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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Roxburghshire => Topic started by: Andi R on Monday 10 August 20 12:27 BST (UK)
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Well hello its good to be back after years away
Covid lockdown made me pick up the tree again, and doing well, however now looking for information on the maternal side of Thomas Rutherford (blacksmith Bonchester Bridge) his mother was a Bettie Beattie, and her mother also Betty was a Stevenson, no info on her father other than he must have been a Beattie,
My Thomas must have been born out of wedlock as he was originally baptised Beattie one year after his birth, and there seems to have been a court decision on the paternity of him. however I know that
Bettie Stevensons father I am lead to believe was the local Laird
Anyone with information
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Could you please include links to all previous threads about these families to save helpful Rootchatters wasting time duplicating what you already know.
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Also - what timescale is involved. No birthyears or birthplaces shown in your post.
If you have them on a census - please show details
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Guessing you have seen this already? Have you been able to view the details on this?
Betty Beattie,
Bonchester Bridge End
James Rutherford, Joiner, Bonchester Bridge End
1832 1833 Jedburgh
www.oldscottish.com/sheriff-court-paternity-decrees-barr-brown.html
Monica
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Guessing you have seen this already? have you been able to view the details on this?
Betty Beattie,
Bonchester Bridge End
James Rutherford, Joiner, Bonchester Bridge End
1832 1833 Jedburgh
www.oldscottish.com/sheriff-court-paternity-decrees-barr-brown.html
Monica
I did thank you, I had seen this but lost it so thank you, as the subject of the case was my GGGrandfather Thomas Rutherford b1832, and it knocked down a wall as I could never find birth records of my GGGF nor of a marriage between Betty Beattie 1816/1901 and James, in fact James dies shortly after the 1841 census, other people on MyHeritage, Ancestry etc have Betty as a Stephenson but that was her mother also Bettie (it goes to show that always check information if possible from two or more sources) I found details of Betty taking a child Thomas to be baptised one year after he was born (putting her at just 16, James wasnt much older at 23). Yet Thomas exists as a Rutherford on every census, after the paternity case. My problems now are Thomas's grandmother Betty, Betty Stevenson whose details are sparse other than she obviously married a Beattie. reading Rulewater and its people it states that Betty's Stevenson's father was called John Stevenson and was the Laird of Kirkstyle
That document allows you to read a bit between the lines as well
Thank you and regards
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Have you made sense of this 1841 census? www.scottishindexes.com/41transcript.aspx?houseid=79003053
Was Andrew Stevenson connected to Betty's mother? With Betty showing as 25-29 in 1841, hard to say.
Did Betty go on to have another child showing as 2 months old in 1841? She would not have been aged c. 16 when she had Thomas, more like c. 18-20?
Is this Betty in 1851:
Betty Beattie 37 Formerly House Serv b. Hobkirk
Infant 10 Momths son b. Hobkirk
Address: Greenriver, Hobkirk
John Gray also showing with Thomas in 1851, both down as newphews to Andrew Stevenson. Have you managed to follow through on Andrew Stevenson to establish his parents' names? What about Betty? Have you post 1855 certs that help you in confiming her parents' names?
I could only see one James Rutherford in 1841. A joiner, aged c. 60 with family. Did he have a son by the same name?
Monica
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This could fit for Andrew www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQH4-992
A maybe for Betty, mother of Betty Beattie?
Betty STEVENSON
Parent JOHN STEVENSON
14/01/1770
Ref 790/10 62
Hobkirk
Have any of these OPR entries on Scotlands People been checked?
Monica
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This could fit for Andrew www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQH4-992
A maybe for Betty, mother of Betty Beattie?
Betty STEVENSON
Parent JOHN STEVENSON
14/01/1770
Ref 790/10 62
Hobkirk
Have any of these OPR entries on Scotlands People been checked?
Monica
Hi Monica,
I will lookat both these both look promising,
Cant understand if correct why missed these spent years trying to make sense of this, perhaps its "wood for trees" Ive spent hours in edinburgh records office and all over looking for this
John Stevenson would be the mother Betty Beattie (1), think its the two Bettie Beaties, and the confusion when there is no marriage between James and Bettie (2) also the great uncle John Stevenson.
I will look at these and really thank you for being that different pair of eyes
As long as I am still a Rutherford be devastated if not ;)
I will tell you how I get on
Thanks
Andi x
I think its taken a different pair of eyes
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Have you made sense of this 1841 census? www.scottishindexes.com/41transcript.aspx?houseid=79003053
Was Andrew Stevenson connected to Betty's mother? With Betty showing as 25-29 in 1841, hard to say.
Did Betty go on to have another child showing as 2 months old in 1841? She would not have been aged c. 16 when she had Thomas, more like c. 18-20?
Is this Betty in 1851:
Betty Beattie 37 Formerly House Serv b. Hobkirk
Infant 10 Momths son b. Hobkirk
Address: Greenriver, Hobkirk
John Gray also showing with Thomas in 1851, both down as newphews to Andrew Stevenson. Have you managed to follow through on Andrew Stevenson to establish his parents' names? What about Betty? Have you post 1855 certs that help you in confiming her parents' names?
I could only see one James Rutherford in 1841. A joiner, aged c. 60 with family. Did he have a son by the same name?
Monica
Monica
Yes, james was the son of james you found aged 60, the younger one born 14 Feb 1805 To Sep 11 1841 his father was James both are on same gravestone
Born 1777 married isabella Thomson all have graves in Hobkirk, we were at that time a family of joiners and blacksmiths
Andrew Stevenson was the great uncle of the younger Betty Bettie, thomas was born in 1832 29 Dec, And he was apprentice to Andrew Stevenson and took over the business,
Im getting through my wall I think
Andi
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From these details here https://archive.org/stream/rulewaterandits01tancgoog/rulewaterandits01tancgoog_djvu.txt:
Tom Ruth,erford, late blacksmith, Bonchester Bridge, was bom
^9th December 1832. His father was James Rutherford, and his
mother Betty Beattie. She was the daughter of Betty Stevenson,
whose father was John Stevenson, laird of Kirkstyle, and portioner
of Kirknow. Tom learned his business with Andrew Stevenson,
whom, on his death in 1871, he succeeded in the business. He
married Agnes Bums and they had a large family. She pre-
deceased him, dying in 1901. He died in Hawick in 1906. They
had issue : —
Andrew's death details from 1871 would let you confirm his parents' details. Have you viewed this? The earlier birth possibility we found for an Andrew son of George b. 1795, John Stevenson (laird) had a son George in 1760. Maybe that is the connection?
I have been reading a bit of the Rulewater and Its People. How lucky for you to have this amount of details on the extended family :)
Do you have Betty Beattie's death? This might give you some clues on her father's name.
Monica
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From these details here https://archive.org/stream/rulewaterandits01tancgoog/rulewaterandits01tancgoog_djvu.txt:
Tom Ruth,erford, late blacksmith, Bonchester Bridge, was bom
^9th December 1832. His father was James Rutherford, and his
mother Betty Beattie. She was the daughter of Betty Stevenson,
whose father was John Stevenson, laird of Kirkstyle, and portioner
of Kirknow. Tom learned his business with Andrew Stevenson,
whom, on his death in 1871, he succeeded in the business. He
married Agnes Bums and they had a large family. She pre-
deceased him, dying in 1901. He died in Hawick in 1906. They
had issue : —
Andrew's death details from 1871 would let you confirm his parents' details. Have you viewed this? The earlier birth possibility we found for an Andrew son of George b. 1795, John Stevenson (laird) had a son George in 1760. Maybe that is the connection?
I have been reading a bit of the Rulewater and Its People. How lucky for you to have this amount of details on the extended family :)
Do you have Betty Beattie's death? This might give you some clues on her father's name.
Monica
Cant find anything regarding either Bettys Beattie's death, Death details for Andrew say father was george stevenson and mother reads as Jean laidlaw as does that book, which is great, Andrew the great uncle of thomas Rutherford
The only issue now is that amazing book states Betty Stevenson is the daughter of John Stevenson the Laird,
To be Betty Stevenson to be the Grand mother of Tom, she needs to be the sister of Andrew
The plot thickens
Andi
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Hi think have it all almost sussed, this section of tree
Rulewater and its people is a massive history of my family, I knew about the book but only ever glanced at it, and thought it was going to be like a lot of books on Rutherfords.
The problem with Beattie is not quite resolved but I have managed to use the book to link into various families, Rutherford's, Beattie's, Stevenson, Amos's, Laidlaw's, and Glendinning. Just one or two sticking points but if it was easy
Yes, a really good resource
Andi
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Hi Andi
It may be that the use of the word uncle was a little general. Andrew may have been a cousin of Betty Beattie's mother or some other connected relative.
Have you considered looking at the OPR birth or christening entry on SP for Betty Stevenson, daughter of John Stevenson? Siblings mentioned in the book also show on the index on SP. It may be you get lucky and there is some detail on the register for father John that let you firm up details a little more.
Monica
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Hi Monica
Found the baptism details for Betty, 1770 "baptised a child of John Stevenson of Kirk style named Betty"
I have the baptism of George 1760 "baptised a child of John Stevenson Portitioner of of Kirkstyle a child George"
I have Andrew Stevenson as the son of George Stevenson & Laidlaw?
I think looking at dates, certs, and the book, I'm jumping to a big conclusion, but does this makes Betty Stevenson the aunt of Andrew Stevenson, so Andrew cant be the uncle but a cousin of Betty Beattie.
Am I missing something so easy here? Its still not doing it for me
opinions?
Andi R
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Monica
I think your correct I dont think Andrew is the great uncle, he is a cousin
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Hard to be more certain really, Andi :) Maybe because of the age difference, uncle seemed a better alternative.
See from a/try family trees you have made a connection for an
Agnes, daughter of George and (Jane?) Laidlaw as a possible sister to Andrew. A marriage to a George Baptie would tie in well with the George Baptie showing in the household in 1841 with Andrew that we had www.scottishindexes.com/41transcript.aspx?houseid=79003053
I can't easily see anything for Betty Beattie after her likely 1851 census entry. Have you got your Thomas' marriage cert? Does it show mother as deceased or alive then?
Monica
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Ah...just reading a little more from that family bible. We mentioned George and wife Jane Laidlaw and their issue:
318 RULEWATER AND ITS PEOPLE
....George Stevenson,^ John''s eldest son, bom
in 1760, served his time in the blacksmith's shop with his father.
He married Jane Laidlaw, and by her had two sons and three
daughters. Of the daughters Agnes married Alexander Baptie,
and Jenny became Mrs. Amos at Dovesford in 1816. John, the
eldest son, died in 18^ ; and Andrew, the other brother, bom in
1795, succeeded him as blacksmith at Bonchester Bridge. Bom
and bred there, he worked as smith for many a day. He could
neither read nor write, his education at the parish school being
retarded by an impediment in his speech. To return to the
Baptie connection : — Alexander Baptie, who married Agnes
Stevenson, enlisted in the King^s Dragoon Guards and was at the
battle of Waterloo. At the close of the war he was discharged
on a small pension, and, being well educated, he obtained the post
'of schoolmaster at Falstone-on-Tyne. In this situation he
remained for some years. He went under the name of *01d
Sandy.** He had a son George who was a blacksmith to trade.
For some time he worked and assisted his uncle Andrew at the
Bridge. Greorge lived a long life, and was for many years in the
•employment of Mr. Veitch of Inchbonny. One of the thin^ he
most valued was his father^s Waterloo medal, which at his death
he left to the Jedburgh museum....
Link as before, https://archive.org/stream/rulewaterandits01tancgoog/rulewaterandits01tancgoog_djvu.txt
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Monica
Unfortunately Agnes and Thomas were married in 1853, there were no statutory records till 1855, so no wedding certificate just 2 sets of banns and parish records. The only information is the death cert of thomas which states his mother as Beattie but no death date where I get 1901 from I dont know
This is a thing which annoys me, SP states record of marriage but in reality it tends to be banns of marriage
Andi, I am so pleased I bought a copy of that "bible"