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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: Philldw on Saturday 04 July 20 08:33 BST (UK)
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I am seeking information on Peter Johnston or Johnstone b 1868 in Scotland.
Parents Peter Johnston(e) and Elsie (?) Davidson
He married Jane Cruickshank b 1874 d 1914 Aberdeen on 7th Nov 1902 as a widower.
Thank you for your kind assistance. David
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Which censuses have you found him in?
Occupation from marriage certificate?
Children?
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On the marriage cert he was a 'Farm Servant'
I have found a Peter Johnston on the 1891 census (but not on 1901 or 1911 census) showing him being married to a 'Mary' aged 24 with children Peter 3 and William 1 at Lumphanan (Aberdeenshire)
Have not found, so far, a death of 'Mary Johnston' between 1891 to 1901 to make him a 'widower'
Or a marriage to '[Mary'
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This looks like the family on the 1901 census address KinKell Keithall Aberdeenshire
Peter Johnstone age 31 born Old Deer about 1870 occupation Farm Servant horseman
Mary Johnstone age 37 born Monymusk Aberdeenshire
Peter Johnstone age transcribed as 18 on Ancestry born Kemney
William Johnstone age 11 born Ellon
George Johnstone age 9 born 20/10/1891 Lumphanan Aberdeenshire ( mother Mary Adam )
James Johnstone age 7 born Lumphanan
Samy Johnstone age 5 born Lumphanan
There is a marriage for a Peter Johnstone 1887 Kemnay Aberdeenshire to a Mary Adam on Scotlands People
Rosie
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Death on Scotlands People
Mary Adam other name Johnston
1901 Keithall Aberdeenshire age 35 years
Rosie
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Thank Rosie & team! Why cant I find these things when I look & you guys can? My wife says its me age!
Thanks again.David
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Your welcome glad it was the right family ;)
Rosie
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There's a family in Monymusk in the 1911 index on SP, which might be Peter Johnstone and Jane Cruickshank. None of Peter's older children with Mary Adam seem to be there though:
Peter, aged 40
Jane, aged 36
Flora, aged 8
John, aged 6
Robert, aged 4
Annabella, aged 2
Charlie, aged 0
Ruth
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There's a family in Monymusk in the 1911 index on SP, which might be Peter Johnstone and Jane Cruickshank. None of Peter's older children with Mary Adam seem to be there though:
Peter, aged 40
Jane, aged 36
Flora, aged 8
John, aged 6
Robert, aged 4
Annabella, aged 2
Charlie, aged 0
Ruth
I would think this family are a possibility
Rosie
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Did anyone find a death record of Peter Johnston? I have tried & failed on S.P. David
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No I have not either, but I came across the death of his wife, Jane Johnston in 1914, age 40, registered in Kildrummy. I have seen that she is named on her parents headstone along with her siblings. Could she be interred somewhere else with her husband?
flst
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Rosie, I have paid for the image on S.P & printed down the marriage between Peter Johnstone and Mary Adam 1887 Kemnay...the writing is awful but it shows Peters parents as William (?) Johnstone
definitely not Peter as per the Jane Cruickshank marriage & mother Elizabeth Reid(?) not Elsie
Davidson.It needs (better than mine,even with magnification) sharper eyes to clarify.
I cannot scan & attach due to copyright? Any ideas? David
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Theres more. I can just decipher under the mothers name ' married to John Blackhall Farmer'
Also something written under the word 'Batchelor'...which I cannot read..going to contact S.P to see if
they can help...Thanks for your help! david
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David, I have just seen this marriage certificate on ancestry. Luckily I can manage to read it. The word under batchelor is illigitimate. It does say his mother is married to John Blackhall, farmer. Her surname is actually Third. This is what I thought it would be, as Peter can be found in the 1871 census under the name of Peter Third. His birth is also registered under that name. I have already bought a copy of that certificate as I was researching the Thirds at one point. His mother was Eliza Third. Hope this helps,
flst
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Thank you very much! So, the Kenmay marriage is not of the Peter Johnston to his first wife I am looking for.
Back to the drawing board! David
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Birth for Peter Third
5 September 1868
Old Deer Aberdeenshire
Mother Elspet Third
I don't think his mother was married ..I might be wrong
Peter is with his Grandmother on the 1871 Census Ann Third
Elspet can be found on other census record occupation dairy maid
There is a death for a Elspet Third 1917 Peterhead age 69 years old which would give her birth year as 1848 ..She is not recorded under any other name
Birth for Elspet Third 14/1/1848 Old Deer
Father Peter Third
Mother Anne McGregor
Might be worth getting the death to see what it says
Rosie
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Might be better to get the birth record for their son Peter Johnstone 1888 Kemney that will give you the date of the parents marriage
Rosie
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I have gone back to the marriage cert for Peter Johnston to Jane Cruickshank.
Under the mothers name are some initials and the word 'Third' ! Yes, it looks like Peter Third & Peter Johnston are one & the same. A copy of his birth record confirms his illigitimatcy.
Was his father Peter Johnston or William Johnston..who knows! So, the marriage in Kenmay to Mary Adam is the correct one. Thanks everyone for your time & patience on this posting. David
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Rosie, I do have a copy of Peter Third's birth certificate & it does state his mother is Eliza Third. Like you I cannot find any evidence of Eliza marrying.I had a look at the John Blackhall marriages but could not see any connection.
David, where did the name Davidson come from? Who were the witnesses in the 1902 marriage?
flst
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Looking at the image of the 1902 marriage this morning the father's name is 'Peter Johnston', underneath, 'Farm Servant' below that (Deceased) then what looks ' Elsie Davidson' (I have tried magnification but cannot make it any clearer) . The letter 'D' looks similiar to the 'D' on deceased.
Under her name is some initials and the word 'Third'.
The witness were the Minister and for Jane there was a 'Cruickshank (cant make out first name)
and a 'John' (cant make out surname)...wish there was a way to get a copy to you for you to see.
Thank You David
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There is a tree on Ancestry with a copy of both marriage's on the marriage to Jane Cruickshank the witness is a John Moir or Mair ..Can't make out the first name of the Cruickshank witness
The Mothers name is listed as Elsie Davidson ...On the birth certificate for Peter what name does it give for the mother is it Elsie or Elspet ?
Rosie
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Rosie, The name on the birth cert is Elspet Third. Illiterate as no signature only 'X'.Occupation Farm Servent. Hope this helps. David
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They also have a copy of the 1911 census Peter Johnstone age 40 farm servant horseman same occupation as the 1901 census .None of his family mentioned on the 1901 census are there just the ones mentioned in reply 7
Rosie
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ruthhelen posted that the older children were missing from the 1911 index if it is the same family in Moneymusk
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Yes that's the same family
Rosie
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ruthhelen posted that the older children were missing from the 1911 index if it is the same family in Moneymusk
Nothing remarkable about that.
The youngest child listed in 1901 was 5, so he would have been 15 by the 1911 census - quite old enough to be working away from home, living in a bothy on his employers' farm with the other unmarried male farm servants.
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David has sent me a copy of the marriage certificate. It's quite clear enough for me to transcribe.
1902, on the seventh day of November at Star House, Parish of Kemnay, after Banns According to the Forms of the Church of Scotland.
(signed) Peter Johnston, 34, Farm Servant (Widower), Kirktown, Kinellar, [parents] Peter Johnston, Farm servant (deceased), Elsie Davidson M S Third.
(signed) Jane Cruickshank, 28, Domestic Servamt (Spinster), Star House, Kemnay, [parents] George Cruickshank, Sett-maker, Mary Cruickshank M S Christie.
(signed) A Hood Smith, Minister of Kemnay
(signed) Barbara R? Cruickshank, witness; John Mair, witness.
[Registered] 1902, November eighth at Kemnay, H Whyte, Registrar.
M S is the standard abbreviation for Maiden Surname.
I haven't found a marriage of Elsie Third to a Mr Davidson, or a death of Elsie Third or Davidson.
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Jane had a sister Barbara Martin Cruickshank 1883- 1940 Husband was John Mair 1879 - 1963
Probably the witness'
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Yes. The only thing I couldn't decipher on the certificate was Barbara's middle initial.
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A puzzle indeed. So we seem to have three documents for Peter Johnstone, with different fathers:
His marriage in 1887 to Mary Adam in Kemnay:
Father: William Johnston, farmer; Mother: Elizabeth Third, married to John Blackhall, farmer
His marriage in 1902 to Jane Cruickshank in Kemnay:
Father: Peter Johnston, farm servant (deceased); Mother Elsie Davidson m.s. Third
His death in Newhills, 1926:
Peter Johnstone, farm servant, (widower of Mary Adam)
Father: John Johnstone, farm servant (deceased); mother: Elsie Third, domestic servant (deceased)
Informant: George Johnstone, son
Interestingly, there's a tree on Ancestry that has Elspet (Elsie) Third's death certificate, 13 May 1917 in Peterhead, aged 69. Parents: Peter Third and Ann McGregor. She's noted as being single - her daughter Christian Kelman was the informant (born Christina Third, 1880 Old Deer; m. William Kelman, 1912, Peterhead).
I'm still struggling to find her in 1891, but in 1901, she's keeping house for one William Wilken in New Deer. She appears to have a number of potential children with her.
William Wilken, joiner, 59, New Pitsligo
Elspet Third, 44, housekeeper, Old Deer (seems to have lost 10 years...)
Jessie Third, 24, servant, Old Deer
Sarrah Third, 22, servant, Savoch
Georgina Third, 16, servant, Old Deer
James Third, 16, servant, Old Deer
John Third, 2, Peterhead
Alexina Third, 2, Peterhead
James Third is definitely her son, as the Ancestry tree has a copy of his birth certificate, but I'm not so sure about the others - the youngest two seem likely to be the children of one of the elder girls.
In the 1881 census, Elspet's parents, Peter Third and Ann McGregor have a whole load of grand-children with them, all with different surnames.
Peter Third, 76, head, Old Deer
Ann Third, 50, wife, Old Deer
Ann Third, 28, daughter, Old Deer
Christian Milne, 10, granddaughter, Old Deer
William Davidson, 8, grandson, Old Deer
Ann Sorrie, 6, granddaughter, Old Deer
Mary Finnie, 4, granddaughter, Old Deer
Jessie McCrae, 4, granddaughter, Old Deer
Wilhelmina Robertson, 4, granddaughter, Old Deer
Sarah Wood, 2, granddaughter, Old Deer
Alexander Third, 7m, grandson, Old Deer
Christian Corsie, 7m, granddaughter, Old Deer
Sarah Wood is possibly the Sarah Ann Wood Third, born 1878 Savoch, who is Sarrah Third in 1901. Jessie Mcrae in 1881 is possibly Jessie Third, born 1876 Savoch, the Jessie Third aged 24 in 1901. And Christian Corsie must be Christina Kelman (ms Third), the daughter who registered Elsie's death).
Going to take a while to work out if these are all Elsie's children, because her sister Ann seemed to have some illegitimate children too ::) However, the William Davidson, aged 8 who appears in 1881 is interesting - as that is the surname that Peter Johnston gave for Elsie at his 1902 marriage. There is a birth for a William Third in Ellon, 25 Jan 1872, mother: Elsie Third, which must surely be him.
Ruth
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Tree on Ancestry has details of all the illegitimate children of Elspet Third some with certificates
I think we have came to the conclusion that Peter Johnstone did not know who his father was ::)
Rosie
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Tree on Ancestry has details of all the illegitimate children of Elspet Third some with certificates
I think we have came to the conclusion that Peter Johnstone did not know who his father was ::)
He doesn't seem to have been very sure about his supposed stepfather either!
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Just a guessing game ??? He never appeared in any census forms with his mother either same with his other siblings they seem to be with the mother on the 1901 census
Rosie
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I have a copy of William Third's birth certificate. There is a RCE naming his father as Thomas Davidson, farm servant. Elspet (aka Elsie),Third is his mother.
Fortunately, both Thomas & Elspet appear together in the 1871 census, as servants, at Nether Hawkhillock, Old Deer parish.
It was very common for illegitimate children to be known by either their father, stepfather, or mother's surname. Their birth would be registered in their mother's surname unless the father was present at the time. I have many of these in my family tree!
Regarding Peter's death certificate, I am not surprised that the informant did not know his grandfather's christian name.
flst
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Ruth, Elspet is a dairy maid,at Shannas, Old Deer, in the 1881 census.
flst
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Ruth, Elspet is a dairy maid,at Shannas, Old Deer, in the 1881 census.
I have her in 1881 - it's 1891 that I can't find her.
Digging around with her sisters, I may have found a possible for the Johnston connection. Elsie's sister Sarah Third (b. 1852) had a child with one John Johnston, farm servant, Pettymarcus in 1876 - Mary Ann Third or Johnston. If this is, indeed, the John Johnston who also fathered Peter Third or Johnston with Elsie Third, then he would have only been about 15 or 16 at the time of Peter's birth - but if not him, then perhaps the same family.
What a family - I've only looked at three of the Third sisters so far, and already a host of illegitimate children ::)
Ruth
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Ruth, Elspet is a dairy maid,at Shannas, Old Deer, in the 1881 census.
I have her in 1881 - it's 1891 that I can't find her.
There's an Elspeth Third, 'inmate' aged 40, general servant domestic, born Old Deer, in the 1891 census in New Deer (FindMyPast transcription).
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Just read that, Elspet(h)Third, 40, is there along with her children; Sarah, Christina, Richard, James & Georgina. I suspect they are actually in the Buchan Combination Poorhouse in Maud.
flst
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She certainly was a very busy lady ;D and to have so many children no wonder Peter did not know his father ..At least his mother has been found ;)
Rosie
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This is a photo of Jane Cruickshank's sisters taken 1907 by their brother who had a photographers business in Aberdeen. Thought you might be interested. Lily ,far left went to Canada,still work in progress on that. David
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Need to go to go to the right to see all of the photo. david
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Lovely to have photo's of family members to look back on good luck with the rest of your research
Rosie
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Working my way thru the postings this morning. Will see what I can put on my Family Tree on FindMyPast.
Would take this opportunity to state my sincere thanks to all the guys who have had patience and
time with the posting. You are a lifeline to me when I need help. THANK YOU David
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I've made some progress with the Third sisters and their various children.
So starting with Elspet - she had nine children in total that I’ve found so far - all, on the face of it, with different fathers:
Peter Third or Johnstone
b. 5 Sep 1868, Old Deer
d. 27 Apr 1926, Newhills
William Third or Davidson
b. 25 Jan 1872, Ellon
m. Isabella Ross, 17 Jan 1896, Tarves
d. 1949, Aberdeen
His father was named as Thomas Davidson (b. 1849, Peterhead; m. 1876 Mary Elrick Downie; d. 1898, Ardaillie)
Ann Third or Sorrie
b. 3 Feb 1875, Old Deer
m. George Samuel Murdoch, 1897, Banff
d. 12 Jul 1955, Aberdeen
Jessie Third or McCrae
b. 1876 Old Deer
m. Hugh Cairns Buchan, 11 Feb 1927, Peterhead
d. 1930, Peterhead
Sarah Ann Wood Third
b. 1878, Old Deer
d. 1908 New Deer
She had a son, John Third, b. 4 Nov 1898, Peterhead; d. 1964, Aberdeen
Christina Third or Corsie
b. 27 Aug 1880, Old Deer
m. William Kelman, 27 Dec 1911, Peterhead
d. 28 May 1962, Aberdeen
She also had an illegitimate daughter, Alexina Bruce Third, b. 1899, Peterhead; m. John Edwards, 24 Apr 1918, Peterhead; d. 1963, Peterhead.
Ritchie Third or Laurie
b. 16 Oct 1882, Old Deer
d. 1904, Old Deer.
His father was named as William Laurie.
Georgina Third (twin)
b. 16 Mar 1886, Old Deer
m. William Donald, 9 Jun 1906, Old Deer
d. 1913 Ellon
James Matthew Third (twin)
b. 16 Mar 1886, Old Deer
m. Betsy Gordon Duthie, 12 Dec 1910, Peterhead
d. 23 Mar 1918, France
I haven't yet followed all the reputed fathers - a couple were named in RCEs, but the others are either names the children were sometimes known as in census data, or that appeared as middle names.
I'll be back with the other sisters later - so far, I have 7 for Ann and 3 for Sarah before they both got married :o Christian, at the moment, seems the only sister who got married before having any children... ;D
Ruth
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Good grief Ruth you have been busy!! I appreciate your work and never dreamed that a simple (?) posting would lead to such a convulated family history!
Thank you David
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As it happens, I do have an interest in this Third family - through the illegitimate son of the mother Ann McGregor, and the husband of one of the daughters - this has been an opportunity to tie up some loose ends ;D
And I do love a good puzzle ;D
Ruth