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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: Newfloridian on Friday 03 July 20 09:59 BST (UK)
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I have currently unpicking the complexity of Victorian South Normanton - particularly the Ball family. This started out with the seemingly simple question: "My grandparents were both called Ball before they were married. Were they related?"
One limb of that led to a John William Darrington who was born in the Basford Union Workhouse in 1871. When looking at his wife's mother, her name was Eliza Severn, born in Somercoates. However her father, John Severn (married who Harriet Chambers who came from Kimberley) was born in Greasley about 1825. Now I also found a second John Severn (who married Mary Winterbottom) who was born in Greasley in 1824. One of their grandsons - Joseph married Elsie Naylor (definitely in my family) in 1910.
The question is were these two John Severns related. Given that Greasley is not a huge metropolis, I would expect them to be at least cousins and possibly first cousins. Is there any local data to back this up?
Many thanks
Alan
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However her father, John Severn (married who Harriet Chambers who came from Kimberley) was born in Greasley about 1825.
The marriage should give the name of his father to start with.
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Are Greasley Parish Registers available online? FindMyPast has indexes which don't list parent names
(They only list the John Severn with Mary Winterbottom anyway)
Alan
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Information about Parish registers from an internet search:
http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/greasleychurch/greasley4.htm
A bit old:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=444534.0
etc
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Unfortunately no John Severn with these possible birth dates appears on the NOtts FHS CD in Greasley. The only one +/- 5 years had father Thomas, a coal miner and mother Abigail, abode Kimberley, bapt 4 oct 1829.
Another John Severn was bapt in Awsworth in 1823 - that's not far from Greasley - his parents were Joseph and Fanny. This may be the same Joseph and Frances who baptised a daughter in Greasley in 1826, when they were living at Kimberley.
Three more children caled John Severn appear on the disc between 1819-1829; in Basford, Strelley, and Hucknall Torkard. I can give those details if you want them.
There were three other Severn couples who baptised children in Greasley in the same time scale -- so in total, the Severn couples using the church to baptise children between 1819-1829 were Thomas and Abigail (as above,, the only one to call a child John); Joseph and Fanny/Frances; William and Mary; Robert and Hannah; and Charles and Fanny.
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Hi Annie65155
Many thanks for the information.
You said:
There were three other Severn couples who baptised children in Greasley in the same time scale -- so in total, the Severn couples using the church to baptise children between 1819-1829 were Thomas and Abigail (as above,, the only one to call a child John); Joseph and Fanny/Frances; William and Mary; Robert and Hannah; and Charles and Fanny.
I guess for my own needs, is it possible to go back one of two generations to determine whether Thomas, Joseph, Wiliam, Robert and/or Charles in any combination were brothers? I'm just trying to determine whether the two Johns in my heading were closely related for future developments in their family lines.
Kind regards
Alan
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I've got to go out now, but will have a look later, unless someone else beats me to it!
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Oh boy. This would take far more than a couple of hours to disentangle.
An early win --- In Greasley, Charles (1785) and Robert (1790) were both sons of Joseph and Lydia.
Oh good I thought,Lydia isn't that common a name - should be fairly easy to track others - WRONG!
Can you believe that 4 different men called Severn/s married a Lydia between 1773 - 1805? Three of those marriages were in Greasley! But Joseph and Lydia (parents to Charles and Robert) married in Eastwood.
Looking just at Greasley baptisms for the other 3 Severn men I mentioned earlier, I found:
4 Williams to 4 different couples between 1785 - 1797, and 2 more at Hucknall, just 3-4 miles away
2 possibles for Thomas in Greasley, and another 2 in Nottingham
7 different Josephs in Greasley and 1 more in Hucknall between 1774 - 1803!
Re marriages -
Thomas Severn + Abigail Soar at Strelley, 1825
Joseph and Frances Reeve at Nuthall 1821
William + Mary Lievers at Greasley 1818
Charles and Fanny Padley 1802 Greasley
Robert and Hannah Guyler Greasley 1818
I suspect that there are baptisms missing as some of the above couples seem to have had very few children, or very long gaps between children.
Deaths of some of the above named:
Robert -- possibly at Kimberley in 1853, age 63 (there's another death in 1852 in Nott Infirmary with age illegible)
Thomas - likely either 1857 in Bilborough age 56 (buried in Strelley) or 1888, age 81, again in Strelley
Joseph - probably 1837 at Newthorpe, age 37
I can't find any obvious burials anywhere in the county for Charles or William.
In fact, there are nowhere near enough burial of Severn/s people to account for all these families ----
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What I would say is that recurring places for the above mentioned seem to be Greasley, Strelley, Kimberley, Newthorpe and Hucknall Torkard, but of course there are lots of other places featured too - it's just that those seem to be the most represented (although Joseph and Lydia were based at Eastwood and can be followed through to their deaths there).
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Hi
Thanks so much for trying. Seems it's just the same that side of the border as it is in Derbyshire!
Sending you a PM
Alan
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Wonder if the PM was sent to me in error??
« Sent to: larkspur on: Sunday 05 July 20 09:09 BST (UK) »ReplyQuoteDelete
Just heard from another source that the John married to Harriet Chambers was the son of Joseph Severn and Frances Reeve. Not sure whether that would clarify the relationship of this Joseph to the father of the John Severn who married Mary Winterbottom.
Cheers Alan
Leic
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Newfloridian
RootsChat Veteran
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« Sent to: larkspur on: Friday 03 July 20 09:48 BST (UK) »
Hi
You may remember we communicated a few years back (about the Chambers family if memory serves me right). I have currently involved myself in unpicking the vortex of South Normanton - particularly the Ball family. This started out with the seemingly simple question: "My grandparents were both called Ball before they were married. Were they related?"
One limb of that led to a John William Darrington who was born in the Basford Union Workhouse in 1871. When looking at his wife's mother, her name was Eliza Severn, born in Somercoates. However her father, John Severn (married Harriet Chambers who came from Kimberley) was born in Greasley about 1825. Now I also found a John Severn (who married Mary Winterbottom) was born in Greasley in 1824. One of their grandsons - Joseph married Elsie Naylor (definitely in my family) in 1910.
The question is were the two John Severns related. Given that Greasley is not a huge metropolis, I would expect them to be at least cousins and possibly first cousins.
I'm aiming to put this question to the Nottm Rootschat forum but I did see your post from February 2019 about Mary Severn which mentioned earlier John Severns.
If of interest, the following is a link to the first rough draft of the current project. It is incomplete (probably another four weeks work) but hopefully it conjures up with morass which was South Normanton!
I trust the current lockdown, isolation and deprivation has not been too irksome for you. At least it has given me much free time to fill with musings of this nature.
Kind regards - Alan