RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wicklow => Topic started by: Murrell on Wednesday 29 July 20 16:59 BST (UK)
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Hi does anyone know if this was just an orphanage or would it have been part of a workhouse.
Many thanks
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Tinahely is quite small, where and when have you got evidence of an orphanage there?
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The nearest Workhouse was in Shillelagh about 6 miles away
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Shillelagh/
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Hi Sinann, many thanks for your reply. A family member said our grandmother was placed in the orphanage at Tinahely with her younger sister. The sister died there aged nine.
I thought there may have been in a workhouse in the area - it's all very vague and I don't have dates other than my grandmother was born 1905.
I am interested but will have to think how to pursue any enquiries.
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I'd look for the sister's death cert
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
Do you want to give her name? Lots of willing helpers here.
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Cheers thanks. I found a death for a child with the name l looking for Lucy Kearns but she age 3 at death not 9 as my relative told me 😕
I also found an advertisement from Rathdrum Union wanting to board out some children all Kearns surname John aged 11yr 6mth Kate (maybe my grandma) 9yrs 6mtg
James 6yrs 6mths and Lucy 2yrs 6mth.
My grandma born September 1905 so that does match.
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Sorry should have said haven't found any details for Shillelagh workhouse yet but will keep looking 😀
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Sorry the Rathdrum advertisement is 1910.
And should read Kate Kearns age doesn't match.
Seems I'm confusing myself and aiming to confuse all the Rootchatters too lol
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Sorry the Rathdrum advertisement is 1910.
And should read Kate Kearns age doesn't match.
Seems I'm confusing myself and aiming to confuse all the Rootchatters too lol
Here's the advertisement for all to read.
Wicklow News-Letter and County Advertiser - Saturday 12 November 1910
KG
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These two are likely to be John and James from the newspaper
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wicklow/Rathdrum/Kingston/897311/
There is a 9 year old female KK in Rathdrum Workhouse sick with scabies in 1911 place of birth given as Avondale, I wonder if this could be Kate
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003654019/
and the 1911 death of Lucy is February so she would miss the census, if it's the same Lucy.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1911/05405/4510109.pdf
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Many thanks Kiltaglassan for putting up the advertisement wasn't sure how to post it lol.
Sinann yrs I'd seen James & John on census but also saw petty court records Familysearch which links to Findmypass it shows a John Kearns under 14yrs has assaulted Kate Kearns at Rathdrum he is sent away to an Industrial School St Joseph's Athlone until 1917
Kate Kearns is also sent away too Summerhill for girls Athlone her date until 1918 Cricky I'm mega confused now.
Originally I'm told the girls were in orphanage which I accept that may have been a more fanciful way to say rather than I was in the workhouse!
Lucy was said to be 9yrs at time of death but you know it's being to hang together- no mention has be made of brothers but I can't rule them out either.
Ps where is Avondale- is it a place of a home?
Thank you ever do much for your help ☺
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Avondale is a place in Wicklow, very beautiful place.
https://www.townlands.ie/wicklow/ballinacor-north/rathdrum/rathdrum/avondale/
zoom out and you will see it's just south of Rathdrum
Have you any idea who the children's parents were or what happened to them? I can't find births to match them but it's difficult when you have no idea of the parents.
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Some more information on Avondale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avondale_House
KG
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The story is that the parents died and the girls were put in the orphanage at Tinahely the father is named as Michael on Kate Kearns marriage 1921 to William Whelan the marriage is at Moone RD Church
Yes of just seen area of Avondale. Oh sorry Michael is described as a labourer.
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Avondale house looks interesting when I'm back in Ireland l will check it out. Thank you
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Iv come across the Wicklow Site with records on-line for Shilleghagh Workhouse and have been searching thru to see if Kate & Lucy were living there- not seen them there yet. As Lucy died in the orphanage as grandma called it my thinking was it would show her death there.
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If the newspaper children and the Lucy death we found are correct than they were in Rathdrum workhouse.
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Page 50 1909-1910
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01psf/ page 50
discharged in Jan 1911
I think the previous residence is Kilcoole missing the e
Listed again 1912-1914, last address Avondale, John and Kate are discharged in 1912, the writing is very small, looks like John was 'commanded to reformatory' Jan 13th and Kate to an Industrial school(Athlone perhaps) , August 19, James must have stayed in Rathdrum
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01psg/ page 28.
Just noticed the links are not working it just gives page one so added page numbers
1908-1909
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01psh/ Page 39
Mary Kearns mother of John Kate James and Lucy (all illegitimate)
Look at the John Lemon (sp?) listed above in first and last entries. I think he's with them.
1907
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01psi/ Mary and John, Kate and James page 66
1904 Page 72, 56 and 53
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01psj/
1903-1904 Page 36, 32
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01psk/
Page 59
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01psl/ (that man John is listed below them with a son)
1901 to 1902
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01psm/ pages 13, 12
Kate is 1 week old and there is an older boy William aged 8
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Hi Sinann
I'm mega impressed with your searching - l continued to look thru Shillelagh Workhouse last nite but didn't see a Lucy so at the moment it is very much as if they were definitely at Rathdrum.
I'm wondering if my relative having been told Lucy was 9 yrs when she died, could in fact be it was Grandma Kate who was 9yrs when her sister died!!!!
I can't thank you enough for your help 😀
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Yes, I've been thinking the same, that it was Kate who was 9 when Lucy died.
Kate is 1 week old in March 1902 but there doesn't appear to be a birth cert so it doesn't look like she was born in the workhouse, I think it's going to be the same for the rest of the children, the only one with a cert it seems is Lucy's death cert but the children would have been baptised.
You would need to look through the registers more carefully but first pass it looks like Mary brought her children to the workhouse for short spells in the winter, I think the man John was with them and may even be the children's father.
There just doesn't appear to be any other combination of Kate and Lucy any where in Wicklow so I'd say these are your family. The death of Lucy would I'd say confirm it.
Michael on Kate's marriage cert could be made up, it wasn't uncommon to make up a father or he could be a father figure from some point in her life.
We haven't found any connection to Tinahely but again it may be some where she lived at some point.
If her brother John attacked her it might explain why she never mentioned having brothers.
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A though, the boy William with Mary in 1902, I think is the son of John Lomax, this looks like Mary and John in 1899, numbers 184 and 185, page 30.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01psp/
See page 69 from 1756
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Have a look at this marriage Oct 1893
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1893/10616/5867938.pdf
John Lomax and Anne Kearns, could John Lomax be Mary's brother in law!.. or even step father!
John Lomax and son William are in the workhouse in 1894, John at number 1690 and William at 1706 on page 68
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01psq/
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There are some Petty Sessions records for John Lomax and one for a William Lomack 1908 to 1910, I can only see the index on FamilySearch but you can look on Find My Past, yes?
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Wow ur on a super roll Sinann. Having just seen your post it does seem to fit & maybe Kate made Michael up! we will never know.
But I do know when she married a second time she named a different father ?
I'm beginning wonder what was going on she claimed her
date of birth 09.09.1905.
Honestly you couldn't make it up -talk about secrets and lies lol
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She was only 9 when she lost her mother, so I guess she might not have known when her birthday was, it's possible over the years she and those caring for her lost track of her age. It's not like people celebrated birthdays or continually had to fill in date of birth on forms like we do.
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Hi on just checked out William Lomack 29th May 1908.
He broke shop Windows two of them valued at 2pounds 6shillings for this he is committed to a Reformatory for 3 yrs.
As for John Lomax he ill treated an ass 3rd Aug 1910 the case is adjourned - same date he is drunk in the workhouse
for this he is convicted 1month hard labour Mountjoy
8th Sept John is given 2months for the earlier hearing ill treatment of Thomas Cullan's ass
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Yes that true there would not be as much emphasis placed on birthdays- and I'm thinking not many requirements where dob were asked not like now a days.Probably later in life easier to create a date.
Once again thank you very much, I will take a further look at everything in the morning. 😀