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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Hardy8824 on Thursday 11 June 20 14:06 BST (UK)

Title: Mystery woman!
Post by: Hardy8824 on Thursday 11 June 20 14:06 BST (UK)
Hi there, my Grandma's cousin and I have spent years trying to trace a lady called Martha Lee, here is the story..

Martha Lee born 1871 in Shifnal Shopshire to parents George Henry Lee [1849] & Rachael Deakin [1850]

She appeared on the 1881 census aged 9 living on 'Shrewsby Road' Madeley, Shropshire.

She married my third Great Grandad Joseph Aspland in 1891 Oldham, St Stephen and All Martyrs, Manchester, Lancashire

They had two boys Joseph Aspland 25 July 1891 & George Henry Aspland 21 October 1892

The story then goes, from my relatives, that she left her husband 'Joe' he then bought up the two boys on his own. No one knows what happened to her after this.

However, I have found a marriage between a Martha Aspland and a John Lewis in Aug 1905, Burnley. My Grandma's cousin has been to this church and got some info that it was a more 'relaxed' church and she possibly could have married bigamously there.

She then appeared on the 1911 census living at 3 Back Guy Fold Padiham, Burnley. Martha and John were living with his sister and her kids.

After this I can't find a thing! I have full access to deceased online and I have searched every Martha Lewis and John Lewis, none of them fit. I've even tried name variations in case she started going by a different name. I'm now wondering if she married again and I am currently checking out more marriages.

This lady has died at some point and I would love to solve these years of on going head scratching!  ???

Any advice would be very much appreciated! Thanks in advance :)
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 11 June 20 14:19 BST (UK)
Not every burial is on deceased online.

Have you looked for death registrations on www.FreeBMD.org.uk ?
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Hardy8824 on Thursday 11 June 20 14:23 BST (UK)
Hi Jan,

Yes quite a few I haven't found on deceased but found else where. Free BMD hasn't given me anything other than a lady called Mary A Lewis who died aged 50 in Wellington and would have been born in 1871. I went away and looked her up more and it wasn't the lady I am looking for sadly!

Not every burial is on deceased online.

Have you looked for death registrations on www.FreeBMD.org.uk ?
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 11 June 20 14:27 BST (UK)

Have you looked for her on 1939 Register?   

Have you tried to trace backwards the Martha Aspland who married in 1905?


Family stories can sometimes get muddled over the years.  ;)
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Hardy8824 on Thursday 11 June 20 14:34 BST (UK)
Yes, nothing for her on the 1939 register [that I can see anyway]
The timeline of info I put originally is all I have on her, honestly I feel like I have exhausted so many options, even checked the ship records to see if she left the country as when I did a DNA test on Ancestry I was connected with a 'Lee' in Canada, I have asked him and he doesn't know anything about her either! - Mystery :( You are right about things getting muddled


Have you looked for her on 1939 Register?   

Have you tried to trace backwards the Martha Aspland who married in 1905?


Family stories can sometimes get muddled over the years.  ;)
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 11 June 20 14:42 BST (UK)
Long shot now......have you considered getting copies of both marriage certificates and seeing if her details match?

My gt.grandma's third husband went missing from a census (she put herself as a widow) but he was found marrying elsewhere......all his details matched with his earlier marriage to gt.grandma!  He did have an unusual surname which made me convinced I'd found him.

Could they have moved to Scotland or Ireland? Would John's occupation have meant him moving around the country?
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Hardy8824 on Thursday 11 June 20 14:46 BST (UK)
I've just ordered the marriage certificate to the second husband to see what it says. To add - Her brother Ruben Lee moved to Canada and died there [Died 1 Apr 1952
Aylmer, Outaouais Region, Quebec, Canada] I still wonder if she went over there!

Lol I love stories like yours where you do find them elsewhere with another life. I've had a few little stories like that.

This Martha though...The amount of times I want to give up on her but you can't just vanish!  :-\

Long shot now......have you considered getting copies of both marriage certificates and seeing if her details match?

My gt.grandma's third husband went missing from a census (she put herself as a widow) but he was found marrying elsewhere......all his details matched with his earlier marriage to gt.grandma!  He did have an unusual surname which made me convinced I'd found him.

Could they have moved to Scotland or Ireland? Would John's occupation have meant him moving around the country?
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 11 June 20 14:51 BST (UK)
Have you looked for Joseph and their two sons on 1911 census?   Any clues there?
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 11 June 20 14:55 BST (UK)
I would go a couple years wide of her birth date as she gives her age as 21 on her marriage cert. in 1891... Also you may want to research the two witnesses Samuel Mather/Meather...(difficult to read) and Ellen Burley if you haven't already done so. Ancestry does give her Dob as 1870 but her age might not be accurate across the census returns.
Carol
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Hardy8824 on Thursday 11 June 20 14:56 BST (UK)
Yes, Joseph and his two sons were boarding together in a house in Lincoln. It states Joseph is a widow but that's not the case I am sure. It's a nightmare isn't it. I wonder if I'll ever actually get to the bottom of this  :D

Have you looked for Joseph and their two sons on 1911 census?   Any clues there?
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: nanny jan on Thursday 11 June 20 15:01 BST (UK)
Have you followed the sons to see what happened to them?
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 11 June 20 15:02 BST (UK)
There is a tree matching on Ancestry that gives her death date as 1911
Carol
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Hardy8824 on Thursday 11 June 20 15:11 BST (UK)
Hi Carol,

Yeah I have noticed that about her age on the marriage certificate. She was born 4th Quarter of 1871. Unsure why she would lie about her age on the marriage?  ???

Just going to have a look at who they were.

So many grey areas, her ex husband said he was a widow in 1911 on the census but she remarried in 1905 to John Lewis so I don't know. Maybe he just said that as he was ashamed of her upping and leaving?

I would go a couple years wide of her birth date as she gives her age as 21 on her marriage cert. in 1891... Also you may want to research the two witnesses Samuel Mather/Meather...(difficult to read) and Ellen Burley if you haven't already done so. Ancestry does give her Dob as 1870 but her age might not be accurate across the census returns.
Carol
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Thursday 11 June 20 15:18 BST (UK)
The boys are both noted as born in Oldham. The 1892 birth coincides with an 1892 death of a Martha Alice Lee. her age is noted as 19. Perhaps, a post birth death?

Or, there is a death, again, of a Martha Ann Lee, death 1903, Oldham aged 29.


Malky

Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 11 June 20 15:40 BST (UK)
The boys are both noted as born in Oldham. The 1892 birth coincides with an 1892 death of a Martha Alice Lee. her age is noted as 19. Perhaps, a post birth death?

Or, there is a death, again, of a Martha Ann Lee, death 1903, Oldham aged 29.


Malky

She is just Martha Lee on her marriage cert. to Joseph Aspland Malky in 1891.

Carol
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Thursday 11 June 20 15:56 BST (UK)
Very much as I'd just noted... as you'll know she actually married in Oldham, at St Stephen and All Martyrs, on 28th March 1891. When her two sons are baptised at the same church - John Joseph and George Henry on 26th May 1898, both parents are mentioned. Perhaps, had she died by then, mention would have been made of that?
In 1901 census, and others, there is another Martha Lee, b about the same time, in Shropshire, living now in Manchester, but her husband is George Jno and a House-painter? I think there's some chance the two ladies may get confused....
I really don't believe that a Burnley church would be relaxed enough to allow obviously bigamous marriages.
Are we sure quite which of the many Marthas Lee we need to search for?
To me, the deaths seem likelier than a re-marriage quite a distance away. As far as I can see, both the Marthas Lee who married in Burnley area at the time, were accounted for as spinsters in earlier censuses, as well.
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Hardy8824 on Thursday 11 June 20 16:04 BST (UK)
Hi Malky, thanks so much for your help. Martha remarried in 1905 to a John Lewis. The family who knew her son Joseph knew that Martha left him and disappeared. He bought the two boys up on his own. Complete mystery!

The boys are both noted as born in Oldham. The 1892 birth coincides with an 1892 death of a Martha Alice Lee. her age is noted as 19. Perhaps, a post birth death?

Or, there is a death, again, of a Martha Ann Lee, death 1903, Oldham aged 29.


Malky
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Hardy8824 on Thursday 11 June 20 16:23 BST (UK)
I am with you on the relaxed thing. My Grandma's cousin visited the church and came back with this info the man who married John and Martha was called Henry Holt, he died in 1920 she sent me the photo of his plaque up in the church, I need a conversation with him! :D

I have the marriage certificate for John and Martha. I'll attach it. (http://)

Very much as I'd just noted... as you'll know she actually married in Oldham, at St Stephen and All Martyrs, on 28th March 1891. When her two sons are baptised at the same church - John Joseph and George Henry on 26th May 1898, both parents are mentioned. Perhaps, had she died by then, mention would have been made of that?
In 1901 census, and others, there is another Martha Lee, b about the same time, in Shropshire, living now in Manchester, but her husband is George Jno and a House-painter? I think there's some chance the two ladies may get confused....
I really don't believe that a Burnley church would be relaxed enough to allow obviously bigamous marriages.
Are we sure quite which of the many Marthas Lee we need to search for?
To me, the deaths seem likelier than a re-marriage quite a distance away. As far as I can see, both the Marthas Lee who married in Burnley area at the time, were accounted for as spinsters in earlier censuses, as well.
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 11 June 20 16:33 BST (UK)
Burnley Gazette 20 May 1905
A young woman, named Martha Aspland, Housekeeper, Blacko, was fined 2s 6d and costs for being drunk and laid on the footpath in Gisburn Road, Blacko on Friday night the 5th inst

Hartley Clarke & John Lewis are also mentioned in the same article
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Jool on Thursday 11 June 20 16:36 BST (UK)
I just spotted that too Rosie  ;D  I had already copied the article so I will post it anyway.
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Treetotal on Thursday 11 June 20 16:45 BST (UK)
Great find Rosie and Jool  :D
Carol
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Hardy8824 on Thursday 11 June 20 17:19 BST (UK)
 :D haha that's brilliant! Seems in-keeping with her! Thank you!

Burnley Gazette 20 May 1905
A young woman, named Martha Aspland, Housekeeper, Blacko, was fined 2s 6d and costs for being drunk and laid on the footpath in Gisburn Road, Blacko on Friday night the 5th inst

Hartley Clarke & John Lewis are also mentioned in the same article
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Hardy8824 on Thursday 11 June 20 17:20 BST (UK)
Thank you! ;D made me laugh!

I just spotted that too Rosie  ;D  I had already copied the article so I will post it anyway.
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Hardy8824 on Thursday 11 June 20 17:23 BST (UK)
What website do you find best for newspaper articles?

Burnley Gazette 20 May 1905
A young woman, named Martha Aspland, Housekeeper, Blacko, was fined 2s 6d and costs for being drunk and laid on the footpath in Gisburn Road, Blacko on Friday night the 5th inst

Hartley Clarke & John Lewis are also mentioned in the same article
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Hardy8824 on Thursday 11 June 20 17:25 BST (UK)
Which website do you find best for newspaper articles? I am subscribed to findmypast and they have papers on there but never found this on Martha before!

I just spotted that too Rosie  ;D  I had already copied the article so I will post it anyway.
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 11 June 20 17:26 BST (UK)
I found it on FindMyPast (Which means it should also be on BNA website)
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Jool on Thursday 11 June 20 17:36 BST (UK)
I found it on FindMyPast
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Hardy8824 on Thursday 11 June 20 17:52 BST (UK)
This has confirmed the marriage completely for me now as John lived on Gisburn Road on the marriage certificate and one of their witnesses was Hartley Clark, the other drunk man!

Now to find out when she died! Thanks so much to you and Rosie!

I found it on FindMyPast
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Friday 12 June 20 15:17 BST (UK)
Wonderful find! It's as good to be proved wrong, as proved right, isn't it? - I wondered if the chapel might have been an Inghamite chapel ... they had the reputation of being a little more relaxed, certainly more recently were amongst the first to deal with divorced couples.
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: Hardy8824 on Saturday 13 June 20 19:53 BST (UK)
Hi Yorky, the chapel was/is called wheatley lane chapel and was indeed a Inghamite chapel, I don't know much about these? Where Martha and John were living they had a church in spitting distance yet they chose to go to this chapel which was about 4 mile away. That kind of says it all doesn't it?

Wonderful find! It's as good to be proved wrong, as proved right, isn't it? - I wondered if the chapel might have been an Inghamite chapel ... they had the reputation of being a little more relaxed, certainly more recently were amongst the first to deal with divorced couples.
Title: Re: Mystery woman!
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Sunday 14 June 20 15:31 BST (UK)
I don't know a lot about Inghamites, except that they were dissenters, started by a Yorkshireman, Ben Ingham, I think, and a very independent lot. Eventually most of the Inghamite congregations drifted into Methodism, I think. I just have the idea that they were rather more liberal re. re-marrying divorcees at a time when that was very difficult ... but I could be wrong. Think there are only a very few - of which Wheatley Lane is one - left, now.
Hope that's a bit of help.
TY