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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Apiarist on Wednesday 22 July 20 09:25 BST (UK)

Title: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: Apiarist on Wednesday 22 July 20 09:25 BST (UK)
I have an ancestor, Grace ALLEN, listed in the 1911 Census as a Superintendent Laundress in the Edmonton Union Workhouse and yet a family portrait photo dated about 1911-12 shows her in a nurses uniform. Another group photo includes Grace with 45 other medical staff (23 men, 23 women) in front of a two storied Victorian building - supposedly St Thomas's Hospital.

Grace emigrated to NZ with her husband Lewis GILES on 26 Oct 1912 and the nurses uniform remained in the family's possession for many years.

My question is how likely is it that a 31 year old senior laundress could change occupation to nursing ? Presumably training was on-the-job. Would a student nurse normally be included in a staff photograph in Edwardian times ? Did St Thomas's have less than 50 staff at the time (1911-12) ?  I understand St Thomas's was a training hospital.

Any ideas or suggestions much appreciated.
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: PaulineJ on Wednesday 22 July 20 09:30 BST (UK)
I wouldn't have been surprised to see her in a uniform.
Superintendent laundress is a reasonably responsible job.
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 22 July 20 12:44 BST (UK)
What was her occupation when she married
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: Enumerated on Wednesday 22 July 20 12:54 BST (UK)
Could it be the other way round - that she did her nursing training before she became Superintendent Laundress? 31 is a bit old to start nursing training.

What was she doing in the 1901 census?
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: jonw65 on Wednesday 22 July 20 14:24 BST (UK)
What was she doing in the 1901 census?

She was a laundry maid at the Forest Gate District School
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9N8-M39

Earlier thread on this couple
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=832317.0

Edmonton workhouse, should be a photo or two
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Edmonton/
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 22 July 20 14:44 BST (UK)
Did St Thomas's have less than 50 staff at the time (1911-12) ?  I understand St Thomas's was a training hospital.

Looking at the 1911 census for St Thomas's there were over 200 nurses, let alone medical practitioners and other staff.
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 22 July 20 14:55 BST (UK)
Another group photo includes Grace with 45 other medical staff (23 men, 23 women) in front of a two storied Victorian building - supposedly St Thomas's Hospital.

Was there anything particular about the building which led it to be identified as St Thomas's?
Old image of St T here https://www.antiquemapsandprints.com/london-st-thomass-hospital-1926-old-vintage-print-picture-240485-p.asp
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: Apiarist on Thursday 23 July 20 09:58 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone for your helpful comments.
I have a group photo showing my ancestor Grace ALLEN (too big to attach to this post). On closer examination I think this is a photo taken at Edmonton Workhouse about 1911 when Grace was the Superintendent Laundress (not St Thomas's Hospital). Staff numbers in the photo, presence of children, variation in adult clothing and background building facade all tend to support this.

Either Grace went on to become a nurse at St Thomas's Hospital in the following few months or more likely this was a family myth.

Unfortunately there is no evidence of a marriage to Lewis GILES prior to their emigration to NZ in Oct 1912 (probably due to divorce complications) so there is no marriage record showing Grace's occupation. Couple traveled to NZ as Mr & Mrs Lewis Giles and no-one was any the wiser ! 
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: guest189040 on Thursday 23 July 20 15:07 BST (UK)
All Staff would have worn some sort of uniform.

The other Laundy staff would also have worn a uniform but as Superintendent hers would have been more elaborate to signify her status which probably would have been on a par to a Nursing Sister.

Is there any difference in the shading of the uniforms or in their hats, belts and badges?
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 23 July 20 15:38 BST (UK)
Is it possible to post copies of the photos so that we can see her?  Also indicate which person she is  :)
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: Enumerated on Thursday 23 July 20 19:28 BST (UK)
Apiarist said the photos are too big to post, Gadget. I see that photos have to be under 500 kilobytes.

What photo editing software are you using, Apiarist? There should be some way to reduce the size of the photos.
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 23 July 20 20:04 BST (UK)
If Apiarist has problems, I'll be happy to reduce them in size.

Apiarist - Let me know if you'd like them resized and I'll send you a PM with my e-mail address so that you can send them to me.

Gadget
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: Apiarist on Thursday 23 July 20 21:36 BST (UK)
Hi Gadget
They are just JPG files - the group photo (Edmonton Workhouse?) is 2218 KB and the portrait photo is 565 KB. Happy to send them to you for re-sizing and posting/distribution.
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: Gadget on Friday 24 July 20 10:14 BST (UK)
Hi

I've just received the files and have reduced them.

I'll put them up as comparisons and then the group photo.  The first photo here is a crop from the St Thomas group photo. The other is a portrait.

Unfortunately, I don't think they were scanned from originals so they're not too clear.
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: Gadget on Friday 24 July 20 10:15 BST (UK)
And a small version of the St Thomas's group
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: Gadget on Friday 24 July 20 10:17 BST (UK)
For what it's worth, I don't think the st Thomas's Nurse is the same person as in  the portraits. The forehead is different.
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: Apiarist on Friday 24 July 20 10:26 BST (UK)
Correct - I don't have the originals so can't provide better source docs. Grace ALLEN is the woman in the front left of the group photo (circled) but I suggest this is the Edmonton Workhouse staff.  The same woman is then shown by herself in the portrait photo but wearing a different uniform. Ignore the couple - they are altogether different.
Title: Re: St Thomas's Hospital, Central London
Post by: Gadget on Friday 24 July 20 10:28 BST (UK)
I'll take the couple off and just leave the two close ups. I don't think they are the same.