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General => The Stay Safe Board => Topic started by: Roobarb on Sunday 21 June 20 14:02 BST (UK)
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I'm interested to know about transmission of coronavirus on surfaces. I know there are all sorts of factors involved in this such as the type of surface and the ambient conditions but my question doesn't particularly relate to how long the virus lasts on those surfaces.
This is my question - I often quarantine some of my shopping in a plastic box in the garage. If there were objects stored there and the virus was present on one of the objects I put into it a day or two later, could the virus transfer from the second object to the first just by being next to it? Would I have to continue storing the first object for as long as the second? Would the virus transfer to the plastic box?
This is just a matter of interest, I know that the virus starts to break down even after a short time on surfaces.
While I'm here I'd like to ask a second question if I may. We're told about the length of times the virus lasts on hard surfaces and on fabrics but what about soft plastics such as carrier bags?
There were some Rootschatters with scientific knowledge who kindly replied to my questions some time ago, I'd very much appreciate their input again.
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Nobody has answered you so far. It's probably because we all feel ill-qualified to answer. I'm ill-qualified too. As an engineer though I like to kid myself and think of myself at times as a practical scientist!
A virus is not a living organism, and it doesn't multiply and grow on 'things'. A virus loses its potency or viability the longer it is outside the wonderful environment of the human (or whatever living host it likes).
So it likes moisture. If it's warm then it will have less moisture and deteriorate quicker. Labs store viruses in freezers. Hopefully, not next to their ice creams.
You can't see a virus even with the best optical microscope in the world. It's miniscule. It can only be viewed indirectly by a scanning electron microscope.
So let's think for a minute it you can transfer a virus from one surface to the next by objects touching each other.
We could imagine that if we had two hard plastics next to each other, entirely flat, then the surface finish could be excellent and uniform and there could be opportunity there for a miniscule thing to transfer across.
When you then start looking at other material, like soft plastics with creases the the contact area at any one time is much reduced. Also if you think of how miniscule a virus is, it only has to be on an item that has even the slightest amount of texture (even texture invisible to the human eye) for it to be almost completely lost in this texture.
It's a bit like if we lowered you gently into a rainforest. If we imagine you are the virus, and the rainforest is the texture of the material. If we then got a massive piece of cloth and lowered it on the roof of the rainforest and then removed it to see if you were then stuck on it, then we'd be unlikely to find you on that cloth.
The other thing worth bearing in mind is that it is believed that the severity of Covid-19 in individuals is related to the 'viral load' they get. So if you get a great big dose of it off something or somebody then it could hit you hard. If you get a tiny viral load then your body is much more likely to be able to fend it off.
So if we think of some shopping. There could be a proper good dose of a virus if somebody has coughed or sneezed into your bag or salivated all over your huge bar of chocolate that you've treated yourself to. That's not very likely to have happened though. Yes there could be a transfer of the virus onto the shopping, and that's why it's a good idea to think it through and quarantine items if possible.
It's a bit of a balance though I find. We have "click and collect". We normally get our email that it's been prepared and picked early in the morning, around 7am. We then collect it in the afternoon. So in that time items in the bags have already had some seven hours quarantine before we go to Asda to collect. I pack the car myself, and when we get home we bring the shopping into the hallway. I put perishables straight in the fridge or freezer. I accept the risk there could be a virus on them. I then wash my hands again, and then take out all the non-perishables out of their bags and space them apart in the hallway. This should dry out any virus. I then wash my hands again. We don't touch the items in the hallway until the following day.
Those are my thoughts on it. There is probably a better way of doing it, but it is a balance of risk. The fact that we do "click and collect" has probably reduced our risk massively before any other considerations.
I'll throw this thought-grenade in as a closing remark:
Perhaps getting a little tiny dose of the virus wouldn't be so bad after all?
Trystan
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Apparently according to the latest reports, the virus likes the cold and that is one reason why new cases have been reported from meat packing factories in England and Wales. Also they have discovered that freezing it puts it in to hibernation rather than killing it.
Has it been proved that anyone has ever caught the virus through touching things that have been bought or delivered, rather than through direct contact with an affected person?
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Info here which seems to summarize most info that I've read about it:
https://www.healthyfood.com/advice/can-freezing-your-food-kill-coronavirus/
Also info piece on Sky News before most commercial breaks.
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We wash our groceries in soap and water and rinse well. Perishables are put in clean bags and stored in the fridge and taken out in batches to be washed - maybe OTT bit we're still alive :-X
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A virus cannot replicate outside a living host so it cannot spread as such. It can, in theory be transferred from one item to another by touch. I am neurotic about cleaning stuff that comes into the house and recleaning stuff if it touches other things with washing my hands every couple of minutes. These days putting the shopping away takes hours.
When I can I open things using no touch technique (eg, pack of cereal bars) and wash mu hands before moving onto the next item.
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Thank you for replies.
Trystan, as an engineer your scientific knowledge does seem quite extensive. I found your explanation informative and quite entertaining! How did you know that I treated myself to a big bar of chocolate? ;D As for a tiny dose of the virus - as a (not severe) asthmatic I just daren't chance it.
PharmaT, I dispose of outer wrappings where possible and commonsense tells me that anything inside hasn't been touched by human hand, just packed by machinery in the factory. I am pretty scrupulous about wiping everything else.
The news about cold environments is certainly interesting, perhaps I should leave my tinned goods out in the sunshine when the weather is nice rather than putting them in the cooler garage.
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IMHO as a lay person, observing matters some months downstream of the original occurrence...
While we undoubtedly know a lot more than we used to about this virus, the continuing lack of consensus among scientific / medical experts and their regular expression of diverse opinions on any one of a range of aspects relating to this virus, suggests to me that we're still at the 'unknown unknowns' stage of understanding. Which is scary.
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gaffy's comment is in keeping with some of the findings in the latest ONS study of the impact of covid on social/lifestyle aspects
Deleted as posted on the wrong thread when my WiFi had a nap!
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We used to wash fresh foods before putting them in the fridge, empty out prepacked fresh items. Frozen food either removed from it's container and repackaged, or washed with soapy water. Eggs transferred to a different egg box. Cupboard goods isolated on a designated quarantine shelf.
Adds a good half hour if not longer to unpacking.
This week we ventured into Aldi for shopping, didn't buy very much. Instead of washing the fresh food or decanting it, we put it in a clean carrier bag in the bottom drawer of the fridge. Anything needed immediately we took appropriate precautions with, the rest left untouched for 3 days.
Home delivery expected today, might try the same again.
Time taken considerably reduced.
Regards Margaret
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I haven't taken any extra precautions after a grocery delivery, apart from washing my hands after putting it all away and washing fruit as I do normally anyway. I haven't read about anyone who has been shielding or self isolating and who has contracted the virus without coming into contact with another person. If this had happened I'm sure it would have made the news. I think the chances of contracting it this way are very slim and if it was being passed on in this way, we would have had outbreaks that could be traced back to a particular store or delivery.
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Nobody has answered you so far. It's probably because we all feel ill-qualified to answer. I'm ill-qualified too. As an engineer though I like to kid myself and think of myself at times as a practical scientist!
A virus is not a living organism, and it doesn't multiply and grow on 'things'. A virus loses its potency or viability the longer it is outside the wonderful environment of the human (or whatever living host it likes).
So it likes moisture. If it's warm then it will have less moisture and deteriorate quicker. Labs store viruses in freezers. Hopefully, not next to their ice creams.
Sense at last. I would however note that not only do labs store viruses in “freezers” the storage temperature is as low as −70°C or lower but the samples have been pre-processed first
You can't see a virus even with the best optical microscope in the world. It's miniscule. It can only be viewed indirectly by a scanning electron microscope.
So let's think for a minute it you can transfer a virus from one surface to the next by objects touching each other.
We could imagine that if we had two hard plastics next to each other, entirely flat, then the surface finish could be excellent and uniform and there could be opportunity there for a miniscule thing to transfer across.
Agreed but two flat objects are seldom flat but often slightly convex or concave leaving areas which do not touch, so it is likely that even on a flat surface transfer might not occur
When you then start looking at other material, like soft plastics with creases the the contact area at any one time is much reduced. Also if you think of how miniscule a virus is, it only has to be on an item that has even the slightest amount of texture (even texture invisible to the human eye) for it to be almost completely lost in this texture.
This is in reality the opposite effect of two flat objects above because the soft plastic such as a bag is flexible it often takes the shape of the object it is placed on meaning that in many cases a transfer could happen
It's a bit like if we lowered you gently into a rainforest. If we imagine you are the virus, and the rainforest is the texture of the material. If we then got a massive piece of cloth and lowered it on the roof of the rainforest and then removed it to see if you were then stuck on it, then we'd be unlikely to find you on that cloth.
The other thing worth bearing in mind is that it is believed that the severity of Covid-19 in individuals is related to the 'viral load' they get. So if you get a great big dose of it off something or somebody then it could hit you hard. If you get a tiny viral load then your body is much more likely to be able to fend it off.
So if we think of some shopping. There could be a proper good dose of a virus if somebody has coughed or sneezed into your bag or salivated all over your huge bar of chocolate that you've treated yourself to. That's not very likely to have happened though. Yes there could be a transfer of the virus onto the shopping, and that's why it's a good idea to think it through and quarantine items if possible.
Agreed, in addition if someone has coughed or sneezed into their hand then handled un-bagged fruit & vegetables it is possible for them to transfer virus onto that product, which is why I tend to avoid fruit and veg that might be eaten without cooking
It's a bit of a balance though I find. We have "click and collect". We normally get our email that it's been prepared and picked early in the morning, around 7am. We then collect it in the afternoon. So in that time items in the bags have already had some seven hours quarantine before we go to Asda to collect. I pack the car myself, and when we get home we bring the shopping into the hallway. I put perishables straight in the fridge or freezer. I accept the risk there could be a virus on them. I then wash my hands again, and then take out all the non-perishables out of their bags and space them apart in the hallway. This should dry out any virus. I then wash my hands again. We don't touch the items in the hallway until the following day.
Those are my thoughts on it. There is probably a better way of doing it, but it is a balance of risk. The fact that we do "click and collect" has probably reduced our risk massively before any other considerations.
I'll throw this thought-grenade in as a closing remark:
Perhaps getting a little tiny dose of the virus wouldn't be so bad after all?
Trystan
The problem with your closing remark is that is unknown. In the normal course of events having an infection often protects from a second infection and if a second infection does occur it tends to be milder than the first.
As Covid-19 is a new virus that has not been proved to occur, the general opinion is it will hold true but there is also a fear that a second infection after a mild infection could be more damaging than never having an infection in the first place, but again this is only a small possibility.
Cheers
Guy
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The news about cold environments is certainly interesting, perhaps I should leave my tinned goods out in the sunshine when the weather is nice rather than putting them in the cooler garage.
I wouldn't leave tins out in sunshine.
Although it might help dry them out quicker, the safe storage of food in tins depends on them remaining 100% sealed.
Because you can't control how hot the tin might get in the sunshine there is a risk of the contents heating up and expanding to the point where the pressure 'bursts' the seal.
This won't necessarily be an explosive (and messy ;D ) burst - it could be invisible, but enough to compromise the safety of the food within.
A cool - but well ventilated - garage shouldn't be a problem. Remember that clothes will dry on a line outside when it is quite cold, so long as there is enough ventilation (wind).
If the ventilation is poor and you sometimes get condensation then it is the wrong environment to store tins in any circumstances - as you risk them going rusty and the contents becoming unsafe.
The whole purpose of tinning is to keep food fresh and safe for a long period of time (if the tin is kept in the right conditions) which is far longer than anyone suggests Coronavirus can survive for at normal ambient temperatures.
So if you are concerned then use that long period of time to minimise the risk from something on the outside of the tin, rather than rush the process (e.g. by putting the tins in hot sunshine) and risk compromising the safety of what is inside the tin.
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Found this article
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200317-covid-19-how-long-does-the-coronavirus-last-on-surfaces
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I haven't taken any extra precautions after a grocery delivery, apart from washing my hands after putting it all away and washing fruit as I do normally anyway. I haven't read about anyone who has been shielding or self isolating and who has contracted the virus without coming into contact with another person. If this had happened I'm sure it would have made the news. I think the chances of contracting it this way are very slim and if it was being passed on in this way, we would have had outbreaks that could be traced back to a particular store or delivery.
Probably correct, though not everyone knows where they picked it up.
It is still a relatively new virus, not everything is known about it's capabilities.
But washing/quarantining shopping and mail costs nothing but time.
I'll carry on for the time being, but perfectly understand that not everyone will want to do so.
Regards Margaret
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Sugarfizzle - I believe the virus lasts better in a cold environment, so quarantining things for a while in garage or hallway is likely to be more effective than putting them in the bottom of the fridge.
Also: I have a friend who, with husband and 2 disabled sons, has been isolating (to shield,) since lockdown.
For 8 weeks she has been suffering Covid symptoms. Other 3 members of household not displaying any signs of illness. Friend is perplexed how she has caught this, especially when other family have not.
I am presuming it was either due to contagion on packaging of something delivered, or her family have also had mild illness without obvious symptoms.
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For 8 weeks she has been suffering Covid symptoms. Other 3 members of household not displaying any signs of illness.
It may not be Covid 19, I know of someone who had what appeared to be symptoms, was taken into hospital, tested negative twice and diagnosed as pneumonia.
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For 8 weeks she has been suffering Covid symptoms. Other 3 members of household not displaying any signs of illness.
It may not be Covid 19, I know of someone who had what appeared to be symptoms, was taken into hospital, tested negative twice and diagnosed as pneumonia.
Yes, perfectly possible. I gather one of the difficulties with Covid 19 is that it presents in so many different ways.
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The news about cold environments is certainly interesting, perhaps I should leave my tinned goods out in the sunshine when the weather is nice rather than putting them in the cooler garage.
I wouldn't leave tins out in sunshine.
Although it might help dry them out quicker, the safe storage of food in tins depends on them remaining 100% sealed.
Because you can't control how hot the tin might get in the sunshine there is a risk of the contents heating up and expanding to the point where the pressure 'bursts' the seal.
This won't necessarily be an explosive (and messy ;D ) burst - it could be invisible, but enough to compromise the safety of the food within.
A cool - but well ventilated - garage shouldn't be a problem. Remember that clothes will dry on a line outside when it is quite cold, so long as there is enough ventilation (wind).
If the ventilation is poor and you sometimes get condensation then it is the wrong environment to store tins in any circumstances - as you risk them going rusty and the contents becoming unsafe.
The whole purpose of tinning is to keep food fresh and safe for a long period of time (if the tin is kept in the right conditions) which is far longer than anyone suggests Coronavirus can survive for at normal ambient temperatures.
So if you are concerned then use that long period of time to minimise the risk from something on the outside of the tin, rather than rush the process (e.g. by putting the tins in hot sunshine) and risk compromising the safety of what is inside the tin.
Nick_Ips, my comment was partly tongue in cheek, I did think perhaps I would leave the tins out briefly on their way to the garage. I certainly wouldn't want them exploding! What a picture that conjures up. ;D There's no damp in my garage so I'll continue with leaving them there for a while on their journey to my kitchen cupboards.
Apart from a friend bringing me some perishables, my main grocery shop is currently by supermarket delivery. I'm assuming that the goods that the packers are handling are direct from the boxes sent from the factories, which in turn would have been packed by machine. That does cut down the number of people who have handled the goods. I'm more concerned about such things as bread from the supermarket, people do have a bad habit of squeezing loaves or picking them up and then deciding on a different one. (I only buy packaged bread).
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Sugarfizzle - I believe the virus lasts better in a cold environment, so quarantining things for a while in garage or hallway is likely to be more effective than putting them in the bottom of the fridge.
Back to the drawing board, Margaret.
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Sugarfizzle - I believe the virus lasts better in a cold environment, so quarantining things for a while in garage or hallway is likely to be more effective than putting them in the bottom of the fridge.
Back to the drawing board, Margaret.
But certain things would go off if left in the garage for a few days - eg. cream, meats, yogurt, etc.
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I certainly wouldn't want them exploding! What a picture that conjures up. ;D
At least if the tins exploded everywhere there would be no question whether the contents would remain safe for any length of time. ;D
I agree with what you say about bread - that isn't something you can keep in quarantine for very long before using it - and people do have a habit of handling it a lot in the shops.
I've switched to buying only bread in completely sealed plastic bags (not the ones with breathing holes) and wipe the outside of the bag over with disinfectant spray as soon as I get it home. The lack of holes is important to stop the spray getting inside and contaminating the bread.
I'd prefer to get the part-baked bread as it comes in air-tight packaging which is much easier to wipe over, but I've found it much harder to buy since people went mad with the stockpiling.
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Nobody has answered you so far. It's probably because we all feel ill-qualified to answer. ...
I'll throw this thought-grenade in as a closing remark:
Perhaps getting a little tiny dose of the virus wouldn't be so bad after all?
Trystan
In two hospitals I have heard about, they have ZERO :) Covid-19 patients.
My Sister-in-Law is a Manager at a large Scottish Hospital for a Region and they have had NO :) Covid-19 patients for a month!
Our hospital had 50 middle of last week, so I find it odd. Our M.P., says there is a lot of disability here. (True).
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https://www.itnonline.com/content/multi-institutional-study-looks-brain-mri-findings-covid-19
Covid-19 is not all about 'no symptoms' or 'a mild cold' or gasping for breath on a Ventilator.
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I've had a brain condition (after MRIs) for 20 years and still suffer the original same symptoms, but had some additional strange symptoms in April 2020, one felt like the pain of being struck on the skull with a hammer (under investigation as out-patient and waiting for the opinion of an MRI head scan this month). I'm also left now with extremely severe tiredness with very mild headache.
I've had no problem sleeping at night for years.
I'm under 60 but now having to lie down in the afternoon (often sleeping) and also take other rest or sleep in the day and evening.
It might be that a stroke coincidentally occurred, but if it turns out to be Covid-19 I'd prefer not to run my chances with it again.
Cold Tap Water
My ancestors were Brewers (which is mashed at heat), so I've been boiling our tap water AND letting it cool for drinking. My late Grandfather said drinking well, is essential if you should get a viral illness.
Mark :)
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Sugarfizzle - I believe the virus lasts better in a cold environment, so quarantining things for a while in garage or hallway is likely to be more effective than putting them in the bottom of the fridge.
Back to the drawing board, Margaret.
But certain things would go off if left in the garage for a few days - eg. cream, meats, yogurt, etc.
Quite so, especially as the weather here in UK is due to warm up again this week.
Things need to go in the fridge, so it's back to the washing or decanting again. But the time taken to order, receive, and wash down an online order is probably still less than going out to buy the stuff in the ordinary way.
Regards Margaret
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More than anything else about this blasted epidemic, I resent being turned into a germaphobe. I have never before worried about germs at all, including five years of drinking untreated water straight out of the river. And that approach has always worked for me. Now I find myself wondering if I should wash off cans of tuna and bags of macaroni and then giving in to the impulse.
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One can become slightly paranoid about all this and dealing with shopping is a stressful activity...
I have click & collect... when I get home wearing gloves it all goes straight into the garage onto a large bench... anything that isn't perishable stays in there for 72hours. I wash everything that us sealed, vacuum packed in soapy water in the kitchen. Hoping no bag has slight hole as soapy cheese doesn't appeal or soapy tasting roast chicken! So far so good.
Other items either get wiped with anti bac wipe or pkt opened contents put into a new bag/container for fridge or freezer.
All post is isolated in the porch for 72hrs whether urgent or not!
I do also go into local greengrocers and butchers all items from there treated the same ...
Outside car handles, bootlid wiped down... I used to do steering wheel and everything inside I'd touched but as it's only me that uses the car and I only go out every 20-14 days I don't do inside anymore.... wear gloves for everything but take them off when I get in the car...
Not bought any bread for weeks as O.H bakes all we need.
Interesting reading others scientific ideas...
Caroline
What more you can do I don't know!
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I did the washing groceries thing for a couple of shopping deliveries by son, then read that it wasn't necessary, so I now just unpack them and put them away as normal.
I don't do any extra hand-washing unless I've been outside the gate. Even then, I don't really touch anything when I'm out. I used sanitizer when we visited my brother, and we brought our own handtowels for the loo.
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Apart from a friend bringing me some perishables, my main grocery shop is currently by supermarket delivery. I'm assuming that the goods that the packers are handling are direct from the boxes sent from the factories, which in turn would have been packed by machine. That does cut down the number of people who have handled the goods. I'm more concerned about such things as bread from the supermarket, people do have a bad habit of squeezing loaves or picking them up and then deciding on a different one. (I only buy packaged bread).
Probably will make people even more paranoid but the packers shop in the ordinary store and put your shopping into their trolleys before it is sent to you - it is not from the boxes of goods that they receive as stock. You see them around the supermarket all the time whilst the rest of us are shopping.
Pheno
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I have never before worried about germs at all, including five years of drinking untreated water straight out of the river. And that approach has always worked for me.
Erato, drinking straight out of the river sounds interesting :)
If you come to England, don't drink from the Rivers here.
Regarding my bread I'm removing it from packet, washing hands and toasting it both sides 8)
Mark
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More than anything else about this blasted epidemic, I resent being turned into a germaphobe. I have never before worried about germs at all, including five years of drinking untreated water straight out of the river. And that approach has always worked for me. Now I find myself wondering if I should wash off cans of tuna and bags of macaroni and then giving in to the impulse.
You should try the Novak Djokovic approach - positive thoughts and emotions can, apparently, purify water.
I haven't brought myself to watch the relevant conversation on Instagram, but this is a transcription:
I know some people that, through energetical transformation, through the power of prayer, through the power of gratitude, they managed to turn the most toxic food, or maybe most polluted water into the most healing water, because water reacts. Scientists have proven that in experiment, that molecules in the water react to our emotions to what has been said
:-X
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I did the washing groceries thing for a couple of shopping deliveries by son, then read that it wasn't necessary, so I now just unpack them and put them away as normal.
I don't do any extra hand-washing unless I've been outside the gate. Even then, I don't really touch anything when I'm out. I used sanitizer when we visited my brother, and we brought our own handtowels for the loo.
What a relief to hear this Eadaoin - I though I was the only one! :D
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Probably will make people even more paranoid but the packers shop in the ordinary store and put your shopping into their trolleys before it is sent to you - it is not from the boxes of goods that they receive as stock. You see them around the supermarket all the time whilst the rest of us are shopping.
Pheno
Not from where I get mine - it comes from the Waitrose Customer Fulfilment Centre, not the local store. It used to until about 3 years ago, but then they changed it. It's much better now as I rarely get any substitutions or unavailable. The delivery drivers aren't so happy as rather than local they are sent all over the place!
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You should try the Novak Djokovic approach - positive thoughts and emotions can, apparently, purify water.
I haven't brought myself to watch the relevant conversation on Instagram, but this is a transcription:
I know some people that, through energetical transformation, through the power of prayer, through the power of gratitude, they managed to turn the most toxic food, or maybe most polluted water into the most healing water, because water reacts. Scientists have proven that in experiment, that molecules in the water react to our emotions to what has been said
:-X
I must have missed reading that in any of the science journals. You'd have thought it would have been bigger news.
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Apart from a friend bringing me some perishables, my main grocery shop is currently by supermarket delivery. I'm assuming that the goods that the packers are handling are direct from the boxes sent from the factories, which in turn would have been packed by machine. That does cut down the number of people who have handled the goods. I'm more concerned about such things as bread from the supermarket, people do have a bad habit of squeezing loaves or picking them up and then deciding on a different one. (I only buy packaged bread).
Probably will make people even more paranoid but the packers shop in the ordinary store and put your shopping into their trolleys before it is sent to you - it is not from the boxes of goods that they receive as stock. You see them around the supermarket all the time whilst the rest of us are shopping.
Pheno
I haven't been to a supermarket since the lockdown but prior to that I'd never seen these people you refer to, only people stacking shelves from a large trolley. As you can change your order up to 10pm the night before I think it's highly unlikely that this is what these people are, it wouldn't make sense. I would very much doubt that they have to browse the shelves looking for substitutes during opening hours, it's much more likely that the picking and packing is done after the shop shuts.
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No it is done first thing in the morning generally Roobarb and certainly in most supermarkets they go round with a trolley just like you or I and take from the shelves, maybe not in the one groom mentions.
I don't wash or quarantine anything, just wash hands when coming in from outside. Personally, I think that becoming a 'virophobe' is partly responsible for the depressive state some people find themselves in, which will probably be difficult to emerge from.
Pheno
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I would very much doubt that they have to browse the shelves looking for substitutes during opening hours, it's much more likely that the picking and packing is done after the shop shuts.
The different supermarket chains all have slightly different methods, and it can vary from location to location within one chain.
Tesco certainly have staff going round the store during normal opening hours picking orders from the shelves.
They use a different kind of trolley* to regular customers, and frankly can be a right pain because the trolley is so large - and could be used to pick more than one order at a time - so the staff might leave the trolley blocking an aisle for some time whilst they pick the different items in that location.
The shelf filling is usually done from cages (a tall metal cage on wheels) that are transported from the distribution depots to the stores. The boxes/outer packaging on those isn't opened until the cage gets to the display shelf in the store.
That's for the big Tesco stores.... your supermarket might do things differently.
(*Not to be confused with another set of staff with yet another different type of trolley who go round checking perishable stock for items close to the use by date and then take them to the discounted item shelf.)
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You should try the Novak Djokovic approach - positive thoughts and emotions can, apparently, purify water.
I haven't brought myself to watch the relevant conversation on Instagram, but this is a transcription:
I know some people that, through energetical transformation, through the power of prayer, through the power of gratitude, they managed to turn the most toxic food, or maybe most polluted water into the most healing water, because water reacts. Scientists have proven that in experiment, that molecules in the water react to our emotions to what has been said
:-X
I must have missed reading that in any of the science journals. You'd have thought it would have been bigger news.
Mike you clearly don’t read that invaluable and rigorous scientific journal known as Novak Djokovic’s Instagram account :-X
I haven't been to a supermarket since the lockdown but prior to that I'd never seen these people you refer to, only people stacking shelves from a large trolley. As you can change your order up to 10pm the night before I think it's highly unlikely that this is what these people are, it wouldn't make sense. I would very much doubt that they have to browse the shelves looking for substitutes during opening hours, it's much more likely that the picking and packing is done after the shop shuts.
During my pre-lockdown daytime visits to Tesco I frequently encountered members of staff picking orders for click & collect and deliveries.
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Novak Djokovic has since tested positive ;D ;D ;D
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Novak Djokovic has since tested positive ;D ;D ;D
He didn't wash his hands enough
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I'm going to try the "power of gratitude" on my ailing water pump to see if it can hold out until Maestro Francisco can get here from his home in the far northern part of the city. I don't blame him for not wanting to risk a long ride on public transportation.
I admit that I have also become quite sloppy and haphazard in washing down incoming groceries.
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Novak Djokovic has since tested positive ;D ;D ;D
He didn't wash his hands enough
He's acted very irresponsibly. http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pmy/ and http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pmz/
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A big question for the scientific RCers - what is 1m plus ???
I was good at Maths but I can't work this out
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I'm going to try the "power of gratitude" on my ailing water pump
Please do let us know how you get on.
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A big question for the scientific RCers - what is 1m plus ???
I was good at Maths but I can't work this out
I never managed an A+ in maths, but the engineer in me says it’s any distance greater than 1 metre,
as no tolerances are specified. :)
Addendum. A wicked thought has occurred to me, from which part of the anatomy do we measure
Mike
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Well, that's it. I'm breaking out and going to Whitley Bay for the afternoon ;D
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A big question for the scientific RCers - what is 1m plus ???
I was good at Maths but I can't work this out
I never managed an A+ in maths, but the engineer in me says it’s any distance greater than 1 metre,
as no tolerances are specified. :)
Addendum. A wicked thought has occurred to me, from which part of the anatomy do we measure
Mike
It is very simple and nothing to do with maths.
The rule in England is the 2 metre rule applies in most circumstances but in certain circumstances that is not practicable, in those circumstances it is permissible to observe the one metre plus rule
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That means observing a minimum distance of one metre from other people but using other safety measures to reduce the risk to oneself and other people.
These could include wearing a face covering, wearing a face mask, being separated by a screen not touch surfaces or objects if there is no need to touch them, etc., etc.
But you know that anyway
Cheers
Guy
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Addendum. A wicked thought has occurred to me, from which part of the anatomy do we measure
Mike
Well that's obvious, which ever part of the anatomy sticks out the furthest. ;D ;D
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That definitely rules out our Waltz and Quickstep then. ;D ;D
Mike and Mazi
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Addendum. A wicked thought has occurred to me, from which part of the anatomy do we measure
Mike
Well that's obvious, which ever part of the anatomy sticks out the furthest. ;D ;D
but only if you wear a mask/face covering ;D
Add - Whitley Bay was observing all the distance advice this afternoon, with more cars than people :D
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Hope you enjoyed Whitley Bay. Haven't been for a while though husband has. The family like tynemouth . I like beadnell/ craster/ dunstanburgh and husband likes to call for fish and chips at Seahouses. Until we're sure there are loos, we won't be venturing that far.
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Haven't been there since before lockdown. A little stroll along the sea front and then a trip to the quayside at North Shields via Tynemouth. The Northumberland coast is special :)
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It looks that we've strayed off the topic, so I've locked this one for posterity.
Stay safe all. :)