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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Lisajb on Sunday 31 May 20 14:55 BST (UK)
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I have in my possession a couple of bibles belonging to my father. One has an Australian address written inside the back cover - Ryan Street (and a house number), Footscray, Victoria W11.
There’s a date written in the front of the bible, 28.4.47
Is it possible to find out who was living there around that date?
Thanks
Lisa
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The Australian electoral rolls on Ancestry allow you to specify a year (the closest are 1943 or 1949) then move on to select district and subdistrict.
You then end up with alphabetical lists of names. I imagine it will be quite a task to go through all those listed, and there is no guarantee that the any person found with that address in either 1943 or 1949 was also there in 1947 (unless they were there in both 43 and 49, then you could assume they were also there in 47.) :)
I'm afraid I don't know what district Footscray would have come under in that era. Someone local might know.
It seems strange for there to be an address but no name in the bible, unless the address was a public building or some such place where books might be shared. Have you looked on google maps, though the area is likely to be much changed over the years?
Added: reading your post again - I can understand the date at the front of the bible is possibly the date it was given to someone. Having an address but no name inside the back cover makes me wonder if it was not the address of the owner of the bible, and might have just been a doodle by someone who didn't have a piece of paper to hand. Just speculation without seeing the writing.
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I’ve looked on google maps, the address currently seems to be a private residence, although I’m not sure that the property dates back to 1947.
There are some other notations in this bible which may or may not be relevant, I’ll see if I can get a scan.
I’m thinking was it a relatives address? Dad had been in the Navy but I cannot recall him mentioning Australia. He was born in 1931, would he have been old enough to join up in 1947? Or someone he met during his Naval service? I don’t have his naval records; his three wives are still alive, I think there might be some debate as to which of is the next of kin!
It’s a Church of Scotland bible and we’re Bristolian born and bred, so how he came by it is another mystery. He has neatly printed his name in it though. ??? ???
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Hi - what is the house number?
M
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6
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There's this person in a will dated 1946
'...and Bernard John Bourke of 6 Ryan street Footscray laborer the executors....will dated...1946...'
1947 'Advertising', The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957), 2 October, p. 15. , viewed 01 Jun 2020, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article22511258
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Bernard John Bourke is at a different address in 1949, and Ancestry doesn't seem to have electoral rolls between 1943 and 1949, so it may not have been him there in 1947.
M
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I understand that Find My Past Australia has the 1946 Electoral Rolls for Victoria.
JM
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That’s a real puzzle Lisa. My father was also born in 1931 - he was too young to be in WW2. :)
Is there a date of publication in the bible?
Do you have any family in Australia? It makes sense for it to perhaps to have been a gift from family. If, to your knowledge, your father did not go to Australia, could other family have done so and brought it back for him? Possibly during WW2?
Is the address or date written in your father’s handwriting?
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I understand that Find My Past Australia has the 1946 Electoral Rolls for Victoria.
JM
No Bernard Bourke on the 1946 Maribyrnong Electoral Roll, and Find My Past doesn't provide for street searches, which Ancestry does.
M
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BCOF British Commonwealth Occupational Forces 1945-1952 Japan .... So R&R would likely involve RN ships taking Army personnel to ports with the realm of the British Empire....
JM
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I’ve looked on google maps, the address currently seems to be a private residence, although I’m not sure that the property dates back to 1947.
No, not a house built in the the 40s.
Jamjar
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There's this person in a will dated 1946
'...and Bernard John Bourke of 6 Ryan street Footscray laborer the executors....will dated...1946...'
1947 'Advertising', The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957), 2 October, p. 15. , viewed 01 Jun 2020, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article22511258
Looks like she and Bernard were related:
15320/1875 BOURKE Honora Ellen mother Margaret KITTSON father BOURKE Michael born DONALD
20355/1947 BAKER Honora Ellen mother Margaret KITSON father BOURKE Michael born WITCHIPOOL died DONALD aged 72
I think this is him:
3618/1979 BOURKE Bernard John mother Nora Honora BAKER father BOURKE Bernard John born Donald died Bacchus Marsh aged 76.
However: 8270/1903 BOURKE Bernard Vincent Dalt mother BOURKE Norah Ellen at BENDIGO
Marriage: 959/1924 BAKER Albert to BOURKE Hanora Ellen
Buried at Donald Cemetery, VIC : BAKER Albert Thomas, Honora Ellen
Possible death:
16633/1946 BAKER Albert Thomas mother Mary Ann VAN-EVERY father BAKER John born GLEN PATRICK VIA ELMHURST died DONALD aged 67
Jamjar
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Bernard John Bourke is at a different address in 1949, and Ancestry doesn't seem to have electoral rolls between 1943 and 1949, so it may not have been him there in 1947.
M
Would he be there with an Agnes, Matthew?
In 1932, there was a J. Grubb at the address.
Jamjar
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Bernard John Bourke is at a different address in 1949, and Ancestry doesn't seem to have electoral rolls between 1943 and 1949, so it may not have been him there in 1947.
M
Would he be there with an Agnes, Matthew?
In 1932, there was a J. Grubb at the address.
Jamjar
1949 electoral roll for Gellibrand > Footscray South
Bourke, Bernard John, 44 Albert st, labourer
Bourke, Agnes Blanche Ellen, 66 Napier st, home duties
the only Bourkes in this roll
1954 electoral roll for Gellibrand > Footscray South
Bourke, Bernard John, 44 Albert st, labourer
(no Agnes)
1968 Ballarat > Bacchus Marsh
Bourke, Bernard John, 3 King st, labourer
Bourke, Agnes Blanche E, 3 King st, home duties
Bourke, P... J..., 3 King st, waitress
(quick look only, possibly other years)
Death notice for Agnes Blanche wife of Bernard John (Dec)
https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/tributes/notice/death-notices/bourke-agnes-blanche/3448996/
M
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Thank you, M.
15551/1947 BOURKE Bernard John to LANG Agnes
Jamjar
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That’s a real puzzle Lisa. My father was also born in 1931 - he was too young to be in WW2. :)
Is there a date of publication in the bible?
Do you have any family in Australia? It makes sense for it to perhaps to have been a gift from family. If, to your knowledge, your father did not go to Australia, could other family have done so and brought it back for him? Possibly during WW2?
Is the address or date written in your father’s handwriting?
Ancestors yes - were transported, some went by their own choice.
Handwriting - hard to say, possibly not.
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Here are some pictures of the bible. Its a fifth edition, pocket size, first printed 1929, with reprints in 1932, 1936, 1937, 1939, 1940, 1941 and 1943
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The address
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And the front of it
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I’ve no idea what these mean either!
V2C
MBMB
MBJW
??? ???
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The Church of Scotland Huts may refer to WW1 when they were set up in France or WW2 when the church also set up huts in a number of different countries.
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1946 electoral roll
Coats, Alma Marion, 6 Ryan st, home duties
MyHeritage suggests that Alma, born Warracknabeal Victoria 1899, married Clarence Lancer Coats in 1920. Clarence died in 1940
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1946 electoral roll
Coats, Alma Marion, 6 Ryan st, home duties
MyHeritage suggests that Alma, born Warracknabeal Victoria 1899, married Clarence Lancer Coats in 1920. Clarence died in 1940
Also at the same address in 1949, so very likely to have been there in 1947.
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None of the names found so far seem to have any connection. Thanks for your hard work though Matthew.
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Fascinating thread, though I'm sorry I can't really offer any help.
Alma COATS was fined for not having a wireless license in 1942
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article245126327
and info re husband Clarence Lancer COATS (intestate) 1940
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article204389689
Just to add, my father was also born 1931 and often mentioned being in what I assumed was the Citizen Military Force (Army Reserve) around the end of WWII, getting extra rations and learning to drive.
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1946 electoral roll
Coats, Alma Marion, 6 Ryan st, home duties
MyHeritage suggests that Alma, born Warracknabeal Victoria 1899, married Clarence Lancer Coats in 1920. Clarence died in 1940
Forgot to include Alma's maiden name - Wilkinson
Also at 6 Ryan st in 1946 - Wilkinson, Adelina Margaret, textile worker
(died aged 87y Vic reg 12041/1972, F Thomas WILKINSON, M Frances ORILEY)
M
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HEAVILY modified by me
1942 Electoral Roll
Alma Marion COATS 6 Ryan St, home duties
AND one other same surname as Alma, a female, a presser. You needed to be aged 21 and over to be on the roll.
JM
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Army enlistment record for Clarence Lancer Coats
Of possible interest is his date of birth given as 23 April, same as on the bible
Coats, Clarence Lance; Army Number - 317813; Date of birth - 23 April 1902
barcode 9270937
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=9270937
Edit: URL updated
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HEAVILY modified by me
1942 Electoral Roll
Alma Marion COATS 6 Ryan St, home duties
AND one other same surname as Alma, a female, a presser. You needed to be aged 21 and over to be on the roll.
JM
Ailsa Marjorie COATS (born 1921) married Eric O'KEEFE (born 1919) in 1942
The 1942 roll shows Eric O'Keefe, presser, living at 1 Leeds st, Footscray, not far from Ryan st, and the home of the Woolfe family.
Eric died in 2002 and Ailsa in 2014 (Altona Memorial Park)
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Probably not that helpful but according to his death notice Clarence COATS also had a connection with Donald.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/204393564 1940
COATS. — On September 3, Clarence Lancer; third son of Sam and Mabel Coats (Donald), loving brother of Eric, Percy, Vln, Bob (deceased) 'and Melva.
I cannot see a notice mentioning Alma. There is no Funeral Notice for Clarence in that issue of The Age.
Judith
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I think this is a mystery that will never be solved. I’ve looked at dads immediate family on both his mother’s and fathers side, and none of them came to Australia. Thank you to everyone for your interest and input - it’s much appreciated.
LISA :)