RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: joemc on Monday 29 June 20 19:53 BST (UK)
-
Hi I was wondering if anyone can identify this uniform, not sure if its military, maybe Fire Brigade?
I think it's from Ireland, late 19C perhaps?
Thanks for any help, Joe
-
I'm wondering if he may be a postman with his bag, I have never seen a fireman with a strap across his body, but that doesn't mean to say none of them do. The numbers on the hat are puzzling though, because firemen in America and possibly elsewhere do have the number of their station on them. Sorry I have not been much help, :-\
Pat
-
Thanks for reply, yeah maybe not sure if postmen had numbers on hats, I was thinking maybe a train giard. Or maybe it is military
-
Hi Joe, I think this could be railway related, there is something on the chair, could it be a whistle? He could be a railway guard or ticket collector. I believe the photo is earlier than your suggestion, it looks more 1860s/70s to me. Is there any chance that you could post the back including the corners to help with dating?
Carol
-
Thanks for the input, unfortunately the photo is not mine, it was posted on a FB genealogy page, I was just trying to help. Not sure what that is on the chair. I thought a small baton, but hard to say, looks to big for a whistle. I will see if I can get anymore details from poster, they seemed to think it was military.
-
Hi,
I would suggest you re-post this to the Armed Forces page for comment.
What stands out most to me are the crown and ‘pip’ rank badges on his collar. That does not necessarily mean he is military as, I believe, Police forces, former and current, use similar badges.
Second, the number on his cap might be useful details for those way better informed than me.
Good luck with your research.
Simon
-
Spurs on his boots?
Wearing at least 2 medals.
Something about it makes me think American uniform.
-
No, definitely British/British Empire. Note on his cross belt there is a starred badge with a Victorian crown on it. Saying that, acknowledging the comment about it possibly being Irish, I think it might also be non-UK uniform, i.e. Australia, New Zealand etc. On the spurs, as a 'field officer' equivalent (although the crown and pip have not always indicated a Lieutenant-Colonel or equivalent) he would be 'mounted' and so wear spurs.
To the original poster, definitely try the Armed Forces board for more informed comment.
Regards.
Simon
-
Thank you for all the replies so far, great to get some well informed opinions, yes I will repost or can admin transfer to armed forces forum?
Thanks again
Joe
-
Agree it's 1860's but to have any chance we need to know where in the world it was taken.
-
I have asked poster for more information, if they have any, it's from an old photo album and they don't have a name, that much I do know
Thanks for all input, hopefully I will get more information
-
For what it is worth, if this proves to be (a) a military person and (b) the unit can be identified (from the number on the cap) and (c) given the senior rank of the person, and finally (d) a bracket for the date, then it would limit the number of possible people to a pretty narrow field. If it is an army person then the Army List of the time would name all people who held that rank in that unit over time. If this is a police officer or other government official, then I am afraid I am clueless.
-
The 96th. Regt. of Foot spent most of the 1860's overseas.
The uniform looks more pseudo-military, the felt cap doesn't
look British Army to me.
Possibly Militia but who's.
-
Hi all. I persuaded the person who was asking about photo to remove from album
.."I got it out without damaging it thankfully.It was photographed by hospital -sergeant W.N. Woodmansee, 96th Regiment. A name to google!"
Haven't checked the name yet.but should be straight forward from here hopefully
-
Found this then in old forum from 2000:
my great grandfather william newton woodmansee was a hospital sergeant in the 96th regiment of foot in the garrison of kieskama hoek in south africa in 1864 married to emma jane where I think my grandfather arthur ernest was born but I cannot find any more info,perhaps somebody out there in the U.S. who has tried to make links with the U.K.can help as you must know the name is derived from the village of woodmansee in the east riding of yorkshire and has recorded links with the earl of essex when a james woodmansee one of his supporters fled to america for his life,
so I beleive somewhere there must be a link to a woodmansee doing research in the U.S. I hope this is so, and would very much like to hear from them,
looking foreward to a reply
best regards, David Woodmansee
So that seem difnitive as regards identify, thanks all for help
-
Thanks for the update Joe, great news.
Carol
-
The Wodmansee detail is very helpful. If you go to Wikipedia and look for '96th Regiment of Foot' this states that they "deployed to the Cape of Good Hope in 1863 and then travelled to India in 1865". This was the period of the 'Second Ashanti War'. So, presumably this dates your photo to that location and time span. Also, Hart's Army List of 1865 provides detail on the officers at that time. If you go to: https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/104600846 this should take you to page 424 - the page for the '96th Regiment of Foot'. Note in the top right it records them being based in the Cape of Good Hope (with their home depot being Belfast). Assuming we have things correct, it is likely your photo is of one of the Colonels/Lieutenant-Colonels or Majors recorded at the top of the page. I am uncertain of the rank because I believe in Victorian times officers ranks were not consistent in the way that a crown and 'pip' today are specifically the insignia of a Lieutenant-Colonel. If you ask on the Armed Forces board what the rank insignia of a crown and 'pip' meant in 1865 that would narrow it to one of the Col/Lt-Col/Maj options so making an identification easier.
-
One last point: if you go to: http://www.victorianstrollers.co.uk/stevesuniforms/ranks.html
this illustrates officers' rank insignia in the period 1856-1867. Assuming it is correct, a crown and 'pip' on the collar could mean either a Captain or a Colonel depending on the amount of braid on the cuff. Talk about confusing ! So, maybe modify my earlier post to narrow the options to a Colonel or a Captain.
-
Thank you for this additional information, I was reading it as if Woodmansee was the subject, but off course he's the photographer, so our man is not yet identified. This additional information and link will hopefully narrow things down considerably. I have passed in this new information and again thank you for your persistence and knowledge of subject
Regards Joe
-
Thanks again to all, especially SiGr for their expertise!
Just to finish things out with the latest information my friend was able to establish that the person in the photo was a Staff Surgeon Hamilton Mitchell from near Londonderry, Ireland, she has Mitchell as a middle name in her family and is from the same area so just has to make that final connection!
Heres some additional information
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/103662511/hamilton-mitchell
Regards
Joe
-
Great news to have the man identified. In case you did not access the 1865 Army List, he is mentioned there - the last person named. For ease of reference, it states, "11 years' full pay service. Assistant Surgeon. - Hamilton Mitchell [8], 21 July 54" (presumably his commissioning or seniority date). The [8] is a footnote which reads, "Assistant Surgeon Mitchell served in the Crimea from 8th Nov. 1854 to 18th Feb. 1855 (Medal with Clasp for Sebastopol, and Turkish Medal". For info, in old Army Lists they used to detail the operational experience and medals awarded. The first medal as you look at the photo is his Crimea Medal (you can tell because it was pale blue with narrow yellow stripes on either side).
-
As a final thought, might I offer the suggestion that you add the photo to his FindAGrave page ? ATB Simon
-
Thanks Simon, I was thinking the same I will mention to my FB friend as the photo belongs to her, its great to be able to put a name to the picture, I have a collection of old family photos most without names from the 1800s, all the relatives who may have known them have long since passed.
Thanks again for all your help
Joe
-
Just to add to your information, here's the death of Hamilton Mitchell in 1894 at Lanowlee, Derry.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1894/05958/4693333.pdf
...and his wife Mary Hannah Mitchell died, as the obituary states, six months before him.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1894/05977/4699249.pdf
The informant was her daughter Bella.
This is likely the location of Lanowlee in Clooney townland (as per the address on Mary's death record).
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/tirkeeran/clondermot/clooney/
KG
-
Thanks Kitaglassan,
When I posted this originally I had no idea who the gentleman was or where he may have lived ..turns out he lived in the same townland as me!
The house where he lived no longer stands from what I can find out, but going by census records was very impressive, I'm not sure exactly where it originally stood but as I live fairly centrely within the townland I would like to think I live with in a stone's throw of where Hamilton once lived..
It's amazing where a photo like this can lead, in my case back to my own neighborhood!
Joe
-
Hello Joe
I'm researching MITCHELL families from County Londonderry & Tyrone, especially the Glendermott Valley and including the townlands of Killymallaght, Cullion, Castlemellon, Tirkeeveny, Craigtown, Drumcorran and Cloghore-Greerstown.
Thanks for finding the photo of Hamilton Mitchell, the Brigade Surgeon -- also for the stuff that you and "the team" have posted on him. I appreciate also the medal ribbon detective work!
If I can help anyone with further information, please do contact me.
Any chance of chatting to the lady who found the photograph? With her Mitchell connection?
Warm regards
Dave Mitchell
Cape Town
South Africa
-
PS. There is a reason why Sergeant William Newton Woodmansee popped up as a hospital sergeant in Kieskamahoek in South Africa, in the 96th Regiment. The regiment spent some time training and acclimatising in South Africa's Eastern Cape region, en route to India.
This illustrates how sometimes genealogical information can be found in amongst South African records, or through the South African Archives online search catalogue (NAAIRS), even for folks who never "settled" in South Africa, or were only passing through. (And especially if a family member passed away as the family - or their regiment - passed through!)
Dave Mitchell
Cape Town
South Africa
-
Hi Joe
Are you connected or have any links to the McCorkell family who were at Primity, Newbuildings? Includes Major D R A McCorkell who was Police Superintendent in Burma.
Best
Dave
-
I am not related to that particular McCorkell family although I spent most of my childhood living not far from the farm and know members of the family, I did some research on them a few years ago to see if I could make a connection to my own branch but couldn't see a connection. I think that particular branch have been living in the general area of Glendermott going back to the mid 1600s.
On the lady who had the post on FB I'll see if I can contact her and put her in touch. PM me for my email, by the way have you searched Glendermott old graveyard for records for the Mitchells there are some very old graves there going back at least to the Siege of Derry!
Joe