RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: gnorman on Sunday 31 May 20 09:41 BST (UK)
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Hi all, thanks to another member of Rootschat (Comberton) I have been able to locate two articles which briefly mention the burials of John Jones, Musician &Saddler, and his son Luther Jones in the town of Mold.
John Jones died on 29th June 1856. The article simply says he was 'buried in Mold on 2nd July 1856'.
Luther Jones died in April 1891. The article says he was buried in 'the free church burial ground with full military honours' on tuesday 14th April (he was a bandmaster for the army and then a Saddler).
I am aware that John's burial pre-dates any cemetery and wondered if anyone was able to help me locate the graves at all please.
Many thanks, Luke
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Sorry I was not clear, the burial information for John Jones was not part of the newspaper clip. There is a burial on FindMyPast.
The transcription says place Bistre but the image of the register just says Mold.
I will look for Luther.
If you would like to PM with your email I will send the image, okay if you prefer not
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Hi,
A map for you.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/FLN/Bistre
Maggsie
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I can only enter a note of caution with some of the records on FindMyPast.In some counties of Wales the Location given is wrong and misleading.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Thank you for your help everyone. I am just looking at buying the death certificate for John from GRO - there are two possibilities one in Hollywell and the other in Ruthin Union. They both seem a similar distance to Bistre so I am a little stumped.
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As William has said, the FindMyPast index for some of the Welsh Parishes are erroneous.
I've looked at the image and it states clearly that it is the Mold parish burial records and that John Jones was 86 and his abode was Mold. He was buried on March 31st, as you have probably seen.
There are no records for Luther's burial in the non-conformist records.
Gadget
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Forgot to say that Mold was a sub district of Holywell.
Add - no results for a death for Luther in 1891 on the North Wales BMD
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A Luther Jones's death was registered at Nantwich, June Q 1891,aged 49
Add - this fits with your account:
Notice under Mold, Denbighshire Free Press 18 April 1891
The Late Militia Bandmaster
On Saturday last three passed away at Crewe at the age of 49 Mr Luther Jones, etc.
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Thank you Gadget. I'm wondering if there may be a gravestone somewhere as they seem to have been well respected and in good jobs. There is no Will for either that I can find and I'm guessing the burial for John is in a churchyard as this was before the cemeteries there seem to have opened. The grave listing that Comberton provided says Bistre but does not say where, does anyone have any idea how I could trace a grave or gravestone?
Thanks, luke
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John was definitely buried in Mold. As I said:
I've looked at the image and it states clearly that it is the Mold parish burial records and that John Jones was 86 and his abode was Mold. He was buried on March 31st, as you have probably seen.
Clwyd FH have produced some monumental inscription booklets for some of the parishes:
http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/publications/otherpubs.htm
I think someone also started a project which was to photograph most of the grave yards. I'm not sure the url so I did a quick google:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pjq/
Gadget
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There might be something here:
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/FLN/Mold#Cemeteries
Also scroll through the Churches/chapels listings
Similarly with Bistre
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/FLN/Bistre#Cemeteries
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This is the top of the page for John's burial entry, just to prove that FindMyPast index was wrong.
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Still trying to help from a distance
https://www.flintshire.gov.uk/en/Resident/Funerals,-Cremations--Bereavement/Home.aspx
You could contact them
https://www.flintshire.gov.uk/en/Resident/Contact-Us/General-Enquiries.aspx
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Thank you Gadget, I have emailed St Matthew's and have been told it is unlikely he is buried there so will follow your lead.
John was only 59 when he died though according to a newspaper article provided by a member her and was buried as you say in Mold, Flintshire but on 2nd July 1856.
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Somehow the ages don't seem to add up. I think the one that was buried in 1856 might be Luther's grandfather~
John is given as 86 at his burial in 1856, so born circa 1770.
He is on the 1841, aged 70, with wife Elizabeth and two elder children.
Luther was 49 at death so born 1841-2.
Two doors away, there is also a John Jones, sadler, aged 45 (1841 rounding), with wife Ellen and a 2 day old son called what looks like Nuthwood (transcribed as Nuthord). i don't see the family on subsequent censuses.
1841 census ref - High Street Mod, HO107/1410/12/6/4
Gadget
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I've just seen your previous post and note that John was 59 when he died. I'll check it out as I think, as I've suggested, the one that Comberton found might well have been his grandfather (aged 86 at burial in 1856)
Gadget
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Yes - just found the 1856, John the younger - also at Mold not Bistre
July 3, John Jones, Mold, 59
Gadget
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Gadget you may just have done me a huge favour, if you are correct (and it does look good doesnt it) perhaps father and son are buried together after having both died in the same year and the burial records looking (at least at the top) the very same. The Bistre thing came apparently from the transcript with the burial record rather than on the record itself.
Thank you.
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Things have got a bit confused I think because this originated on another topic seeking the death of the John Jones who was a saddler. The 1856 burial I found, aged 59, agreed with the newspaper report of his funeral. It did say Bistre on the transcription of the burial, as does the 86 year old's burial, but only Mold on the images. As you say a mistake.
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Gadget you may just have done me a huge favour, if you are correct (and it does look good doesnt it) perhaps father and son are buried together after having both died in the same year and the burial records looking (at least at the top) the very same. The Bistre thing came apparently from the transcript with the burial record rather than on the record itself.
Thank you.
There are many parish records in Denbighshire and Montgomeryshire* that I know of that have been indexed to the wrong parish on FindMyPast. You have to examine the image to get the correct entry. Most of my Flintshire ancestors were from the southern part, which seems to be accurate!
* and other Welsh counties that I've seen people make comment about.
Gadget