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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: louisemcm on Tuesday 16 June 20 14:53 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone
I am trying to find the parents and family of Ann Packman, baptised Ann Packman 08/04/1832 at St Pauls Cray Kent. I believe her parents are James Packman and Amey/Amy Packman nee Vallins/Vollins.
I've found records for her brother Thomas Packman which have two different dates of birth and two baptism records with the same parents listed. First baptism on non-parochial register at Dover has the date of birth as 29 Sep 1829 and second baptism at St Mary Cray, Kent has date of birth as 29 Sep 1931.
Can you be baptised twice or have I mixed up two families? His parents seem to have the same names.
I also believe Ann and Thomas Packman's mother is Amy Vallins, born 2 June 1805 in St Paul's Cray Kent with a father called John Vallins. But other family trees have him listed as John Vollins and I don't know if I'm mixing up families together.
I would be really grateful for any help.
Best wishes
Louise
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There are instances of children being baptised twice. Most probably because, as far as the Church of England was concerned, the first baptism was not lawful, or "all things were not done, as they ought to be" Or the Parish Priest was deliberately kept in ignorance of the first one.
The first question asked at the Public Baptism of Infants in the Book of Common Prayer is "Hath this Child been already Baptized, or no?".Only if the answer is 'no' can the baptism continue. If the answer is 'yes' then the Priest has to examine them further as to the find out if the child was lawfully baptized, and if the Minister shall find by the answers of such as bring the Child that all things were done as they ought to be, then shall not he christen the Child again but shall receive him/her as one of the flock of true christian people."
On the other hand it was common to give a child the name of a previous child that had died.
Stan
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Hello Louise, welcome to Rootschat :D
You haven't stated on what dates the two baptisms for Thomas took place. The date of birth on the second one may just be an error for some reason. If you have the same parents and dad has the same or similar occupation then it is probably the same child. For whatever reason the parents had Thomas baptised twice. Families can do strange things sometimes.
I wouldn't worry too much about Vallins/Vollins. Spellings can quite often be different due to what was heard. It's a hazard of family history. Names get misheard and spelt differently.
The 1841 census has the Packman family living at Reynolds Smith, St Mary Cray, Bromley, Kent and it appears that Amy's dad is with them. Listed as John Vallins. Looks as though James's occupation is shop man.
Did you check to see if Amy had any siblings? If so the parents should be consistent even if the spelling of the surname varies.
If you are looking at family trees on Ancestry you need to take some of them with a pinch of salt. Regrettably there are researchers who just lift names from other trees and copy them without checking to see if they are correct. The golden rule is do your own research and check what you find against parish, census and BMD records where possible.
Is there anything else you would like help with? Rootschatters are always willing to assist others in their research. :D
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Dear Stan and Girl Guide
Thank you so much for the replies.
They've both been very useful. I'm sorry I'm not sure how to reply to each post individually to say thanks you individually.
Thomas Packman's first baptism is Wesleyan in Dover, Kent, UK on 18 October 1829, giving DOB as 29 September 1829
The second baptism is 8 April 1832 at St Paul's Cray, Kent UK with DOB as 29 September 1831.
I believe there could easily be an error in birth date as they share 29 September as the day of birth, but wouldn't the priest have realised that Thomas wasn't a baby if he were rechristened in 1831?
I'll see if I can find any siblings for Amy Vallins to clarify her surname.
Thank you for your offer for help. I confused about Ann Packman's husband's parents so I'll try to post about that and what the problem I'm having is.
Thank you so much
Best wishes
Louise
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Thomas Packman's first baptism is Wesleyan in Dover, Kent, UK on 18 October 1829, giving DOB as 29 September 1829
The second baptism is 8 April 1832 at St Paul's Cray, Kent UK with DOB as 29 September 1831.
Apparently there were differences of opinion in the Church of England as to the validity of non-conformist baptism, which is probably why he was baptised again at the insistence of the vicar.
Stan
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Thank you Stan
Best wishes
Louise