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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: margaret1 on Monday 10 August 20 07:27 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone,
I am searching for any information about Albert Graham Caine, Jane Elizabeth. and daughter Edna.
FindMyPast Lancashire Baptisms
Lancashire Baptisms Aigburth, St Anne, Church of England Liverpool
Caine Edna
Birth 20 Feb 1915
Baptism 07 Mar 1915
Residence 1 Amphtill Rd
Father Albert Graham occupation Confectioner
Mother Jane Elizabeth
Liverpool Record Office Archive ref 283-AIG-2-1
See link for background.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=834025.27
Thank you
Margaret
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There is this birth registration:
Edna Cain - mother Cain
1915 March quarter , Toxteth Park Vol 8b pg 430
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Sorry Margaret,
I see you have that registration.
1, Ampthill Road
1911 have a different name
1920 - Benson family
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There is this birth registration:
Edna Cain - mother Cain
1915 March quarter , Toxteth Park Vol 8b pg 430
Thanks heywood - that would fit with her being perhaps fostered or adopted.
The baptism in Aigburth has the exact birth date OH's grandmother Edna which may be a coincidence but worth exploring.
Margaret
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Sorry Margaret,
I see you have that registration.
1, Ampthill Road
1911 have a different name
1920 - Benson family
Maybe Albert and Jane Elizabeth married after 1911 and moved before 1920.
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Caine Edna
Birth 20 Feb 1915
Baptism 07 Mar 1915
Residence 1 Amphtill Rd
Gore's Directory for 1914 shows that Caroline Benson was already the occupier of 1 Ampthill Road by then.
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As the surname & mmn are both Caine I would recommend buying a copy of the 1915 birth cert to see whether Albert’s name appears as father and how Jane Elizabeth is shown. She should be shown as Cain nee Cain if they were married
Graham could possibly have been his surname
Also - whether Ampthill Rd is shown as the birth address
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Wise words Carole. :)
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Thank you Heywood, ShaunJ and CaroleW for the information and recommendations.
Margaret :)
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I live 4 miles from St Anne church - and I know many many Caine family - how far forward have you progressed - I might be able to put you in touch with existing Caine family related to Edna and her mother Jane Elizabeth
you will see here - a huge amount of Caine family in Garston
https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?q.surname=caine&q.anyPlace=garston&f.recordCountry=England&f.recordSubcountry=England%2CLancashire&m.defaultFacets=on&m.queryRequireDefault=on&m.facetNestCollectionInCategory=on&count=20&offset=0
said to be in Garston from the Isle of Man - is it a Manx surname ??
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Thank you garstonite for you kind offer - how wonderful!
I am right at the beginning of my research into the Caine family. It's probably best if you go to the link to another topic that I posted in my first post for some background into my research thus far - if you have time.
My husband has many, many DNA matches with Caine/Cain as well as lots of other Manx names which must be the descendants of his paternal line - his Mum's extensive family have no Isle of Man matches.
Thanks again,
Margaret
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Margaret - I don't know how true this is - it is men talking in the pub
Caine - Manx .......Cain - not Manx
Corkill - Manx .......Corkhill - not Manx
Laughna - Manx .....Lauhna - not Manx
Quayle - Manx .......Quail - not Manx
if it helps in any way
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ADDED
Just text my mate J*** Caine - his ancestor in Garston came from St Anne ,Isle of Man ...never heard of St Anne in the Isle of Man ....lol
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....Yes that's great :D
OH also has matches with Corkill, Quayle, Cowley, Coole, Clague, Garret, Kelly, Teare, Watterson, Corlett and the list goes on....however our Edna is supposed to have family (? parents) who owned a sweet and tobacco shop in Liverpool in the 1940's.
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France evidently - Cain
Last name: Cain
It derives from the Middle English "cane", a development of the Old French "cane", meaning cane, reed. Secondly, it may be a Norman locational name from the town of Caen, in Calvados, Normandy, named with the Gaulish elements "catu", battle, plus "magos" meaning field, plain.
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St Anne is Santon in The Isle of Man
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santon_(parish)
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This is interesting .
Napoleanic Wars
The Royal Manx Fencibies fought in the Napoleanic War. formed 1779
I wonder if that is where the French Cain became the Manx Caine ??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Manx_Fencibles
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a good read
http://www.iomfhs.im/resources/births/C-Caine.html
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...I agree - really interesting article about The Royal Manx Fencibles.
I must admit I am a tad naive when it comes to IOM history etc., so I do appreciate the links. also Santon = St.Anne IOM I didn't know this either. :-[
Just had a quick look at the IOM Family History Society Birth Registrations - this is great, so many matching names including Cannell, Killip and Quirk. I'll have a good trawl through it tomorrow morning when my antipodean brain is fresh.
In appreciation,
Margaret :D
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that list sounds good news Margaret xxx
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Success!!!
I've found Edna's maternal grandparents, thanks to garstonite posting the link to The Isle of Man Family History Society Births and Marriages Registration Index.
CAIN, Elizabeth Jane born 2 Apr 1894 - Parents CAIN, Robert Joseph and COOLE, Jane
Marriage: CAIN, Robert Joseph 20 Aug 1887 COOLE, Jane
Next I checked husband David's DNA matches from the IOM who had sent him their family trees and Robert Joseph Caine and Jane Coole matched!
Basically, there are at least another five people, that we know of, who share DNA with OH who have well researched trees for this family going all the way back to William Caine (1720 - 1786) and Isobel Oates (1720–1808) Booilevane farm, Baldwin, Isle of Man, which is also our Edna's direct line.
I'll post more detailed information about my findings and begin my search for Albert tomorrow.
Thanks to everyone for their help and valuable advice thus far.
garstonite you are a gem!
Margaret :D :D :D
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In case Graham is Albert's surname (reply 6) and in view of the connection with the Isle of Man, the 1911 census has an Albert Graham of a suitable age and with the correct occupation.
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In case Graham is Albert's surname (reply 6) and in view of the connection with the Isle of Man, the 1911 census has an Albert Graham of a suitable age and with the correct occupation.
Thanks Comberton - looks promising.
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Good news Margaret xxxx...Garstonians get everywhere..lol
just so you know
Garstonians are from the Under the bridge part of Garston
Garstonites are from Up The Village part of Garston
The Caines are onians
xx
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David writes...'sounds like the Caines are a bunch of trolls in the old sense of the word....and I'm one of them. Foll-dee-roll etc. Thanks for all your help mate'.
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As the surname & mmn are both Caine I would recommend buying a copy of the 1915 birth cert to see whether Albert’s name appears as father and how Jane Elizabeth is shown. She should be shown as Cain nee Cain if they were married
Graham could possibly have been his surname
Also - whether Ampthill Rd is shown as the birth address
Edna's birth certificate shows 1 Ampthill Road Toxteth Park as both the birth address and residence of mother Jane Elizabeth Cain. There is no name or surname nor occupation of father. She was born 20th February 1915.
Since this post I have discovered quite a lot about Albert Graham and Edna Cain whose adoptive surname is Williams. Edna was adopted/fostered sometime between 1915 and 1921 by Hugh and Lydia Williams from Failsworth Lancs. Both Albert Graham and Janie Cain and their families hail from the Isle of Man. I have researched Elizabeth Jane 'Janie' Cain's family quite extensively however I have not been able to find anything about her after Edna was born in 1915 which is really frustrating. :(
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Caine Edna
Birth 20 Feb 1915
Baptism 07 Mar 1915
Residence 1 Amphtill Rd
Gore's Directory for 1914 shows that Caroline Benson was already the occupier of 1 Ampthill Road by then.
Shaun, I was wondering if Gore's directory has entries for 1915 and if Jane Elizabeth Cain (Elizabeth Jane Cain) or anyone else was listed as living with the Benson Family at the above address? It's just that I can't find any trace of Janie after 1915. Caroline and Henry Benson had a son, William Kitchin Benson who enlisted in the Army in 1915 giving 1 Ampthill Road as his address also.
Thank you Margaret
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Interesting story
So if Albert GRAHAM was a confectioner could young Terry have been taken to see his grandfather by his birth mother
I also have connections to Caine from IOM who lived near Liverpool
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Thank you brigidmac for taking the time to read all of this - my husband and I thought at first the same thing about Albert being the relative who owned the sweet shop in Liverpool where Edna took Terry for visits, however sadly, Albert died in 1936.
From what I can piece together it is probable that Janie and Albert met in the Isle of Man and then she came to Liverpool to give birth to Edna perhaps earlier as Albert had enlisted in the Army and was stationed at Seaforth Liverpool with the Kings Liverpool Regiment before heading off to billets then battle on 6th March the day before Edna's baptism on 7th March 1915 in Aigburth, see below link:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=836050.0
Albert was fighting overseas until at least 1920. In the 1921 census he was living with his parents and elder sister at 54 Loch Promenade Douglas Isle of Man - 6 year old Edna was living with her adoptive parents Hugh and Lydia Williams at 6 Piercy Street Failsworth and I can't find Janie on the 1921 census. She did not return home to her father and step mother who were living in Strang, Braddan Isle of Man in 1921 and both sets of her grandparents had died. I thought I found a death for her in 1918 in Birkenhead Cheshire and bought the certificate - the informant was M. Murray sister. Janie's only sister was Mary Catherine 'Katie' Cain who was single when she married Arthur Quayle in 1920 in Braddan Isle of Man.
Albert married Nancy Annie Katherine Todd in 1926 at Douglas IOM however sadly she died in 1928. He married Kathleen Garnett Ore in 1934, There were no children from either marriage.
Al died 19 June 1936 in Douglas IOM. See newpaper obituaries included in link above.
It's interesting that you also have Cain(e) family from IOM and near Liverpool. My husband has a public tree on Ancestry that I manage if you want to take a look - it would be great if you found some family in common.
Margaret :D
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I have found your tree
You've managed to find some great Caine photos
Looks like they are not connected to my Caine s .
Fantastic detective work by everyone .
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Pity you couldn't find a family connection brigidmac.
The photos belong to a cousin of my husband, David (discovered through DNA) He is descended from Janie's brother John Joseph Cain who emigrated to New Zealand.
Yes. Kudos to everyone who has contributed. 8)
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They may still be connected further up
I've messaged you with the names of Caines I reached in 1780 and a person to check DNA matches with .
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Let's hope I can find a match.
Margaret :D
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we might find a match through the CORLETT branch ..how do you connect ?
1846 your husband may match the DAULMAN descendants of
my grandfathers half sister s mother in law was Elizabeth Corlett b1847
+we are connected to Florence KAIGHAN 1888 who married a CORLETT in Birkenhead
its distant relatives to me but if you are related they have been extensively researched and there are lots of photos fromthose branches too
Are you matching any SMITH.s ?
the adoptee i help is descended fromEdgar Smith + margaret CAINE
'll pm some of those matches ..whose trees are private but i know the connection
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Thanks Brigid,
I'm onto it - will let you know the results.
Margaret :D
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we might find a match through the CORLETT branch ..how do you connect ?
1846 your husband may match the DAULMAN descendants of
my grandfathers half sister s mother in law was Elizabeth Corlett b1847
+we are connected to Florence KAIGHAN 1888 who married a CORLETT in Birkenhead
its distant relatives to me but if you are related they have been extensively researched and there are lots of photos fromthose branches too
Are you matching any SMITH.s ?
the adoptee i help is descended fromEdgar Smith + margaret CAINE
'll pm some of those matches ..whose trees are private but i know the connection
Robert E Corlett married Flotence Kaighan 1929 in Birkenhead
Margaret - Corlett family here in Garston - I drink in my local with the Corlett lads - if you want to ask any questions to them ,let me know - and YES - I still follow this post ...lol :)
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Hello garstonite......I might need some time to think about that! - the Corlett line is growing by the minute it seems 8)
Brigid and I will post a summary of our results soon I hope.
Margaret :D
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OK Hun - I will keep an eye out - and will also speak to the Corlett lads - and see if Robert E Corlett and Florence Kaighan are their grandparents .. :)
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my Caine CORLETT connections are all branches thru marriage and two adoptees so no blood relatives but do have photos of Florence KAIGHAN + her family
Also a CORLETT JEVONS connection s wrote a book Bygone Birkenhead which features a pic if my great grandfather George Smith
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my Caine CORLETT connections are all branches thru marriage and two adoptees so no blood relatives but do have photos of Florence KAIGHAN + her family
Also a CORLETT JEVONS connection s wrote a book Bygone Birkenhead which features a pic if my great grandfather George Smith
THERE ARE A LOT of Jevons in Garston - and I mean A LOT ...THEY ARE EVERYWHERE ...LOL
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Update margarettes hubby + I are not biologically related.
Even the branches of the CAINEs that we were looking at probably don't match till much further back .
There is a Caine family history isle of man Facebook page for anyone who is interested
The most recent post with photos is about John Caine died 1917 leaving 6 sons
There are many comments on that post from people who have Caine connections to isle of man and Australia