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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: panda40 on Saturday 01 August 20 11:30 BST (UK)
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Morning Roots chatters
First of all, my apologies as I am not as familiar with searching Irish records as I am looking for information in English records.
I am looking for baptism or birth information for the following individual please.
James Barrett 1900- date of birth according to 1939 register, 04/10/1900 birthplace Co. Mayo Ireland.
Date of birth according to death certificate registration 03/10/1900. Died July 1980
According to 1901 census living in Cappavicar South Turlough Mayo
1901 Irish Census son of Michael Barrett and Ann Barrett.
He moved to Liverpool and married sometime before 1922.
Marriage available on ancestry listed as Jacobum Barrett marriage date 23/09/1922 St James Liverpool parents confirmed as Michael and Anne.
I have looked on some of the links for Irish records but either drew a blank or was unable to confirm I had the right James Barrett.
If anyone can help find his baptism record that would be great.
Many thanks in advance
Panda
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I found the birth certificate for James’s sister Mary, born Cappavicar 28.12.1897, which tells you his mother’s maiden name was Kearns (or Kerins). I don’t see a birth certificate for James though. Perhaps it wasn’t registered, in which case a baptism may be the only alternative.
Turlough parish records only go up to 1880 on the National library of Ireland site. However rootsireland has them to 1925 (subscription site).
I found Michael & Ann’s marriage in 1895. He was a widower. It was her first marriage.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02091/1797178.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1895/10529/5835117.pdf
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I don’t see a birth certificate for James though. Perhaps it wasn’t registered
Is this the birth cert:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1902/01907/1739797.pdf
add - No. 162 Castlebar
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A big thank you to Gadget and Elwyn. That looks to fit in with the information I have been given. I was speaking to his daughter yesterday who knows very little about her parents family as her mother died when she was young.
Thanks for your help. I will pass the information on to her
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If that is the same child then Anne would have to be lying about the date of birth. You can't be born on 2 April 1902 and be on the 1901 census. The date of birth is not even close to the 1939 register.
Debra :)
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Is this the family with James as 5 months old
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Turlough/Cappavicar_South/1585384/
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Thanks Dundee for your comments. The family recall that he was not baptised a birth for some unknown reason but that he was done later around the same time as a younger sibling. As for lying about ages, my great great grandfather knocked 11 years off his age so there was not such a big gap between him and his second wife. It was easier to do that sort of thing in those days ;D >
Regards
Panda
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There was a small financial penalty for late birth registration. However the Registrar often lived miles away and people tended to wait till they were in the area for some other reason, so often long after the period in which they were supposed to register the birth. Many couples got around the penalty by moving the reported birth date to one that didn’t incur it. Possibly that’s what happened here. It’s common to find people in Ireland in the 1800s who were apparently born long after they were baptised. This is usually the explanation.
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Michael and Ann registered a child Catherine Born 21st December 1900
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1901/01961/1756562.pdf
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Thanks Dundee for your comments. The family recall that he was not baptised a birth for some unknown reason but that he was done later around the same time as a younger sibling. As for lying about ages, my great great grandfather knocked 11 years off his age so there was not such a big gap between him and his second wife. It was easier to do that sort of thing in those days ;D >
Regards
Panda
I am not talking about knocking years off your own age. The James on the 1901 census is 5 months old and the birth registration for the child named James says he was born on 2 April 1902.
Debra :)
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1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Turlough/Cappavicar__South/717803/
and married 16 years 9 children.
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Daughter Kate is 11 yrs in 1911 with the family and James is 10 yrs old
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Turlough/Cappavicar__South/717803/
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Maybe hoping for a boy when Catherine was born and the census entry was an error :)
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Is the Turlough family a supposition - lots of Barretts in Mayo especially around Belmullet area.
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Michael isn't at home that night of 1911 Census but he is named on the house and building return
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002986901/
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In 1911 Anne gives the month's for some of the children as well, which is unusual
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002986913/
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All the family location information I have is from the census information. James died in England but asked to be buried with his wife who died in Ireland during the Second World War where she was evacuated with her family.
Thank you to everyone who has helped it is appreciated
Regards
Panda
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Having said that about all the Barretts in Belmullet (hard time sorting them) I can’t see a relevant James in Mayo.
However, you have that family with a James but a birth for Catherine around the right time so odd as it may seem, there seems to be an error in the census.
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Think it far more likely they just registered the birth very late, ideally baptisms should be checked they will be on time.
With a bit of work it could be worked out using the free search on RootsIreland, allowing for the +/-5years
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The parents names come from the information he listed on his marriage in 1922. I have not managed to locate another James with parents Micheal and Ann. You can see why I asked for help it was getting confusing. >:(
Regards panda
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In 1911 Anne gives the month's for some of the children as well, which is unusual
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002986913/
The ages of the children don’t match up so the arithmetic seems wrong. However, as I posted before Catherine was registered in January 1901 as born December 1900.
James registration is posted also - 1902
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The parents names come from the information he listed on his marriage in 1922. I have not managed to locate another James with parents Micheal and Ann. You can see why I asked for help it was getting confusing. >:(
Regards panda
Who was the wife who was buried in Mayo?
Where are they buried in Mayo?
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His wife was Mary nee Walsh I will have to wait till I see his daughter next to find out the name of the cemetery. She told me she was evacuated during the war and her mother died around 1942 but she was a very young child and doesn’t remember many details of the events. I will post any further info if I get it.
Thanks everyone
Panda
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After I posted that I remembered his wife was Mary Walsh. I then thought maybe she too was Irish and could have died at her own family place.
The witness to the marriage was John Barrett but not much help otherwise.
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As far as I know but not confirmed Mary was baptised in Liverpool 1900.
Regards Panda
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Think it far more likely they just registered the birth very late, ideally baptisms should be checked they will be on time.
With a bit of work it could be worked out using the free search on RootsIreland, allowing for the +/-5years
Didn't work just too many James Barrett born around that time in Mayo to make it work
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The Barrett/Walsh marriage shows Mary’s parents as Francis and Maria/Mary
There is a baptism 26th February 1900 - Maria Brigida Walsh Born 20th February -parents Francis and Maria/y Durcan.
26 Beacon Street.
I can’t see the family in 1901/1911
There is this marriage Park, Castlebar
March 2nd 1899
Francis Walsh and Maria Durkin
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1899/10373/5776755.pdf
Could be useful :)
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I wonder if this is Mary Barrett's death?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1942/04673/4244782.pdf
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I have found a few records which are possible but didn’t want to go off at a tangent. You are searching for James, rather than Mary.
However, the findings seem to be confirmed here - 1911 census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Manulla/Ballygommon/711900/
Mary B Walsh b England is with her Durcan grandmother
They live in Ballygommon townland which, I think matches the residence at death Of Mary Barrett in 1942.
This seems to point to Mary returning to her family rather than to James’ family although the places are fairly close to each other.
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Just a bit more re Mary - sorry. I do hope this is your Mary :-\
Birth as Welsh
June quarter 1900 Liverpool 8b pg 45
Mary Bridget Welsh mmn Durkie
1901 3409/134/34
41 Beacon Street
Frank Welsh 25 yrs General Labourer b Ireland
Maria Welsh 24 Yrs b Ireland
Mary B Welsh 1 yr b Liverpool
Patrick Gibbons boarder b Ireland
Christopher Welsh brother 28 yrs b Ireland
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Thanks for the extra information. I am waiting for a family member to get back to me so I can confirm what has been discovered by all you wonderful people and hopefully fill in some of the blanks as well.
Regards
Panda