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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: NormanE on Monday 15 June 20 15:39 BST (UK)
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I have a puzzle to deal with concerning the parentage of 3 CARR children born between 1874 and 1881.
One of the children Lucy Jane Carr born 1878 at Blackburn married in 1903 and her father was named James Atkinson CARR. Now the GRO index record taken from Free BMD says James Atkinson CARR married Susanna MORLEY in 1873.
The problem is that Lucy Jane c 1878 and her two siblings 1875 and 1881 were registered with mothers maiden name HAMPSON there is no sign of children with a MORLEY mother.
There is no sign of any Susanna death, so is this a GRO error or is there an alternative I have not thought of?
Advice would be most welcome.
NormanE
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Lancashire BMD shows the marriage, Leigh Register Office or Registrar attended as James Atkinson Carr and Susannah
Carr. Morley
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/marriagesearch.php
Correction made re transcription of name. Thanks to BumbleB. :)
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It may be that Susanna had been married before and so when asked for previous name to register the birth gave her married name.
Also, I have had scenarios where the mother (in this case Susanna) was born to an unmarried mother so was registered under one surname. The unmarried mother later weds, and Susanna gets mother's married surname and appears on censuses etc with that name. When Susanna gives birth, she gives the name that she was registered with at birth, but not the name that has been given on censuses.
Have you got Susanna from birth, through censuses and right through to death?
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1881 4182/64/3
James Carr 36 Yrs
Susannah Carr 37 Yrs
Lewis Carr 11 yrs
James Carr 7 Yrs
William Carr 6 Yrs
Lucy Jane Carr 3 yrs
1871 4209/88/15
Susannah and child Louis Morley are lodging with a Hampson family in Preston. Susannah shows as married.
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This may help
Baptism: 20 Aug 1876 St Mary RC, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Alexander Carr - Filius James Carr & Susannah (formerly Morley and Hampson)
Born: 19 Aug 1876
Godparents: Abraham Carr; Jane Ann Hampson
Notes: [Mother maiden name as entered].]
Baptised by: Richard Dunderdale
Register: Baptisms 1872 - 1897, Page 119, Entry 601
Source: Original Register
Baptism: 23 Sep 1876 St Mary RC, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
William Carr - Filius James Carr & Susannah (formerly Morley)
Born: 5 Jan 1875
Godparents: Abraham Carr; Jane Ann Hampson
Baptised by: Richard Dunderdale
Register: Baptisms 1872 - 1897, Page 122, Entry 614
Source: Original Register
Baptism: 28 Apr 1878 St Mary RC, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Lucy Jane Carr - Filia James Carr & Susannah (formerly Hansome)
Born: 17 Apr 1878
Godparents: Abraham Carr; Mary Ann Close
Baptised by: Richd. Dunderdale
Register: Baptisms 1872 - 1897, Page 174, Entry 877
Source: Original Register
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MMN on Louis Morley's birth is shown as Hampson
sorry Lancsann - redboxed by you!
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Lancashire BMD shows Louis b 1870 mmn Hampson.
There is a marriage, 1864 , Preston St John for Susannah Hampson and William Morland :-\
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Lancashire BMD shows the marriage, Leigh Register Office or Registrar attended as James Atkinson Carr and Susannah Carr.
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/marriagesearch.php
Sorry, LancashireBMD confirm that the marriage was between James Atkinson Carr and Susannah Morley. :)
A copy of the marriage certificate would verify the true record.
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On the 1864 marriage between William Morland and Susannah Hampson, William is 16 and his father's name is Elisha Morland. Susannah is 19 and her father is Thomas Hampson.
Does this help confirm whether this is the correct Susannah? Birth dates are +/- 1844.
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Lancashire BMD shows the marriage, Leigh Register Office or Registrar attended as James Atkinson Carr and Susannah Carr.
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/marriagesearch.php
Sorry, LancashireBMD confirm that the marriage was between James Atkinson Carr and Susannah Morley. :)
A copy of the marriage certificate would verify the true record.
Sorry my error in transcript. I will correct it.
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1851 census has a William Morley son of Elija and Jane Morley, all born in Preston, living at 16 Lodge St, Preston.
1871 census Elisha and Jane Morley are at 54 Springfield St, Preston. No William.
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Thank you for so many replies. I have to admit that I have indigestion at the moment. It look like there is an answer in there somewhere.
Again thanks for what has been offered so far
NormanE
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1851 census has a William Morley son of Elija and Jane Morley, all born in Preston, living at 16 Lodge St, Preston.
1871 census Elisha and Jane Morley are at 54 Springfield St, Preston. No William.
Baptism St. John, Preston, 17th Feb 1848
William MARLEY, child of Elijah MARLEY & Jane
(Transcription Lancashire Online Parish Clerks)
Birth registration 1848 William MORLEY mother's maiden surname METCALF , Preston
(Lancashire BMD)
Marriage 1847 Elisha MORLEY & Jane METCALF, Preston St. John
(Lancs. BMD)
Birth registrations of MORLEY children with HAMPSON mother's maiden name:
1865 MORLEY, Thomas; Preston
1869 MORLEY, Louis; Preston
(Lancs. BMD)
This baptism at St. Thomas, Preston, 16th April 1868
Elisha MORLEY child of William & Susannah
Abode 54 Springfield St.
(LAN-OPC)
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Baptism: 20 Aug 1876 St Mary RC, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Alexander Carr - Filius James Carr & Susannah (formerly Morley and Hampson)
Born: 19 Aug 1876
Godparents: Abraham Carr; Jane Ann Hampson
Notes: [Mother maiden name as entered].]
Baptised by: Richard Dunderdale
Register: Baptisms 1872 - 1897, Page 119, Entry 601
Source: Original Register
Birth registrations Susanna HAMPSON 1845; mother's maiden surname SUDELL; Preston
Jane Ann HAMPSON 1849; mother's maiden surname SUDELL; Preston
Other Hampson birth registrations with mother's maiden surname Sudell in Preston District:
Grace 1838; William 1840; James 1843; Margaret Alice 1847; Nancy 1852; Thomas Edward 1854; Thomas 1856 (Lancashire BMD)
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Birth registrations Susanna HAMPSON 1845; mother's maiden surname SUDELL; Preston
Jane Ann HAMPSON 1849; mother's maiden surname SUDELL; Preston
Possible marriage of Susanna's parents:
St. John, Preston, 25th Dec. 1835
Thomas Hampson
Jane Sidwell
A Thomas HAMSON witnessed marriage of a Thomas SUDELL at same church 1838. Both men marked x. Curiously, Thomas Sudell named his father as Thomas Monk, surgeon.
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A Thomas HAMSON witnessed marriage of a Thomas SUDELL at same church 1838. Both men marked x. Curiously, Thomas Sudell named his father as Thomas Monk, surgeon.
I wonder if Thomas Sudell's father, the surgeon, was this Doctor Thomas Monk.
Doctor Thomas Monk, alderman, Mayor of Preston, 1851-2. Stood trial at Lancaster 1858 for forgery of a patient's will. Suspected of poisoning said patient. Found guilty of forgery; sentenced to 10 years imprisonment. Returned to Preston on release and set up in practice as a surgeon. Pardoned 1880. He died a wealthy man.
While Mayor of Preston he presided over the unveiling of the statue of Robert Peel in Winckley Square. Thomas Monk's name was chiselled out from the statue after his guilty verdict.
https://www.winckleysquarepreston.org/heritage/thomas-monk
A Thomas Monk witnessed many marriages at St. John's Church.
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Dr. Thomas Monk had been in practice in Preston since 1820.
He owned "The Mechanics' Arms" 1837-9. (Old pubs of Preston blog)
He was witness at inquest of Elizabeth Faire, a chemist's wife who was poisoned by drinking "fly-water" (mixture of water & arsenic) in 1849.
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Thank you everyone who has contributed, you have blown the mists away and all is clear to me now.
I am very fortunate to have such helpful researchers supporting me.
Maiden Stone
Your contribution is very interesting since the GRO Index has Susanna HAMPSON'S birth as
1st Quarter 1845 Susanna HAMPSON mothers maiden name SUDEL Volume 21 Page 686 Preston Union.
I'll need to think about it.
NormanE
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Thank you Maiden Stone for all that extra information re Preston. I have lived close to Preston for the last 50 years but have never really noticed the Robert Peel statue and I must have walked past it several times. Shows how much we do not notice of our home environment. I struggle even to remember what our village primary school looked like when we moved here and which bits were added while our sons were there.
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Birth registrations Susanna HAMPSON 1845; mother's maiden surname SUDELL; Preston
Jane Ann HAMPSON 1849; mother's maiden surname SUDELL; Preston
Possible marriage of Susanna's parents:
St. John, Preston, 25th Dec. 1835
Thomas Hampson
Jane Sidwell
Neither Thomas or Jane signed their name. There were 10 weddings on that day; a few men signed their names but most grooms, brides and witnesses marked x.
Jane was the only SIDWELL in registers of St. John. There were a few SIDDELL and SIDDLE entries and many SUDALL or SUDELL.
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Maiden Stone
All your information sits very well with the entry in the 1851 for Susannah Hampson.
We may be struggling with a literacy issue here.
NormanE