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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: colee on Friday 12 June 20 14:28 BST (UK)
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Hi
I wonder if anyone can help with some New York records. I have the basic info for this marriage on Ancestry (3 Oct, 1934 at Kings, New York, certificate number 17426). I would like to know if the actual register entry is accessible on line so I can verify her parents and see the details of the groom.
Very many thanks for any help, all so gratefully received.
Best wishes
Colee
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Benjamin & Jeanette(Jean) in 1940 census for Brooklyn, Kings, NY. Jeanette born 1912 Hungary.
1940 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KQ1V-N4P
Jeanette Mantel, born 1912 Hungary in 1930 census for Brooklyn, Kings, NY with her family
1930 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4V1-HND
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Brilliant thank you so much that's wonderful!!
Out of interest, not that I really need it now, but are marriage records accessible?
so grateful
Best
Colee
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Was 1940 the last census? Trying to see now what happened to their sons Ernest and Jerome. Jerome died in 2004, what's the best way of finding out if he had any children? And Ernest married Erna Zeidman but I'm trying to get to the next generation too.
Very many thanks again
Colee
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1940 was the last census - 1950 census will be released April 1922.
https://www.census.gov/history/www/faqs/genealogy_faqs/when_will_census_records_be_available.html
Jerome Bloom
Birth Date 15 May 1938 Brooklyn, New York City, New York.
Certificate Number 16310
U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007 - Jerome Bloom
Birth Date 15 May 1938 Bklyn Kings, New York
Death Date 23 Sep 2004
Father Benjamin Bloom - Mother Jean Mantel.
SSDI - Jerome Bloom Birth Date 15 May 1938 - 23 Sept 2004
Last Residence 11691, Far Rockaway, Queens, New York.
The other son "E" was born 3 October 1935 so hopefully will still be living.
US Public Records -
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K59W-4JV
pm sent with link to possible relatives for "E"
Sandra
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Erna Bloom - 25 Feb 1938 - February 27, 2016 Boca Raton, Florida.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/erna-bloom-obituary?pid=177884806
https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/hewlett-ny/erna-bloom-6822142
Sandra
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FIND A GRAVE
Erna Bloom - Wellwood Cemetery East Farmingdale, Suffolk County, New York.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/158777468
Sandra
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Thank you so much Sandra, for the PM too, I couldn't work out how to reply on that!
It all looks exciting, I'll send the details to his cousin so he can get in touch. Wonderful to find him, thank you!
Very best
Colee
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We always love to hear any update if you make progress. Good Luck.
Cheers
Sandra
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Hi Sandra
Will do. This is quite a genealogical mission. I'm actually looking for my great uncle Miksa Weisz who was married to Ernest Bloom's great aunt Margit Friedmann (both born in Hungary) between 1924 and 1929 in Vienna. To find out more about Margit and eventually Miksa I have delved into the Friedmann family who left Vienna in the 1930s for America. I am in touch with Ernest's cousin who I found in Sweden (his aunt had been taken to Sweden in 1945 from Auschwitz and the cousin and parents followed in 1957 from Hungary. I have found most of Ernest's aunts and uncles, and his parents, on ships coming to the US from Europe in the 1920s. Ernest's grandfather Herman Mantel and his uncle Hugo Mantel seemed to be very senior rabbis in the states, particularly Hugo. I found a large number of newspaper cuttings about him. But the next generation was eluding me until you came in to help. It's the best when something gets unlocked. And one of the most exciting things is that my great uncle's ex-wife Margit (she was still using her married name Weisz when she crossed to New York in 1936) I think (according to this cousin I'm in touch with) died in Florida although I haven't located her in Florida yet. So the chances are that Ernest may know something about her.
I'll certainly report on any progress.
thank you so much again, all your help is so invaluable.
Best wishes
Colee
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How would you go about finding a contact email for Ernest or any of his children,
I'm eager to let the cousin know and give him a contact point for Ernest or a member of the family. I guess facebook or some such, shame there are so many daughters who may well go by another name if they are married!
thank you humbly...
Colee
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We can't name living people Colee. (thats why I sent them by pm)
Try looking for each name on social media, google the name or whitepages usa - sites like those.
I don't klnow of any where which would give you an email address - sorry.
https://www.whitepages.com/
Sandra
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Would this be Margit Weisz - Margit Weisz - 9 April 1906 - 4 September 1991 Dade Florida.
aged 85 years.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VVHC-7X1
Sandra
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Oops, apologies yes that makes sense (should I delete the post?)
No I don't think that's the right one, the Margit I'm looking for was born 25 August 1890 in Biharudvari, Hungary.
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Its not possible to delete a whole post. If you press the modify button you can then delete the names.
Leave the remainder of the text.
Sandra
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Great thanks!
Colee
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Margit Weiss
Birth Date 25 Aug 1890 - April 1976 -
Last Residence 11691, Far Rockaway, Queens, New York.
That's the same zip code as Jerome Bloom.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JBRF-L6G
Sorry I have to leave for the moment. I'm sure RJ will be along to help unravel your mystery.
Sandra
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Yesssss that's her, amazing, thank you!!
I will have to trawl back through some of the records I've been looking at today, someone else in the family was living at Far Rockaway.
Inching very very slowly towards Miksa maybe....
Huge thanks
Colee
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It was Margit's nephew Louis that also lived at Far Rockaway, this was his address from a US Social Security record:
Louis Mantel
Birth Date: 11 Aug 1914
Address: 1014 Neilson St Apt 5c
Residence Place: Far Rockaway, New York, USA
Zip Code: 11691-5022
He died in October 1996.
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What is the best approach when census searches don't initially retrieve the records you expect should be there.
I tried to look up the 1940 census information for Margit Friedmann/Weiss but couldn't find her. It is most likely she would have been in New York. Her ship crossing document in 1936 lists sister Irene living at Sutter Avenue as the known contact in New York. By 1940 I guess she would have moved to her own place but it didn't come up on my search.
It seems like Sutter Avenue was the original address for the family in New York. In the 1925 Census Margit's sister Irene and husband Herman Mantel were at number 938 Sutter Avenue with all 5 of their children (Hugo, Elizabeth, Jeanette, Louis and Renee). They were also all at home there still in the 1930 Census. in 1940 Herman and Irene were still at Sutter Avenue but may have moved to number 918 which they owned, although this could be a typing error. Louis was the only child at home with them at that point (aged 25), as was Irene's father Isaac who came over in 1938 after the death of his wife in Vienna, aged 81.
I also couldn't find one of Louis' sisters, Elizabeth, in the 1940 census. She married Daniel von Kameniczky in 1937 but doesn't seem to show up on an initial search for 1940.
There is also an uncle who is proving difficult to find in the census records. Irene's brother Kalman Friedmann came to New York in May 1935 listing Herman at 938 Sutter Ave as his known relative. But again, he doesn't show up in the 1940 census from an initial look. During the war his draft registration document shows he was living in Pittsburgh, he was a photographer working at the Bachrach studio there; and then another address in Washington, North Carolina. But I don't know where he went after that.
I would be so appreciative of any help in finding these records, and also knowing the other routes for pinning down a census record if it doesn't show up by a normal search.
Thank you so very much
Colee
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Try alternative spellings for Elizabeth Von Kameniczky. Perhaps the marriage did not last and she remarried or moved.
Kalman Friedman is that the one with a birth date 26/4/1897 ? As per WW2 Young Mans Draft
Herman Mantel 1882 - died 7 April 1948
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W2V-56T
Sandra
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Brilliant! It seems they did move to 913 Sutter Ave then.
Yes that seems right for Kalman, I have 29 April 1897 but it must be the same.
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I also couldn't find one of Louis' sisters, Elizabeth, in the 1940 census. She married Daniel von Kameniczky in 1937 but doesn't seem to show up on an initial search for 1940.
This appears to be them in the 1940 census. Perhaps they changed the last name? The names are very neatly printed, not a transcription error. I assume the initials "V K" stand for "Von Kameniczky".
DOB & POB match for both of them based on marriage record. The 1930 census stated Elizabeth did photo work at a camera shop. The 1940 census states Elizabeth is an artist at a photo studio.
Marriage: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2488-R26
1940 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K3BK-8NT
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Bingo brilliant thank you so much, yes that's got to be them. I think Wellman might have been one of the husband's middle names.
Such a sense of completeness to see people in the records when they seemed to have disappeared.
thank you so much for your help
Colee
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It seems like Sutter Avenue was the original address for the family in New York.
913 Sutter Ave. is referred to in numerous articles both before and after the death of Herman Mantel in 1948 as "Mantel Manor". It appears to not only be where Herman lived, but as a place where various Jewish functions took place.
Herman's death: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W2V-56T
The Brooklyn Daily Eagle
Brooklyn, New York
27 Jul 1944, Thu • Page 11
Clip: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/53348786/the-brooklyn-daily-eagle/
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Florida Death Index -
Elizabeth Mantel Wellman - 9 August 1909 - 18 August 1970 - aged 61 years
Death Place Alachua, Florida.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VV7L-9HM
Sandra
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SSDI Daniel Wellman - 27 July 1899 - October 1976
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JTBL-Q6X
Florida Death Index - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VV8P-RCH
Sandra
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Yes thank you RJ, that's so interesting. Herman was an influential rabbi I think, and his son Hugo even more so. I have found numerous references to Hugo on that newspaper website.
Hugo, wife Edith Maybush and son Jonathan Moses Israel Mantel emigrated to Israel in the 1950s, and I think all died there although I couldn't find the relevant Israeli documents, I'm not sure they're accessible?
I should look up Mantel Manor on newspapers.com and see how long it functioned as a meeting place.
Their son Louis, Hugo's brother, was a Hebrew teacher in New York and settled in the orthodox area of Far Rockaway where my great uncle's ex-wife Margit was also living when she died in 1967 - as Sandra found out yesterday.
Louis and Elizabeth were the only children to stay in the New York area. Renee Mantel Schwartz died in Las Vegas, I don't know yet if she had any family but I think she had 2 husbands, Percy Schwartz and then Morris Cooper. There were also 2 other cousins I couldn't locate. Irene's sister Wilma Friedmann married Arthur Fischl and they had 2 children, Erica/Erika and Hans Gerhart Fishcl but I'm not sure yet what happened to them.
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There is an anc tree with lots of cutting on Mantel, is that yours ?
Sandra
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yes - Weiss/Yates/Butterworth/Smith
wow thank you Sandra for the Wellman info. I will have to see if they lived near the Bloom (Jeanette's) family who also moved to Florida, Boca Raton
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WOOOOW....
Sandra and RJ, your help over the last few days has set off a major breakthrough. Armed with the info about Margit living in Far Rockaway and her close links with the Mantel family, I posted a question on the Jewish genealogical society message board, and someone who knows the family put me in touch with Jeanette's son in Jerusalem who has now contacted me. He also knew my great aunt Margit and hopefully will be able to tell me more about her.
This is a HUGE step forward in my research and has started to fill in one of the big gaps, although there are still plenty more really big ones.
Thank you again Sandra and RJ, your help in unlocking these family mysteries is so incredibly valuable.
Hopefully I will now also be able to find out from Jean's son what happened to Kalman and the other 2 brothers who I never located in the records. Maybe I'll also find out something about my great uncle Miksa, that would be an even bigger prize!!
Best
Colee
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Terrific news, delighted for you. I’m sure now you are in touch with a relative it will be even more exciting,
Sandra.
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Renee Mantel Schwartz died in Las Vegas, I don't know yet if she had any family but I think she had 2 husbands,
Renee Mantel Schwartz's obit mentions 3 children and a sister.
Las Vegas Review-Journal
Saturday, Apr 26, 2003
Las Vegas, NV
Page: 36
obit: https://www.rootschat.com/links/01qq7/