RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: louisemcm on Friday 26 June 20 18:15 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone
My grand-mother Phyllis Louisa Mary Watson nee Wood died on 19th February 1949 in Goldsel Road, Swanley, Kent. My mother was at boarding school at the time and wasn't allowed to come back for the funeral, my mum also died 30 years ago and my remaining relatives don't know what happened to Phyllis.
Phyllis was born 23 December 1907.
I believe that Phyllis must be buried/cremated in the environs of the Swanley area as she lived there and so many of her family lived there too.
I know that Phyllis is not in the graveyards at All Souls Crockenhill or the Baptist Union graveyard, even though several of her relatives on the Wood side of the family are.
I've tried "Findagrave" and "Billion graves" and searched the cremation records at Eltham Crematorium via "deceasedonline" but have found nothing. North West Kent family history society couldn't find any records for a burial/cremation either.
I tried searching the British newspaper archives but didn't find any notices about her death.
I'd like to take my children and visit her final resting place but am feeling that her body seems to have just disappeared.
I'm new at research so maybe I've missed something.
Please could any one advise me on how I could find out where Phyllis is
Many thanks
Louise
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She left a will. Husband was one of the executors. Outside chance she may have included burial details.
You can download a copy for £1.50
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
Have asked moderator to move your post to the Kent board
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Hi
So sorry, wrong information.
Cathy
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Thanks so much CaroleW.
If you have probate does that mean that you have a will? (Sorry I'm new to this!).
I've ordered her will (hopefully I've done it correctly). I'm assuming that the town listed in bold is what you put down as the registry.
Let's see if there is any information on it when I get it.
Best wishes
Louise
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How about Google to find out local cemeteries, I wonder, would she have been cremated as early as the date given
Louisa Maud
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Yes - she left a will as it was a grant of probate - not a grant of administration
Sounds as though you have done ok when ordering as it would have errored you otherwise. Don't get your hopes up though - there may be nothing re burial in the will
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Hi, Louise:
My suggestion would be to contact the churches in the area. Churchyard cemeteries are private and therefore their records are not included with the local/council burial records. If she was buried in a churchyard cemetery, it's possible that the register in question is still physically at the church, and therefore would need to be consulted in person by someone who works or volunteers there. If the register has been transferred to an archive somewhere, someone at the church should be able to tell you where.
Regards,
Josephine
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Thanks everyone. I'll try to contact some churches and I'll see if anything comes back when I get the will.
I'm going to have to learn what grants of probate and administration are. There's so much to learn as a newbie at family history research.
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Do you know where her parents are buried? If yes I imagine you’ve tried that already.
Have you tried Swanley Parish Church ( St Mary the Virgin)? They have a website which will have contact details.
How about the local paper of the time?
There’s a Swanley History Group They have a website and email who might be able to help.
If I think of anything else I’ll post again.
Where was Phyllis married? Which church did they attend?
Her father’s accident and death was reported in the Sevenoaks Chronicle and Kentish Advertiser.
Added
Having reread the newspaper report the service and burial where at Crockenhill Baptist church and he’s as you probably know buried there as there is a stone.
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Do you know where her parents are buried?
Or your grandfather's burial place?
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What about Phyllis’s husband where’s he buried?
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Think that's what I asked... ;D
ADDED:
Marriages Dec 1936
CHURCHES Gwendoline M Walkden Dartford 2a
Watson Leslie H Wood Dartford 2a 1933
Wood Phyllis L M Watson Dartford 2a 1933
Death
Leslie Hubert Watson b 18 Jun 1913 death registered Nov 1984 aged 71
Gravesend RD Volume 16 Page 922
Probate states he was also living in Swanley at time of death & cremated at Greenwich from deceased online.
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Both Hither Green and Eltham Crematorium opened in 1956 so she won’t have been cremated there but could be buried there but I would expect her to be a bit nearer home. Could she have been buried with her parents but not remembered on the gravestone?
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Thanks everyone.
Phyllis's husband, Leslie Watson, remarried very quickly in November 1949, and was cremated in 1984 at Eltham Cemetery.
Her mother Louisa Wood died in 1965 and was also cremated at Eltham crematorium.
Her father Leopold Wood and sister Dulcie are buried at Union Church Baptist churchyard in Crockenhill, Kent. I was told that there isn't a memorial for her at the Baptist cemetery but I don't know if the parish register was checked to see if she was buried without a memorial. I didn't know that there was a possibility someone could be buried without a memorial :'(.
She was married at the Congregational Church in Swanley. I emailed Christchurch church Swanley, as I think that might be the renamed Congregational church, but haven't heard anything back. Obviously that could be due to COVID.
I couldn't find any newspaper articles about her death. I did find the one about Leopold's death and burial in 1920.
Swanley history group suggested "Findagrave" and put me in touch with FELHS who didn't find a record of Phyllis being buried in Crockenhill.
Thanks everyone for all the help.
Best wishes
Louise
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You've been assiduous in your search! Most of my rellies are buried without a memorial....
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I know that Phyllis is not in the graveyards at All Souls Crockenhill or the Baptist Union graveyard, even though several of her relatives on the Wood side of the family are.
Have you actually checked the burial records of these two places? If you are going by the fact that there is no memorial in either place do bear in mind that very many people have no memorial stone.
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Perhaps the most likely is that she is with her parents. Having searched many graveyards over the last 20 years there are many of my relatives buried in the churchyard but with no gravestone.
My great grandfather has a surprisingly long obituary in the local paper but no gravestone in the cemetery!
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Thanks everyone. I'll try to contact some churches and I'll see if anything comes back when I get the will.
I'm going to have to learn what grants of probate and administration are. There's so much to learn as a newbie at family history research.
If you have her marriage certificate that should give her denomination which may help narrow down your church search.
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The address on the death certificate is Swanley, Sutton at Hone. Have you tried Sutton-at-Hone church. The burials register is at Medway Archives but is not available online and is noted as unfit for production. You would need to speak to the Archive once they are open again.
MAry
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Sutton at Hone burial records are available online
http://cityark.medway.gov.uk/wwwopacx/wwwopac.ashx?command=getcontent&server=files&value=P358-01-19.pdf
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Thank you so much Bearkat for getting the register.
I looked through it and didn't see an entry for her burial in 1949.
I've emailed the pastor at the Baptist Church in Crockenhill to see if there is an entry for her in the records even though there is no memorial.
I'll see if the Baptist Church or Christchurch in Swanley get back to me with any information and I'll see if there is anything in Phyllis's will when I get it.
I actually took my first journey out, since lockdown, and drove to Crockenhill. I found the graves of Phyllis's father and sister in the Baptist cemetery and put some flowers there.
I wonder if she is buried with them.
Thank you so much everybody
Best wishes
Louise
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Have you tried interment.net ?
I stumbled across it last week while looking for something else.
All cemetery’s are listed but not all burials have been recorded yet.
I was amazed to find my Dad listed, who only died two years ago.
It was interesting to read so many names from my childhood which I didn’t realise where there as they have no stone.
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Hi everyone
Thank you so much for your help.
I think I've found where Phyllis is buried.
After Gibel suggested that she could have been buried without a headstone, I contacted the Union Baptist Church in Crockenhill and have just had a reply saying that:
"According to the burial records Phyllis Watson is recorded on the 1949 burials page . It is a little strange as none of the usual details such as 'abode', 'when buried,' 'age' and who officiated at the burial are recorded. But one detail is given and that is 'same grave as 136' which is her father's grave so one can only assume that her remains are interned there"
That must mean that she's in the Baptist graveyard mustn't it as she's in the book even if there are no details?
Thank you so much everyone, as I wouldn't have gone back and asked the Baptist church, after being told that there was no memorial for her in the graveyard, as I didn't know that people were buried without memorials.
I'm so happy as I was very worried that I would never find her grave.
Best wishes Louise
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Glad you found her.
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:)
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Help of rootschatters & persistence pays off once again...pleased for you.
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It was fairly common, in years gone by, to purchase a burial plot suitable for 2 or 4 bodies.
My paternal grandparents share a grave with her parents - 4 bodies in all.
Various other family members are buried with others of their family, too.
Indeed, on my walk into town, I take a short-cut through a churchyard.
I would say that the majority of graves are for more than 1 person.
Whether there is a name added to a memorial stone rather depends on the surviving family - who had to pay for the service.