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General => The Stay Safe Board => Topic started by: Finley 1 on Monday 29 June 20 22:20 BST (UK)

Title: leicester shut down
Post by: Finley 1 on Monday 29 June 20 22:20 BST (UK)
and I dont mean Holiday time

a.n.other fortnight or so.. due to ignorance and ...***********

Lockdown -- so things that meant we were getting back to normall or near enough.. are now closing again..

One fella in the shop today  had a trolley full of guess what.............. 

its insanity

xin
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 29 June 20 23:30 BST (UK)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=832912.18

My forecast at reply 1.  Will not surprise me to hear of other towns affected within the next 2-3 weeks.

Despite the high death toll - people just do not listen and we have seen so many incidences of this on beaches etc. 

My local supermarket takes all precautions possible - trolleys are passed to you having been sanitised and there is a hand sanitiser with a large notice as you enter.  Hand baskets have been withdrawn for health reasons.

A woman in front of me on Friday was wearing a face mask - fair enough.  However - I somehow expect somebody wearing a face mask to be that more hygienically careful but she wasn't wearing disposible gloves and she walked right past the hand sanitiser.  So what was the point of the mask??

 



Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Maiden Stone on Tuesday 30 June 20 01:12 BST (UK)
Purpose of a mask is to prevent a person spraying droplets on other people or surfaces.
Usefulness of wearing gloves is debateable.
I've noticed most people walk past the hand sanitiser. I've had a few hand-sanitiser mishaps. If I'm going directly to a shop, I wash my hands before leaving home and upon returning. Been taking my own sanitiser recently.
 
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: dowdstree on Tuesday 30 June 20 18:54 BST (UK)
I feel really sorry for the people of Leicester but what is the alternative? Only a complete lockdown again for the whole of England.

It would seem from the news that the main problem is the lack of forewarning and lack of proper statistics to back this up.

I wonder how they are going to enforce it? Maybe just have to rely on the citizens common sense..... again.

Dorrie

Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Rena on Tuesday 30 June 20 19:16 BST (UK)
One middleaged businessman who was being interviewed said he was very frightened because all the victims were from his community, which are of South Asian origin.  The news report also mentioned children were included in the numbers, although no age group was mentioned;  but as young children are advertised as not being in any danger, I'm surmising that those affected could be hefty teenagers.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 30 June 20 20:05 BST (UK)
I thought Matt Hancock said there was an unusual number of children testing positive.
He also mentioned schools being closed which would indicate younger children.
I think he also reiterated the belief that children usually didn’t get it but that they could spread it. Yet we are being asked to send children to school.
Without proper testing etc, how can it be managed?
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: iluleah on Tuesday 30 June 20 20:25 BST (UK)
As Leicester is a city of high muliculture and looking at the areas identified that seem to be displaying where the most cases have also been identifed

"A report by Public Health England found that other things might also mean you are more likely to get seriously ill from coronavirus.
These include:
    your age – your risk increases as you get older
    being a man
    where in the country you live – the risk is higher in poorer areas
    being from a Black, Asian or minority ethnic background
    being born outside of the UK or Ireland
    living in a care home
    having certain jobs, such as nurse, taxi driver and security guard"

Maybe other cities where there are a high level of those more at risk, need to take notice and follow Leicesters lead and not move too quickly too soon....I was very surprised to read Leicesters children are already back in school and they are now having to be closed again. 

I have not been back to my birth place ( Leicester) for at least 10 yrs but my heart goes out to Leicester lad's and lassy's.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Greensleeves on Tuesday 30 June 20 23:33 BST (UK)
From what I've been reading, the majority of infections in the Leicester outbreak are amongst young people who are at school; and it has been alluded to that the reopening of schools could be the reason for this outbreak.  This is an interesting and worrying development, if the government are going to continue with their plan to fine parents who refuse to send their children back to school at the beginning of September.  Had I still got children of school age, I would be very reluctant to send them to school - particularly if the outbreak in Leicester is proved to be related to the re-opening of schools.  The government need to ensure that outbreaks such as this are identified early (the spike was first reported on 9th June but no suitable action was taken until this week).  I am sure Leicester won't be the only place with these problems.  Worrying times for all of us, take care everyone.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Nick_Ips on Wednesday 01 July 20 00:22 BST (UK)
From what I've been reading, the majority of infections in the Leicester outbreak are amongst young people who are at school; and it has been alluded to that the reopening of schools could be the reason for this outbreak.

I've seen this mentioned elsewhere - it is a bit of a puzzle.

If it is schools increasing the number of pupils (most of them never actually closed) which led to a surge in cases then you'd expect all places where schools started to have more pupils at the same time (i.e. nearly everywhere in England) to likewise be experiencing a surge in cases.

As (so far) it seems to only be Leicester experiencing this phenomenon it leads to three possible conclusions:-
1) The schools in Leicester have done something completely different to the rest of England.
2) There are similar surges happening in towns and cities all over England, but nobody has noticed.
3) It isn't related to children going back to school.

It has been reported that there are some specific suburbs within Leicester which are affected more than others (and these suburbs will be having enhanced restrictions),  That seems to suggest the causation is something happening on a very localised basis, rather than the outcome of a national policy decision.

Hopefully we will find out more before too long.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Caw1 on Wednesday 01 July 20 00:48 BST (UK)
It's very worrying for the people of Leicester and more so if it is children going to school that could be carriers....
I worry as my two grabchimdren 4 & 7 are returning to school on Monday Mon - Thurs for 3 hours a day... they live in Lindon and there is a diverse community in their school too...
I'm sure there will be more cities/ town around the country that may incur similar sanctions but hope they don't faff around as they appear to have done in this instance and lock down sooner to stop transmission of this dreadful virus.
I did hear a few Leicester residents who were business owners being interviewed on the radio and felt sorry that they were just hoping to get back to work and now not going to be able to... but one woman's comments I found a little staggering when she said... ' I don't know why they've picked on us'....

Caroline
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: bitzar on Wednesday 01 July 20 03:23 BST (UK)
Area's of Melbourne back in lockdown as of 2359LT tonight too by Postcode....  Some fool Victorian's not obeying the regs!

bitzar
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 01 July 20 04:27 BST (UK)
One fella in the shop today  had a trolley full of guess what.............. 

Yes, apparently it is happening here again and not just in Melbourne.

This is from 4 days ago and the reason cases have spiked and the military brought in.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-26/coronavirus-melbourne-testing-blitz-underway-in-hotspot-suburbs/12393984

I hope they enjoy their time stuck at home while everyone else in the country is getting back to normal.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: a chesters on Wednesday 01 July 20 06:17 BST (UK)
There was a report that some 900 people in the hotspot areas had REFUSED to be tested. Also that people were being allowed out of the two week quarantine who also refused to be tested. :-X :-X :-X

If they refuse as a group, they could find that the government could go to level 4 lockdown, not level 3 as at present.

AC
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 01 July 20 08:43 BST (UK)
It's very worrying for the people of Leicester and more so if it is children going to school that could be carriers....
I worry as my two grabchimdren 4 & 7 are returning to school on Monday Mon - Thurs for 3 hours a day... they live in Lindon and there is a diverse community in their school too...
I'm sure there will be more cities/ town around the country that may incur similar sanctions but hope they don't faff around as they appear to have done in this instance and lock down sooner to stop transmission of this dreadful virus.
I did hear a few Leicester residents who were business owners being interviewed on the radio and felt sorry that they were just hoping to get back to work and now not going to be able to... but one woman's comments I found a little staggering when she said... ' I don't know why they've picked on us'....

Caroline

I wondered if it was because of testing that the children’s results were positive rather than because they had symptoms. Thus the statement re ‘spreading’.
I also saw one lady who was so upset because her business could not open - maybe the same lady.
There has been a call this morning from local government leaders for better and earlier information. I think It might be because Leicester has been highlighted, the sense of being ‘picked on’ whilst other areas may be similar has arisen.
In one of the last briefings, Mr Hancock mentioned a Yorkshire authority and there were several twitter posts saying this was new information to those areas.
I wish they had kept the briefings, especially with the scientists, even though at times they were exasperating.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: BushInn1746 on Wednesday 01 July 20 09:14 BST (UK)
I'd be reluctant to say Schools re Leicester, not far from here.

We are seeing a rediculous change in attitude now mainly on TV toward social distancing by some.

Also on Midlands TV / Radio Leicester has had marching etc.

I've started wearing a surgical mask in the last two weeks to go food shopping, it seems some now think they are invincible!

This is not over according to Professor Chris Whitty CMO (England) saying recently that we are only half-way through the pandemic.

The UK Government have on order 2.2 Billion pieces of PPE.

We will only get back to near normal when people accept that Covid is still in our / their Communities and give the disease the greatest respect it deserves!

Mark
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: roopat on Wednesday 01 July 20 09:24 BST (UK)
In a channel 4 (I think) news report last night, it was said they had received information about a large number of Leicester textile factories continuing to operate during lockdown against the rules. The reporter spoke to one owner who said 'well we have to make money' then shut the door in her face.


They also mentioned the fact that in certain areas there were many inter-generational households, houses of multiple occupancy and high levels of deprivation.


The Times carried a photo yesterday of about 40 young men in Leicester, some playing an informal game of cricket together in a field while others stood shoulder to shoulder on the sidelines.


I hope the families of the children testing positive are being thoroughly checked out.


I see on the BBC news website today photos of a funeral attended by Sinn Fein members including the deputy First minister of NI, with thousands lining the streets.


And my daughter tells me some of her friends are saying 'it' s all over now isn't it?' & putting pictures on social media of grandparents and great grandparents hugging their babies, children having play dates, no social distancing.


So maybe I've misunderstood  ??? 


Added - don't forget the outspoken Mayor of Leicester who was visiting his lover's house during lockdown.

Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: sonofthom on Wednesday 01 July 20 09:46 BST (UK)
Interesting perspective in the "surge" in cases in Leicester at the following link:-

https://lockdownsceptics.org/

Could this be similar to the "surge" recently reported in Sweden where a rise in testing produced a higher number of positive results while hospital admissions, icu admissions and deaths continued to decline? If so this looks rather like government over reaction which will be to the long term detriment of the people of Leicester.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: candleflame on Wednesday 01 July 20 09:57 BST (UK)
I'm not ignoring the Leicester thing, but can our friends in Australia give suggestions as to why there has been this outbreak in Melbourne? Australia came out of lockdown much earlier than us in the uk? Is it the testing is revealing those who have no symptoms. I'd like to understand better, though realise that none of us understand this ' sneaky germs', as my 3 year old grandson calls it. Thanks.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: BushInn1746 on Wednesday 01 July 20 10:04 BST (UK)
Interesting perspective in the "surge" in cases in Leicester at the following link:-

https://lockdownsceptics.org/

Could this be similar to the "surge" recently reported in Sweden where a rise in testing produced a higher number of positive results while hospital admissions, icu admissions and deaths continued to decline? If so this looks rather like government over reaction which will be to the long term detriment of the people of Leicester.

I'm afraid it is the numbers being admitted to Hospital.

Some hospitals have had ZERO or a few Covid cases for a while.

The hospital here recently had 20 Covid admissions in a day (to add to 30 already there). Our County Public Health Official was grilled on Newsnight recently and it seems some of the Covid admissions are from the neighbouring County of Leicestershire according to news reports.

I have just heard our town is not on a list of 30 places being investigated.

Mark
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Nick_Ips on Wednesday 01 July 20 12:05 BST (UK)
...If so this looks rather like government over reaction which will be to the long term detriment of the people of Leicester.

Given the crucifixion dished out to the Government for not 'locking down' soon enough* the first time round, it is kind of understandable that any hint of a rise in the infection rate and the Government may well over react.

Because for some people even the most absurd over reaction still won't be fast/strict/simple/well planned/[insert alternative complaint] enough.

(*Even though a very large percentage of the most vulnerable were free to enter personal 'lockdown' by their own choosing - and were advised to do so - long before official 'lockdown' started)
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Nick_Ips on Wednesday 01 July 20 12:18 BST (UK)
In one of the last briefings, Mr Hancock mentioned a Yorkshire authority and there were several twitter posts saying this was new information to those areas.

If it is the same story then all that happened is Hancock made a mistake and said "Keighley" when he meant to say "Kirklees".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-53235015

I wish they had kept the briefings, especially with the scientists, even though at times they were exasperating.

I don't find it the least bit surprising they stopped holding live briefings - not least when the slightest slip of the tongue sets of a tw*tter/media storm as it has with "Keighley-gate".
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 01 July 20 12:23 BST (UK)
He did say Kirklees when I heard him and hopefully it was just an error (Keighley) as you say and he really was and is always aware of developments in the country.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: louisa maud on Wednesday 01 July 20 13:16 BST (UK)
I have seen pictures in the news this morning  of people supposedly partying in Leicester, how silly, I am sure if they had been sensible over just a few more weeks things might not be as they are in that area

Today I went shopping in a supermarket, I was tbe only one with a mask , what does that say?

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Nick_Ips on Wednesday 01 July 20 13:43 BST (UK)
He did say Kirklees when I heard him and hopefully it was just an error (Keighley) as you say and he really was and is always aware of developments in the country.

He has a whole department of civil servants working on the issue, so hopefully he will have the information he needs to know, when he needs to know it.

The main point is the human brain has an amazing ability to make us say or write something incorrectly when we know absolutely what it was we intended to say.  For some people that ability exists throughout life.  For others it develops as we get older.  I'd be willing to bet there would be no members of this forum who could honestly say they have never said the name of [one thing] when they really meant [another thing].

The problem for politicians is whereas we mortals normally only have friends or family asking "did you really mean [thing]?", the politicians have an army of journalists and social media 'experts' waiting to pounce on the slightest error as proof that the politician is a bumbling fool.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 01 July 20 13:45 BST (UK)
Thank you for your explanation.

Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 01 July 20 14:37 BST (UK)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/01/data-reveals-coronavirus-hotspots-in-bradford-barnsley-and-rochdale

With maps and charts

and

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/895356/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_w26.pdf
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: zetlander on Wednesday 01 July 20 16:29 BST (UK)
In one of the last briefings, Mr Hancock mentioned a Yorkshire authority and there were several twitter posts saying this was new information to those areas.

If it is the same story then all that happened is Hancock made a mistake and said "Keighley" when he meant to say "Kirklees".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-53235015

I wish they had kept the briefings, especially with the scientists, even though at times they were exasperating.

I don't find it the least bit surprising they stopped holding live briefings - not least when the slightest slip of the tongue sets of a tw*tter/media storm as it has with "Keighley-gate".

similar happened when Burnley was mixed up with Barnsley - commentator mentioned that Barnsley had a large ethnic population - it doesn't but Burnley does. 
Makes you wonder just how many other errors are announced and because we don't have local knowledge we don't realise they're inaccurate!
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 01 July 20 16:35 BST (UK)


similar happened when Burnley was mixed up with Barnsley - commentator mentioned that Barnsley had a large ethnic population - it doesn't but Burnley does. 
Makes you wonder just how many other errors are announced and because we don't have local knowledge we don't realise they're inaccurate!

Why not read the previous links
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: zetlander on Wednesday 01 July 20 16:49 BST (UK)


similar happened when Burnley was mixed up with Barnsley - commentator mentioned that Barnsley had a large ethnic population - it doesn't but Burnley does. 
Makes you wonder just how many other errors are announced and because we don't have local knowledge we don't realise they're inaccurate!

Why not read the previous links

sorry Miss!

tried to open the link but could only access a few lines.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 01 July 20 16:52 BST (UK)

Yes, apparently it is happening here again and not just in Melbourne.

This is from 4 days ago and the reason cases have spiked and the military brought in.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-26/coronavirus-melbourne-testing-blitz-underway-in-hotspot-suburbs/12393984


No wonder it's still active with those attitudes.
There was a link to a related article written in late May on mask-wearing. It also mentioned gloves. Conclusion regarding gloves - unnecessary for members of the public and can be counter-productive, leading to a false sense of security and less frequent hand-washing. Also, as they are single-use, wearing gloves creates an increase in waste. (It may also affect supply & price of gloves to people who really need them.)
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 01 July 20 17:40 BST (UK)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/895356/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_w26.pdf

This is Weekly Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Surveillance Report Year: 2020; Week: 26; by Public Health England. Report is based on Week 25 (data between 15th June and 21st June) + where available, daily data up to 24th June.
"There was a small increase in the total number of suspected or confirmed acute respiratory infection outbreaks in Week 25, with little change in the number of outbreaks in care homes, hospitals or 'other settings' but an increase in the number of suspected or confirmed school outbreaks. School outbreaks have increased over the past 2 weeks from 15 in Week 23 to 24 in Week 24 to 44 in Week 25." Explains that this coincides with wider school re-opening since Week 23 but also with expansion of testing and contact tracing.
Followed by pages of charts.
Thanks for the link, Gadget.

Leader of Barnsley LA interviewed on "PM" now. Thinks outbreaks in his area are in factories.



Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 01 July 20 17:52 BST (UK)


similar happened when Burnley was mixed up with Barnsley - commentator mentioned that Barnsley had a large ethnic population - it doesn't but Burnley does. 
Makes you wonder just how many other errors are announced and because we don't have local knowledge we don't realise they're inaccurate!

Why not read the previous links

sorry Miss!

tried to open the link but could only access a few lines.

Barnsley 2011 ethnicity data: 97.9% white ethnic background.
"The Guardian"  allows 3 free online articles. You may have exceeded your allowance.
The other link is to Public Health England report on UK Government website so should be accessible.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Nick_Ips on Wednesday 01 July 20 18:06 BST (UK)
Leader of Barnsley LA interviewed on "PM" now. Thinks outbreaks in his area are in factories.

In relation to the Leicester situation there was an interesting BBC News article earlier:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53235709

The conclusion seems to be that there are multiple factors involved, but demographics and workplace transmission are toward the top of the list.  No specific mention of schools being a transmission source.


In other news, concerns over misleading claims being circulated on social media:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53248531
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 01 July 20 18:07 BST (UK)
I think this might be readable. I followed a trail leading from the Guardian, via Twitter and got to this:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2020-05-19.48980.h&p=24949

It may explain why local authorities didn't get the local information:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2020-05-19.48980.h&p=24949

Quote
Nadine Dorries Minister of State (Department of Health and Social Care)
Holding answer received on 02 June 2020

As an existing professional services provider to the public sector, Deloitte’s expertise is being used to supplement in-house resource to deliver significant programmes of work, which currently includes the national response to COVID-19. The contract with Deloitte does not require the company to report positive cases to Public Health England and local authorities.

Deloitte had a contract  for Covid testing.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: youngtug on Wednesday 01 July 20 18:09 BST (UK)
https://twitter.com/richdavisphd/status/1276629360212979712/photo/1
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: BushInn1746 on Wednesday 01 July 20 18:21 BST (UK)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/01/data-reveals-coronavirus-hotspots-in-bradford-barnsley-and-rochdale

With maps and charts

and

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/895356/Weekly_COVID19_Surveillance_Report_w26.pdf

Page 21 "Figure 30: Ethnic group of confirmed COVID-19 (Pillar 1 and 2) deaths, England
(n= 38,150)
"

In the 2nd link about 7/8ths (Seven Eighths) of the deaths (pie chart) look to be White in that week?

Also I never realised that attacks of Asthma increase during thunder storms anyway.

"There was an increase in GP out-of-hours contacts for difficulty breathing/wheeze/asthma last week, which is likely linked with thunderstorm activity and associated ‘thunderstorm asthma’. "

Humid weather yes, but never realised it was brought on by Thunder Storms.

Mark
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Rena on Wednesday 01 July 20 18:48 BST (UK)
From what I've been reading, the majority of infections in the Leicester outbreak are amongst young people who are at school; and it has been alluded to that the reopening of schools could be the reason for this outbreak.

I've seen this mentioned elsewhere - it is a bit of a puzzle.

What puzzles me is hearing the percentage of residents in Leicester is aover 50% I've heard 52% and 57% from two different newsreels).  How do these people know there is accommodation and job vacancies if they don't speak English?
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 01 July 20 19:15 BST (UK)

In other news, concerns over misleading claims being circulated on social media:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53248531

The last paragraph is worth remembering. "Misinformation is frequently shared as a way of informing bias or as a way of criticising political opponents. Always check the source and think about the motive for sharing claims."
Full Fact website is another useful way to check claims.  https://fullfact.org
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 01 July 20 21:15 BST (UK)
zetlander - here's another link to info that was in the Guardian article that you couldn't get to see:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-bradford-and-london-boroughs-among-36-at-risk-areas-that-could-be-just-days-away-from-local-lockdowns-12018594

The table gives  the rates for all the local authorities if you step through using the arrow bottom right of the table
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: BushInn1746 on Wednesday 01 July 20 21:24 BST (UK)
On Channel 4 News tonight they claim to have a copy of the Report and say 944 are Positive and claim many cases are in a District (named) of Leicester.

C4 claim the Report says there is no indication yet as to why.

Mark
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Roobarb on Wednesday 01 July 20 23:36 BST (UK)

Also I never realised that attacks of Asthma increase during thunder storms anyway.

"There was an increase in GP out-of-hours contacts for difficulty breathing/wheeze/asthma last week, which is likely linked with thunderstorm activity and associated ‘thunderstorm asthma’. "

Humid weather yes, but never realised it was brought on by Thunder Storms.

Mark

Neither did I and I'm asthmatic.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Thursday 02 July 20 09:12 BST (UK)
From what I've been reading, the majority of infections in the Leicester outbreak are amongst young people who are at school; and it has been alluded to that the reopening of schools could be the reason for this outbreak.

I've seen this mentioned elsewhere - it is a bit of a puzzle.

What puzzles me is hearing the percentage of residents in Leicester is aover 50% I've heard 52% and 57% from two different newsreels).  How do these people know there is accommodation and job vacancies if they don't speak English?

What makes you think that Leicester residents don't speak English?
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 02 July 20 09:17 BST (UK)
I gather from early morning radio that PHE/NHS are now going to release the test data down to street level*. This is the info that the LAs have been asking for for weeks. If Leicester had had data at this level before, they might have been able to deal with the outbreak earlier.

Deloitte have now been instructed to issue all of the data to LAs.

*ie full post code level
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 02 July 20 10:05 BST (UK)
I don't usually read the Daily Mail. However, I gathered that they had a scoop:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8481617/PMs-father-Stanley-Johnson-79-jets-Greek-mountain-villa.html

(sorry - a bit off topic but didn't want to start another thread just for this)
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: candleflame on Thursday 02 July 20 11:05 BST (UK)
I gather from early morning radio that PHE/NHS are now going to release the test data down to street level*. This is the info that the LAs have been asking for for weeks. If Leicester had had data at this level before, they might have been able to deal with the outbreak earlier.

Deloitte have now been instructed to issue all of the data to LAs.

*ie full post code level

They did a piece yesterday on the BBC and whoever was speaking said that data sharing agreements were currently being signed. So why was data sharing not part of the original contract?? Surely that's the point of doing the testing so that everyone knows what's what??
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Nick_Ips on Thursday 02 July 20 11:31 BST (UK)
They did a piece yesterday on the BBC and whoever was speaking said that data sharing agreements were currently being signed. So why was data sharing not part of the original contract?? Surely that's the point of doing the testing so that everyone knows what's what??

My understanding from the various media reports (never the full story) is that there had to be agreements made between PHE and each local authority to permit PHE to authorise the release of data to the local authorities.

It isn't an issue relating to the original contract with Deloitte, but instead cutting through the red tape which prevents one government entity sharing personal data with another government entity.

Individual health-related test information is about as sensitive as it gets when it comes to data.

Imagine the outcry (probably originating from the BBC and Guardian) if PHE had illegally instructed their private contractor to release people's personal data without any safeguards in place.
 ::)

This article by Dame Fiona Caldicott helpfully sets the scene:-
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/data-sharing-during-this-public-health-emergency
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 02 July 20 11:51 BST (UK)
Nick - see my quote from Nadine Dorris's answer to a parliamentary question about the isssue. This is  from .gov site:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=833633.msg6985418#msg6985418
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Nick_Ips on Thursday 02 July 20 12:30 BST (UK)
Nick - see my quote from Nadine Dorris's answer to a parliamentary question about the isssue. This is  from .gov site:

The question whether the contract requires Deloitte to pass on the data isn't the same as whether or not they are allowed to pass on the data.

The creation of data-sharing agreements between PHE and the LA's suggests the primary issue is ensuring the sharing of data at sub-LTLA level is lawful.

Otherwise the governmental contracting party could simply instruct Deloitte to hand the data over (subject to paying the additional costs, if any).
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Rena on Thursday 02 July 20 20:12 BST (UK)
From what I've been reading, the majority of infections in the Leicester outbreak are amongst young people who are at school; and it has been alluded to that the reopening of schools could be the reason for this outbreak.

I've seen this mentioned elsewhere - it is a bit of a puzzle.

What puzzles me is hearing the percentage of residents in Leicester is aover 50% I've heard 52% and 57% from two different newsreels).  How do these people know there is accommodation and job vacancies if they don't speak English?

What makes you think that Leicester residents don't speak English?

I didn't need to use my brain at all. The reporter and then an Asian heritage community member mentioned the lack of understanding the English language. If Id' been interviewing any of the residents and they made that remark, I'd be asking particulars such as ages/gender/whether new asylum arrivals/etc
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Nick_Ips on Friday 03 July 20 12:20 BST (UK)
Nick - see my quote from Nadine Dorris's answer to a parliamentary question about the isssue. This is  from .gov site:

A bit more clarity on the postcode data / red tape issue:-

Quote
25 June

The government says on 22 June it offered local authorities exactly what Leicester was asking for - postcode data. First though, the councils had to sign a data security agreement.

Some did this quickly and started getting the information on 24 June. Leicester - the most affected authority - did not get it until the following day.

Government sources indicate that Leicester was slower than other areas.

Leicester mayor, Sir Peter Soulsby explains that "there may well have been some bureaucratic hoops for us to jump through before they released the data, but we had been asking for it for weeks by then".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53264580

It looks like the so-called "bureaucratic hoops" were a factor in getting the data released.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Greensleeves on Friday 03 July 20 22:21 BST (UK)
For 'bureaucratic hoops' read 'government incompetence'.  I see that now the system has been changed so that both the first AND second pillars will be made available to local authorities, rather than just the former.
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Nick_Ips on Saturday 04 July 20 01:10 BST (UK)
For 'bureaucratic hoops' read 'government incompetence'.

No Greensleeves, for 'bureaucratic hoops' read "Legislation to govern the processing of data and the protection of privacy, implementing the General Data Protection Regulation (commonly known as GDPR) and otherwise known as  Regulation (EU) 2016/679"

And yes, the "EU" bit does mean it is a Regulation made by the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union.


TL;DR - The EU made a law to protect personal data and privacy and the resulting "bureaucratic hoops" have to be jumped through.  ;)

You'd think the Mayor of Leicester would be familiar with GDPR and its origins, rather than dismissing it as 'bureaucratic hoops'.  ::)
Title: Re: leicester shut down
Post by: Rena on Saturday 04 July 20 17:16 BST (UK)
For 'bureaucratic hoops' read 'government incompetence'.

No Greensleeves, for 'bureaucratic hoops' read "Legislation to govern the processing of data and the protection of privacy, implementing the General Data Protection Regulation (commonly known as GDPR) and otherwise known as  Regulation (EU) 2016/679"

And yes, the "EU" bit does mean it is a Regulation made by the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union.


TL;DR - The EU made a law to protect personal data and privacy and the resulting "bureaucratic hoops" have to be jumped through.  ;)

You'd think the Mayor of Leicester would be familiar with GDPR and its origins, rather than dismissing it as 'bureaucratic hoops'.  ::)

The UK did have its own Data Protection Act of 1988, was developed to control how personal or customer information is used by organisations or government bodies. which people will note was during the "!Common Market" era prior to PM Major signing the Maastricht Treaty that established the European Union.

I was a widow running a company when a government copy of the 1999 Data Protection Act dropped through the letter box.  What worried me at first reading through it was that I planned to sell up but this Act stated I couldn't give out, or sell, any data I had listed,  unless requested by the Police Force.  Thank goodness I still had the Roladex wsith all the information on the cards :-)   Please don't all write in to tell me otherwise - as I did what teachers instructed pupils to do - I re-read the documents again :-)

Apparently the loopholes have been fixed and regulations are stricter now:- Data Protection Act 1998. ... It was superseded by the Data Protection Act 2018 (DPA 2018) on 23 May 2018. The DPA 2018 supplements the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), which came into effect on 25 May 2018. The GDPR regulates the collection, storage, and use of personal data significantly more strictly.