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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: AllanUK on Saturday 13 June 20 11:58 BST (UK)
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I have being trying for over 20 years to find the baptism of my 2 x great grandmother, Ann Pringle (father Robert Pringle, mother Ann Anderson)
I have her in every Census from 1841 to 1861 (Scotland) and 1871 to 1901 (England -- she married John Robinson and lived in Wooler, Northumberland). She died in March 1911 and her burial entry states that she was 70 years of age (gives a DOB as 1840 / early 1841). This ties in with age declaration on Census.
The Scottish Census shows place of birth but I believe they have been transcribed incorrectly (I can only see transcriptions) but I have strong evidence from various English records that she was born in Bedrule.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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The Scottish Census shows place of birth but I believe they have been transcribed incorrectly (I can only see transcriptions)
You can see originals at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk on exactly the same terms as everyone else.
Which transcription are you looking at, and where was she in 1841, 1851 and 1861?
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There was an Anne Pringle born, Bedrule, but in 1795 on SP
There was an Ann or Annabella Buckham Pringle born Minto, in 1839/40, daughter of George Pringle & Janet Wallace Turnbull. Minto is only a few miles from Bedrule.
1841 census, Minto.
George, 30, Janet, 30, Anne, 11, Hannah, 3, & Annabella, 1.
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If you use a decent transcription, for example https://freecen1.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl, there are the following references to an Ann(e) Pringle born in Bedrule
1861, Ploughman's House, Morebattle. Robert Pringle, 46, born Eckford; wife Ann, 48, born Eaton; children including Ann, 22 born Bedrule.
1851, Lempitlaw, Sprouston: Robert, 36, born Eckford; wife Ann, 38, born Ayton; children including Ann, 11, born Bedrule.
1841, Lanton, Jedburgh: Robert, 24, born Roxburghshire; Anne, not born in Roxburghshire; children including Anne, 2, born Roxburghshire.
FindMyPast also transcribes it as Bedrule.
So it looks as if Ann(e) was indeed born in Bedrule, in 1838 or 1839.
The one born in 1795 is a red herring. Annabella can also be ruled out; not only are her parents not Robert and Ann(e), but she is with her parents in Minto in 1841, 1851 and 1861.
It looks very much as if the record of your Ann(e)'s baptism, if it ever existed, has not survived.
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Only thing I can see on SP that might be relevant -
Margaret Pringle , birth/baptism 20th May 1842 , Jedburgh Roxburgh , parents Robert Pringle/Anne Anderson.
The Margaret on the 1851 Census is 5 , so the child above may have died :-\
https://www.scottishindexes.com/51transcript.aspx?houseid=80705026
ev
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Hi folks, thank you for replying.
Forfarian - when I posted the above, I was looking at my old notes from Ancestry. Since my posting, I have looked at FindMyPast and they have better transcriptions and give Ann's birth place as Bedrule which ties in to other records. I concur with your Census findings.
Ev - I have family paperwork which shows that Ann Pringle's parents were Robert Pringle and Anne Anderson of Ayton, Berwickshire. I concur with your findings of Margaret Pringle, baptised 20 May 1842. She died before 1846 as Robert and Anne had another daughter who they baptised as Margaret.
Forfarian - I think that you are correct in assuming that Ann's baptism no longer exists -- explains why I have been looking for over 20 years in the vain hope that it 'pops up'
Best wishes to all.
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when I posted the above, I was looking at my old notes from Ancestry. Since my posting, I have looked at FindMyPast and they have better transcriptions and give Ann's birth place as Bedrule which ties in to other records.
Yes, FindMyPast's transcriptions are better than Ancestry's.
However you have to be wary with FindMyPast because they add in a supposed year of birth which is never in the original UK census, and because the census is taken a quarter of the way through the year, the year of birth is wrong three-quarters of the time.
Also they have a bad habit of not transcribing birthplaces in such a way that they appear in the household view, and you have to click on each individual and scroll down to get the birthplace in full.
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The early 1800s, including the 1840s, was a huge era of upheaval in the Scottish church community. Many people moved away from the main Church of Scotland. Sometimes to non conformist churches, who may, or may not, have left surviving baptism records. Often no records survive for these churches.
It means that it is extremely common for births not to be recorded in Scottish church records, no matter how hard or how long you look for. This is why it is so important to have other records. Fortunately you have the census records. Where do the parents names come from? Have you tried tracing them back? You may just have to accept that this birth, like thousands of others, is not recorded with a baptism.
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Hi Viv,
Ann Pringle's parents were Robert Pringle (only know details from census returns and named in family docs) and Ann Anderson (named in family docs as well as that she was from Ayton, Berwickshire - have been able to trace her side back a further 2 generations).
Thank you for the info concerning the upheaval of the churches in Scotland -- didn't know about that.
Thank you