dowdstree on Wednesday 13 May 20 21:13 BST (UK)
There is one on the Scottish Government website too which gives the corresponding information for Scotland.

Very useful and informative.

Dorrie
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: sonofthom on Tuesday 19 May 20 08:09 BST (UK)
It most certainly not money before people; this is not an either/or situation. With UK unemployment (not furlough) now over 2 million this lockdown is having a devastating affect on many families. This has a direct and almost certainly long term impact on health and mortality and there is now ample evidence to believe that the negative impacts of the lockdown will be far greater than those of the virus itself.

If you are terrified of the virus then by all means continue to remain apart from other people but you should not seek to impose continuing lockdown on the rest of us who are able to take a more balanced view.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BushInn1746 on Tuesday 19 May 20 10:08 BST (UK)
It most certainly not money before people; this is not an either/or situation. With UK unemployment (not furlough) now over 2 million this lockdown is having a devastating affect on many families. This has a direct and almost certainly long term impact on health and mortality and there is now ample evidence to believe that the negative impacts of the lockdown will be far greater than those of the virus itself.

If you are terrified of the virus then by all means continue to remain apart from other people but you should not seek to impose continuing lockdown on the rest of us who are able to take a more balanced view.

Being sedentary (inactive) and neurological aging of the elderly might be a factor or a contributory factor for many Care Home deaths.

I agree with Social Distancing when we are out daily and Hygiene.

Hand Washing is now critical after using the Toilet and before Eating because Medical Reports from Abroad show Non-Respiratory Covid-19 has been found in the Human gut and other organs.

At the end of the day, there has always been a risk when leaving home e.g. road collision. Even falling down stairs at home has caused death.

Specialists will likely form various opinions over the coming years.

Mark
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: youngtug on Tuesday 19 May 20 10:13 BST (UK)



https://www.businessinsider.com/what-san-francisco-can-learn-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus-1918?r=US&IR=T
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Redroger on Tuesday 19 May 20 10:29 BST (UK)
And who is likely to come out of this wealthier than when it all started? The wealthiest. And to come out of it dead? The health workers. If they have no been expelled as unskilled migrants by the society that claps them every Thursday.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: dowdstree on Tuesday 19 May 20 10:51 BST (UK)
You are spot on Redroger and I couldn't agree more.

News headline this morning "Ryanair boss blasts U.K.'s idiotic 14 day quarantine plan". We should have been doing this way back at the start of the outbreak. He comes under the category of wealthy.

Another headline claims a leaked Public Health England Document states that Temporary Care Workers spread the virus moving from home to home to cover staff who were sick. Most of these workers are on a minimum wage and amongst this country's poorest paid. There has been a high death rate amongst these care workers.

Society should be ashamed of itself.

Dorrie
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BushInn1746 on Tuesday 19 May 20 11:10 BST (UK)



https://www.businessinsider.com/what-san-francisco-can-learn-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus-1918?r=US&IR=T

Looking Abroad some tested were Coronavirus positive a 2nd time during Lockdown.
 ----------
The human blood is known to thicken due to Coronavirus and the heart muscle is attacked in some sufferers.

Personally, we are not immuno suppressed and as we have semi rural walks (within walking distance) with mild / sunny weather we are going with daily exercise (with Social Distancing) and drinking plenty of fluid and getting proper sleep at night, while we can.

In the West everyone is free to make their own choice.

However, there is UK Expert opinion Covid-19 will possibly be back this Winter anyway along with our usual UK Winter Influenza. It will be too late then, to improve our fitness for Mrs H and I.

Mark

Added: We'll be flying nowhere.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Redroger on Tuesday 19 May 20 11:19 BST (UK)
IF we are very lucky and there is a viable vaccine available by September as mooted it is possible that it could be included in the flu vaccination and hopefully put this horror behind us (until the next surfaces)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 19 May 20 11:51 BST (UK)

News headline this morning "Ryanair boss blasts U.K.'s idiotic 14 day quarantine plan". We should have been doing this way back at the start of the outbreak. He comes under the category of wealthy.


I saw a report that Michael O'Leary said most people will ignore the quarantine. How will the government enforce it, or will it be more "advice". My brother is due to go on a business trip to an EU country in 3 months. (Planned last autumn as part of a several year project). His employer has said if 14 day quarantine is still in place by then, he has to take the 14 days after he returns to UK out of his annual leave.
If it was a holiday - fair enough, but when his employer is sending him abroad, I think it's outrageous. He has had to go into his workplace almost every day through the so called lockdown, even though he could do quite a lot from home. 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Tuesday 19 May 20 15:24 BST (UK)
Jillrus, really like the "Whalemeat again". My father always hated that, and said it dragged on, and he could never decide if the orchestra was slowing down for her, or she was slowing down for the orchestra!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: jillruss on Tuesday 19 May 20 15:27 BST (UK)
Jillrus, really like the "Whalemeat again". My father always hated that, and said it dragged on, and he could never decide if the orchestra was slowing down for her, or she was slowing down for the orchestra!

My dad always called it 'a miserable dirge'!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Tuesday 19 May 20 15:30 BST (UK)
So did mine. (He was musical)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Roobarb on Tuesday 19 May 20 15:52 BST (UK)
I don't like the 'Whalemeat' either!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: jillruss on Tuesday 19 May 20 17:29 BST (UK)
So did mine. (He was musical)

My dad played the drums when he was in the RAF during the war - not sure if that makes him musical!! He was more into Glenn Miller, Count Basie etc, which I associate with those times much more than Dreary Lynn and her nasal voice - but each to their own.

Sorry you didn't like Whalemeat, Roobarb, its just what I've always known it as!!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Roobarb on Tuesday 19 May 20 17:56 BST (UK)
I meant I don't like the song! The name gave me such a laugh!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Redroger on Tuesday 19 May 20 17:58 BST (UK)

News headline this morning "Ryanair boss blasts U.K.'s idiotic 14 day quarantine plan". We should have been doing this way back at the start of the outbreak. He comes under the category of wealthy.


I saw a report that Michael O'Leary said most people will ignore the quarantine. How will the government enforce it, or will it be more "advice". My brother is due to go on a business trip to an EU country in 3 months. (Planned last autumn as part of a several year project). His employer has said if 14 day quarantine is still in place by then, he has to take the 14 days after he returns to UK out of his annual leave.
If it was a holiday - fair enough, but when his employer is sending him abroad, I think it's outrageous. He has had to go into his workplace almost every day through the so called lockdown, even though he could do quite a lot from home.
He has a statutory right to join a trade union and get the legal protection he is entitled to.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 19 May 20 18:06 BST (UK)
Can you only get legal protection if you belong to a trade union?.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Redroger on Tuesday 19 May 20 20:32 BST (UK)
Can you only get legal protection if you belong to a trade union?.
No! But the costs are prohibitive to an individual. If you are wealthy enough to go to law, you are usually the one who is doing the kicking, NOT the victim. Everyone has access to the law, if they can afford it!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: rayard on Wednesday 20 May 20 14:27 BST (UK)
I was looking out of the bedroom window, a man was walking by, he stopped and coughed then spat on the pavement outside my house. Later on my walk I noticed a lot of chewing gum "lumps" by the bus stop. Together with all the discarded masks and gloves and dog mess the pavements don't feel safe! I use a walker like Sir Tom, I feel the need to clean the wheels before I come back in, I already change shoes anyway.
rayard.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 20 May 20 18:14 BST (UK)

Hand Washing is now critical after using the Toilet and before Eating because Medical Reports from Abroad show Non-Respiratory Covid-19 has been found in the Human gut and other organs.

That's not the only reason for washing hands. Why do people need to be told to wash their hands after  visiting toilet? Answer must be because some lack common-sense.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 20 May 20 18:35 BST (UK)
Quote from: Redroger link=topic=831303.msg6956613#msg6956613 date=1589907489
He has a statutory right to join a trade union and get the legal protection he is entitled to.
[/quote
Every worker should join a union imo.
There should also be more health & safety inspectors.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Wednesday 20 May 20 19:07 BST (UK)
I'm absolutely horrified at what the children who do go back to school on June 1st will be expected to do. I was sent a letter from a friend who has a child in Year 6.

They will be in "bubbles" of 8 to 10 children and an adult and must stay with them all the time. Social distancing in classrooms so no sitting or talking with friends. Nothing from home to be brought in, including packed lunch, that will be supplied by the school. Staggered arrival and leaving school, staggered playtimes where they will be required to stay in a limited space, no ball games or anything that involves contact. No computers as that would mean sharing. Only lessons will be Maths, English and PSHE.
Remember this is the time when year 6 would normally be relaxing after SATs, going on school trips, practicing  for end of term plays and visiting Secondary schools.

Even worse for Reception and Year 1 - small groups, no movement around the room or free play. No toys, sand, play dough etc. Adults not to bend down to talk to children or to touch them unless an emergency. If a child falls over or has an "accident" adults will be expected to put on PPE before dealing with it. Playtimes will be segregated as well into small groups and children not allowed on climbing frames etc. Because of the space in the school they will only be allowed to attend 2 days a week so groups A and B two days and groups C and D another 2. No parents allowed in the school.

I know all those are very necessary for the health of the children and adults, but they would be far better waiting and going back in September. I hate to think what it is going to do to the very young ones - put them off school for life!

As it was made clear it was parents' choice, my friend has decided her son won't be going back.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 20 May 20 20:32 BST (UK)
Some young children are already becoming anxious about meeting people.
Are children in Reception class 4-5 years?
Perhaps schools are following the example of segregated prisons in 19th century where each prisoner had his own cell and wasn't allowed contact with other inmates. Some left prison with mental problems.
Some local authorities in northern England are reluctant to open schools.
Scottish school term ends late June and new school year begins mid-August. Nicola Sturgeon is setting out a Plan tomorrow.   
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 20 May 20 20:38 BST (UK)
Today - a week-day!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-52742519

Is everyone still on holiday? - I mean furlough
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 20 May 20 21:16 BST (UK)
Today - a week-day!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-52742519

Is everyone still on holiday? - I mean furlough

Perhaps if there had been better communication between central and local government a fortnight ago?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Thursday 21 May 20 07:26 BST (UK)
And in Scotland hwere the rules haven't been relaxed

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-52747041

No-one fined ! So they laugh at the police and do it again today
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Thursday 21 May 20 15:48 BST (UK)
The aftermath of yesterday's day trippers

from Scarborough:

https://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/news/environment/councillors-condemn-litter-left-south-bay-after-influx-people-beach-hot-weather-2860737

Tynemouth
https://www.facebook.com/bigfriendofthedevil/posts/10157493142417677

Exmouth
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-devon-52668816

What is the matter with some people?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: IgorStrav on Thursday 21 May 20 16:10 BST (UK)
The most awful thing is finding yourself thinking that there'll be a surge in infections after some people thinking they are ok to relax the social distancing disciplines,

which will 'serve them right' and then realising that this isn't

NUMBERS,

it's PEOPLE and

MOTHERS/FATHERS/GRANDPARENTS/CHILDREN

and of course the knock on effect on the NHS and its workers.

The only thing to do is to continue to self-distance yourself insofar as you can, and encourage others to do so, and to continue taking every precaution with regard to cleaning/washing your hands etc.

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Thursday 21 May 20 23:25 BST (UK)
I wonder how many of those sunbathing on crowded beaches yesterday, went outside tonight at 8pm to clap the NHS and key workers? Let's hope that in a week or so time they don't need their services. It must be dreadful for all the hospital workers, who are finally seeing ICU beds being freed up, to realise that because of the thoughtlessness and selfishness of some people they may soon be full again.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 22 May 20 13:09 BST (UK)
And it's not just litter the day trippers leave

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-52760735

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: jillruss on Friday 22 May 20 15:41 BST (UK)
I think we can deduce that the lockdown is all but over, given the number of people congregating in different places these past few days - mostly because there was a bit of sunshine. No doubt, weather permitting, it will be repeated this next Bank Holiday (another one?!) weekend.

I don't know why Boris & co are bothering any more. Why worry about whether schools should be re-opened or not if all the little darlings have just been taken for an away day to the seaside to socially un-distance from hundreds of others?

I'm still staying at home, partly because I don't 'do' crowds and partly because I'm of an age and existing condition to take precautions. I'm sitting at my computer with the windows open and I can hear children (who should normally be in school) playing football and screaming (don't you just love other people's children?!!) and quite a few more voices as people pass under my window. A week or so ago it was so peaceful you could hear the birds singing and not much else. I liked it! I'm seriously thinking of becoming a Greta Thunberg convert!!

Bring back lockdown, I say!   ;)

Seriously, its over - accept it, Boris, and move on. People didn't take to 'being alert' because they're only really bothered about themselves and what they're doing - no one else. Except, of course, most of them will make a show of doing the Thursday Clap (that well known disease, loved that description!). Most of these people with the clap just want to be noticed: e.g. a neighbour of mine who often makes a show of bringing a ruddy great horsebox into this very small cul de sac, has a rainbow style placard outside her house made up of different coloured rosettes that she's presumably won for her horsiness. It says 'thanks' at the top but that's presumably 'thanks for the excuse to show off'.

Let us more vulnerable but sensible beings carry on 'staying safe' and lets all stand back and see what happens in a couple of weeks time. The virus will either be gone or be back with a vengeance and, if the latter, we can start this particular dance all over again. Who knows?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Friday 22 May 20 16:26 BST (UK)
Glad you appreciated my "Thursday Clap", Jillruss
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BumbleB on Friday 22 May 20 16:39 BST (UK)
You may be pleased to know that the instigator of "Clap for Carers", Annemarie Plas, thinks that it has now had it's day, and that next Thursday should be the last one.   :'( :'(

Not sure whether the NHS is expecting a surge in cases.  I've just received a letter cancelling my out-patient appointment - "Due to the current climate we are expecting a high volume of inpatient care at this Trust and following the advice from Public Health England to all Trusts, it is with regret that we need to cancel your appointment ..."
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 22 May 20 16:47 BST (UK)
Here, the Isle of Man borders remain closed for the forseeable future.

We have 23 deaths - 19 of them unfortunately at a single care home.
Only 1 new case this week.
And only 9 active cases.

- 'Lifestyle businesses' such as hairdressers, barbers and tattoo artists will be able to reopen from 1 June, provided they follow government guidance.

- Also from the 1 June, cafes and restaurants will be able to open 'outdoor areas' to customers, provided it's safe to so, with government set to issue further advice for this industry.

- People can visit friends and relatives, outdoors, in groups of 10 or less.

- groups of no more than 2 people may visit somebody else's home.

- With immediate effect, trades such as physiotherapy and podiatry can restart, provided they have appropriate PPE and risk assessments.


So, we are getting there.
I think borders will only reopen once the situation in the UK is deemed to be "under control"?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Friday 22 May 20 16:52 BST (UK)
It's OK, all our troubles are over. Ikea are opening on 1st June  ::)

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: jillruss on Friday 22 May 20 16:59 BST (UK)
Glad you appreciated my "Thursday Clap", Jillruss

I loved it! I tried to give you a mention but couldn't find where I'd read it!

I think the point about all these 'you can't do this' but 'you can do that's and however many people you can or can't do it with, is all going by the board. Very few people are taking any notice. Hairdressers, and tattoo artists? Hardly essential, are they? I can't think of many more things totally 'un-distant'.

If they want to do this tracing and tracking thing properly, they should take note of anyone who gets sick after a 'social un-distancing' day at the seaside and put them to the bottom of the list for intensive care!  See if they clap for that!!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Friday 22 May 20 18:46 BST (UK)
I see they are now talking about easing the lockdown first in London. Does that mean The City or Greater London. Imagine what that will mean as well, people from outside London flooding in to restaurants and bars.

Then there is the quarantine for those coming in - why wait until the 8th of June! Also as has been pointed out anyone can arrive, travel into London by tube, train, bus or coach and infect people on there before going into quarantine. Who is going to do all the checking as well to ensure they are sticking to it? Local police?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 22 May 20 19:02 BST (UK)
We locked down early - all borders closed!
And borders are still closed.

14 day isolation for any repatriations. Initially in a country hotel, but now allowed anywhere not shared with other people.

It's working for us ;D ;D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Rena on Friday 22 May 20 19:17 BST (UK)

 I've just received a letter cancelling my out-patient appointment - "Due to the current climate we are expecting a high volume of inpatient care at this Trust and following the advice from Public Health England to all Trusts, it is with regret that we need to cancel your appointment ..."

Coincidentally, today I received a letter informing me that I have an appointment during the first week in July to see the eye specialist who performed a catarract operation at the start of the year. 

I don't think my immune system has been topped up these last few weeks because my offspring have been guarding me against any outside movement - one even driving from another town to leave groceries, etc. that he believes I need,  on my doorstep.  As he would have to drive me to/from the "local" hospital in a distant town, I doubt he would agree to do it.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Friday 22 May 20 19:24 BST (UK)

14 day isolation for any repatriations. Initially in a country hotel, but now allowed anywhere not shared with other people.

It's working for us ;D ;D

Yes, if it was isolation in a hotel that might work, but they are going to be allowed anywhere. The plan is people should be encouraged to get for the airport to where they are staying by car, but if not, they can use public transport!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 22 May 20 19:30 BST (UK)
Just to add: From 1st June I will be able to get a hair cut ;D ;D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Friday 22 May 20 19:32 BST (UK)
Just to add: From 1st June I will be able to get a hair cut ;D ;D

Envy!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 22 May 20 19:55 BST (UK)
Hairdressers, and tattoo artists? Hardly essential, are they? I can't think of many more things totally 'un-distant'.

Hairdressers in Scotland unlikely to open for a while yet. They are scheduled to resume business during Phase 3 of the 4 phases moving from lockdown to near normality. Scottish Gov. expects to move to Phase 1 on 28th May. https://www.gov.scot/publications/?cat=filter&page=2
Tattoo artists are among the most inessential businesses I can think of.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: pharmaT on Friday 22 May 20 21:52 BST (UK)
I ahve already decided that I will not be rushing to the hairdressers when they reopen, it will be a nightmare getting an appointment and I can't be bothered with it.  As soon as I get my hands on my hair after my first wash the benefits of the appointment are at least 50% gone as I'm so bad at it.

They are reopening our tip on 15th June I'm waiting to July as I predict  lots of long queues another thing I both can't be bothered with and have so much else I need to do.  I won't be going to the pub when it reopens as it doesn't feel safe (didn't really go to the pub anyway).
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Mckha489 on Friday 22 May 20 22:30 BST (UK)
I went to our tip second day after opening. They had said on website they were going to be directing traffic, please be patient etc etc. 
off I went, orange cones stopped my entry from the direction I was coming, had to go past and turn around came back went in.  There were the grand total of three cars. Less than an on a normal busy day without orange cones.  And usually we go out by the entrance, but they have rigged up an alternate exit so it’s much better. I am hoping they realise and keep it that way!

Except for the lack of tourist buses and camper vans (which is going to have a HUGE effect on the town as we have so many eating places for them) town felt almost like normal. The only obvious signs are the bottles of sanitiser in all the doorways, and QR codes starting to be put up on doors for our contact tracing app. It’s a small town, only about 8000 population, so it’s not jam packed in the streets at any time (except perhaps the Christmas parade).

It wouldn’t surprise me if the hand sanitiser became a permanent fixture, you can see people really like the idea, and if as they say is likely the virus becomes part of the back ground disease burden improved hygiene is going to be our only defence isn’t it. 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Skoosh on Friday 22 May 20 22:40 BST (UK)
Once my clippers arrive from Hong Kong it'll be a much needed "Coos Lick!"  ;D

Skoosh.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 22 May 20 23:14 BST (UK)
Just to add: From 1st June I will be able to get a hair cut ;D ;D

Envy!

Ditto  ::) ;D ;D

Carol
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Maiden Stone on Friday 22 May 20 23:51 BST (UK)
I'm with pharma reply 53 on all counts. People going to tip here will have to take proof of residence. Only 1 person allowed to get out of car. No heavy items as staff won't assist.
Even when the recycling depot in my area operated normally, inconsiderate people dumped stuff nearby. I dread to think what it's like now.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 23 May 20 06:59 BST (UK)
OH and I have both had our hair cut - he cut mine, and I cut his  :)  We're usually away on holiday at this time of the year and we invested in a set of clippers some years ago so that we could still appear fairly neat and tidy throughout our stay on the campsite.  They were resurrected earlier this week.  :)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Skoosh on Saturday 23 May 20 07:07 BST (UK)
True, Scottish Tory MSP used his chance to question the First Minister the other day, in the midst of this great pandemic, to ask her what provision was being made to take croquet out of the lockdown?  ;D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Guy Etchells on Saturday 23 May 20 09:10 BST (UK)

They are reopening our tip on 15th June I'm waiting to July as I predict  lots of long queues another thing I both can't be bothered with and have so much else I need to do.  I won't be going to the pub when it reopens as it doesn't feel safe (didn't really go to the pub anyway).

Our tip has been open for about a week and everyday there has been a half mile line of cars queuing up to go in. I have been past at various times of the day and the queue never seems to get less.
Normally even at weekends there is seldom a queue beyond the tip gates.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 23 May 20 09:15 BST (UK)
True, Scottish Tory MSP used his chance to question the First Minister the other day, in the midst of this great pandemic, to ask her what provision was being made to take croquet out of the lockdown?  ;D

As a croquet player myself, I find this of the utmost importance! ;D ;D

On a more serious note, if golf and tennis are OK to play, why not croquet?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Saturday 23 May 20 09:41 BST (UK)
Probably not played by enough MPs to warrant their attention
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 23 May 20 13:59 BST (UK)
True, Scottish Tory MSP used his chance to question the First Minister the other day, in the midst of this great pandemic, to ask her what provision was being made to take croquet out of the lockdown?  ;D

As a croquet player myself, I find this of the utmost importance! ;D ;D

On a more serious note, if golf and tennis are OK to play, why not croquet?

I advise politicians everywhere to take notice of the croquet lobby and not to get on the wrong side of a person who has a croquet mallet.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Saturday 23 May 20 14:03 BST (UK)

I advise politicians everywhere to take notice of the croquet lobby and not to get on the wrong side of a person who has a croquet mallet.

And just as much an offensive weapon as a golf club or tennis racquet
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 23 May 20 14:45 BST (UK)
Lizzie, a croquet mallet is more effective than a tennis racquet. I've never heard of anyone being arrested for being in possession of a croquet mallet with intent though.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Saturday 23 May 20 15:29 BST (UK)
Lizzie, a croquet mallet is more effective than a tennis racquet. I've never heard of anyone being arrested for being in possession of a croquet mallet with intent though.

You haven't seen me play tennis  ;D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Erato on Saturday 23 May 20 15:32 BST (UK)
Wasn't Mr. Rattenbury clobbered to death with a croquet mallet?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Saturday 23 May 20 15:38 BST (UK)
I think it was carpenter's tool type wooden mallet. It happened not far from where my grandparents lived
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 23 May 20 15:51 BST (UK)
Years ago I used to take my croquet mallet as hand-baggage; and hand it over to the steward/ess.

But then Birmingham Airport stopped me ::)
They said it was a dangerous weapon?

3 ft long; with all the weight at one end!
There's no room in an aircraft to swing it! ;D ;D
Add to that the cost of a replacement . . . . . .  :o
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Erato on Saturday 23 May 20 15:56 BST (UK)
I had my favorite dental tool [used to pry small specimens out of rock crevices] confiscated at the airport.  I couldn't convince them that it was not a lethal weapon.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: jc26red on Saturday 23 May 20 16:01 BST (UK)
My daughter had a bottle of perfume confiscated at the airport once because it was called “Flower Bomb”....  ::). not a cheap perfume either!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Saturday 23 May 20 16:05 BST (UK)
We were in a queue at security a couple of years ago and a person in front of us had a walking stick confiscated.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Saturday 23 May 20 16:37 BST (UK)
Perhaps it was one of those swordstick type ones. I once saw something that had a big heavy metal handle, and that the bearer of seemed not to need at all for assistance, queried.
OH's usual travelling stick is telescopic - a "Chris Brasher" one, and it always goes through with no problems.
One of the cameras that I had must've had something funny about it - it's the only one I've ever been asked to switch on and show that it works - no, I didn't "snap" a picture of the official .... I felt that if I did I might end up not able to get onto the plane!Can't recall which camera it must've been, now...
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Ray T on Saturday 23 May 20 17:21 BST (UK)
I was once stopped for a security bag check coming through the airport in Guernsey. The first thing the chap came to was a bottle of Woods Rum. “Great stuff” he said. “Drink it all the time” - he didn’t look any further!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 23 May 20 17:26 BST (UK)
I was once stopped for a security bag check coming through the airport in Guernsey. The first thing the chap came to was a bottle of Woods Rum. “Great stuff” he said. “Drink it all the time” - he didn’t look any further!

BUT did you keep it, or did he?

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Ray T on Saturday 23 May 20 17:33 BST (UK)
I did but I got the impression that he’d have been more than happy to have shared it!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 23 May 20 17:42 BST (UK)
Very glad that you won the competition!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: bradburyd on Saturday 23 May 20 17:54 BST (UK)
We were in a queue at security a couple of years ago and a person in front of us had a walking stick confiscated.
Maybe anecdotal, but I once saw a report that a pilot had accidently left an eating knife (not a carving knife) in his hand baggage. It was confiscated, but he remarked that if he wanted to cause any trouble on the flight deck he would probably use the axe by the pilot's seat!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Maiden Stone on Saturday 23 May 20 18:40 BST (UK)
Airline security isn't likely to be a priority of any of us for a while.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 23 May 20 19:07 BST (UK)
Years ago I used to take my croquet mallet as hand-baggage; and hand it over to the steward/ess.

But then Birmingham Airport stopped me ::)
They said it was a dangerous weapon?

After that episode, I bought a 2-stage, take-down rifle case for the mallet! (It was the right size!!)
The case then contained a mallet, a pair of flat-soled trainers, and a few odds-n-sods.

Every time I went to Jersey, I was stopped at the airport and asked if it was a gun!
I never locked the case! Made it easier to show what was inside ;D

I even painted "Isle of Man Croquet" in big yellow letters on it :D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Saturday 23 May 20 21:46 BST (UK)
My sister had a door handle confiscated! She'd had it in her handbag as she'd been trying to find a matching one and forgotten it was there! Not sure what they thought she was going to do with that.

My great niece, when she was 2 and a half, had her toy gun confiscated from her back pack. My niece was so embarrassed as she didn't know she'd slipped it in. 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 23 May 20 21:54 BST (UK)
Quote
My sister had a door handle confiscated!

Was it a round one from the 1930's? 

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Sunday 24 May 20 14:15 BST (UK)
I hate to imagine what would emerge from my bag during an unexpected search!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: jillruss on Sunday 24 May 20 15:43 BST (UK)
Talking of knobs...what a prime example of door furniture is Dominic Cummings?

I'd pretty much got to 95% sure that the government was treating us like mugs, now I'm at 100%. We're being turned into a police state where everyone else has to do what they're told but the elite can snigger into their pay packets and do what they like.

Enough!  >:(

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Sunday 24 May 20 15:45 BST (UK)
 ;D ;D ;D
TY
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: pharmaT on Sunday 24 May 20 15:55 BST (UK)
Talking of knobs...what a prime example of door furniture is Dominic Cummings?

I'd pretty much got to 95% sure that the government was treating us like mugs, now I'm at 100%. We're being turned into a police state where everyone else has to do what they're told but the elite can snigger into their pay packets and do what they like.

Enough!  >:(

If I did what he did I would be up for a disciplinary and the whole country would not have had a clue what I had done.  I wouldn't do it though because I don't want to be responsible for others dying.  Incidentally I was told that if I had a sense of responsibility I would leave my child alone to go to work so that to me makes them even bigger hypocrites.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 24 May 20 16:18 BST (UK)
Last year I bought a brass H0 scale steam loco boiler from USA for use in a model. It duly arrived re wrapped in border force adhesive tape. It had been opened and resealed. Not surprising really. It was the shape and weight of a small hand gun!
My wife expected a visit from them, but I said if it had been a gun they would have visited at 2am unannounced by smashing the door down, and I would only have seen it during interrogation.
Been very circumspect about the shape of things I have bought since. But pleased they were doing their job properly.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Sunday 24 May 20 16:44 BST (UK)
Last year I bought a brass H0 scale steam loco boiler from USA for use in a model. It duly arrived re wrapped in border force adhesive tape. It had been opened and resealed. Not surprising really. It was the shape and weight of a small hand gun!
My wife expected a visit from them, but I said if it had been a gun they would have visited at 2am unannounced by smashing the door down, and I would only have seen it during interrogation.
Been very circumspect about the shape of things I have bought since. But pleased they were doing their job properly.

Can you imagine the disappointment though, when they discovered they hadn't made a great find?   ;D ;D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Sunday 24 May 20 16:46 BST (UK)
Talking of knobs...what a prime example of door furniture is Dominic Cummings?

I'd pretty much got to 95% sure that the government was treating us like mugs, now I'm at 100%. We're being turned into a police state where everyone else has to do what they're told but the elite can snigger into their pay packets and do what they like.

Enough!  >:(

I see the PM is leading the daily briefing himself at 5pm, unusual for him to do that at the weekend. Perhaps everyone else refused to do it as they knew they would have to answer a lot of questions! Will he now defend and make excuses for him or announce that he's resigned?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Roobarb on Sunday 24 May 20 16:49 BST (UK)
Have just read on a local forum that the reason Dominic Cumming drove to Durham was that as both he and his wife had symptoms of the virus, if they became seriously ill they would need someone to look after the children and therefore they took a house near their family but self isolated, his sister left their shopping outside.

First of all let me say I am NOT defending him, here in the North East we have some of the highest number of cases in the country, hardly surprising if people like him are importing possible cases from London. And why do they need to come here to get someone to look after the children? What about all the people in London who have had the same problem? Just another politician whose policies seem to include do as I say, not as I do.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Sunday 24 May 20 17:12 BST (UK)
Have just read on a local forum that the reason Dominic Cumming drove to Durham was that as both he and his wife had symptoms of the virus, if they became seriously ill they would need someone to look after the children and therefore they took a house near their family but self isolated, his sister left their shopping outside.

First of all let me say I am NOT defending him, here in the North East we have some of the highest number of cases in the country, hardly surprising if people like him are importing possible cases from London. And why do they need to come here to get someone to look after the children? What about all the people in London who have had the same problem? Just another politician whose policies seem to include do as I say, not as I do.

Fair enough if there was no one to care for the child, however it has been said that the child has a nanny, which if true means they could have stayed in London. Apparently they also have relatives living close by in London. What is worse is that it has now come to light that he went out while they were there and also that after returning to London he then made another journey north.

However none of that matters as the Prime Minister has said what he did is fine and he's staying!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 24 May 20 17:16 BST (UK)
Well, now we know  :-X :-X :-X :-X

Disgusted, and perhaps we will soon see the consequences  :-\

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Llwyd on Sunday 24 May 20 17:19 BST (UK)

 What is worse is that it has now come to light that he went out while they were there and also that after returning to London he then made another journey north.


Allegedly - At least I believe the second trip is. However, Cummings must go. The lady in Scotland and gent England who ignored "the rules" had to go and so should he.
 :)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Sunday 24 May 20 17:39 BST (UK)
I'm furious. When the lockdown was announced I was in Wales, as a friend's daughter was about to have a major operation and she'd asked if I'd go to support them. I had to make the decision, did I ignore the rules and stay on, or come home. I reluctantly decided I should come home - seems now that I could have stayed on. As it was, the operation was cancelled, but I didn't know that when I left Wales. Presumably now, if it is rescheduled soon,  I can go back?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 24 May 20 17:42 BST (UK)
groom:  that might depend on your name, and who you work for  :-\
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Sunday 24 May 20 17:44 BST (UK)
groom:  that might depend on your name, and who you work for  :-\

 ;D ;D ;D ;D  I could wear a mask.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Sunday 24 May 20 17:51 BST (UK)
No way could any human being get one that made he/she look like Cummings!!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Maiden Stone on Sunday 24 May 20 18:01 BST (UK)
No way could any human being get one that made he/she look like Cummings!!

They've been around for some time. Unless the man really is ubiquitous? That's a frightening thought.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: magnacarta on Sunday 24 May 20 18:18 BST (UK)
Did Mr Cummings not take comfort stops on his way to Durham?
Motorway service stations are open with other people around.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: heywood on Sunday 24 May 20 18:30 BST (UK)
His wife’s account seems different and I don’t understand why, as it is in the public domaine, it has not been referenced more. She mentions how ill he was and her concern for him but only mentions London.
It is so distressing reading people’s reactions - people who have suffered tremendously trying to do the right thing.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Sunday 24 May 20 18:36 BST (UK)
Did Mr Cummings not take comfort stops on his way to Durham?
Motorway service stations are open with other people around.

More than one I would have though with a child.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: pharmaT on Sunday 24 May 20 19:03 BST (UK)
What has upset me the most is each and everyone standing up and effectively saying that I am a bad mum, some have pretty much said I'm completely unfit to be a parent because I absolutely would not have driven a distance with COvid symptoms.  In fact I wouldn't have driven anywhere (unless a test centre if well enough).  I would stay in my primary residence (OK I'm a scummy pleb with only one residence) and not gone out until I met the conditions that meant that I was not a danger to anyone I would meet by chance.  I just feel I've had enough, what's the point? Now everyone will ignore guidance and we'll have a second, bigger peak and it will be even more months before I see family.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 24 May 20 19:51 BST (UK)
No more no less than I expect, unfit to govern, unfit to advise. Time to close Eton and it's hangers on, no longer fit for purpose if it ever was.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: IgorStrav on Sunday 24 May 20 20:19 BST (UK)
What has upset me the most is each and everyone standing up and effectively saying that I am a bad mum, some have pretty much said I'm completely unfit to be a parent because I absolutely would not have driven a distance with COvid symptoms.  In fact I wouldn't have driven anywhere (unless a test centre if well enough).  I would stay in my primary residence (OK I'm a scummy pleb with only one residence) and not gone out until I met the conditions that meant that I was not a danger to anyone I would meet by chance.  I just feel I've had enough, what's the point? Now everyone will ignore guidance and we'll have a second, bigger peak and it will be even more months before I see family.

In no way are you an unfit mother, and the Prime Minister is very wrong to suggest that those who have kept to the guidelines, often in considerable difficulties, are in any way less than the person who chose - with suitable alternatives to hand - to take a completely unnecessary journey halfway across the country.

In that journey, he risked passing on the virus to other people, and - should he have had an accident or any other difficulty - put the safety services at considerable risk also.

The announcement at 5 o'clock reduced me to tears, and I know that I am not alone in feeling very angry as well as upset.

I think the Prime Minister may very much have underestimated the strength of feeling in the country - once we felt we are all together, and now (apparently) we never have been.

Thank you Pharma, and all your colleagues in the health and caring services, for all you do.


Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Maiden Stone on Sunday 24 May 20 20:22 BST (UK)
I absolutely would not have driven a distance with COvid symptoms.  In fact I wouldn't have driven anywhere (unless a test centre if well enough).  I would stay in my primary residence  and not gone out until I met the conditions that meant that I was not a danger to anyone I would meet by chance.

That would be the common-sense thing to do.  :)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Sunday 24 May 20 20:40 BST (UK)
Quote
The announcement at 5 o'clock reduced me to tears, and I know that I am not alone in feeling very angry as well as upset.

I think the Prime Minister may very much have underestimated the strength of feeling in the country - once we felt we are all together, and now (apparently) we never have been.

I think you are right there. Although he keeps saying how he knows the sacrifices everyone has made, the truth is, he doesn't. He won't have had to worry whether or not he could get a grocery delivery or whether they could afford it. He hasn't isolated himself completely and not spoken to any one for days as some have. As soon as he was diagnosed with CV he got medical treatment - we are told to stay at home and follow the advice on the internet and only seek help when you can hardly breathe. We were told we couldn't travel to second homes or relatives as that would put a strain on the NHS if you became ill there, so we stayed put. That's just the tip of the ice-berg. No wonder people are furious, when they find they have been doing all this because they were told it would save lives, and now we find he is condoning someone who headed north, rather than staying put. Plus, if it is true, went out while he was there.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: jillruss on Sunday 24 May 20 22:40 BST (UK)
And the icing on the cake: they have used the police to make us obey the rules that they are happy to break! Yet, apparently the cops spoke to Mr Cummings but no further action was taken.

This frightens the life out of me - are we moving towards a police state or do we already live in one? It worried me from the start that there were suddenly police to be seen - actually seen! - on the streets. These police who haven't got time to investigate a burglary or break up local troublemakers but can manage to move old ladies off park benches!

For a PM to stand at a lectern tonight and utter such utter drivel and expect us all to swallow it hook, line and sinker is shameful. We are just the little people and matter not until we are needed to make them more money. Plus ca change, eh?

I think Boris's credibility just left the building....

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Mckha489 on Sunday 24 May 20 22:42 BST (UK)
I hate to imagine what would emerge from my bag during an unexpected search!

A few years ago I was at a lecture where various personality types were discussed and then we were asked to go to the corner of the room we thought best fitted us.  It was very funny. The largest group mainly men, but a few women automatically lined themselves up in regimental fashion, (I belong to a profession where this is what you would expect most to be) another, smaller, group mainly women but a couple of men collected in a very haphazard fashion, draped over seats, some sitting, some standing. The lecturer asked if one of those women was willing to have her handbag emptied on stage..

Well, talk about Mary Poppins! She had spares of everything in there!  Tape measure, tools, sewing kit, THREE wallets. TWO hairbrushes, Phone and back up phone....I don’t know how she carried it all day!
The other women in the group were all nodding as each thing came out, so obviously they had them too.

She didn’t ask what was in the men’s pockets, but their jackets were very baggy, so room for stuff I should think.

I am glad to say I was in one of the middle groups.  Not too hot and not too cold. Just right  ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 24 May 20 22:47 BST (UK)
One point that should be made I think, the RETURN journey is over 500 miles, and then later on did it again. That's over 1000, 20 hours+ motoring!!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Sunday 24 May 20 22:49 BST (UK)
I'm just waiting for CCTV or camera phone footage to emerge of Mr C strolling around Barnard Castle. Surely that would be the end of him.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 24 May 20 23:35 BST (UK)
Sky have reported that the number plate corresponds with a car that DC has used. 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Sunday 24 May 20 23:49 BST (UK)
I'm just waiting for CCTV or camera phone footage to emerge of Mr C strolling around Barnard Castle. Surely that would be the end of him.

As Gadget said a number plate was reported to the police and the person who did that has made a complaint to the police.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 24 May 20 23:58 BST (UK)
Also our main local paper reports that a Durham CC councillor has reported sightings to police:

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/dominic-cummings-durham-police-hopgood-18305196

Gadget
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Monday 25 May 20 08:18 BST (UK)
All the coverage on Cummings seems to focus on the distance he travelled during lockdown, not the fact that his wife had symptoms. The family should have been self isolating at HOME. NHS rules are clear on that.
 
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01phm/

Would we have heard anything about it, if the family had stayed at their London house and Cummings had walked 100 yards from home to buy something in his corner shop on that particular day. I doubt it, but the danger to the public from him is just as great. I cannot believe that the Cummings family could travel 260 miles with a 4 year old child without at least one loo stop.
 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Caw1 on Monday 25 May 20 09:08 BST (UK)
I am totally gobsmacked that the PM could stand in front of the nation and blatantly condone DC's actions as being completely fine 😱😱😱

What's the matter with the man he's a buffoon, or as my OH describes him as Billy Bunter!

The PM still doesn't look well and I seriously wonder whether he's actually fit enough to govern the country or whether his dose of covid19 has rendered him incapable of making any sound judgements...

The actions of the government have sent out mixed messages anyway....and now people are just going to flout them wholesale because why should we all abide by their rules and some do just as they please!

Caroline
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Monday 25 May 20 09:16 BST (UK)
I'm just waiting for CCTV or camera phone footage to emerge of Mr C strolling around Barnard Castle. Surely that would be the end of him.

As Gadget said a number plate was reported to the police and the person who did that has made a complaint to the police.
The trouble is, that could be dismissed as a malicious report if there are no photographs. Surely somewhere or other, one will turn up.
Boris's performance yesterday was appalling. He talked over the reporters, didn't allow anyone back in for a follow up question, didn't actually answer any questions and treated us all with utter contempt. The only worse performance was Peter Bottomley yesterday morning on Radio 4 - it was breathtakingly arrogant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar9CxbapWvo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar9CxbapWvo)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: magnacarta on Monday 25 May 20 09:56 BST (UK)
Brushes with death usually changes a persons view on life, maybe Boris just doesn't want the job anymore.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Pheno on Monday 25 May 20 09:58 BST (UK)
This seems to be a thread evolving into doom and gloom, and seeking comfort in the perceived failures of others.

Where is the spike in infections/death some of you prophesied after the VE day street parties?  It hasn't happened and we are beyond the 14 day incubation period.

Perhaps as a reslt of staying indoors for a long period of time some of you appear to have mislaid your rationale too, hopefully only for the time being.

My general perception is that most people who contribute to these threads are stalwart pessimists who feel happiest when spreading doom and gloom.

Pheno
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Caw1 on Monday 25 May 20 10:24 BST (UK)
This seems to be a thread evolving into doom and gloom, and seeking comfort in the perceived failures of others.

Where is the spike in infections/death some of you prophesied after the VE day street parties?  It hasn't happened and we are beyond the 14 day incubation period.

Perhaps as a reslt of staying indoors for a long period of time some of you appear to have mislaid your rationale too, hopefully only for the time being.

My general perception is that most people who contribute to these threads are stalwart pessimists who feel happiest when spreading doom and gloom.

Pheno

If you don't mind me saying I think your comments are little inflammatory - most people have abided by the requests of the government and not able to see their families or loved ones when they've been in hospital and sadly died from this virus.

I don't agree with what your saying that people are 'seeking comfort in the perceived failures of others' from the way I'm reading the other comments people are just angry with what has happened and felt somewhat betrayed.

I also resent being classed, in your words.... stalwart pessimists who feel happiest spreading doom and gloom....
I am an optimist by nature and look at most situations from both sides, in this incidence I'm finding it hard to do this.... I remain to be convinced this was the right action of DC as he has, apparently, relatives in London and a nanny.... this of course needs to be confirmed and not just journalist jingoism... time will tell.

Caroline
For someone in this position to flout their own requests is frankly unacceptable.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Marmalady on Monday 25 May 20 10:26 BST (UK)

My general perception is that most people who contribute to these threads are stalwart pessimists who feel happiest when spreading doom and gloom.

Pheno

One person's perception of "doom and gloom" is another person's perception of "saying it how it is"

If you think the thread too gloomy, you can scroll on by -- or add some sweetness and light to gladden our hearts.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Kiltpin on Monday 25 May 20 10:30 BST (UK)
An argument can be made as to why he and his wife went to Durham. I don't personally believe him, but I am rational enough to see that there might be a reason. 

BUT 
After they were both clear of the virus the law was clearly broken by their return to London. He knew what he was doing and he should be fined (£1,000 at that time).   

Cummings is the power behind the throne - Boris is but the sock-puppet. Take away Cummings and Boris will be exposed as the bumbling buffoon that he always is and was. 

Regards 

Chas         
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Pheno on Monday 25 May 20 10:52 BST (UK)
Hi I wasn't making any comment about Cummings/Boris at all but just that everybody who comments on this thread generally has a downer on what has happened or what will happen - as with the VE day celebrations.  I don't recall, may be wrong, seeing any comments other than: they're all doing it wrong/not socially distancing/they will all spread the virus.  None of the; good to have a bit of gaiety/people being sensible & responsible genre, and what has been the result, no sign of a spike in cases or deaths.  So it is not a case of how it is cos what some were intimating would be a disaster, didn't happen. It is saying how you think it will be (Doom and gloom) rather than how it is.

Funnily enough, rather than being inflammatory I was saying how I feel this thread is - not much lightness.  I see that some of those on the Diary threads feel sad/down/depressed and was really just commenting that this thread is unlikely to raise their spirits.

Sorry if I didn't express myself very well.

Pheno
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Lisajb on Monday 25 May 20 11:16 BST (UK)
This seems to be a thread evolving into doom and gloom, and seeking comfort in the perceived failures of others.

Where is the spike in infections/death some of you prophesied after the VE day street parties?  It hasn't happened and we are beyond the 14 day incubation period.

Perhaps as a reslt of staying indoors for a long period of time some of you appear to have mislaid your rationale too, hopefully only for the time being.

My general perception is that most people who contribute to these threads are stalwart pessimists who feel happiest when spreading doom and gloom.

Pheno

Weston hospital in Somerset has temporarily stopped admitting new patients, including to A&E, because of the number of patients it has with Coronavirus

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/weston-general-hospital-closes-coronavirus-4162175
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Guy Etchells on Monday 25 May 20 11:26 BST (UK)
An argument can be made as to why he and his wife went to Durham. I don't personally believe him, but I am rational enough to see that there might be a reason.

ADDED
As do the Police their guidance states-
"The following activities are not in the list of examples of reasonable excuses:
To visit the homes of friends and family (exceptions include to protect a vulnerable person, for medical purposes or to escape risk of harm)." 

BUT 
After they were both clear of the virus the law was clearly broken by their return to London. He knew what he was doing and he should be fined (£1,000 at that time).   

Cummings is the power behind the throne - Boris is but the sock-puppet. Take away Cummings and Boris will be exposed as the bumbling buffoon that he always is and was. 

Regards 

Chas         


Your argument fails as he returned to London to work.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Monday 25 May 20 11:28 BST (UK)
An argument can be made as to why he and his wife went to Durham. I don't personally believe him, but I am rational enough to see that there might be a reason. 



At the time, his wife was displaying symptoms, he was not. Wasn't he capable of looking after his own 4 year old child at their London home and self isolating for the required period there?
He may never have caught it. How was he able to predict at that point that they both would be affected by the virus to such an extent that they together were incapable of looking after one small child?
He's an adviser - is he clairvoyant too?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Monday 25 May 20 11:32 BST (UK)
Quote
Funnily enough, rather than being inflammatory I was saying how I feel this thread is - not much lightness.  I see that some of those on the Diary threads feel sad/down/depressed and was really just commenting that this thread is unlikely to raise their spirits.

If I start to read a thread I don't like or disagree with, I don't bother to read or follow it. This thread is titled "General discussion on current situation" which is what people are doing. If I want a light hearted thread I go to the Totally off Topic boards.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Kiltpin on Monday 25 May 20 11:55 BST (UK)
An argument can be made as to why he and his wife went to Durham. I don't personally believe him, but I am rational enough to see that there might be a reason. 

BUT 
After they were both clear of the virus the law was clearly broken by their return to London. He knew what he was doing and he should be fined (£1,000 at that time).   

Cummings is the power behind the throne - Boris is but the sock-puppet. Take away Cummings and Boris will be exposed as the bumbling buffoon that he always is and was. 

Regards 

Chas         


Your argument fails as he returned to London to work.
Cheers
Guy
 

No it does not! 

At the time there was no dispensation. He could have done his job equally as well from Durham. Even if Boris could not have existed without his physical presence at No. 10, that does not excuse his wife and child returning. 

No excuses - he broke the law and should be punished. 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Skoosh on Monday 25 May 20 12:06 BST (UK)
Why Barnard Castle? from Craig Murray!

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/05/why-barnard-castle/

Skoosh.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Guy Etchells on Monday 25 May 20 12:17 BST (UK)
No it does not! 

At the time there was no dispensation. He could have done his job equally as well from Durham. Even if Boris could not have existed without his physical presence at No. 10, that does not excuse his wife and child returning. 

No excuses - he broke the law and should be punished. 



There has been since the very first day of the lockdown that people who cannot work from home can travel to go to work.
In his case the alternative would have meant various documents books etc. would have to transfer up and down the country (for security reasons), meetings would have to take place involving MPs and civil servants travelling up to Durham on a frequent basis.
It is reasonable that his wife and child returned with him as Boris's wife and child did when her returned to No. 10.

I have more concerns that Boris went to Chequers rather than No. 10 when he came out of hospital but the press did not take that up as they would have been ridiculed by the public if they had even attempted to make something of it.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Kiltpin on Monday 25 May 20 12:35 BST (UK)
Mr Etchells,
This is not the first time, nor the second, nor even the third time that my posts have annoyed you so much that you feel the need to correct me publicly. But, it will be the last time. After posting this, I will immediately block you so I do not have to read your supposed corrections ever again. You would be well advised to reciprocate and block me also. That way I would no longer annoy you.
You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, but be advised that it is of no more value than mine or anybody else's. Just because YOU say it does not give it any extra weight or credence. Goodbye 

Kiltpin
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Guy Etchells on Monday 25 May 20 12:38 BST (UK)
Mr Etchells,
This is not the first time, nor the second, nor even the third time that my posts have annoyed you so much that you feel the need to correct me publicly. But, it will be the last time. After posting this, I will immediately block you so I do not have to read your supposed corrections ever again. You would be well advised to reciprocate and block me also. That way I would no longer annoy you.
You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, but be advised that it is of no more value than mine or anybody else's. Just because YOU say it does not give it any extra weight or credence. Goodbye 

Kiltpin


I did not say it did, but this is a forum, a place where different points of views are exchanged.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Marmalady on Monday 25 May 20 12:41 BST (UK)
Mr Etchells,
... my posts have annoyed you so much that you feel the need to correct me publicly.

Kiltpin

I did not read the post as a correction but merely as a difference of opinion -- of which there will always be many when discussing current affairs on a public discussion forum.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 May 20 12:47 BST (UK)
Quote
Laura Kuenssberg

@bbclaurak

Dominic Cummings is expected to give a public statement and take questions later himself, as calls for him to quit and explain himself mount
1,003
12:38 PM - May 25, 2020
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Monday 25 May 20 12:51 BST (UK)
Like the press, everyone here is focusing on the distance he travelled, not the fact he should not have travelled anywhere from his residence when one of his household was displaying symptoms.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 May 20 12:53 BST (UK)
Like the press, everyone here is focusing on the distance he travelled, not the fact he should not have travelled anywhere from his residence when one of his household was displaying symptoms.

I'm not  :)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: IgorStrav on Monday 25 May 20 12:54 BST (UK)
Like the press, everyone here is focusing on the distance he travelled, not the fact he should not have travelled anywhere from his residence when one of his household was displaying symptoms.

Well, I think the distance could be considered material - though you're right he shouldn't have gone anywhere (even less his wife, who was displaying potential C-19 symptoms) - because the farther you go, the increased possibility that you will have to stop and engage with people and potentially spread infection.

And the further you go, the more potential there is for there to be some travel related emergency - a traffic accident, a breakdown - which could put Emergency Services at risk.

And also take up NHS time treating you as the result of the accident.

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 May 20 13:06 BST (UK)
Quote
Laura Kuenssberg

@bbclaurak

Dominic Cummings is expected to give a public statement and take questions later himself, as calls for him to quit and explain himself mount
1,003
12:38 PM - May 25, 2020

This is a first - spads don't usually make such statements!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Greensleeves on Monday 25 May 20 13:18 BST (UK)
Quote
Laura Kuenssberg

@bbclaurak

Dominic Cummings is expected to give a public statement and take questions later himself, as calls for him to quit and explain himself mount
1,003
12:38 PM - May 25, 2020

This is a first - spads don't usually make such statements!


Well he is the de facto Prime Minister of the United Kingdom after all; or so it would seem.  I am beyond angry.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: guest189040 on Monday 25 May 20 13:27 BST (UK)
It just shows the incompetence of Boris, he should have known the consequences of the intended action when he was first aware of it.

There is zero justification for the travel.

But then Boris did not go back to number 10 when he was discharged from Hospital he went to Chequers and yet there was no fallout on him going there instead of taking the five minute drive from St Thomas’s to No 10.

Boris should have fired him as soon as the guy travelled north.

Tory’s not in Government positions are annoyed and Bishop’s are Tweeting condemnation of the guys action.

Yet we also have hoards camping out in the South West when there are no facilities open.

The mind boggles at the inconsiderate nature of small sections of society.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gan Yam on Monday 25 May 20 13:33 BST (UK)
Why Barnard Castle? from Craig Murray!

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/05/why-barnard-castle/

Skoosh.

Interesting! ;)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Monday 25 May 20 14:41 BST (UK)
Quote
Laura Kuenssberg

@bbclaurak

Dominic Cummings is expected to give a public statement and take questions later himself, as calls for him to quit and explain himself mount
1,003
12:38 PM - May 25, 2020
Let's hope he actually answers some of the still unanswered questions.
How many times did he travel up to Durham?
Did they stop on the way?
Did they genuinely self-isolate whilst there?
What was the timeline involving him and his wife displaying symptoms and the journey?
Did Boris know they were going? Did he approve it?
When his wife wrote a press article about their Covid experience, why did she completely fail to mention the trip to Durham?
When they have relations in London who could have helped them, why go to Durham?
Did it ever cross his mind that he was breaking the Government's own guidelines?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 25 May 20 14:44 BST (UK)

Hand Washing is now critical after using the Toilet and before Eating because Medical Reports from Abroad show Non-Respiratory Covid-19 has been found in the Human gut and other organs.

That's not the only reason for washing hands. Why do people need to be told to wash their hands after  visiting toilet? Answer must be because some lack common-sense.

I absolutely agree Maiden Stone, but Peanuts on Pub Bars in recent years were coated with Urine & Human Bowel waste when tested.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: mazi on Monday 25 May 20 14:51 BST (UK)
I wonder what he’s going to say.

I’ve just seen a brief video clip,  he opens his front door walks down the steps and there are twenty or more paparazzi pushing and shoving, coughing and shouting, breaking the rules maybe, to line their own pockets with that headline photo.

A more important reason than putting your child’s safety as a priority.


Democracy gone, mob rule arrived?

Mike


Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Monday 25 May 20 14:51 BST (UK)


I absolutely agree Maiden Stone, but Peanuts on Pub Bars in recent years were coated with Urine & Human Bowel waste when tested.

That's a long-standing myth. When and where was this test carried out?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 25 May 20 14:53 BST (UK)
Democracy gone, mob rule arrived?

Maybe I missed it?
But how was Cummings elected?
What democratic instrument was used?

Democracy gone? Democracy was never involved to begin with!!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 May 20 15:00 BST (UK)
Well, the Great Leader is coming to address us all at 4 pm BST -   In the Rose Garden  :o ??? :-X ;D :o


Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: IgorStrav on Monday 25 May 20 15:08 BST (UK)
Well, the Great Leader is coming to address us all at 4 pm BST -   In the Rose Garden  :o ??? :-X ;D :o

In a public announcement specifically prohibited in the Documented Rules for Special Advisors, and from a location at 10 Downing Street, the residence of the UK Prime Minister.

That says a lot about what DC thinks of us (and the power he exerts) even ahead of opening his mouth.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: jillruss on Monday 25 May 20 15:41 BST (UK)
That must be why I have no recollection of having heard him speak before. By all accounts, he's very arrogant and sarcastic.

If so, (judgement pending) this could be the worst mistake of his life. He needs to answer all questions calmly and try to be apologetic whilst still maintaining that he thought his actions justified. If he can do that, he will go up a bit (only a bit!) in my estimation. If not, I think he's about to pop out of the toaster!!!  ;)

4pm? I mustn't miss that! There goes the music session I promised myself after a morning pulling up forget me nots in the garden! I'll put The Allman Brothers on the backburner for now.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: angelfish58 on Monday 25 May 20 15:51 BST (UK)
There goes the music session I promised myself after a morning pulling up forget me nots in the garden! I'll put The Allman Brothers on the backburner for now.
Perhaps a chorus or two of Whipping Post might be appropriate   ;D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: dowdstree on Monday 25 May 20 16:00 BST (UK)
I have refrained from commenting on DC's behaviour so far as I am beyond words at this man's irresponsible behaviour.

Nothing and I mean nothing can justify journeying from your home to somewhere else during lockdown especially if you or someone you are travelling with is displaying symptoms of Covid 19.

This man is dangerous as he thinks he is a law unto himself and running the Country (which he possibly is)

Almost 4 o'clock so I will listen to his excuses.

Dorrie

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 25 May 20 16:03 BST (UK)


I absolutely agree Maiden Stone, but Peanuts on Pub Bars in recent years were coated with Urine & Human Bowel waste when tested.

That's a long-standing myth. When and where was this test carried out?

London Evening Standard, 4th November 2003

Title
Hidden germs in our snacks

Six venues were tested.
 ----------
While washing my hands in the Gents, one often hears Cubicle latches and see leavers go straight out, without washing their hands, Mark
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Monday 25 May 20 16:29 BST (UK)
Well, the Great Leader is coming to address us all at 4 pm BST -   In the Rose Garden  :o ??? :-X ;D :o

Still showing his arrogance by keeping us waiting at least 30 minutes.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: majm on Monday 25 May 20 16:32 BST (UK)
BBC live online ... that Special Advisor must have got cold feet .... or perhaps his watch has stopped.

It's half past one in the morning here in NSW ...  I hope he quits,  unelected officials ought not become the story.

JM
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Maiden Stone on Monday 25 May 20 17:08 BST (UK)


I absolutely agree Maiden Stone, but Peanuts on Pub Bars in recent years were coated with Urine & Human Bowel waste when tested.

That's a long-standing myth. When and where was this test carried out?

London Evening Standard, 4th November 2003

Title
Hidden germs in our snacks

Six venues were tested.
 ----------
While washing my hands in the Gents, one often hears Cubicle latches and see leavers go straight out, without washing their hands, Mark

I've disliked & resisted shaking hands for a long time. I doubt if I'll ever shake hands with anyone again. Just in case I'm in hospital again, I wish to make it clear that if any politician visits, s/he is to approach no nearer than the end of my bed and must on no account shake my hand; I shall keep my hands tucked inside my dressing-gown sleeves. 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 May 20 17:11 BST (UK)
When you're in a hole, stop digging  ::)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 25 May 20 17:13 BST (UK)
 ;D ;D ;D ;D  :-X :-X
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 25 May 20 17:18 BST (UK)
Waffle, waffle, waffle  :-X
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Maiden Stone on Monday 25 May 20 17:20 BST (UK)
Why Barnard Castle?

Researching an offshoot of my family tree, the trail led to Barnard Castle in 1700s; from there to a missionary in penal Australia who became a bishop and to a Caribbean slave-owner.
 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Monday 25 May 20 17:21 BST (UK)
A carefully composed, cleverly conceived, well-delivered apologia... Missed (almost) nothing out. Don't we all feel ashamed of ourselves for doubting that nice Mr C?
Who?
Who wrote it?
When do they get the prize for spinnery?

Isn't it great to hear a true expert at work
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: IgorStrav on Monday 25 May 20 17:22 BST (UK)
Sorry, TFY, my eyes are feeling a bit blurry and I can't quite see your post.

Just off to drive round the Oxford Ring Road to give them a bit of a test....
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 25 May 20 17:24 BST (UK)
TY - love it - but he's not so good when he disposes of the script.

IgorStrav - I do hope that your eyes are now feeling better after your test drive ;)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Jomot on Monday 25 May 20 17:33 BST (UK)
My friend (a member of the clergy in Barnard Castle) is absolutely furious & doesn't believe a word of it.  She has conducted several funerals over this period where no family has been able to attend, and were unable to visit when they were ill.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Monday 25 May 20 17:39 BST (UK)
I wish someone had asked whether his wife can drive.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: IgorStrav on Monday 25 May 20 17:40 BST (UK)
I wish someone had asked whether his wife can drive.


The journalists don't seem to be looking at Twitter - it was asked several thousand times there.

From one of the journalists who broke the story in the first place:

"So many thoughts on this. But it does seem astonishing that Dominic Cummings at no point felt he should apologise for breaking at least the spirit of the rules - let alone the actual rules themselves.

What message does that send out to the public?"

I don't know about you, but I have - a couple of times - in my career met people who NEVER DO ANYTHING WRONG.

It doesn't seem to occur to them that they might possibly have done.
And Dominic Cummings is one of them.

There are a number of potential descriptive names for that sort of personality.


Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 25 May 20 17:42 BST (UK)
Ah, but his wife was ill as well, wasn't she?  I'm sad that no-one brought up the "fact" that there was a nanny for the child., or have I got it wrong and that the nanny was employed after the fact.  :-\ :-\

Again - waffle, waffle, waffle.

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Redroger on Monday 25 May 20 17:42 BST (UK)
When you're in a hole, stop digging  ::)
But he didn't. I do NOT believe it is possible to take a child on a 260 mile journey without at least one comfort break. All it needs is a timestamped video from a motorway service station on the way up and he is dead in the water
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Crumblie on Monday 25 May 20 17:47 BST (UK)
If as he claims it was legal for him to run home to his parents at his age how does he justify driving 200 miles back to London. He cannot, by any stretch of the imagination be classed as a key worker and surely should have worked from his parent's home?

Basically lockdown is dead in the water now and there will be wholesale rule breaking, what is good for him is now good for everyone else.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: IgorStrav on Monday 25 May 20 17:48 BST (UK)
“You can’t do anything but exercise judgement,” said Cummings as he wrapped up the press conference.

In the circumstances, with a small child, it doesn’t go into lots of different circumstance and say what to do. There is no regulation covering the situation I found myself in."


This whole thing has made me so angry and upset.

What of our instructions at the time are not clear?
There were regulations.

STAY HOME.
SAVE LIVES


Not drive 260 miles with a small child, and a potentially Covid-19 positive wife.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Marmalady on Monday 25 May 20 17:51 BST (UK)
Another question they didn't ask was why his wife's brother / sister who live a couple of streets away were not able to be on standby for the possible emergency childcare

And --is taking a drive of an hour or more really the best way of testing whether you are fit to drive?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: IgorStrav on Monday 25 May 20 18:00 BST (UK)
Another question they didn't ask was why his wife's brother / sister who live a couple of streets away were not able to be on standby for the possible emergency childcare

And --is taking a drive of an hour or more really the best way of testing whether you are fit to drive?

Harsh, Marmalade - my eyesight's a bit blurred this afternoon, finding it hard to read the posts.  Was thinking of a swift drive round the Oxford Ring Road to test.  You finding fault with that??
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: familydar on Monday 25 May 20 18:02 BST (UK)
Head all over the place - can't remember detail of the conversation with Boris - but OK to drive 260 miles.

Yeah right
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Monday 25 May 20 18:03 BST (UK)
After several hours of close work, intense focus, such as on a computer screen of very detailed drawing, it helps a lot to go a walk, or something similar, sort of re-sets your focus, I think.

-But not Durham and back!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: IgorStrav on Monday 25 May 20 18:04 BST (UK)
After several hours of close work, intense focus, such as on a computer screen of very detailed drawing, it helps a lot to go a walk, or something similar, sort of re-sets your focus, I think.

-But not Durham and back!

and possibly not drive?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Jomot on Monday 25 May 20 18:17 BST (UK)
New slogan doing the rounds in Barnard Castle (locally known as “Barney”)

Feeling ill?  Unsafe to drive?  Come to Barney

From what I’m seeing, people are just about willing to accept his reasons for travelling to Durham, but absolutely do not believe one word of the story about the ‘test drive’ to Barney. It was a 45-minute drive (not 30) to a beauty spot - requiring them to drive through the town centre - on a sunny bank holiday weekend.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: IgorStrav on Monday 25 May 20 18:27 BST (UK)
New slogan doing the rounds in Barnard Castle (locally known as “Barney”)

Feeling ill?  Unsafe to drive?  Come to Barney

From what I’m seeing, people are just about willing to accept his reasons for travelling to Durham, but absolutely do not believe one word of the story about the ‘test drive’ to Barney. It was a 45-minute drive (not 30) to a beauty spot - requiring them to drive through the town centre - on a sunny bank holiday weekend.


"on a sunny bank holiday weekend." and coincidentally his wife's birthday.


You will be seeing other things, Jomot, but I'm not seeing people thinking that jumping in a car and driving 260 miles with a potentially Covid-19 positive wife and a small child is what is meant by STAY AT HOME.

But there, we've all got different opinions on what is 'reasonable' haven't we.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 May 20 18:36 BST (UK)
We go there about once a year to meet my cousin and his wife. Lovely town  :)

The road from Durham to BC is quite busy. Not one I'd like to drive with blurred vision.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: dowdstree on Monday 25 May 20 18:39 BST (UK)
I make no apology for not believing this man's reasons for driving 260 miles with his sick wife and child.

Surely their house is large enough for his wife to have self isolated in part of it whilst Dominic looked after the child? He states that by the time he fell ill his wife was feeling a bit better. So a bit of role reversal was all that was needed and I am sure they could have muddles through. His excuse for driving all the way to Durham was to seek the best possible childcare for the child if they were both ill at the same time. Absolute rubbish. An irresponsible parent in my opinion driving all that way with a sick wife and a young child.

Ok when he was fit enough to return to work in London why did he not leave his wife and child in Durham as he appeared to be concerned for their safety prior to making the long journey.

Dorrie


Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Greensleeves on Monday 25 May 20 18:48 BST (UK)
My favourite review of Cummings' performance so far:  "He sounded like a man in A&E explaining why he had a cucumber stuck up his bottom". 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: jillruss on Monday 25 May 20 18:53 BST (UK)
So, can his wife drive or not? That was running through my mind as well. If she can, it makes a mockery of the whole Barnard Castle road test as she was supposed to be well by then. And do you really take your beloved wife and child out on a test drive when you think you may have vision problems?

I thought I'd also heard or read that he also has family in London. I should have realised there would be a nanny on the scene as well - I don't move in those circles, so it wasn't something I considered!

I must say that he came across a lot better than I was expecting: quite quietly spoken and didn't lose his temper once (though he was getting a bit edgy with Robert Peston, but, then, who wouldn't). I should imagine he (DC not RP) had been well schooled in how to present himself.

I just can't get beyond the fact that they supposedly drove all that way when they were both unwell and with a 4 year old in the back rather than hunker down and call local relatives or friends. I can accept that he was probably panicking a bit but its the fact that it doesn't seem to have even occurred to him to stay put that worries me. Its that whole sense of entitlement these people have - that they can do what they decide is right, come what may.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he once said sorry. The truth is probably that he didn't think twice about making the journey because in his mind he's entitled to do what he thinks fit, and may well have been intending to leave wife and child in Durham for the family to look after whilst he returned to work where he obviously thinks he's indispensable. He then got sick himself and the plans were scuppered.

Other than the above, apparently it was all the media's fault!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: mazi on Monday 25 May 20 19:02 BST (UK)
A few observations

I saw no arrogance, just patience in the face of loaded questions.

A four year old needs supervision 24 hours a day 7 days a week, not a responsibility I would trust to a nanny, grandparents yes, very very few others.

I’m ok at the moment but an hour or so checking might be a good idea, done it myself more than once, you can always turn back after ten minutes if you are unsure.


At least I wait till the trial is over before passing judgement
Mike

Added,    I will pass on the vulgarity lest I offend
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 25 May 20 19:06 BST (UK)
A four year old needs supervision 24 hours a day 7 days a week, not a responsibility I would trust to a nanny, grandparents yes, very very few others.

WOT?!

What on earth do you pay a nanny for, if not to competently look after a child?! >:(
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gaie on Monday 25 May 20 19:07 BST (UK)
My favourite review of Cummings' performance so far:  "He sounded like a man in A&E explaining why he had a cucumber stuck up his bottom".

 ;D ;D  ;D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: IgorStrav on Monday 25 May 20 19:17 BST (UK)
Apparently Mrs Cummings CAN drive.

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: JenB on Monday 25 May 20 19:26 BST (UK)
A four year old needs supervision 24 hours a day 7 days a week, not a responsibility I would trust to a nanny, grandparents yes, very very few others.

I disagree.
My aunt worked as a nanny for a family throughout the 1950’s and she frequently had sole responsibility for three children, a duty which she discharged superbly. In the 1960s she was nanny to one child and again often had sole responsibility. She was very highly thought of by both families for whom she worked.

Edit: sorry off topic I know but I just had to say it.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Marmalady on Monday 25 May 20 19:35 BST (UK)
His prepared statement went over well -- i was halfway to giving him the benefit of the doubt -- and if he had come out with all that when the story broke on Friday night he wouldn't be in anywhere near as much bother now.
But once he was off script, he undid all the good he had done by his continued "my circumstances were so exceptional there was no other choice and I'm not in the least bit sorry" attitude. Plenty of other couples were both ill and had children to care for but still didn't even consider driving 260 miles.

From what I understand:
There were relatives a couple of streets away
There may have been a nanny who could have been called on
His area of London has an active COVID Aid group of volunteers who could have done the shopping and arranged childcare
The advice was that if you were ill and needed emergency childcare and had no-one else to call on, you should contact Social Services

A 260 mile overnight drive when at least one of the couple was not feeling well was not the only option
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Marmalady on Monday 25 May 20 19:40 BST (UK)
A few observations

A four year old needs supervision 24 hours a day 7 days a week, not a responsibility I would trust to a nanny, grandparents yes, very very few others.


I would rather trust a young active fit trained nanny  to have 24 hour care of a lively 4 yr old than a pair of pensioners -- or even the 16 yr old & 20 yr old nieces he was planning on using if childcare was needed
And if they could not trust their nanny, why on earth was she being employed at all??
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: heywood on Monday 25 May 20 19:45 BST (UK)
Do they employ a nanny?
If she was live-in help she would be part of the household and have to go with them.
At 4 yrs old, their son is probably in Nursery school or Primary, so the family may not need full time help.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: arthurk on Monday 25 May 20 20:00 BST (UK)
Now it all makes sense. DC might have jumped the gun a bit, but presumably this is one of the reasons for ditching "Stay At Home" in favour of the new slogan.

And once the rest of us start using motorways again, I expect the road safety message on the matrix signs will be "Stay Alert".
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: roopat on Monday 25 May 20 20:01 BST (UK)
I felt it was an impressive piece of amateur acting - the frequent stammer, the apparent searching for answers to difficult questions, the appeal to our sympathy for his dilemma when all he could think about was the welfare of his child dadidadidah.. 


I always remember the advice 'never offer more than 1 excuse' - when he started saying another reason for his trip was that his home was targeted I just laughed out loud. After 14 days suddenly the house was safe enough for the whole family to return  ???


It's actually terrifying that our PM appears to be just a puppet of this unelected spin Doctor.






Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: roopat on Monday 25 May 20 20:03 BST (UK)

And once the rest of us start using motorways again, I expect the road safety message on the matrix signs will be "Stay Alert".


Or 'Get your eyes checked'  ;D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Kiltpin on Monday 25 May 20 20:26 BST (UK)
My favourite review of Cummings' performance so far:  "He sounded like a man in A&E explaining why he had a cucumber stuck up his bottom". 

Regards 

Chas
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Rena on Monday 25 May 20 20:39 BST (UK)
Ha ha to the cucumber remark  :D

Usually when you're ill you have to be  ill at your usual abode, or hospital, otherwise you could be dismissed from your job. 

When asked whether he'd told his employer that he was leaving town, he replied "No".  When we see him in Downing Street he usually has a folder of documents with him.  What if he had taken documents home that his employer needed but he wasn't there and hadn't told anyone where he was going?
 
According to DC.  During the Barnard Castle eyesight test drive, his wife and child went into the woods, he also went into the woods.  After getting back into the car he then felt sick, after the nausea passed he spoke with his wife and they decided to drive back to London the next day.

Apparently this man is a key decision maker !

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: JenB on Monday 25 May 20 22:18 BST (UK)
Apparently this man is a key decision maker !

Which is why I find it incredible that he apparently didn't have any contingency plans in place for his family in the event of him falling ill.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 May 20 23:05 BST (UK)
I found it interesting that, although the three newish slogans were still on the lecterns, Boris seemed to avoid telling us to Stay Alert/Stay at Home; Save the NHS; Save Lives..

He left us with

Wash your Hands
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: guest189040 on Monday 25 May 20 23:15 BST (UK)
The real frightening aspect of all this debacle is Boris.

He is well known to be the Buffoon of politics yet a sizeable portion of the Country voted for him.

Yes those of you who voted Boris into the post of PM are the problem.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 May 20 23:18 BST (UK)
I'll agree with you there  :)

(more or less)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Roobarb on Monday 25 May 20 23:19 BST (UK)
Isn't this supposed to be a non political forum? I think we can do without jibes about who voted for what party.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Monday 25 May 20 23:23 BST (UK)
Roobarb - this thread has been political from the beginning . Politics doesn't stop at the ballot box.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Roobarb on Monday 25 May 20 23:51 BST (UK)
It's supposed to be about the current situation, ie related to Covid19. Yes of course politics comes into that but comments about which way people voted in the General Election are not relevant.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 May 20 00:07 BST (UK)
How people vote determines the policies that are followed. The thread has been about the policies that are in place to handle the current crisis and how they are being operationalised and managed.

I'm not really interested about who voted for whom.  Biggles appears to be.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Skoosh on Tuesday 26 May 20 09:07 BST (UK)
Quite right Gadget, I don't find Boris Johnson scary, what I do find scary is people who think he's doing a good job!

Skoosh.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Guy Etchells on Tuesday 26 May 20 09:10 BST (UK)
I wonder why there is not any uproar on this forum about the following Labour MPs who have flouted the lockdown rules whereas there has been a lot of outrage stirred up in the main by the media being consevative with the truth and indeed lying about events about Dominic Cummins. Who according to not only the written down lockdown laws and guidelines has not broken any laws or rules, even the Attorney General, Suella Braverman  has stated Dominic Cummings has broken no laws.

Welsh Secretary Vaughan Gething  who went for exercise  in Wales (allowed) but stopped to eat with his family at a time when such picnics were prohibited

Steven Kinnock who drove hundreds of miles to see his parents on his dad's birthday and was urged by the police to obey the regulations

Tahir Ali who went to a funeral with many other people (Birmingham City Council limits mourners at a funeral to six ) and was criticised as "totally irresponsible" by West Midlands Police and Crime Commissioner, David Jamieson.  (Gatherings in public of more than two people who do not share a household have been banned under coronavirus lockdown measures.)

 Kevan Jones (Durham MP) breaking the rules, along with some police officers, to attend a VE Day-themed birthday party for a 100-year-old constituent.

Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: suey on Tuesday 26 May 20 09:18 BST (UK)

People all around the country are flouting the rules.  We have a big house near us, we don’t generally see the owners more than 3 or 4 times a year.  They employ a gardener handyman and housekeeper.  About 3 weeks in to lock down the family appeared. Since then they have regularly had friends to stay.  This weekend 9 assorted age people over from the US have come for a ‘holiday’  >:(. How do I know, because being a nosey old biddy I stopped the older member of a group of 6 and asked who they were and where were they going. They were cycling on a private access road at the time.

We’ve also seen two people camping in a tent on farm land, oh, it’s OK though because they’re walking the South Downs Way so not mixing with anyone. Didn’t ask where they are buying food or what they are doing for facilities.

It’s the fact that DC is one of those calling the shots, a man in a position of power and privilege and who should be leading by example that makes my blood boil.

Bo Jo’s latest ought to now read, don’t do as I do but do as I say.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 May 20 10:00 BST (UK)
First ministerial resignation.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Tuesday 26 May 20 10:03 BST (UK)
I wonder why there is not any uproar on this forum about the following Labour MPs who have flouted the lockdown rules …..

I'm pretty sure that if they were the party in power,  making the rules and telling everyone to stay at home, they would have been receiving exactly the same attention.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 26 May 20 10:27 BST (UK)
I wonder why there is not any uproar on this forum about the following Labour MPs who have flouted the lockdown rules whereas there has been a lot of outrage stirred up in the main by the media being consevative with the truth and indeed lying about events about Dominic Cummins. Who according to not only the written down lockdown laws and guidelines has not broken any laws or rules, even the Attorney General, Suella Braverman  has stated Dominic Cummings has broken no laws.

Welsh Secretary Vaughan Gething  who went for exercise  in Wales (allowed) but stopped to eat with his family at a time when such picnics were prohibited

Steven Kinnock who drove hundreds of miles to see his parents on his dad's birthday and was urged by the police to obey the regulations

Tahir Ali who went to a funeral with many other people (Birmingham City Council limits mourners at a funeral to six ) and was criticised as "totally irresponsible" by West Midlands Police and Crime Commissioner, David Jamieson.  (Gatherings in public of more than two people who do not share a household have been banned under coronavirus lockdown measures.)

 Kevan Jones (Durham MP) breaking the rules, along with some police officers, to attend a VE Day-themed birthday party for a 100-year-old constituent.

Cheers
Guy

As far as I am aware, none of the people you mention were displaying symptoms of coronavirus at the time of their journeys / meetings unlike Dominic Cummings. If his vehicle had broken down on the journey or been involved in an accident, there could have been quite serious consequences for anyone coming to his assistance.

Dominic Cummings has considerable power, the other three are opposition MPs who have no say in government policy.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Rishile on Tuesday 26 May 20 10:35 BST (UK)
Who according to not only the written down lockdown laws and guidelines has not broken any laws or rules, even the Attorney General, Suella Braverman  has stated Dominic Cummings has broken no laws.

Cheers
Guy
If he hasn't broken any laws then why have we been on lockdown?  Surely it was to prevent the spread of the virus.  He has admitted he travelled 260 miles with his wife who had the virus.  What was it about the instructions 'If you have the virus, stay at home' didn't he understand?  Also, he has admitted driving a 60 mile round trip 'to test his eyesight'.  That is not acceptable even in normal conditions.  If you consider your eyesight is not good enough to drive, get your eyes tested or do not drive.  These are the rules we ALL abide by. 

Rishile
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: dowdstree on Tuesday 26 May 20 10:47 BST (UK)
Gadget the Minister who has resigned is Douglas Ross, Conservative MP for Moray. A junior minister at the Scottish Office.

I wonder if there will be any more resignations to come?

Dorrie
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 May 20 10:54 BST (UK)
Picked it up a few seconds after I posted, Dorrie. I think this story will run a bit longer yet!

I see that the ONS figures have come out showing a slight rise in excess deaths to May 15th (even after allowance for  no registrations on VE day holiday).  This is especially clear in care home deaths.

PS - a few more Tory MPs tweeting disapproval.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: dowdstree on Tuesday 26 May 20 11:04 BST (UK)
NRS figures due out tomorrow so we will see how Scotland is doing.

I too think that it is not over yet.

Dorrie

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Tuesday 26 May 20 11:14 BST (UK)
What I can't understand is that, apparently there have been many inconsistencies between his story and an article that his wife wrote about their time in isolation. Also, his wife can drive and must have recovered from whatever she had as she accompanied the child to hospital. So, when they wanted to return to London, why did he have to do a test drive 30 miles each way to see if his eyesight was okay?  This trip just happened to be on his wife's birthday! Why couldn't they have returned to London sharing the driving?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: IgorStrav on Tuesday 26 May 20 11:21 BST (UK)
https://twitter.com/HaggardHawks/status/1264979700465700864?s=20

For the historians amongst us   ;) a startlingly appropriate reference regarding the beauty spot in question.

"Barnard Casle -  historic term as in "Come, come, that's Barney Castle" , an expression often used when a person is heard making a bad excuse in an even worse cause......"
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 26 May 20 11:27 BST (UK)
There are quite a few 'blue plaques' in Barnard Castle.
Yesterday a new one appeared  ;D https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-25/dominic-cummings-was-lurking-here-barnard-castle-sign-pokes-fun-at-alleged-visit/

For the historians amongst us   ;) a startlingly appropriate reference regarding the beauty spot in question.

"Barnard Casle -  historic term as in "Come, come, that's Barney Castle" , an expression often used when a person is heard making a bad excuse in an even worse cause......"

It's in the dialect dictionary too
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Tuesday 26 May 20 11:29 BST (UK)
Trip Advisor removed a lot of very witty reviews about the place as well. They now have a notice on the page saying that due to recent events they have  temporarily suspended publishing new reviews.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 26 May 20 11:31 BST (UK)
Trip Advisor removed a lot of very witty reviews about the place as well.

I managed to read them before they were removed  ;D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Tuesday 26 May 20 11:32 BST (UK)
There were plenty of holes in the statement but I think it was probably good enough for him to keep his job and for the current anger to subside. He came up with something that, however unlikely it seems, it would be hard to disprove.
The damage is done though, to the credibility of the government's efforts during and post-lockdown. Ultimately, it will mean more people taking chances or ignoring guidelines, which will surely result in extra deaths.
He'll keep his job but that's not the most important thing here.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 May 20 11:35 BST (UK)
Rumours that the 1922 committee might get involved - and you know what happens when they flex their muscles.

PS - Wayback Machine search by journalists and others  has found certain amendments to a blog
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Guy Etchells on Tuesday 26 May 20 11:39 BST (UK)
Who according to not only the written down lockdown laws and guidelines has not broken any laws or rules, even the Attorney General, Suella Braverman  has stated Dominic Cummings has broken no laws.

Cheers
Guy
If he hasn't broken any laws then why have we been on lockdown?  Surely it was to prevent the spread of the virus.

Yes we have been on lockdown to help prevent the spread of the virus.

He has admitted he travelled 260 miles with his wife who had the virus.  What was it about the instructions 'If you have the virus, stay at home' didn't he understand?

First we have learnt that neither he, nor his wife had the virus, they just thought that because he was in a work enviroment where many others had succumbed to the virus so they assumed that was what was affecting his wife and later him.
You have also missed out the rest of the guidance which includes-

"2. Staying at home
It is still very important that people stay home unless necessary to go out for specific reasons set out in law. These include:
for work, where you cannot work from home
going to shops that are permitted to be open – to get things like food and medicine, and to collect goods ordered online or on the phone
to exercise or spend time outdoors for recreation
any medical need, to donate blood, avoid injury or illness, escape risk of harm, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person"

The journey to Durham was to prevent harm to their 4 year old son if their worst fears were confirmed and they succumbed before they could make arrangements for him.

Also, he has admitted driving a 60 mile round trip 'to test his eyesight'.  That is not acceptable even in normal conditions.  If you consider your eyesight is not good enough to drive, get your eyes tested or do not drive.  These are the rules we ALL abide by. 

Rishile

This is one of those edited parts that changes the meaning of what was said, yes earlier he said that when he was very ill he thought the illness affected his eyesight but he also said he became very weak and at one time he could not stand, his wife talked to him about the wisdom of driving back to London so they decided to take a short drive to see if he could safely manage to drive back.
That to me means the main reason for the test drive was to see if he could cope with the rigours of driving not to check his eyesight.

It is very obvious that there is a lynch mob in media circles out for his head and they are going to take this opportunity to attack him no matter what the truth is.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 26 May 20 11:48 BST (UK)
His story and his wife’s differ between the earlier versions - in the Spectator and his wife’s ‘Thought for the Day’ broadcast and the most recent broadcasts.
If they knew they were entitled to drive that distance, whilst believing that one or the other was stricken with disease, why was it not mentioned in April?
The article and broadcast were based on personal experiences of coping with the virus.
What I do disagree with, is the way the child has been used to defend his behaviour and to imply that critics are disregarding the child’s welfare.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Guy Etchells on Tuesday 26 May 20 11:51 BST (UK)
I think I should make it clear I have no time for Dominick Cummings, but I also have no time for lynch mobs and victimisation.

If he was simple a shop assistant do you think the trade unions would sit quietly while he was attacked like this and people demanded he was sacked, no they would be up in arms and would threaten strike action if that happened.
Do not forget he has not broken any rules or any laws, if you do not believe me check out the various laws and guidelines on the subject and you will find he has acted in accordance to the Law of the Land and the provisions of the guidelines.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Jomot on Tuesday 26 May 20 12:11 BST (UK)
Also, he has admitted driving a 60 mile round trip 'to test his eyesight'.  That is not acceptable even in normal conditions.  If you consider your eyesight is not good enough to drive, get your eyes tested or do not drive.  These are the rules we ALL abide by. 

Rishile

This is one of those edited parts that changes the meaning of what was said, yes earlier he said that when he was very ill he thought the illness affected his eyesight but he also said he became very weak and at one time he could not stand, his wife talked to him about the wisdom of driving back to London so they decided to take a short drive to see if he could safely manage to drive back.
That to me means the main reason for the test drive was to see if he could cope with the rigours of driving not to check his eyesight.

It is very obvious that there is a lynch mob in media circles out for his head and they are going to take this opportunity to attack him no matter what the truth is.
Cheers
Guy

This is from the transcript:

On Sunday 12 April, 15 days after I had first displayed symptoms, I decided to return to work. My wife was very worried, particularly given my eyesight seemed to have been affected by the disease. She didn't want to risk a nearly 300-mile drive with our child, given how ill I had been. We agreed that we should go for a short drive to see if I could drive safely

How has the meaning been changed? 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 26 May 20 12:15 BST (UK)
He is not a shop assistant though, Guy,  and therefore there can not be a comparison.

I have heard the various claims that his actions were legal but I cannot find the relevant ‘laws and guidelines’ you refer to but I am sure they are there somewhere as you know of them.

Mr Gove has just referred to his (Mr Cummings) being ok to drive at the time - however that has only been allowed since last week, so ministers get mixed up too  :)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 26 May 20 12:23 BST (UK)
they decided to take a short drive to see if he could safely manage to drive back.

Barnard Castle is approximately a 50 mile round trip from Durham.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: gaffy on Tuesday 26 May 20 12:23 BST (UK)

... It is very obvious that there is a lynch mob in media circles out for his head and they are going to take this opportunity to attack him no matter what the truth is.
Cheers
Guy


I can't stand the self-entitled arrogance of Cummings and I think he breached the spirit of the lockdown measures by a country mile, but I take the point, for the amount and severity of opprobrium levelled at him by some elements of the media for a sustained number of days has left me uncomfortable, especially since their motivation is so clearly to achieve a scalp, rather than holding to account.

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: jillruss on Tuesday 26 May 20 12:39 BST (UK)
Gadget is right - politics come into most issues nowadays. Those who state that they don't wish to bring politics into it are being naive.

Surely the point here is credibilty. I too have no particular truck with DC. Mostly, I couldn't normally give a monkeys what he does but this is different.

Its an unprecedented situation with an unprecedented (I now expect Guy to post a finding that a similar thing happened in 900BC in Timbuktu, but anyway..) 'solution' i.e. lockdown. Most of the population heeded the goverment's edicts because they thought 'we were all in this together' and that this was the way to save lives (as we were told several times a day).

Of course, there were always going to be a small percentage of people who ignored the 'rules'. You can never account for what they will or won't do, but you don't expect one of those small percentage to be a man who is supposedly only second in command to the PM and who the PM clearly feels he can't function without.

The PM' and DC obviously put their heads together and came up with an explanation to fit the evidence that is in the public purview. Parts of it are ludicrous (the Barnard Castle eyesight thing for one. Incidentally, I don't remember DC saying that day also happened to be his wife's birthday so wasn't this just a touch of the Wallace & Grommits? A Grand Day Out?)

The PM's credibility is shot to pieces. I doubt he will be believed ever again.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: suey on Tuesday 26 May 20 12:44 BST (UK)
I wonder why there is not any uproar on this forum about the following Labour MPs who have flouted the lockdown rules …..

I'm pretty sure that if they were the party in power,  making the rules and telling everyone to stay at home, they would have been receiving exactly the same attention.

Agreed, and if anyone thinks for one minute that these or similar scenarios wouldn’t have happened under an alternative government then I’m a monkeys uncle.
After the disgraceful way MPs behaved in parliament during the Brexit debacle I’m afraid I lost respect for the whole lot of them.

I might have forgiven DC if he had just come out, held his hands up and said “I’m sorry; with hindsight, I made a bad decision albeit one made with what I considered best for my family at the time” .

Job done, enough said and don’t keep changing your story or digging a deeper hole. 😡

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Jomot on Tuesday 26 May 20 12:48 BST (UK)
Personally I feel the most damning part of the whole thing was this paragraph: 

"At this point, most of those who I work with most closely, including the prime minister himself and others who sit within 15 feet of me every day, either had had symptoms and had returned to work or were absent with symptoms".

This was 27th March.  If things were that bad within the heart of Government, why did lockdown only begin on 23rd March?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Skoosh on Tuesday 26 May 20 13:04 BST (UK)
Anent the worst death rate in Europe can we now expect all the peeps who were fined for breaking the lockdown rules will now have their fines reimbursed as these rules were not law just guidance, according to Boris Johnson.

Skoosh
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Guy Etchells on Tuesday 26 May 20 14:14 BST (UK)
Anent the worst death rate in Europe can we now expect all the peeps who were fined for breaking the lockdown rules will now have their fines reimbursed as these rules were not law just guidance, according to Boris Johnson.

Skoosh

Many such fines were deemed unlawful weeks ago and have been reimbursed.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 May 20 14:15 BST (UK)
I'm not sure if anyone else remembers Black Wednesday (Sept 1992) but I feel that the vibes are very similar to then.

The latest YouGov poll is out and makes worrying reading for Boris.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Marmalady on Tuesday 26 May 20 15:03 BST (UK)
"...any medical need, to donate blood, avoid injury or illness, escape risk of harm, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person"

The advice given at the time was that if there was no-one a family could call on to provide care, they should contact the local authorities
And if the nieces were the only possible people to be able to provide such care, they should have travelled to London provide the care.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Tuesday 26 May 20 15:10 BST (UK)
Possibly DC didn't break any rules or laws but he certainly bent them. His wife called him home as she thought she had Covid19, but the same day when she felt better, not knowing if she had it, he returned to work, when the rest of us were told if any one had symptoms we were supposed to self isolate. They drove 250 miles with her still showing symptoms - weren't the police at that time given the powers to escort anyone showing symptoms home? After his son was taken to hospital and whilst he was still suffering from what he says was the virus, he left the house to drive and pick them up. Even if he didn't leave the car, if he was as ill as claimed, he was a danger behind the wheel.

There was no need for them to go for a test drive, as his wife drives - something she has mentioned several times in articles, so could easily have taken over driving home.

I think what people are so angry about is the fact that majority of us have sacrificed seeing family and friends, have missed holidays, weddings, funerals etc because we thought it was right and now we find that we could probably have found loop holes and done these things! How many parents have struggled with child care when ill, because they didn't realise they could have driven to family?

A simple admission of an error of judgement when all this came out and an apology and a sign of some regret would have gone a long way. Instead we get none of that, even arrogance yesterday keeping the whole Nation waiting half an hour!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 26 May 20 15:22 BST (UK)
And we are meant to accept that it was pure coincidence that the trip(s) matched up with his mother's  birthday and his wife's birthday (the day of the 'eyesight' road trip to Barnard Castle).

Also that his wife's accounts of their 'illness' - one in print in the Spectator and the other via the radio - made no mention of being in Durham/Barnard Castle/having to go to hospital/eyesight issues.

I am not a hugely political person- I have voted for most parties at one time and another, for different reasons - however I do not think I can adequately convey my sheer disgust and horror at the catalogue of lies and excuses that our government appear to think that the public will swallow.  And I refer to more than just the DC episode.  Day after day, government spokespeople have stood in front of the nation and spouted guff (protective arms thrown around care homes, anybody???  100,000 tests in one day??? Individual gloves counted in the PPE tally???).  They have praised key workers, whilst not protecting them and excluding some of the poorest paid from death in service benefits and indefinite leave to remain (only changing when public opinion forced them to do so).  The DC episode is frankly just the unpalatable icing on the cake.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Rishile on Tuesday 26 May 20 15:25 BST (UK)
I think what people are so angry about is the fact that majority of us have sacrificed seeing family and friends, have missed holidays, weddings, funerals etc because we thought it was right and now we find that we could probably have found loop holes and done these things! How many parents have struggled with child care when ill, because they didn't realise they could have driven to family?


I totally agree Groom.  People are, quite rightly, angry.  Apart from the things you have mentioned, people have lost jobs, lost or could lose businesses, have lost family members without being able to say goodbye, and for what?  Because we were TOLD to stay indoors.  Because we were TOLD to self-isolate if we had even mild symptoms or if any of our family had mild symptoms.  Because we were TOLD it was the right thing to do to save lives and to save the NHS.  How many times were we told STAY INDOORS.  But one person who was, no doubt, instrumental in all these instructions decides he will do things differently.  It doesn't matter if he wife did not have the virus.  She THOUGHT she may have the virus.  In the current situation, it's the same thing.  He THOUGHT he may have the virus but still decides to drive to a beauty spot 30 miles away.  He had other options available to him but he decided to do what he wanted to do.  How many people have had that luxury over the past three months?

Rishile
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 May 20 15:26 BST (UK)
Just been reading a piece which mentions a slogan used by the Paris student demonstrations of  1968

DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND – THERE IS A FAULT WITH REALITY.”

It seems to fit, somehow.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: mazi on Tuesday 26 May 20 15:36 BST (UK)
I'm not sure if anyone else remembers Black Wednesday (Sept 1992) but I feel that the vibes are very similar to then.

The latest YouGov poll is out and makes worrying reading for Boris.


I remember black Wednesday, that’s what happens when you choose a nice honest but weak prime minister.

Mike
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: mazi on Tuesday 26 May 20 16:10 BST (UK)
I doubt it will make the slightest difference but there is a little snippet on the bbc home page, seemingly there have been reported cases of covid19 affecting the eyesight.

They rarely affect the vision, but the advice is to drive with caution until you are sure you are ok.

Mike
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Ray T on Tuesday 26 May 20 16:12 BST (UK)
they decided to take a short drive to see if he could safely manage to drive back.

Barnard Castle is approximately a 50 mile round trip from Durham.

Thereby lies another inconsistency. From the property in which he was staying, the centre of Barnard Castle is over 25 miles by the most direct route. His claimed stop by the river involves driving through the centre and out the other side.

His claim that the trip to Barney took half an hour is also a 50% exageration. The AA Routefinder quickest route times the journey at 43 minutes to the centre of Barney - perhaps the problems with his eyesight meant he couldn’t see his speedometer!

On a separate matter, did anyone watch the recent interview with Alastair Campbell on the BBC news channel? - Classic!
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Rishile on Tuesday 26 May 20 16:31 BST (UK)
I doubt it will make the slightest difference but there is a little snippet on the bbc home page, seemingly there have been reported cases of covid19 affecting the eyesight.

They rarely affect the vision, but the advice is to drive with caution until you are sure you are ok.

Mike

What????  When has this been the case?  Drive with caution because you can't see properly?  Where does it say this in the Highway Code?

Rishile
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 26 May 20 16:42 BST (UK)
Nowhere!

"92
Vision. You MUST be able to read a vehicle number plate, in good daylight, from a distance of 20 metres (or 20.5 metres where the old style number plate is used). If you need to wear glasses (or contact lenses) to do this, you MUST wear them at all times while driving. The police have the power to require a driver to undertake an eyesight test.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 96 & MV(DL)R reg 40 & sch 8"

Some of the highway code is "guidance" but this para is backed up by law as shown in reference at bottom of section
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: jillruss on Tuesday 26 May 20 16:50 BST (UK)
One of the main reasons DC gave for leaving home rather than staying put was that there was a ranting crowd of the media outside his home at all times and that it wasn't a place to be when ill.

How do the dates work out? We were surely in lockdown by then (hence all the controversy) so surely a throng of media types outside his home would have been legally moved on by the police, if they were there in the first place??? I think he may have over-egged the pudding with this assertion.

I bet the cabinet bods aren't all lining up to take today's covid update!!! One of the toadies, no doubt....
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: IgorStrav on Tuesday 26 May 20 17:00 BST (UK)
Oh the whole 'taking a trip to Barnard Castle to test my eyesight, because I was worried about it' is just a complete joke.

A five year old would know that this is just a stupid excuse which cannot possibly hold water.

He's lying, he doesn't care about lying, and he doesn't care that we know it

The more worrying thing is that our elected representatives, the "brightest and the best", apparently, who are in the Cabinet, the rulers of our country in the unprecedented times we find ourselves in, are defending this barefaced lie.

Can't say sorry, can't apologise - won't even, like Priti Patel, say ''I'm sorry if you feel' I acted unreasonably".  And our Ministers defend that?

Angry?  You bet we are.

I recommend a very good article in the Guardian today by Irishman Fintan O'Toole

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/26/cummings-contempt-lockdown-rules-public-catholic-church-ireland

With the distance achieved by being Irish, and not British, he compares our current situation with that of his mother's allegiance to the Catholic Church in Ireland.  She found some of the Church's teachings hard, but despite all the difficulties caused to her, she stuck with it because she had faith in the authority of the Church itself. 

And then she discovered what had happened about the cover-up of sexual abuse, and she suddenly realised that all her difficult adherence to rules and authority was misplaced.  She'd been taken for a mug.

And Boris Johnson on Sunday, in defending Dominic Cummings and in the process demeaning all the people who took hard decisions to stick to the rules and were, in some way, therefore not as 'good' parents, has told all the rest of us that we're mugs.

Make me cry?  Yes, it did.





Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 26 May 20 17:04 BST (UK)
I was going to post that O’Toole article - a good piece.

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Millmoor on Tuesday 26 May 20 17:05 BST (UK)
Having just read the article about coronavirus and eyesight on the BBC website it does not state " to drive with caution until you are sure you are ok". Please show me where in the piece it says "until you are sure you are ok".

Here is the correct quote "... a recent study in Wuhan... reported a range of eye problems, including swelling and sticky eye. All of the above symptoms may affect vision and affected patients would be advised to drive with caution or not at all if there was significant blurring of vision or double vision".

I am rather surprised, Mazi that you did not refer to the part about not driving at all in your post.

Moreover the article goes on to quote the RNIB - "...any sudden change of vision should be taken seriously and is a reason to seek immediate medical advice from an optometrist or NHS 111".

Link to article here:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52802661


Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: mazi on Tuesday 26 May 20 17:23 BST (UK)
Having just read the article about coronavirus and eyesight on the BBC website it does not state " to drive with caution until you are sure you are ok". Please show me where in the piece it says "until you are sure you are ok".

Here is the correct quote "... a recent study in Wuhan... reported a range of eye problems, including swelling and sticky eye. All of the above symptoms may affect vision and affected patients would be advised to drive with caution or not at all if there was significant blurring of vision or double vision".

I am rather surprised, Mazi that you did not refer to the part about not driving at all in your post.

Moreover the article goes on to quote the RNIB - "...any sudden change of vision should be taken seriously and is a reason to seek immediate medical advice from an optometrist or NHS 111".

Link to article here:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52802661




I am pleased that you have looked  at it,  others may not have bothered. I am guilty as charged, I hate long winded posts, but still think it very relevant.

Eyesight and vision are slightly different things

Mike
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 May 20 17:29 BST (UK)
He said that the doctor who he consulted told him he was fit to return to work. Why didn't he raise the problem of his sight with him? 

(sorry if this has been mentioned earlier and I've missed it).
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Greensleeves on Tuesday 26 May 20 17:37 BST (UK)
Whilst Dominic Cummings gave his version of events on 25th May his wife - Spectator Commissioning Editor Mary Wakefield - gave her account on BBC Radio 4 Thought for the Day on 25th April and also published a written account in The Spectator at about the same time.  Obviously I can't reproduce the article. It is available online but curiously the BBC (I am told) has deleted the R4 programme.  However here is a brief synopsis of events according to Ms Wakefield annotated with dates  by me in bold type. 

[Dominic] said "I feel weird" and collapsed. I felt breathless, sometimes achy, but Dom couldn't get out of bed. [28 March]

'Day in day out for ten days he had a high fever, with spasms that made the muscles lump and twitch in his legs:[28 March - 6 April]
28 March - high fever & twitching legs. Only limited shallow breathing.
29 March - Ditto
30th March - Ditto
31st March - Ditto.
1st April - ditto
2nd April - "After a week we reached peak corona uncertainty,  day six is a turning point I was told, when you either get better or head for ICU. Was Dom fighting off the bug or was he heading for a ventilator, who knew?"
3rd April -  'I sat on his bed staring at his chest trying to count his breaths per minute. The little oxygen reader we'd bought on Amazon indicated he should be in hospital, but his lips weren't blue and he could talk in full sentences” 

No mention whatsoever of leaving London.  Now according to Cummings' account things were somewhat different because it was his wife who became ill and on 30th March after she had started vomiting he put her and the child in the car and drove 260 miles to Durham.  According to her published account on 25th April he was more or less at death's door on 30th March and they hadn't travelled anywhere because he was too ill to leave his bed.  Curiouser and curiouser.


Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Erato on Tuesday 26 May 20 17:49 BST (UK)
And now for some good news.  Two of my lifelines - Rodolfo and Elmer - went down sick last week.  I was worried for them and for me.  BUT, I have found out that Rodolfo was out because he broke his hand last year and it was acting up on him from carrying so many heavy sacks of groceries to people in the neighborhood.  He took a few days off to rest up.  And Elmer was just suffering from his usual allergies.  He's back, too.  A big thanks to these frontline people who are keeping us supplied.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: mazi on Tuesday 26 May 20 17:54 BST (UK)
He said that the doctor who he consulted told him he was fit to return to work. Why didn't he raise the problem of his sight with him? 

(sorry if this has been mentioned earlier and I've missed it).


Round here the nhs doesn’t “do” eyesight, it’s contracted out to you know who.

They are closed ;D ;D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 26 May 20 17:57 BST (UK)
I doubt that people with virus related eye/eyesight  problems have to wait to see a closed contracted out provider.  ::)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 May 20 17:57 BST (UK)
That's not an answer, Mike. I was referred to the eye clinic at the RVI by my GP when I had eye probs. I'm sure DC would have been sent to see them immediately.

Anyway, this is an interesting piece from a former Attorney General:

https://www.jeremywright.org.uk/news/dominic-cummings

(Add - small print so wear your specs  :)  )
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: mazi on Tuesday 26 May 20 18:09 BST (UK)
But I still have the letter for my urgent referral, the letter is dated and offers me an appointment in three months time,  would you like to see it.

The consultant who referred me was apologetic, suggested I went to you know who and ask for a check for uveal effusions a rare but complex side effect of my treatment.

Mike
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BushInn1746 on Tuesday 26 May 20 18:13 BST (UK)
Deleted
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: roopat on Tuesday 26 May 20 18:24 BST (UK)
Those of us who feel strongly one way or the other about the Cummings situation are advised to write to our MPs, no use wasting all our energy on here even though I'm the first to enjoy a good rant  ;D


Put it in writing so they can get an accurate picture of the public's feelings (whatever they are). Just address it to your MP, House of Commons, London or better still email them then it can't 'get lost in the post'


Pat
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: mazi on Tuesday 26 May 20 18:40 BST (UK)
Dominic Cummins is a real human being, doing a job as best he can

Good or bad, right or wrong it is my view that he is being unjustly persecuted by the press,  whose sole and only objective is to sell newspapers and make money.

I don’t take sides,  I dislike a witch-hunt


Who would you all like as a replacement for Boris, that would be a constructive discussion

Mike


Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 May 20 18:42 BST (UK)
Even if the Durham Hospital didn't have facilities, there is an excellent ophthalmic A&E at the RVI in Newcastle, where I am. It's only 12 miles from Durham. I've had excellent treatment in the main clinic for the past 13 years.

I'm sure, they would have seen him immediately.

Gadget
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 May 20 18:49 BST (UK)

I don’t take sides, 

 ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 26 May 20 18:54 BST (UK)
Round here the nhs doesn’t “do” eyesight, it’s contracted out to you know who.

They are closed ;D ;D

I am going off topic a bit, but I have to take issue.

My daughter has a rare eye condition. She has been able to attend her regular clinics at the Cumberland Infirmary over the past six weeks, and had treatment for her glaucoma on one occasion.

Her mother in law started to have eye problems about three weeks ago, was seen immediately by the Infirmary, and was operated on last Monday.

So eyesight isn't 'contracted out' up here.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Tuesday 26 May 20 18:55 BST (UK)
Those of us who feel strongly one way or the other about the Cummings situation are advised to write to our MPs, no use wasting all our energy on here even though I'm the first to enjoy a good rant  ;D


Put it in writing so they can get an accurate picture of the public's feelings (whatever they are). Just address it to your MP, House of Commons, London or better still email them then it can't 'get lost in the post'


Pat

Done that already. My MP was interviewed after the PM backed DC and was, to quote a friend "Obviously spitting feathers." She spoke about the number of people in her constituency who had to manage children while they were sick, and referred to the 14 year old who died alone as his parents weren't allowed to visit him. I wrote to congratulate her and asked her to keep up the pressure! 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: BushInn1746 on Tuesday 26 May 20 19:05 BST (UK)
Deleted
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: jillruss on Tuesday 26 May 20 19:07 BST (UK)
Good for her - though she'll probably find she's out on her ear very soon!

In a way, its just as sickening as listening to DC justifying himself listening to the self serving little toadies sorry, Tory MPs who are appearing on tv one after the other, absolutely convinced that DC was entirely in the right and pretty much turning him into some kind of martyr for having to put up with us all disbelieving him!

Did you see the way Tigger Hancock cut off Laura Kuenssberg and Robert Peston today when the questions were being asked? How very democratic!

This government is devoid of shame  - a well placed apology might (just might) ameliorate the situation but I doubt it. They've lost the people and from now on its going to be an uphill struggle for them, although I'm sure they think it will all blow over in a day or two.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: mazi on Tuesday 26 May 20 19:25 BST (UK)
That's not an answer, Mike. I was referred to the eye clinic at the RVI by my GP when I had eye probs. I'm sure DC would have been sent to see them immediately.

Anyway, this is an interesting piece from a former Attorney General:

https://www.jeremywright.org.uk/news/dominic-cummings

(Add - small print so wear your specs  :)  )


Oh that’s an interesting link,  I wish I’d read it before, you are after all my guru.
I shall pay more attention in the future, tho not necessarily always agree  :)


Mike
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: roopat on Tuesday 26 May 20 19:27 BST (UK)
Those of us who feel strongly one way or the other about the Cummings situation are advised to write to our MPs, no use wasting all our energy on here even though I'm the first to enjoy a good rant  ;D


Put it in writing so they can get an accurate picture of the public's feelings (whatever they are). Just address it to your MP, House of Commons, London or better still email them then it can't 'get lost in the post'


Pat

Done that already. My MP was interviewed after the PM backed DC and was, to quote a friend "Obviously spitting feathers." She spoke about the number of people in her constituency who had to manage children while they were sick, and referred to the 14 year old who died alone as his parents weren't allowed to visit him. I wrote to congratulate her and asked her to keep up the pressure! 


Well done, Groom!  ;D
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: arthurk on Tuesday 26 May 20 19:29 BST (UK)
I'm not at all impressed by the impression DC has made over the past few days, and while I can understand his reasoning for heading north, that's about as far as it goes. I can't, like Boris, say he acted out of a parent's concern so everything's good, but I would have to say (and I would have expected a decent person to have admitted) that the motives were good, but on that occasion he made a bad call.

One thing I saw pointed out in a BBC article but I don't think has been mentioned here, is that on the day he ran out of Downing Street because his wife fell ill, later when she felt better he went EDIT: is said to have gone back to work in Downing Street. Yet the advice has always been that if you live with someone with suspected COVID-19 symptoms, the whole household should stay at home for 14 days - not go back to work after a couple of hours. (Or for that matter drive to the other end of the country the next day.) Hmmm.

The BBC article is at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52784290 - it assesses a number of aspects of the affair against the guidelines.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Guy Etchells on Tuesday 26 May 20 19:37 BST (UK)
Also, he has admitted driving a 60 mile round trip 'to test his eyesight'.  That is not acceptable even in normal conditions.  If you consider your eyesight is not good enough to drive, get your eyes tested or do not drive.  These are the rules we ALL abide by. 

Rishile

This is one of those edited parts that changes the meaning of what was said, yes earlier he said that when he was very ill he thought the illness affected his eyesight but he also said he became very weak and at one time he could not stand, his wife talked to him about the wisdom of driving back to London so they decided to take a short drive to see if he could safely manage to drive back.
That to me means the main reason for the test drive was to see if he could cope with the rigours of driving not to check his eyesight.

It is very obvious that there is a lynch mob in media circles out for his head and they are going to take this opportunity to attack him no matter what the truth is.
Cheers
Guy

This is from the transcript:

On Sunday 12 April, 15 days after I had first displayed symptoms, I decided to return to work. My wife was very worried, particularly given my eyesight seemed to have been affected by the disease. She didn't want to risk a nearly 300-mile drive with our child, given how ill I had been. We agreed that we should go for a short drive to see if I could drive safely

How has the meaning been changed? 

As I wrote "That to me means the main reason for the test drive was to see if he could cope with the rigours of driving not to check his eyesight." Particularly as he later (after he had said they had returned home) also stated "...We agreed that if I continued to improve then the next day, we should return to London and I would go back to work."
In other words he and his with were concerned about his general health not just his eyesight, his eyesight could easily be checked by reading a number plate from 20 metres (66ft), the standard police check, but his concentrating spacial awareness etc really requires a short drive which from what he said about half an hour one way equates to roughly 12-15 miles on ordinary roads.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Guy Etchells on Tuesday 26 May 20 19:42 BST (UK)
Those of us who feel strongly one way or the other about the Cummings situation are advised to write to our MPs, no use wasting all our energy on here even though I'm the first to enjoy a good rant  ;D


Put it in writing so they can get an accurate picture of the public's feelings (whatever they are). Just address it to your MP, House of Commons, London or better still email them then it can't 'get lost in the post'


Pat

I have already emailed Sir Keir Starmer about the 6 MPs I mentioned, if I get a reply I will give the gist of it on here
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Jomot on Tuesday 26 May 20 19:42 BST (UK)
But Durham to Barnard Castle is about 25 miles and 40+ minutes, so hardly a 'short drive'. 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Flemming on Tuesday 26 May 20 20:10 BST (UK)
Whilst Dominic Cummings gave his version of events on 25th May his wife - Spectator Commissioning Editor Mary Wakefield - gave her account on BBC Radio 4 Thought for the Day on 25th April and also published a written account in The Spectator at about the same time.  Obviously I can't reproduce the article. It is available online but curiously the BBC (I am told) has deleted the R4 programme.  However here is a brief synopsis of events according to Ms Wakefield annotated with dates  by me in bold type. 

[Dominic] said "I feel weird" and collapsed. I felt breathless, sometimes achy, but Dom couldn't get out of bed. [28 March]

'Day in day out for ten days he had a high fever, with spasms that made the muscles lump and twitch in his legs:[28 March - 6 April]
28 March - high fever & twitching legs. Only limited shallow breathing.
29 March - Ditto
30th March - Ditto
31st March - Ditto.
1st April - ditto
2nd April - "After a week we reached peak corona uncertainty,  day six is a turning point I was told, when you either get better or head for ICU. Was Dom fighting off the bug or was he heading for a ventilator, who knew?"
3rd April -  'I sat on his bed staring at his chest trying to count his breaths per minute. The little oxygen reader we'd bought on Amazon indicated he should be in hospital, but his lips weren't blue and he could talk in full sentences” 

No mention whatsoever of leaving London.  Now according to Cummings' account things were somewhat different because it was his wife who became ill and on 30th March after she had started vomiting he put her and the child in the car and drove 260 miles to Durham.  According to her published account on 25th April he was more or less at death's door on 30th March and they hadn't travelled anywhere because he was too ill to leave his bed.  Curiouser and curiouser.

Has anyone else worked this out - media for instance? Hasn't either him or his wife got to be wrong about the dates?

The Spectator allows free access to two articles as a guest, but it isn't allowing access to the one by Mary Wakefield. It has a more recent article by Nick Cohen dated 25.5.20 that asks why she didn't say in her piece that they'd fled London.

Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 May 20 20:15 BST (UK)
This person is probably the most important person in Government. He's not like the rest of us.  You can't tell me that he couldn't have got  childcare for his son or a Govt pool car with police escort to take him to Durham and bring him back when they were all declared fit*. I'm sure Matt Hancock or someone in the DHSC could have arranged for all the health care/investigations necessary.

* he could have probably worked from Durham when he was better.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 26 May 20 20:21 BST (UK)
Much of the broadcast is quoted in the Daily Mail (direct quotes it seems) of April 25th.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8256551/Fury-Dominic-Cummings-wife-using-BBC-Radio-4s-Thought-Day.html
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 May 20 20:24 BST (UK)
Just a little light relief

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8354163/Benedict-Cumberbatch-isolating-family-luxury-1-700-night-New-Zealand-lodge.html
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: mazi on Tuesday 26 May 20 20:32 BST (UK)
Just a little light relief

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-8354163/Benedict-Cumberbatch-isolating-family-luxury-1-700-night-New-Zealand-lodge.html


And scrolling down further I m delighted to see I don’t need to wear my bra, no mention of the fishnet tights though.    ;D ;D ;D


Mike
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 26 May 20 20:32 BST (UK)
And Matt Damon and his family have been in Dublin for two months. He was filming when the lockdown was enforced.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Greensleeves on Tuesday 26 May 20 20:36 BST (UK)


Has anyone else worked this out - media for instance? Hasn't either him or his wife got to be wrong about the dates?

The Spectator allows free access to two articles as a guest, but it isn't allowing access to the one by Mary Wakefield. It has a more recent article by Nick Cohen dated 25.5.20 that asks why she didn't say in her piece that they'd fled London.

Oh yes, plenty of other people - journalists included - have worked this out.  That's how I came across it.  I read an article about anomalies in the stories of Cummings and Wakefield so I started googling.  Like a lot of us, I have too much time on my hands currently so was only too happy to disappear down that particular rabbit hole.

I was also interested to read that Cummings re-wrote one of his blogs of 2019 when he got back from Durham to make it appear as though he had foretold the coronavirus pandemic.  The article can be seen in the internet archives in its original form, and it shows that it was altered mid April 2020. 

I must say the journalists are doing sterling work on this.  I don't think there is hardly a family in the country who has not been impacted in a major way by the lockdown, and to defend Cummings' behaviour is beyond reprehensible. 

Incidentally you can find an article about Wakefield's article in - of all places - the Daily Mail, and various journalists have quoted extracts.  I have a screenshot but that's on my other machine so can't post it immediately I'm afraid.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Tuesday 26 May 20 20:37 BST (UK)
Much of the broadcast is quoted in the Daily Mail (direct quotes it seems) of April 25th.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8256551/Fury-Dominic-Cummings-wife-using-BBC-Radio-4s-Thought-Day.html

That's interesting as she forgot to mention that in the time between her feeling ill and her husband feeling  ill they had driven from London to Durham! Must affect your memory as well.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Greensleeves on Tuesday 26 May 20 20:48 BST (UK)
But Durham to Barnard Castle is about 25 miles and 40+ minutes, so hardly a 'short drive'.

The Barnard Castle trip was about 60 miles in all and totally illegal if he was having concerns about his eyesight and ability to drive.  Not sure what the current level of fine is for being in charge of a vehicle whilst unfit through medical reasons since it's some years since I've sat on the bench. But I can assure you that any such charge would be taken very seriously, and even more so if the defendant had knowingly and recklessly endangered a child because of their behaviour.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Rena on Tuesday 26 May 20 21:08 BST (UK)
I'm not sure if anyone else remembers Black Wednesday (Sept 1992) but I feel that the vibes are very similar to then.

The latest YouGov poll is out and makes worrying reading for Boris.


I remember black Wednesday, that’s what happens when you choose a nice honest but weak prime minister.

Mike

Sorry, but I can't let this pass without a comment.

My late OH and I were in business at the time and knew that somebody appeared to be playing the market.  Whotever it was had already collapsed the currencies of two smaller countries and it seemed the UK and France would be next in line.  That's the basic, somebody will now possibly enter the debate and explain about the ERM.

This particular speculator had fun collapsing currencies and when the value reached rock bottom he bought up as much as he could at a massive profit.

 It happened that we were next in line, the speculator bought Sterling then suddently sold the lot - this caused panic and other holders of Sterling hurriedly sold their Sterling too hoping that the value hadn't dropped too much.  The value had more or less reached rock bottom despite our government buying up our own Sterling.. JM phoned the German Chancellor at the end of the day and asked him as a matter of urgency to speak with the German Bundesbank, we explained that by quietly giving the German bank UK money/gold the German bank could make a show of buying up Sterling and the market value would steady up and maybe even increase in value.  A few years later the now ex German Chancellor confirmed what JM had asked and our television screen showed his fat face grinning when he said that instead of treating the matter urgently he had waited until the next working day before speaking with the German central bank, but by that time it was too late.   The next weak currently was the French Franc, and as expected the billionaire started his game with the Franc, but guess what; the Germans stepped in immediately and saved the French Franc.

George Soros, the world-renowned billionaire investor, made his name on Black Wednesday by betting against the pound and making a staggering £1 billion.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 May 20 21:33 BST (UK)
I still remember the interest rates going up and up and up
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: confusion on Tuesday 26 May 20 21:34 BST (UK)
Is this the real reason for the vitriolic relentless attack by the MSM?

https://britannianews.co.uk/2020/05/26/pro-eu-establishment-angered-dominic-cummings-brought-down-a-pro-eu-establishment-plot-to-extend-the-transition-period-organised-while-he-and-boris-fell-ill/?utm
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Rena on Tuesday 26 May 20 21:37 BST (UK)
But Durham to Barnard Castle is about 25 miles and 40+ minutes, so hardly a 'short drive'.

The Barnard Castle trip was about 60 miles in all and totally illegal if he was having concerns about his eyesight and ability to drive.  Not sure what the current level of fine is for being in charge of a vehicle whilst unfit through medical reasons since it's some years since I've sat on the bench. But I can assure you that any such charge would be taken very seriously, and even more so if the defendant had knowingly and recklessly endangered a child because of their behaviour.

Aside from the fact of feeling unwell, not seeing clearly, etc., etc.  one doctor on TV today was quite furious that the parents had sat in the confined space of a car with a four year old child for several hours, thus overloading the child's immune system with the Covid Virus - such an overload to the system could have killed the child and/or caused serious damage.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Rena on Tuesday 26 May 20 21:41 BST (UK)
I still remember the interest rates going up and up and up

Interest rates plus rate of inflation !   Our small overdraft became worryingly large.

Unlike today when the monthly mortgage payment is deducted upon receipt, I think in those days those with a mortgate paid monthly but the payments were only deducted from the annual total which had burgeoned due to inflation and interest rates.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Rena on Tuesday 26 May 20 21:58 BST (UK)
Is this the real reason for the vitriolic relentless attack by the MSM?

https://britannianews.co.uk/2020/05/26/pro-eu-establishment-angered-dominic-cummings-brought-down-a-pro-eu-establishment-plot-to-extend-the-transition-period-organised-while-he-and-boris-fell-ill/?utm

Which minion did they think would sign such a deal I wonder.   I'd be interested to see if it included handing over part of our waters again. 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Greensleeves on Tuesday 26 May 20 21:59 BST (UK)
That's a very good point about the car journey with a child, Rena.  It is interesting that the degree of exposure to the virus does seem to have a huge impact on the seriousness of the infection if it is passed on.  This is why, I believe, so many NHS staff have become so seriously ill after contracting covid-19. 

Britannia News , cited by Confusion, by the way is a minority interest  publication which thrives on promoting conspiracy theories and racism,  and confusing the electorate with its own agenda.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 26 May 20 23:47 BST (UK)
And Matt Damon and his family have been in Dublin for two months. He was filming when the lockdown was enforced.

But I don't think he was in an Uncivil War. Cumberbatch played Cummings  :)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: majm on Wednesday 27 May 20 00:14 BST (UK)
 ;D  While over in Australia,  we have just had a current positive to the virus develop in a person who was a passenger in the cruise ship, Ruby Princess, ten WEEKS ago. 

JM
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: youngtug on Wednesday 27 May 20 00:18 BST (UK)
How many deaths, directly and indirectly will be the result of his arrogance
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Wednesday 27 May 20 00:19 BST (UK)
;D  While over in Australia,  we have just had a current positive to the virus develop in a person who was a passenger in the cruise ship, Ruby Princess, ten WEEKS ago. 

JM

Have they been in complete isolation since then, otherwise that is worrying?
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: majm on Wednesday 27 May 20 00:34 BST (UK)
;D  While over in Australia,  we have just had a current positive to the virus develop in a person who was a passenger in the cruise ship, Ruby Princess, ten WEEKS ago. 

JM

Have they been in complete isolation since then, otherwise that is worrying?

Exactly ... Huge controversy is about to develop in Cairns in Queensland ... 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 27 May 20 01:28 BST (UK)
Britannia News , cited by Confusion, by the way is a minority interest  publication which thrives on promoting conspiracy theories and racism,  and confusing the electorate with its own agenda.

It's not alone. They use "dog-whistle" words and phrases. I haven't come across that one before.
For anyone confused or concerned about truth and accuracy, I recommend Full Fact website.
https://fullfact.org
https://twitter.com/FullFact
The latter includes a test yourself on judging truth. I scored 6 out of 10.
There are other fact-check websites.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 27 May 20 09:51 BST (UK)
This is not fake news

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14861

 :)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: groom on Wednesday 27 May 20 10:06 BST (UK)
I give up. The Government have announced there won’t be a review of people fined for travelling for child care, therefore suggesting it was illegal. Yet it was legal for DC to do it! If that isn’t one rule for you and another for us, I don’t know what is. 
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: pharmaT on Wednesday 27 May 20 10:15 BST (UK)
I give up. The Government have announced there won’t be a review of people fined for travelling for child care, therefore suggesting it was illegal. Yet it was legal for DC to do it! If that isn’t one rule for you and another for us, I don’t know what is.

I just can't get over the entire cabinet going on TV and effectively telling me I don't love my family enough, that I don't care enough that I am an unfit parent because I categorically would not do the same.  Childcare to keep going to work has been so difficult the past couple of months to both sort childcare and maintain lockdown adherence, shielding advice and still work my rostered shifts but it was only hard because I don't care enough and am not a good enough parent.  I've also had to tell someone that they cannot come and visit their very sick relative, that they cannot have a full funeral so what they're saying is that I have inadvertently told these people that they don't care enough (totally not my intention, my intention was to save lives).  There was light at the end of the tunnel, case numbers were falling but now people will wholescale rather than stepwise ease lockdown and we won't be back to square one, as we're coming from a higher baseline the potential is for a significantly higher peak.  This feels like the straw that broke the camels back, it has pushed me over the edge.  A lot of tears, a lot of self punishment because I feel like I must be evil, a failure as a mum and even as a person.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 27 May 20 10:19 BST (UK)
And Matt Damon and his family have been in Dublin for two months. He was filming when the lockdown was enforced.

But I don't think he was in an Uncivil War. Cumberbatch played Cummings  :)

I know but he was/is enjoying Ireland  ;)
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Gan Yam on Wednesday 27 May 20 10:27 BST (UK)
But Durham to Barnard Castle is about 25 miles and 40+ minutes, so hardly a 'short drive'.

The Barnard Castle trip was about 60 miles in all and totally illegal if he was having concerns about his eyesight and ability to drive.  Not sure what the current level of fine is for being in charge of a vehicle whilst unfit through medical reasons since it's some years since I've sat on the bench. But I can assure you that any such charge would be taken very seriously, and even more so if the defendant had knowingly and recklessly endangered a child because of their behaviour.

Aside from the fact of feeling unwell, not seeing clearly, etc., etc.  one doctor on TV today was quite furious that the parents had sat in the confined space of a car with a four year old child for several hours, thus overloading the child's immune system with the Covid Virus - such an overload to the system could have killed the child and/or caused serious damage.

Apart from putting your child in the car for several hours, when his wife wrote her article about the their time suffering from the virus, she never mentioned, as far as I am aware, that their much adored child spent a night in hospital and was tested (negative) for coronavirus.  Surely most parents would have considered this the most devastating incident of the whole period.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Wednesday 27 May 20 10:30 BST (UK)


I just can't get over the entire cabinet going on TV and effectively telling me I don't love my family enough, that I don't care enough that I am an unfit parent because I categorically would not do the same. 

I don't remember them mentioning you.
Title: Re: General discussion on current situation
Post by: trystan on Wednesday 27 May 20 10:34 BST (UK)
I've locked the topic as it's got too long. Feel free to start a new one. :)