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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: LAW1221 on Friday 24 July 20 18:20 BST (UK)
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Hi
I'm looking for any information on my gggrandfather, William Verner Gilpin dob abt 1834...Armagh/Portadown (all his children were born in Loughgall District. I believe he died September 4, 1907. His wife, my gggrandmother was, Eiiza Jane Gilpin (dob abt 1838, dod Jan 25, 1912). I was hoping to see if anyone had either in their tree and had any information on their parents and/or siblings.
Thanks!
laura
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William's death record
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05524/4548325.pdf
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William & Eliza's marriage 1856
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1856/09514/5448521.pdf
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Possible death of his brother, Richard (after his father) 1907, Loughgall
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05533/4550778.pdf
Marriage of Richard, (father's name Richard) 1859 to Emily Lake
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1859/09561/5466502.pdf
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Will image of William Verner Gilpin on
https://apps.proni.gov.uk/WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearch.aspx
Probate of the Will of William Verner Gilpin late of Copney Tullyroan Moy County Amagh Farmer who died 4 September 1907 granted at Armagh to James Gilpin Shop Assistant.
KG
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Possible marriage of William's brother, James Andrew Gilpin, (father Richard) 1888 to Sarah Verner
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1888/10783/5932302.pdf
Added
James Andrew death in 1898
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05842/4654808.pdf
Correction....
1901 census for the family
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Killymann/Copney/1015582/
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..........late of Copney Tullyroan Moy County Amagh
Townlands of Copney north-east and Tullyroan east of the village of Moy.
https://www.townlands.ie/armagh/oneilland-west/clonfeacle-tyrone-portion/copney/
https://www.townlands.ie/armagh/oneilland-west/clonfeacle-tyrone-portion/tullyroan/
KG
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William's son, James, birth, 1876
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03060/2121496.pdf
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Eliza Jane Gilpin with her son James and extended family in 1911 Irish census.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Killyman/Copney/323936/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001621095/
KG
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Party 1 Name JAMES GILPIN
Party 2 Name LOUISA STUART
Date of Event 30 October 1901
SR District/Reg Area Dungannon
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10325/5758684.pdf
KG
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Daughter Jane born 8th October 1865 at Copney.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03555/2308896.pdf
She was married? to George Dever (in Pittsburgh, an electric car conductor). Her son George (Verner Gilpin?) was born in 1892 at Copney. The informant was his grandfather William Verner Gilpin (the occupier) at Copney.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02361/1881762.pdf
Verner Gilpin is on both the 1901 and 1911 census at Copney.
Eliza Jane Gilpin passed away on the 25th January 1912 at Copney. The informant was Verner G Dever (her grandson).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05376/4499503.pdf
Verner G Dever married Rebecca Weir in 1913. He gave his father as George Dever, a gas inspector.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1913/09886/5591481.pdf
KG
Edited to add:
Daughter Doreen Winifred Dever born 1917
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01315/1543645.pdf
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This was a tree that may have come from a Canadian Gilpin researcher. I haven't checked to see if the above comments agree with the tree. Some, not all, of the records are at Seagoe and his family was at Balteagh.
Descendants of Dynes Gilpin
1 Dynes Gilpin
.. +Jane?
........ 2 Dynes Gilpin 1766 -
........ 2 Thomas Gilpin 1767 -
........ 2 William Gilpin 1767 -
........ 2 Henry Gilpin 1768 -
........ 2 George Gilpin 1768 -
........ 2 Jane Gilpin 1771 -
........ 2 Richard Gilpin 1773 -
............ +Elizabeth
................... 3 William Verner Gilpin
....................... +Eliza Jane Gilpin
............................. 4 Jane Gilpin 1865 -
............................. 4 Rachel Gilpin 1868 -
............................. 4 Richard Gilpin 1871 -
............................. 4 Elizabeth Gilpin 1873 -
............................. 4 James Gilpin 1876 -
................... 3 Isabel Gilpin 1809 -
................... 3 Margaret Gilpin 1815 -
................... 3 Judith Gilpin 1818 -
................... 3 Richard Gilpin 1822 -
....................... +Deborah Robinson
............................. 4 Richard Gilpin 1850 -
................................. +Mary Elizabeth McConnell
............................. 4 Eliza Jane Gilpin 1851 -
............................. 4 Mathew Gilpin 1853 -
............................. 4 Elizabeth Gilpin 1855 -
................................. +Thomas Emerson
............................. *2nd Husband of Elizabeth Gilpin:
................................. +Youngson Somerville 1834 - 1907
........................................ 5 Elizabeth Somerville 1867 -
............................. 4 John Gilpin 1859 -
............................. 4 Isabella Gilpin 1861 -
............................. 4 Mary Gilpin 1862 -
............................. 4 Richard Gilpin 1864 -
............................. 4 Samuel James Gilpin 1864 -
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Missing a daughter ... Margaret born 1880 is the grandmother to my husband's cousin in Annaghmore. She married William David Murdock in 1907. Their daughter Ruby is his mother. If you've done your DNA, you should be a relatively close match.
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I have William Verner Gilpin's parents as Richard Gilpin & Dinah Thompson.
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Thank you! You guys are the best! Lots of info here to digest.
Laura
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Elizabeth Gilpin born in 1873
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03176/2164683.pdf
She married Henry Murray on the 27th March 1908 in Armagh Methodist church. One of the witnesses was her sister, Maggie Murdock.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1908/10040/5652020.pdf
Children:
John Murray 1909
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01616/1647687.pdf
Thomas William Murray 1912
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01504/1610849.pdf
Henry Murray 1914
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01405/1577619.pdf
In the 1911 census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Tullyroan/Derrymagowan/327851/
KG
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Missing a daughter ... Margaret born 1880 is the grandmother to my husband's cousin in Annaghmore. She married William David Murdock in 1907. Their daughter Ruby is his mother. If you've done your DNA, you should be a relatively close match.
There were actually two Margarets born in 1880 and 1882 respectively. I can't find the death of the first one :-\
Margaret Gilpin 1880
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02876/2053715.pdf
Margaret Gilpin 1882
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1882/02763/2014540.pdf
When Margaret marries William Murdock in 1907, her age is 24 so born 82/83.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1907/10086/5668923.pdf
KG
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Hi
There is also a son of William's, David who married Lilly Miller.
The above family outline has Isabella (my gggrand) as the daughter of Richard. I've been working her as the eldest of William for the following reasons:
1. Her death certificate lists her father as Wm V. Gilpin;
2. Her obit (1915) lists surviving siblings as David from Patterson, NJ and James from Ireland;
3. She was institutionalized in 1905, her intake papers suggest her parents are still alive at that time which Wm and Eliza are and that she has 3 brothers and 4 sisters.
I have not been able to find a marriage license from her marriage to Thomas Wilson to get some collaboration.
However, another concern I have is that Mary Gilpin McClelland, m to Richard McCelland and living in Patterson, NJ raised Isabella's youngest daughter once she was institutionalized. I've always assumed Mary was her sister.
Above she is listed as a daughter of Richard. However, my Mary has a birth date of Feb 14, 1860 per her passport. I am trying to find her marriage cert to hopefully get some confirmation.
Again, thank you all so much! All of this are new leads to investigate!!
Laura
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Just adding David's marriage record. He married on 11th July 1894 at St James parish church, Moy. Father indeed William Verner Gilpin.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10568/5850076.pdf
KG
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Interesting info on Jane Gilpin Dever. I found her marriage to George Dever in PA in 1890. He was born in Ireland per the marriage cert. She is listed as Jennie but I've tied that name back to her on other documents so I'm confident it is her.
She has her baby in Ireland in January, 1892. I found her and the baby returning to PA in August, 1892.
I'm 1900, George is remarried to Teresa and the census indicates they've been married 5 years by 1900.
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Here is a transcription of Seagoe records which may help with pre irishgenealogy births. All transcriptions need to be rechecked with originals as typists misread or mistype entries. However, it may help those who have no access to these records. This will be in 2 or 3 parts
15/4/1822 gilpin maria john & maria bealteagh
15/4/1822 gilpin richard Richard & elizabeth balteagh
15/4/1822 gilpin georege George & Sarah Balteagh
8/8/1822 gilpin john Jane Lewis
15/8/1822 gilpin mary David Murry - moyntaghs
14/4/1823 gilpin maria William & anne Balteagh
16/6/1823 gilpin john John & jane Moyraverty
2/11/1823 gilpin matilda William & sarah Clonrola
10/3/1824 gilpin robert Robert & margaret Balteagh
30/4/1828 gilpin eleanor William & sarah Clonrola
5/10/1826 gilpin charlotte william thompson
17/10/1826 gilpin mary robert wilson
18/10/1826 gilpin elizabeth edward lavery
27/11/1827 gilpin joseph mary dickson
9/3/182822/6/1828 gilpin eliza jane John & jane Moyraverty
22/6/1828 gilpin mary jane Thomas & sarag tamnafiglasson
21/12/1828 gilpin william William & sarah Clonrola
26/3/1829 gilpin margaret john & maria bealteagh
9/4/1828 gilpin robert jane Russell
16/8/1829 gilpin henry henry & elizabeth Balteagh
28/2/1830 gilpin dynes John & jane Moyraverty
5/8/1830 gilpin jane Balteagh aged 49
17/10/1830 gilpin margaret thomas & sally Tamnafiglasson
6/3/1831 gilpin mary anne henry & elizabeth Balteagh
24/3/1831 gilpin isabella william gibson
16/3/1831 gilpin eliza Tamifglassion -17
17/10/1832 gilpin letitia George Armstrong
21/10/1832 gilpin thomas Thomas & jane drumagoon
14/4/1833 gilpin james henry & elizabeth Tamnafiglasson
9/6/1833 gilpin anne George & elizabeth balteagh
27/5/1834 gilpin elizabeth dynes & ann balteagh
30/11/1834 gilpin andrew thomas & sarah Drumagoon
14/4/1835 gilpin george thomas & jane balteagh
10/9/1835 gilpin mary ann john Webb
4/10/1835 gilpin oliver John & jane Moyraverty
21/1/1836 gilpin sarah john macoun
28/2/1836 gilpin william sarah Browne
19/7/1836 gilpin john sarah nichelson
26/7/1836 gilpin william henry William & sarah Balteagh
26/7/1836 gilpin henry dynes & ann balteagh
6/8/1836 gilpin jane john best
7/10/1836 gilpin Robert Tamifglassion- 46
6/12/1836 gilpin rebecca henry & elizabeth Balteagh
7/1/1837 gilpin mary Moyraverty - 14
26/4/183726/6/1837 gilpin dynes mary anne walsh
26/6/1837 gilpin mary Dynes & mary anne tamicarbet
25/7/1837 gilpin sarah Tamifglassion 50
20/8/1837 gilpin henry Tamifglassion 74
22/10/1837 gilpin elizabeth john & sarah balteagh
11/11/1837 gilpin jane thomas uprichard
12/11/1837 gilpin john dynes & Elizabeth balteagh
15/2/1838 gilpin margaret joseph lyness
9/3/1838 gilpin matilda Tamifglassion - 20
22/4/1838 gilpin mary Dynes & mary anne tamicarbet
5/8/1838 gilpin henry mary turkington
9/12/1838 gilpin william henry William & sarah balteagh
28/4/1839 gilpin margaret dynes & Elizabeth balteagh
16/5/1839 gilpin dynes dynes & ann balteagh
22/5/1839 gilpin william anne Jane Cooke
16/6/1839 gilpin mary anne Henry & mary Balteagh
18/8/1839 gilpin william john Dynes & mary anne tamicarbet
15/3/1840 gilpin sarah anne thomas & sarah Drumagoon
30/5/1840 gilpin margaret david Webb clanrole
17/6/1840 gilpin william Tamifglassion - 40
1/7/1840 gilpin thomas henry & elizabeth Balteagh
29/7/1840 gilpin jane john & sarah balteagh
21/11/1840 gilpin sarah Andrew McStea - shankill
4/4/1841 gilpin dynes dynes & Elizabeth balteagh
23/8/1841 gilpin henry George & elizabeth balteagh
23/8/1841 gilpin alice George & elizabeth balteagh
21/12/1841 gilpin william Robert & jane balteagh
26/12/1841 gilpin jane dynes & mary anne balteagh
13/1/1842 gilpin elizabeth balteagh 62
19/1/1842 gilpin james Tamifglassion -20
28/4/1842 gilpin robert willaim & sarah ballymacrandel
27/9/1842 gilpin ruth richard McLernon
12/3/1843 gilpin george dynes & Elizabeth balteagh
23/4/1843 gilpin James Tamifglassion 43
3/5/1843 gilpin elizabeth George & elizabeth balteagh
21/6/1843 gilpin robert William & sarah balteagh
23/7/1843 gilpin alice Dynes & sarah balteagh
26/9/1843 gilpin john Tamifglassion 84
14/10/1843 gilpin jane charles Twinem
15/10/1843 gilpin james frederick Dynes & mary anne tamicarbet
24/3/1844 gilpin elizabeth henry & elizabeth Balteagh
28/7/1844 gilpin margaret john & sarah balteagh
4/8/1844 gilpin sarah George & elizabeth balteagh
29/10/1844 gilpin john dynes balteagh
13/12/1844 gilpin mary annw robert twinem
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8/6/1845 gilpin elizaveth dynes & Elizabeth balteagh
6/10/1845 gilpin william john henry & elizabeth Balteagh
21/11/1845 gilpin john portadown 27
28/7/1846 gilpin James gilpin 30 b farmer tamifiglasson joseph gilpin farmer mary gilpin 24 s seamsestress tamnifiglasson john gilpin farmer
28/7/1846 gilpin mary gilpin 24 s seamsestress tamnifiglasson john gilpin farmer James gilpin 30 b farmer tamifiglasson joseph gilpin farmer
15/9/1846 gilpin rachel 28 s tamifiglasson joseph gilpin farmer william Lyness 38 b farmer lisnavague william lyness farmer
30/10/1846 gilpin john 27 b farmer tamnifiglasson john gilpin farmer
6/11/1846 gilpin dynes balteagh - 81
11/11/1846 gilpin thomas 21 b farmer balteagh robert gilpin farmer jane tuft 18 s kilvergan george tuft farmer
25/12/1846 gilpin goerge balteagh - 80
28/12/1846 gilpin mary Tamifglassion -70
25/5/1847 gilpin margaret drumagoon 17
16/7/1847 gilpin richard 24 b farmer balteagh richard gilpin farmer deborah Robinson 18 s tamnifiglasson matthew robinson farmer
18/7/1847 gilpin letitia dynes & Elizabeth balteagh
31/7/1847 gilpin dynes Tamifglassion 74
15/10/1847 gilpin martha jane james & mary balteagh
15/10/1847 gilpin margaret anne John & bess Tamnifiglasson
7/6/1848 gilpin joseph -72
23/7/1848 gilpin elizabeth - 32
24/9/1848 gilpin leonard dynes & judith tamnafiglasson
3/12/1848 gilpin jane dynes & ann balteagh
15/6/1849 gilpin Joseph henry & elizabeth Balteagh
16/9/1849 gilpin richard john & sarah balteagh
16/9/1849 gilpin sarah - 3 years old john & sarah balteagh
7/10/1849 gilpin sarah john & elizabeth balteagh
10/10/1849 gilpin mary elizabeth james & mary balteagh
27/1/1850 gilpin richard dynes & Elizabeth balteagh
14/9/1850 gilpin dynes balteagh 50
18/10/1850 gilpin ellen 23 s weaver ballymacrandel william gilpin weaver william Maxwell 22 w crosmacaughly thomas maxwell pentioner
1/12/1850 gilpin mary jane james & judith balteagh
20/7/1851 gilpin william james & mary balteagh
10/8/1851 gilpin elizabeth jane richard & deborah balteagh
21/9/1851 gilpin Alice robert doherty & maria Gilpin
28/12/1851 gilpin margaret Anne John & bess Tamnifiglasson
12/7/1852 gilpin eliza Jane 24 s farmer moyraverty john gilpin farmer alexander Jones 25 b farmer moyraverty james jones farmer
4/10/1852 gilpin elizabeth Balteagh 36
16/10/1852 gilpin mary carn 66
21/12/1852 gilpin letitia gilpin 24 s farmer balteagh dynes gilpin farmer james Gilpin 34 b farmer balteagh william gilpin farmer
21/12/1852 gilpin james Gilpin 34 b farmer balteagh william gilpin farmer letitia gilpin 24 s farmer balteagh dynes gilpin farmer
20/3/1853 gilpin sarah dynes & judith tamnafiglasson
3/7/1853 gilpin John james & mary balteagh
31/7/1853 gilpin matthew richard & deborah balteagh
7/8/1853 gilpin mary john & sarah balteagh
23/10/1853 gilpin margaret William & mary Upper Seagoe
17/2/1854 gilpin james 24 b weaver drumgor robert gilpin weaver elizabeth hagan 21 s weaver balteagh james hagan weaver
19/3/1854 gilpin sarah Jane William & sarah tamniglasson
10/9/1854 gilpin william 21 b weaver balteagh william farmer margaret Lyness 21 s weaver tamniglasson Feliz mcilreavy?
15/10/1854 gilpin mary ann James & elizabetg bealteagh
4/3/1855 gilpin nathaneil John & elizabeth tamifiglasson
11/3/1855 gilpin dynes dynes & judith tamnafiglasson
9/9/1855 gilpin amelia rebecca william & sarah tamnafiglasson
8/12/1855 gilpin dynes 19 b weaver drumgor robert gilpin weaver margaret Lyness 20 s weaver drumgor joseph lyness weaver
30/12/1855 gilpin elizabeth richard & deborah balteagh
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10/2/1856 gilpin maria William & Maria tamniglasson
26/5/1856 gilpin Susanna George & elizabeth balteagh
15/6/1856 gilpin william robert George & elizabeth balteagh
15/6/1856 gilpin isabella George & elizabeth balteagh
2/10/1856 gilpin William Verner Gilpin 22 b farmer copney richard gilpin farmer Eliza Jane Gilpin Ballinor james gilpin Farmer
2/10/1856 gilpin Eliza Jane Gilpin Ballinor james gilpin Farmer William Verner Gilpin 22 b farmer copney richard gilpin farmer
27/10/1856 gilpin robert Dynes & margaret Drumgor
8/11/1856 gilpin mary ann 24 weaver dalteagh henry gilpin weaver robert brown 21 b weaver balteagh robert brown weaver
26/12/1856 gilpin mary 19 s weaver drumagoon dines gilpin weaver william hewitt 21 b weaver tanificarbet john hewitt weaver
5/1/1857 gilpin george Tamifglassion - 61
31/1/1857 gilpin alice james & eliza drumgor
3/5/1857 gilpin harriet james & mary balteagh
24/5/1857 gilpin thomas geoge George & elizabeth balteagh
21/9/1857 gilpin mary William & sarah tamniglasson
20/10/1857 gilpin jane 18 s weaver clanrola william gilpin weaver charles fylnn 23 b weaver clanrola edward flynn weaver
4/4/1858 gilpin sarah dynes & judith tamnafiglasson
3/1/1859 gilpin robert William & mary Upper Seagoe
3/1/1859 gilpin henry john William & Maria tamniglasson
11/2/1859 gilpin ann jane 25 s weaver balteagh george gilpin weaver john best 26 b weaver balteagh henry best farmer
27/2/1859 gilpin john richard & deborah balteagh
14/3/1859 gilpin sarah balteagh 78
26/3/1859 gilpin mary jane william & Margaret tamnafiglasson
5/12/1859 gilpin rachel balteagh 74
24/1/1860 gilpin william clonrola 69
28/5/1860 gilpin 22 s weaver balteagh william gilpin farmer john dawson 28 b weaver tullyherron george dasson weaver
3/1/1861 gilpin goerge 25 b weaver tarosn henry gilpin weaver rose ann coulter 28 s weaver tarson richard coulter farmer
31/3/1861 gilpin martha Jane William & mary Upper Seagoe
14/4/1861 gilpin isabella richard & deborah balteagh
25/4/1861 gilpin joseph George & Rose tarson
25/4/1861 gilpin thomas henry George & Rose tarson
9/6/1861 gilpin charles Dines & judith Tamnifiglasson
27/2/1862 gilpin jane f s farmer balteagh george gilpin George Armstrong f W farmer Drumgor William Armstrong farmer
8/5/1862 gilpin james Hamilton John & elizabeth tamifiglasson
26/5/1862 gilpin jane james & elizabeth bealteagh born 18/12/1860
6/6/1862 gilpin andrew f b weaver seagoe thomas gilpin farmer Ellen McCaughly f s weaver seoagoe isreal McCaughley farmer
25/6/1862 gilpin Joseph dynes & margaret balteagh born 8/2/1862
31/7/1862 gilpin ellen margaret andrew & ellen lower seagoe weaver born 20/4/1862
27/8/1862 gilpin mary richard & deborah balteagh born 23/2/1862
11/12/1862 gilpin jane james chambers f w royal artillery knocknamuckly adam charmbers labourer
26/6/1863 gilpin sarah james & elizabeth bealteagh born 29/5/1863
5/6/1864 gilpin richard richard & deborah balteagh born 12/4/1864
14/8/1864 gilpin william balteagh 64
16/3/1865 gilpin james dynes & margaret balteagh born 12 /1864
13/10/865 gilpin dynes drumagoon 77
12/11/1865 gilpin elizabeth anne john humpjeries and eliza gilpin balteagh weaver bor 21/8/1865
12/11/1865 gilpin elizabeth anne john humpjeries and eliza gilpin balteagh weaver bor
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Interesting info on Jane Gilpin Dever. I found her marriage to George Dever in PA in 1890. He was born in Ireland per the marriage cert. She is listed as Jennie but I've tied that name back to her on other documents so I'm confident it is her.
In Ireland Jennie was often a nickname for Jane.
See: https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Traditional_Nicknames_in_Old_Documents_-_A_Wiki_List#J
KG
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An Isabella Gilpin (father Richard) married a Thomas Lee, 1856, Dungannon. Her residence is Copney.
Possibly where the confusion is.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1856/09510/5446853.pdf
There is also a 1864 birth of an Isabella Gilpin, from Copney, father, Thomas.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03629/2339798.pdf
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Is this Isabella & Thomas's daughters marriage?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K8NS-ZRG
1900 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9Q5-JBY
Military service for Amanda 1917
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP8J-GNHJ
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Yes, these are my g-grandparents. Their children were: Ethel (my grandmother), Amanda (married and divorced Martin Davis), Maude (unnamed child in census...She was shipped as an infant to NJ and raised by Richard and Mary (Gilpin) McClelland.)
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Isabella & Thomas's grave on findagrave
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/74382497/isabella-g-wilson
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Hi
Thanks, I've was fortunate to have visited the grave in person. I'm not convinced about the year of birth. I have many conflicting dates on various documents. I need their marriage certificate...I looked in the same place (Manchester, Ct) that I found my grandmother's birth cert but no luck...per census, they were married 1891 or 1892.
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I certainly cannot find an Irish birth record for either of them in that range. Possible the names were spelt differently.
From the 1900 Conn Census, it certainly looks as though the marriage was around 1892 & that Isabella may have been with child at that time.
Could they have been married at sea?
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Have you looked at this marriage in Canada?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FMVV-L8V
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Marriage at sea is something I hadn't considered...if that was the case, would the passenger list have her with her maiden or married name, I wonder?I'm
Thank you,
Law
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Name: Isabella Gilpin
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 6 Oct 1891
Marriage Place: Astoria, New York, USA
Spouse: Thomas Wilson
Certificate Number: 17410
Only the index is online at Ancestry.
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That could be them...there is family connection in NY...
Thank you!!
Laura
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Mary Gilpin, daughter of Thomas Gilpin of Copney, born 1866, Armagh
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03532/2299810.pdf
Added.
From the 1900 census, it looks like they were married around 1896. They emigrated 1887 & 1889
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9JT-S3Z
Richard's passport application, 1925
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99D3-P9QF-9?i=675&cc=2185145&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQV5Y-CQ4G
Gives there marriage date as 25th Dec 1895
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9D3-P362?i=676&cc=2185145
Includes photo of them both
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Thomas Gilpin of Copney in 1901 Irish census.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Killymann/Copney/1015586/
Daughters Isabella and Mary have the wrong ages........Isabella born 1864 & Mary 1866.
KG
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Death of Thomas Gilpin of Copney in 1902.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1902/05689/4603348.pdf
His daughter Mary was the informant.
KG
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Thanks everyone. I struggle bc my Isabella's death certificate lists her father as Wm. V. ...but I cannot tie her to him. Per her obit, I know she had a brother David and James alive in 1915 also...that all fits with Wm. V except Isabella!! I'm going to check out these other families also so thank you for the leads.
Laura
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Have you done your DNA? You should be a close match to hubby's cousin who is noted as noelwilson22.
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That online tree must be missing older children since the couple were married in 1856 and the first child shown is born 1865.
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eileenwilson, I agree. The online tree also didn't have David Gilpin, Wm. and Eliza's son. So I'm holding out hope that perhaps Isabella is Wm. V's daughter born abt 1858 which would make more sense with the marriage date. Need to do more research to prove that out...but as I've mentioned, my Isabella's death certificate names Wm. V as her father plus information in her obit and other documentation I have puts her in that family.
I have not done the DNA.
Thanks to all of you for your help with all of this!
Laura
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Hi All,
With Covid etc...I finally just heard back from the City of New York Department of Records & Information Services for my request for the marriage certificate referenced in Ancestry (per eileenwilson's note above - Isabella Gilpin to Thomas Wilson 10/8/1891 Astoria, NY Number 17410). They came back and said that they could not find a record. Well it must exist if Ancestry has it indexed, right?...I need help with NY. They searched Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx and Richmond. Did I go to the wrong place? I assumed Astoria was Queens. Should I go to the NY State Dept of Health Vital Records? Anyway, any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
Laura
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The database reference at Ancestry indicates that the record comes from the the NY Department of Health:
https://www.health.ny.gov/vital_records/
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Thanks! I'm going to try again!
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Quick Update...NY Health Department (as cited in the Ancestry marriage index for NY) is "unable" to process records that occurred in NYC and sent me back to the NYC city clerk who sent me to the NY Health Department previously! So a circular dead end on this marriage record until things open again and I can perhaps make a visit to look myself. Although Isabella and Thomas' index indicates the location as Astoria in Queens in 1891...in researching it seems the records on file for Queens do not go that far back (although there is an index entry?).
I'm still leaning toward my Isabella Gilpin being a child of William Verner (mostly due to the death cert listing father as Wm V. Gilpin). I found a notation (not proven out yet) that the Isabella who is the daughter of William's brother Richard died in 1864, so if true, no chance she is my Isabella bringing me back to mine being Wm V's daughter.
Just wanted to update you all since you gave me so much help which I truly appreciate. I'll keep at it. Thank you so much again.
Laura
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I'm still leaning toward my Isabella Gilpin being a child of William Verner (mostly due to the death cert listing father as Wm V. Gilpin). I found a notation (not proven out yet) that the Isabella who is the daughter of William's brother Richard died in 1864, so if true, no chance she is my Isabella bringing me back to mine being Wm V's daughter.
You can view the death certificate via GRONI (pay per view) but this extract indicates that father Richard was the informant (parents' names are not included on death registrations but informant's relationship usually given)-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QG2T-X2P6
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Hi
Thank you, that then confirms that Richard's Isabella is NOT my Isabella as mine lived to move to the US and died in CT in 1915. Which brings me back to thinking that my Isabella Gilpin is the daughter of William Verner her dob being sometime around 1858 prior to civil records which is why I can't find her and absolutely prove once and for all she is William's daughter.
Thanks again,
Laura
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eileenwilson, do you have anything that indicates Richard Gilpin (Doctor, I believe) and Dinah Thompson are William Verner's Parents? Any siblings to William?
Thanks,
Laura
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Belfast Newsletter, 8 Mar.1842: I HEREBY caution the Public not to ... my wife, DINAH GILPIN, otherwise ... anything on my account, as I will not pay any Debts she may contract in my name after this date. RICHARD GILPIN. LOUGHGALL, March 7, 1842.
Northern Whig, 12 July 1880: GILPINAt the residence of her brother, William John Thompson, Carnban, Lisburn, Dinah, relict of the late Dr. Gilpin. Her remains will be removed for Interment in Lisburn Cathedral Burying-ground, on to-morrow (Tuesday), 13th instant. Friends ...
Unfortunately her brother William was the informant-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1880/06470/4861144.pdf
I did find this death- Richard Gilpin, farmer, Copney, informant- son William Verner Gilpin (signed by his mark which makes me doubt his father was the above Dr. Richard Gilpin)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1873/020682/7256771.pdf
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Hi
Thank you...yes, I don't think Dr. Richard Gilpin and Dinah are William Verner's parents. KatC about a year ago put up the Seagoe records earlier on this post and I completely missed the following...now thinking William's father is a different Richard:
2/10/1856 gilpin William Verner Gilpin 22 b farmer copney richard gilpin farmer Eliza Jane Gilpin Ballinor james gilpin Farmer
2/10/1856 gilpin Eliza Jane Gilpin Ballinor james gilpin Farmer William Verner Gilpin 22 b farmer copney richard gilpin farmer
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Not sure if this has been posted-
Newry Telegraph, 22 Mar.1849: On the _th inst., Copney, near Loughgall, at the advanced age of _ years, Sarah, relict of the late Mr. John Gilpin, of said place, and mother of Richard Gilpin, M.D.
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Moy PARISH RECORDS (ST JAMES ) Partial Gilpin extract done in 1996
It shows that Dr. Richard Gilpin who was married to Dinah was not William Verner Gilpin's father
as he is listed separately
(a list of parishioners by townland, giving head of house and members of household, compiled in 1852 and revised to 1860)
John, Copney, 50 years, Wife Sarah 50, Richard Thompson 20, George 19,
William James 15, Sally Regan 13, Charlotte Elisa 10.
(All then deleted, possibly 1860 since this family moved to Canada) M. R. P31 No. 8
Richard,Copney, a country doctor. M. R. P31 No. 10
Richard, Copney, 47 years, Wife Rachel 47. Sarah 24, Margaret 22, David 20,
William Verner 15, Isabella 13, Rachel 9.
Thomas, Copney, 45 years, Wife Alice Jane 35. Richard 7, Thomas Love 9, John 5, Francis 4, Ann
2. (Sinclair born 1852) (Rachel born 1862)
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-there were at least 2 Richard Gilpins in Copney in the early 1800's
-please review https://irishdeedsindex.net/index.php
-specifically memorial 5644525 Dec 28 1828 Gilpin to Matchett vol 842 pg 25
-it mentions a transaction between Richard Gilpin Surgeon and John Gilpin farmer both of Copney in the county of Armagh and John Matchet of Derryanville in said county of Armagh farmer
-witnesses were Richard Gilpin of Copney in the County of Armagh weaver and John Courtney Gilpin of the same place weaver
-the two Richards are different people - one was a surgeon and one was a weaver/farmer
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William Verner Gilpin was probably named after Sir William Verner 2nd Baronet (4 April 1822 10 January 1873 - who owned estates both in the county of Armagh and the county of Tyrone