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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: louisemcm on Wednesday 17 June 20 16:32 BST (UK)
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Hello
I'm trying to find the parents of Frederick Dickins/Dickens, born about 1836 in Quainton, Buckinghamshire, according to the 1851,1861 census.
I believe he married Ann Packman in July 1860 according to the records.
The 1851 census has his parents as Joseph and Elizabeth Dickins with him as the only child listed.
I found an 1841 census, which Ancestry lists at Dukins but Familysearch.org has as Dickins, which I believe is his family as he is the right age and the parents have the same names. The 1841 census lists a number of siblings living in Quainton.
I've not managed to find any baptism records for any of his siblings and only census records for his possible older brother George Dickins born around 1826.
The baptism records I've found all seem to have different parents listed and I'm wondering if I've mixed two different families up especially as Frederick's name appears as Friedrick, Fredrick and alternative spellings.
I think his father could be Joseph Dickins born about 1797 possibly in Cublington, Buckinghamshire married to an Elizabeth either born in 1797 or 1801
On familysearch.org I found a record for Joseph Dickins marrying Elizabeth Saunders on 16 Oct 1822 in Quainton but then I found another record for Elizabeth Saunders marrying someone else in Quainton on a later date which makes me confused as she'd have still been married to Joseph according to the children's dates of birth.
Other family trees have Joseph Dickins marrying Elizabeth Capel but I haven't found the evidence for this.
Is there a way of confirming the parents for Frederick Dickins without a baptism record?
Have I mixed up two different families as I don't understand why his siblings wouldn't be listed with him in the 1851 census.
I'd really appreciate any help or guidance.
Best wishes
Louise
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I believe he married Ann Packman in July 1860 according to the records.
You need to concentrate on what you know before trying to go further backwards. Which of their children was your ancestor? When and where was that child born?
Does his marriage cert confirm his father was Joseph?
1851 details for Bucks
Joseph Dickins 54 agric labourer (birthplace?? Christchurch)
Elizabeth 55 (birthplace?? Woodcott)
Frederick 14 b Quainton
Daniel Walker 64 visitor
HO107 Piece 1721 Folio 742 Page 7
1861 for Kent
Frederick Dickens 25 b Quainton
Ann Dickens 28 b St Paul's Cray Kent
RG9 Piece 464 Folio 145 Page 19
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Hi Carole
Louisa Dickens is my great-great-grandmother and she was born on 3 September 1875 in Orpington to Frederick Dickens and Ann Dickens nee Packman. (I ordered her birth certificate)
I've found the date of their wedding and have ordered their marriage certificate but haven't received it yet. I've been trying to do research whilst waiting for it to arrive but am lost trying to confirm the parentage of Frederick.
A family story I was told when young was that we are related to Charles Dickens somehow through Louisa Dickens' line of the family but I can't find out anything to verify if this was just a myth.
Thank you so much for looking up the record for me.
Best wishes
Louise
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I've had no luck finding the family on the 1841 to check details. Given that Joseph & Elizabeth were in their mid-50's in 1851 I would have expected to see older children in 1851 - but who knows??
Need that 1841 entry really
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I think in 1841 the family is transcribed as Dukins??
Joseph 45
Elizabeth 40
George 16
Eliza 13
Esther 10
Harriet 9
Fredrick 5
Catherine 2
Living in Quainton
all b in county
the older children were possibly married or working away from home -havent checked yet
cant find Esther or Catherine in 1851 but there is a death reg in Aylesbury reg district Mar qtr 1842 for Catherine Dickens and another death reg Aylesbury Sept qtr 1848 for Harriet Dickens - this may/may not be Frederick's sisters
Will check further
Suz
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DICKINS, CATHARINE mmn SANDERS
1838 Dec Quarter in AYLESBURY Volume 06 Page 293
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That 1841 entry is the clincher - well found Rosie ;D
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Buckingham marriage records
16 Oct 1822
Joseph Dickens
Elizabeth Saunders
Anglican
Quainton
Page 32
after Banns
witnesses George Saunders & Esther Saunders
Suz
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DICKINS, CATHARINE mmn SANDERS
1838 Dec Quarter in AYLESBURY Volume 06 Page 293
Thank you so much Suz and Rosie.
Does mmn in the entry above mean maiden name? I'm sorry, I'm very new to family history research so am not sure what some acronymns mean.
Does this mean that from the entry above, I can confirm that Joseph Dickins and Elizabeth SANDERS/SAUNDERS are the parents of the children, including Frederick, in the 1841 census.
Should I worry that there seems to be another marriage record for Elizabeth SAUNDERS in Quainton a few years after the 1822 wedding? Is it possible there is a different Elizabeth SAUNDERS?
Do you have any ideas on how I can find the baptism records for Frederick or sometime do baptism records not exist?
Thank you so, so much for your help
Best wishes
Louise
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DICKINS, CATHARINE mmn SANDERS
1838 Dec Quarter in AYLESBURY Volume 06 Page 293
Death in Q1 1842 is of a 3 year old - seems to match
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And Harriet who died 1848 was 16
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Thank you so much for the information on Catharine and Harriett Dickins, Mabel.
How did you find out how old they were when they died without having to buy a certificate from GRO? I've been doing lots of guessing and buying of certificates and getting lucky so far that I've found the right person.
Thanks so much again
Louise
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The GRO's own online index now shows ages for deaths
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
You have to register, but it's free
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DICKINS, CATHARINE mmn SANDERS
1838 Dec Quarter in AYLESBURY Volume 06 Page 293
Yes, it is Mothers maiden surname. You can get a PDF copy for £7 from the GRO link that Mabel has just given which is also where I found this record
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Census 1881 56 Quilter St Bethnal Green
DICKENS George head widr 55y warehouseman b. Sw*** Buckinghamshire
DICKENS Elizabeth mother wid. 84y b. Wesfeet Buckinghamshire
DICKENS Joseph * son 22y clerk b. Shreditch Middlesex
DICKENS Frederick son 19y furniture carver b. City Middlesex
DICKENS Emma niece 18y furniture makers assis. b. Orpington Kent
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The GRO's own online index now shows ages for deaths
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
You have to register, but it's free
Thank you so much. That is so useful to know.
Thank you so much everyone for helping me so much
Best wishes Louise
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Baptisms for Quainton are on findmypast but there are no Dickens entries at all.
I would suggest that their children were baptised in a non-conformist church whose records are not available online.
Annette
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[quote author=louisemcm link=topic=832934.msg6975624#msg6975624 date=15 I don't understand why his siblings wouldn't be listed with him in the 1851 census.
I'd really appreciate any help or guidance.
Best wishes
Louise
[/quote]
I cannot find baptisms for Frederick or his siblings but I have attempted to find them in later census - I think my findings show that Fredericks brother George lived in Middlesex and mother Elizabeth spent her widowed years with him
I'll post the census -you may already have found some of them - and I may be repeating some
1841 census shows in Quainton Joseph 45 Elizabeth 40 George 16 Eliza 13 Esther 10 Harriett 9 Frederick 5 Catherine 2
We have found that Harriet died age 16 and Catherine died age 3
I have found further details of George and I think it is the correct George as the census tie him in with mother Elizabeth and Frederick
1851
28 Appleby St Shoreditch
George Dickens unmarried 25 Quainton Bucks is in the household of William Nickells 33 Grocers Assistant b Hungerfors Berks and his wife Hannah and 3 children
HO107 1537 242 29
1861 I have not found George on the census and I believe he was married by 1861 and had 2 sons by then Stephen Shirley and Joseph George
Birth reg FreeBMD
Stephen Shirley Dickins Mar qtr 1857 Shoreditch nomothers maiden name found (Stephen married 1880
Joseph George Dickins Mar qtr 1859 Shoreditch mother's maiden name Cock (Joseph George died 1919)
George Dickins married Ann Cock 1855 ? London
I cannot find baptism records for George's children
there was another son Frederickb c. 1862 City of London
by 1871 George was a widower
120 Quilter Street Bethnal Green
George Dickens Head W 45 Warehouseman Quainton Bucks
S S son 14 Shoreditch
J G son 12 Shoreditch
F son 9 City london
Elizabeth Dickens Mother Widow 75 Bucks
RG10 478 9 12
1881
56 Quilter St Bethnal Green
George Dickens Head W 55 Warehouseman Quainton Bucks
Elizabeth Dickens Mother W 84 Westcott Bucks
Joseph G son U 22 Clerk Shoreditch
Frederick son U 19 Furniture caner City Middlesex
Emma Dickens neice 18 assistant cabinet maker Orpington Kent
RG11 413 22 38
Emma was the daughter of (your) Frederick- brother of George
This census ties the family together more
RG11 413 22 38
1891 33 Halliford St Islington
George Dickens Head M(orW?) 65 Grocer's Porter Quainton Bucks
RG12 165 5 5
so I am assuming mother Elizabeth died between 1881-91 in Middlesex
Joseph George Dickens married 5 Feb 1884 in Islington
Any additions corrections very welcome
As no baptism records can be found for George or any of his siblings and none found for George's children - I can only think they were possibly non conformist
I'll try to find siblings Esther and Eliza later unless they have already been found
Suz
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this is possibly Frederick's sister -livng close to him
1851
Village Orpington Kent
Martha Cubbidge Head W 75 Independant Bucks
Mary M Smith visitor U 40 Governess Brigg Lincs
HESTER DICKINGS servant U 20 House Servant Quainton Bucks
HO107 1606 378 11
Suz
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this is possibly Frederick's sister -livng close to him
1851
Village Orpington Kent
Martha Cubbidge Head W 75 Independant Bucks
Mary M Smith visitor U 40 Governess Brigg Lincs
HESTER DICKINGS servant U 20 House Servant Quainton Bucks
HO107 1606 378 11
Suz
Thanks so much for all the information that you have found out Suz.
You're so kind. It's so helpful.
Best wishes
Louise
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There's an Ester Dickens marriage in Aylesbury district in 1852. Husand appears to be JOhn Bristow, as there are two children with mmn Dickens born in the Bromley district soon after
Andrew Dickens Bristow 1853
Lydia Bristow 1855
Had issue finding them, but then I found Andrew D Bristow b 1853, parents John & Ester, dying in Wayne, Michigan in 1876
Here's the family immigrating in 1859
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:27T3-MTH
1860 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MW6M-GKC
Sadly entries I can see for Esther only ever say b England, so can;t confirm it's your Esther, but the place of marriage and age points that way
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Thank you so much Mabel. Wow!
I would never have ever been able to find that out.
If I order the marriage certificate for Esther Dickens and John Bristow would that confirm that it is my Esther Dickens as they might name her father or other witnesses on the marriage certificate?
I'd never seen immigration records before. It's amazing.
UPDATE: I've just found the records of her death in Michigan, USA and it gives her parents names as Joseph Dickins and Elizabeth Sanders (which helps confirm her mother's maiden name which I'd been researching)
Thank you so so much
Louise
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On 1851 census where "Hester Dickings is a servant in Orpington there is a Bristow family on the same page - wonder if they are related to John Bristow?
Suz
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On 1851 census where "Hester Dickings is a servant in Orpington there is a Bristow family on the same page - wonder if they are related to John Bristow?
Suz
I hadn't realised that family history research was like detective work. This is fascinating.
Thanks again