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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: IgorStrav on Friday 10 July 20 10:41 BST (UK)
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Hello all
Can anyone help me with some further information/guidance to find details for the above.
What I have:
Caroline Mary Ann Newman, born 8 Dec 1876 Poplar, London.
daughter of Edward Newman (1847-?) and Elizabeth Cox (1856-1884). I have Caroline in the 1881/1891/1901 censuses in London.
In the 1901 the household includes visitor Arthur Carter
aged 25 (so born c 1876) born St James, London, occupation house painter.
In July 1901 Caroline Mary Ann Newman and Arthur Carter marry in Westminster, London. I don't have the certificate or any further details for this apart from the marriage reg.
Arthur Carter MAY be Arthur Godfrey Carter born Mar qtr 1876 in St George Hanover Square Volume 01A Page 402, who appears with his family in the 1891 Census in Pimlico in London (parish St George Hanover Square), with pob shown as Pimlico.
I cannot then find Caroline and Arthur in the 1911. They are not the Arthur George Carter family found in the 1939 Register and 1911.
Caroline Mary Ann had a brother Edward John Newman, born Dec qtr 1879 in Poplar who also appears in the 1901 with Caroline and Arthur and the family.
When researching where these people went, I came across an obituary (actually a funeral notice) in Quebec as follows:
CARTER Caroline. At the Montreal Protestant Hospital on September 8th 1961 in her 85th year, Caroline Mary Ann Newman, wife of the late Edward Arthur Carter, sister of the late Edward Newman (Ted). Funeral service on September 9th at 12 noon from Leather's Funeral Home 1718 St Joseph Blvd, Lachine, Interment Lakeview Cemetery
Going back from that,
I can then see an Edward Carter in the 1911 Canada Census in Quebec (Jacques-Cartier) District 162/Sub district 19 - labourer, boarder.
And then a pair of travel documents from 1920 showing Edward Newman and Caroline Carter, both returning to 27 Twentyeighth Ave, Lachine Canada from the UK after a 'holiday' staying with Aunt Mrs Eastman 47 Prestbury Road East Ham.
However, apart from the death notice for Caroline, which suggests that she and her husband (?) remained in Quebec, and that her brother Edward (Ted) seems also to have done, I can't find any further information or census on them.
I'm a bit confused also by the transformation of Arthur Carter to EDWARD Arthur Carter, but maybe there's an explanation for that.
Can anyone guide me find more details for Caroline and (Edward) Arthur Carter in Canada? Did they have children (not mentioned on funeral notice, though). Did Edward (Ted) Newman marry?
Thank you for reading. Caroline is my 2nd cousin twice removed, and as usual I have got entwined in the research to find out exactly what happened to her.
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No luck with the census as yet . But I have found her on the Voters List for 1935 :
Quebec, Jacques-Cartier , 17ieme ave, 14
Edward Newman , librarian
Mrs Carolina Carter , widow
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Thank you, Christine. That's a step up for Edward who's previously been shown as a labourer.
And Arthur Carter (or Edward Arthur Carter) has evidently died before 1935.
Excellent, inching forward ;D
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Hi,
On Caroline's voyage in 1920 she says she a widow. She had been in Canada 7 years (1912ish).
I am not spotting a death in Quebec for Arthur/Edward.
DB
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As late as 1953, Caroline is still living with her brother Edward in Montreal based on Voters' Lists, so he died between then and when Caroline passed away.
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She makes another trip home and returns to Canada in 1927 bound for her brother in Lachine, Quebec. Previously in Canada from 1912 to 1927.
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Hi,
On Caroline's voyage in 1920 she says she a widow. She had been in Canada 7 years (1912ish).
I am not spotting a death in Quebec for Arthur/Edward.
DB
Thank you, I didn't spot that on the 1920 record, will go back and have a proper look. Apologies.
There is a potential UK death for Edward Newman, which I'd ruled out previously but which may be him, if you're not seeing him in Quebec.
And with regard to Arthur Godfrey Carter, I have a vague recollection I saw something in an Army record for WWi which I ruled out at the time but which might have been him, I will go back and try and find it again.
It may be that Caroline was left in Canada and when she died nobody could really recall in 1961 what her husband's name was back from before 1920.
No children apparently though.
Thank you so much for turning up the records, Christine, dbree and Eileen, it's a great help. ;D ;D ;D
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Quebec death records for that timeframe are not available publicly so I'm sure he died in Montreal in that timeframe. Also, civil records in Quebec only came into being around 1990. Prior to that, the records were kept by the churches. There is an obit for an Edward Newman in 1952 in Lachine (Montreal), but it says he is a widower and doesn't name his sister, so not sure this is the right guy.
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Thank you, Eileen. With a combination of twiddling I've found the voters' lists you've been mentioning to follow Edward and Caroline.
They evidently lived together for many years. Not at all sure what happened to Arthur Carter. If I'm right about the Arthur Godfrey Carter, there are some military entries for such a man, but he says he's unmarried. Separated from Caroline? Or just the wrong man.
I won't worry too much about tying up that loose end, having with your help sorted out my direct connections, Caroline and Edward.
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Just found the marriage details ;D
Arthur Carter 25 bach , painter, 38 St James' Residences, father Thomas Carter ,dec., carpenter
Caroline Mary Ann Neman 23 spinster, 51 St James' Residences , father Edward Newman , dec., plasterer
Sep 29 1901 at St Peter's Church , St James Piccadilly
witnesses : A. Thomas , Deborah Louisa Eastman and Lottie Bowmaster
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Oh thank you, Christine.
I will check whether my hypothetical family for Arthur was the correct one. I'd based it on the place of birth he'd used in the 1901, so just a guess really.
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Well, I knew that the Deborah Louisa Eastman name for one of the witnesses of the Carter/Newman marriage was familiar - and so it was, she was the cousin of Caroline Newman, daughter of Caroline's aunt Jane.
I would love it for Lottie Bowmaster to be Arthur Carter's relative, but she's not popping out so far.
On we go.
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There's an Arthur Carter with father Thomas , a tripe dresser, here :
RG12/85/163 Page 45
Thomas' occupation doesn't match the marriage detail but there are visitors in the house called Baumaster and one of the witnesses in 1901 was Lottie Bowmaster so a possibility , I think.
Edit - changed Edith to Lottie - senior moment .
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Oh thank you again Christine, I was not having any joy at all with Bowmaster or variants.
That's a very good spot. I'd also seen the Tripe Dresser and I did wonder if that was your father's occupation whether you might change it for your marriage certificate to something more 'refined' ;)
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And just to confirm, of course, Marian Carter, Arthur's sister, married George Baumaster, so the witness at Arthur and Caroline's wedding was Lottie, his neice.
All slotting nicely into place.
Now just wondering what happened to Arthur and whether it was a death or a separation. Will search again with the right dob.
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I cannot find Caroline's original journey to Canada but I think I've found her return :
Carelina Carter 41 Domestic arrived Liverpool 20 Nov 1919 on the Scandinavian from Alagoas Brazil ,
country of last permanent residence Canada.
Elsewhere on the list is Edward Newman 40. Both are going to an address in Forest Gate which I cannot read.
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Thank you so much for keeping on looking, Christine.
I'll have a look for the Carelina Carter ref you mention. But don't worry about the Forest Gate address - it'll be 47 Prestbury Road - which is of course their 'holiday' destination to their 'Aunt' (haven't found who she is yet) on several occasions.
Reminds me of my great grandfather who used to spend all his holidays going round to various relatives to visit/stay with them.
I still don't know what happened to Arthur Carter, but have resigned myself to not knowing.
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Just to put this one finally to bed, whilst I've not found Arthur Carter (and am not going to keep on looking for him), on re-reading the thread I have of course found the mysterious Aunt, Mrs Eastman, in England who Caroline Carter and Edward Newman visited on several occasions in East Ham/Forest Gate.
One of the witnesses at the Newman/Carter marriage was Deborah Louisa Eastman, who was Caroline Newman's cousin. So her mother would have been Caroline and brother Edward's aunt, and she was
Jane Newman, married to John Henry Eastman, who will have been a widow at the time of the visits.
It's very satisfying tying up loose ends. ;D thanks for all the help.