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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: telephonist on Wednesday 27 May 20 07:05 BST (UK)
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Is it possible to order a marriage certificate online and receive it as a PDF document and one can with a birth certificate please?
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Simple answer no only birth and death certificates are available as PDFs.
Regards panda
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Thanks
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Is it possible to order a marriage certificate online and receive it as a PDF document and one can with a birth certificate please?
As panda40 stayed the simple answer is no, however if the marriage was in a church you may be able to get the vicar to email a copy of the entry in his marriage register to you as a pdf file.
It is possible in theory (even though some sources claim the newer registers are the copyright of the GRO) as the church register is a church document and not a civil document.
Many church registers are online up to relatively recent years, but sod's law states the one you require will not be but it is still worth searching.
Cheers
Guy
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As others have said the GRO do not offer the pdf option for marriages.
If the marriage was in a church then lots of county archives will provide a copy from the parish register - in my experience its cheaper than the GRO certs and certainly (in more normal times) I can vouch for getting Parish register copies from both Co Durham and Northumberland - but don't have experience of getting them from other counties. The best part is its an image of the register they actually signed on the day they married so a parish register entry would have their original signatures (providing they were able to sign that is).
The above does depend on the time frame, more recent registers will not yet have been deposited with archives.
Boo
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Hello Boo, Thanks for your reply to my request. The marriage i am wanting I found on UKBDM and it says Tiverton Dec 1846 10 391
Would it be Devon archives to make the request with and would this be sufficient information to give them?
Regards Telephonist
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Thanks Guy, I do not know if it was a Church wedding though!.
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There is a site where you can use the GRO ref to see if you can find out which church it was.
http://www.marriage-locator.co.uk
It only covers Anglican churches.
Sadly in this case putting in the year, quarter, vol and page number does not give a result. This could mean they were either married in a non conformist church or a civil ceremony at a registrar's office.
Devon Anglican parish registers are available on Find My Past and I am not getting any results for any of the names for that ref. I also tried Family Search and still no joy.
So it looks like in this case the only show in town would be a cert from the GRO.
Sorry, but hopefully the info about Marriage Locator may help you with others in the future.
Boo
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Local Archives do not hold any BMD certificates.
You need to order either from the GRO, or the relevant District Registrar.
However, District Registrars use a different indexing system ::)
The Devon office will not be able to use the Volume (10) and Page number (391) you quoted.
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Thanks for your reply, seems like i will just go to the GRO direct.
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Local Archives do not hold any BMD certificates.
Just to clarify, I realise that archives do not hold or issue 'certificates' BUT if the marriage was in an Anglican Church the Parish Registers (which are the original source document) will usually (depending on time frame) be held by archives.
Boo
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Hello again, So before i go ordering a certificate which Archives office shoud i try?
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As the marriage does not seem to have been in an Anglican church your only option is to order a marriage certificate from the GRO.
For marriages they only have the paper certificate option, they don't do pdfs by email for marriages.
Boo
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Try this -
https://www.devon.gov.uk/registrationservice/registrationoffices/mid-devon-registration-office
The information you will need - names of bride and groom and 1846 as the year.
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Do you have the names of the couple you are searching for please as findmypast has some Devon parish records and I will have a look to see if they have the one you are after.
Regards
Panda
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It may well be on FindMyPast - but if you do want a certificate at the moment I would try ordering from the local registration service rather than GRO. Not all districts are currently offering a service, but Devon seems to be.
https://www.devon.gov.uk/registrationservice/certificates/apply-for-a-copy-certificate
GRO are taking at least 6 weeks for paper certificates, I still have one order outstanding from the 6th April.
A local office supplied a certificate for me a couple of weeks ago within a few days.
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Thankyou for your reply Anthony, I have just looked and found a reference to a marriage on Find My Past but dont have an account. Its for Edward HOLE 1846 Tiverton Devon in England and Wales marriages 1837-2005.
The GRO has this as HALL and TOOZE and as my ancestor is HALL i am hoping this might be a transcription error, I dont want to waste money getting the certificate if this is the case, any ideas or maybe someone on this site could access the record for me please?
Kind regards Telephonist
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Hello Panda, Your reply came in as i was answering Anthony above. The couple are Edward HALL and Elizabeth Tooze, GRO has then as this and Find my Past has Edward as HOLE but i think its the same Edward.
Any help appreciated.
Goodnight .
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Hi
I have had a quick look and findmypast only has the GRO index not the parish ,arraign for this couple.
Have you tried familysearch to see if they have a record?
Regards
Panda
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Unfortunately that is just a reference to the GRO marriage index, not an image of the marriage entry.
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Thankyou for your reply Anthony, I have just looked and found a reference to a marriage on Find My Past but dont have an account. Its for Edward HOLE 1846 Tiverton Devon in England and Wales marriages 1837-2005.
The GRO has this as HALL and TOOZE and as my ancestor is HALL i am hoping this might be a transcription error, I dont want to waste money getting the certificate if this is the case, any ideas or maybe someone on this site could access the record for me please?
Kind regards Telephonist
Where did you see that the GRO have this marriage as HALL and TOOZE ?
The ref you gave was Q4 Tiverton 10 391. I checked on FreeBMD and their transcription and the scan of the GRO index both have HOLE as the groom's surname.
Before you pay for a cert that may not be the right one, do you have this couple on a later census? Did they have any children? If you can give us more details, we may be able to help with alternates to this Edward HOLE cert?
Boo
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A few years ago, I ordered a copy of marriage record from Staffordshire record office, for C of E church marriage in the 1940s. I had previously contacted the church but they no longer had the register as they had finished the book some years earlier and sent it to the RO. I did not get a photo copy from the RO, I got a record copied out from the register by a clerk, so not the original signatures.
As s*d's law would have it, after paying for the copy, the "original" turned up (by "original" I mean the one given to the bride and groom at the time of the marriage). On the "original" the bride's age had been left out, yet signed by someone as a true and correct record of the entry in the register.
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A few years ago, I ordered a copy of marriage record from Staffordshire record office, for C of E church marriage in the 1940s. I had previously contacted the church but they no longer had the register as they had finished the book some years earlier and sent it to the RO. I did not get a photo copy from the RO, I got a record copied out from the register by a clerk, so not the original signatures.
As s*d's law would have it, after paying for the copy, the "original" turned up (by "original" I mean the one given to the bride and groom at the time of the marriage). On the "original" the bride's age had been left out, yet signed by someone as a true and correct record of the entry in the register.
For a church (CofE) wedding there would be two original registers - both get signed by the bride/groom.
One is kept by the church, and when full usually gets sent to the county archive. These are the ones you may see images of on Ancestry/FindMyPast etc.
The other, when full, goes to the superintendent registrar of the district concerned and put in their vault.
Most certificates produced these days from old registers will be written out by hand - there is no requirement for the entry to be photocopied. It is possible to do that way although a bit tricky, and some offices may do it if asked, but they don't have to.
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i have found two children which look like they may belong to the Hall / Tooze couple. Elizabeth 1847 and Edward 1850 - certainly gave a lot of thought when they name children, bot Tiverton and Dulverton RD.
On the reg entry are 4 names - 2 couples, are we sure "Hole" goes with Tooze?
added
Now found a child for the Broom / Pearce combination - 1847 - Tiv and Dulv
So loks like Hole (Hall) / Tooze is right.
No sign of any of them on 1851 - no more children after 1850. Did they emigrate?
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For a church (CofE) wedding there would be two original registers - both get signed by the bride/groom.
One is kept by the church, and when full usually gets sent to the county archive. These are the ones you may see images of on Ancestry/FindMyPast etc.
The other, when full, goes to the superintendent registrar of the district concerned and put in their vault.
Most certificates produced these days from old registers will be written out by hand - there is no requirement for the entry to be photocopied. It is possible to do that way although a bit tricky, and some offices may do it if asked, but they don't have to.
Thanks for the explanation, Anthony.
So if the clerk hadn't been diligent in recording the marriage details exactly the same in the two registers, it might lead to a discrepancy in later copies of the record issued by a Register office and the Certificate the Bride and groom took away.
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Hello again and thankyou for all your replies. I bought the PDF for the two children mentioned earlier Elizabeth and Edward 1847 and 1850, both listed as Hall and mother Tooze.
Others in earlier comments tried to locate these children further along for me with nothing definite.
Elizabeth was "spotted" visiting a Cotterell/Tooze family in 1871. Nothing for Edward who I think is my great grandfather and came to NZ abt 1873. I know he married in 1877 but no details to help on his cert other than Devon and his age.
I thought I would go backwards and look for this possible parents marriage 1846 (in the meantime I have just found a baptism in 1828 for an Edward HALL in Devon Baptism Parish registers .
Any chance of finding further information re this?
I have had my DNA done but no matches showing at this stage!
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Was it this baptism:
7 December 1828 - Edward son of Thomas (Shoemaker) and Sarah - Yealmpton.
Possible marriage - Yealmpton - 20 February 1825 - Thomas Hall, Sojourner, and Sarah Selley.
Possible siblings - all children of Thomas (Shoemaker) and Sarah of Yealmpton
Mary - 18 September 1825
Sarah Ann - 17 June 1827
Jane - 3 October 1830
Thomas Henry - 10 June 1832
Elizabeth - 3 November 1833
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Hello again, Thanks for your reply, I will . information with all the rest until i receive the marriage certificate and post the results to see if i can advance this search further.
Thanks everyone for all the help given.
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Others in earlier comments tried to locate these children further along for me with nothing definite.
Elizabeth was "spotted" visiting a Cotterell/Tooze family in 1871. Nothing for Edward who I think is my great grandfather and came to NZ abt 1873. I know he married in 1877 but no details to help on his cert other than Devon and his age.
In 1871, Elizabeth Hall visitor age 22 born Cullompton is a visitor with the family of Thomas Tooze b 1833, his wife Caroline, 6 x Tooze children and Thomas Cotterell b 1787 father in law. They are living in Holcombe Regis.
Thomas Tooze and Caroline Cottrell appear on same page of marriage reg index Q4 1853 Tiverton district.
Thomas Tooze is on 1851 and 1841 censuses with parents William and Sophia. Likely to be the William Tooze and Sophia Disney who married in Halberton on 8 Sept 1831.
William Tooze bapt Holcombe regis 3 April 1809 s/o Thomas and Joan.
In 1841 Caroline Cotterell is with Thomas Cottrell, Sarah Cottrell (assumed parents) and 4 Cotterell children (assumed siblings). In the same household is an Elizabeth Tooze b abt 1821.
There is a death for an Elizabeth Hall age 29 reg in Tiverton district Q2 1850. This is the same quarter and place that the birth of Edward hall was registered mmn Tooze.
Next was a search for an Elizabeth b Cullompton abt 1848 in 1851 census. (Elizabeth birth reg Q3 1847, so would not have had her birthday in 1851, so age would give apparent year of birth of 1848).
No Hall but an Elizabeth Hole age 3 b Cullomptom as lodger in Perkins household. Also a lodger in same household (assumed her father) is Edward Hole widower b Cullompton abt 1814.
Looking for Cullompton baptisms for Edward Hole / Hall, I can't find any around 1814, The nearest are Edward Hole 13 Feb 1825 s/o Edward and Rosamund and
Edward Hall 28 Mar 1824 s/o James and Sarah
I think Edward Hole with assumed father Edward and assumed siblings William and Sarah are on 1841 census - Piece 225 Book 3 Folio 3 Page 1, but can't find Edward Hall.
Edward Hole wid and daughter Elizabeth in 1851 look a good fit, given that the marriage has Hole (assuming correct one). If he had a broad Devon accent, would Hall sound similar to Hole or vice versa? And if he wasn't literate he couldn't check that it had been spelt correctly.
And where is Edward jnr in 1851? He would be just under a year old - perhaps other relatives looking after him.
Not sure of the Thomas Tooze relationship to Elizabeth Tooze (b 1821 ish)
Two candidates in Holcombe Regis- one bapt 25 dec 1821 d/o John and Christian (occ chairmaker) and the other bapt 14 Oct 1821 d/o Sarah Tooze spinster.
Hope some of this turns out to be some use. Will try to find Elizabeth Hall in 1861
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Thanks so much to you and others for your help here. I have now ordered the marriage cert and GRO says June 22nd so a long wait. Will post the results when they arrive. Thankyou. Maybe sometime people dont want to be found.! No DNA results lead me to further ideas as yet.
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Marriage certificate ordered 30 May was dispatched 7th July so hopefully will arrive in NZ quite soon now!
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Marriage cert finally arrived today.
Will attach for anyones perusal. No help really, no father mentioned for Elizabeth Tooze either and seems Edward is HOLE not Hall, which is different on the two childrens birth certs i got, they are HALL with father Edward Halland Mother Elizabeth Tooze, possibly yet another family??
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There is a site where you can use the GRO ref to see if you can find out which church it was.
http://www.marriage-locator.co.uk
It only covers Anglican churches.
Sadly in this case putting in the year, quarter, vol and page number does not give a result. This could mean they were either married in a non conformist church or a civil ceremony at a registrar's office.
The coverage for this website is very limited. I have never yet found a church using it. I have tested it with many examples which I have certs for and which were definitely in a C of E church. So if you use it and don't get a result, don't always assume the ceremony was at a register office or a non C of E church.
In this particular case it has turned out to be in a parish church after all.
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There is a site where you can use the GRO ref to see if you can find out which church it was.
http://www.marriage-locator.co.uk
It only covers Anglican churches.
Sadly in this case putting in the year, quarter, vol and page number does not give a result. This could mean they were either married in a non conformist church or a civil ceremony at a registrar's office.
The coverage for this website is very limited. I have never yet found a church using it. I have tested it with many examples which I have certs for and which were definitely in a C of E church. So if you use it and don't get a result, don't always assume the ceremony was at a register office or a non C of E church.
In this particular case it has turned out to be in a parish church after all.
Apologies.
I do acknowledge that it isn't 100% certain, though the coverage for the counties I use mainly seems to be fairly accurate (though there are always exceptions to every rule).
Its worth a shot though and as no one seems to have been able to find the marriage elsewhere then the GRO was the only option.
Unsure about Devon archives but most require the church name for a straightforward copy order. If they have to try to find the marriage without knowing which church then it changes from a copy order to a research order - with a corresponding hike in fee - making the GRO option look cheap in comparison.
Boo