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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: verezzi on Tuesday 11 August 20 14:55 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I was wondering if anyone might help trace some of my family- I am based in England and not great with tracing people in Australia, any help would be much appreciated.
I have the following three Woodcocks- Hannah Woodcock (widow born 1845 in Barnsley, maiden name Denton) and her two children Arthur (born 1875 at Greenhead near Sheffield) and Gertrude (born 1978 Ecclesfield near Sheffield) I would be interested in what became of any of the three if anyone can help, Hannah is my 2X great grandma.
They came to Australia on the Potosi in 1886, after that, I have no clue, any help would be fab if anyone can, thanks for reading,
Dan
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Here is a link to the passenger list, in the right hand column it shows they went to Sydney.
https://tinyurl.com/yya2az43
So checked on the NSW BMD and there is an Arthur Woodcock who died in 1955 at Ashfield. Parents are listed as Hannah and John. (Was John his fathers name? If so, then this may be your Arthur.
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/result?19
Then checked the Ryderson index (list of death notices in newspapers) for the above death of Arthur in 1955 and there is a listing for Arthur stating he was 81 years. This would calculate to a birth year of approx 1874. So, this could be yours if the parents names mentioned are correct.
http://ryersonindex.org/search.php
If you think this may be yours, you could purchase the certificate as it should have more info like marriages, birth places, children etc.
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Hello,
That is fantastic thank you, yes Hannah and John are the parents so this will be Arthur at least accounted for, that’s great. i am a little at sea with Australian records and resorted to just googling in vain! Brilliant to think I have some family over there!
Many thanks and much appreciated,
Dan
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Hi Dan,
Here is the death notice and funeral notice for Arthur WOODCOCK (from SMH 19 and 20 April 1955)
Ros
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There is a probate packet at NSW archives https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/ for Arthur WOODCOCK. I can photograph this for you the next time I am there. It *should* have a death cert, a will and more details of family members.
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/ADLIB_RNSW111729781
Ros
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Arthur's eldest son was Clifton Arthur WOODCOCK.
From NSW BDM
Death 1959
Clifton Arthur WOODCOCK, father Arthur, mother Mary Ann, at Muswellbrook
Here is his WW2 service summary https://nominal-rolls.dva.gov.au/veteran?id=307816&c=WW2
Ros
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Another son of Arthur was Jack Owen WOODCOCK
From NSW BDM
Death 1956 Jack Owen WOODCOCK, father Arthur, mother Mary Ann, at Asfield
Here is his death notice (from SMH 17 Dec 1956)
Ros
adding : There is a probate packet for Jack Owen WOODCOCK at archives https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/ADLIB_RNSW111735446
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This is probably Arthur's third son's WW2 service summary, naming Arthur as NOK
https://nominal-rolls.dva.gov.au/veteran?id=168438&c=WW2
Ros
adding : and with same initials as on Arthur's funeral notice
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Just looking at the possibility that Hannah married William DUCKER in 1887
Marriage 1887 William DUCKER and Anna WOODCOCK at Petersham
Death 1933 Hannah DUCKER, father William, mother _ , age 90 years
Obit http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article167860306
Memoriam http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article166955187
Obit says she came to Australia 47 years ago and would have been 91 in October. She had been living with her daughter Mrs Goodwin. Memoriam says she had a son and daughter
But the grandchildren on memoriam don't seem to match and her age is a little out so I am ruling this now.
Ros
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The children's marriages:
2737/1897
WOODCOOK, ARTHUR
OWEN, MARY A
ASHFIELD
1785/1897
GOODWIN, GEORGE
WOODCOOK, GERTRUDE
PETERSHAM
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search
i am a little at sea with Australian records and resorted to just googling in vain!
...or you could look at the resources board.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/australia-resources-offers/
Debra :)
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30268/1957 GOODWIN Gertrude 8O YRS NORTH SYDNEY NORTH SYDNEY
Gertrude’s death and funeral notices, type 9 into small white box:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=lL5f5cZgq8MC&dat=19571104&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
Children:
18912/1898 Alfred Oswald - married 10599/1919 BURKE Ivy M - death 29581/1960
Death and funeral notices, 1st page: https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=lL5f5cZgq8MC&dat=19601108&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
Headstone photo: https://austcemindex.com/inscription?id=7771485#images
Children’s deaths:
14162/1932 GOODWIN Neville A
GOODWIN Neville (Bobbie) Other 23 July 1932 Death 6 at Khandala Private Hospital, Gosford Gosford Times and Wyong District Advocate 28 July 1932
Write up about death includes names of aunts and uncles, last column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article167856725
GOODWIN Royce Alfred Death notice 26 Oct 2009 Death 85 late of Elizabeth Bay Central Coast Express Advocate 30 Oct 2009
10219/1900 Eric Stanley - mother’s name recorded a Certrude - married 2759/1917 ALLAN Margaret M - death 38/1978
I think this is his wife’s death: 31223/1958 GOODWIN Margaret McBlane parents DAVID and MAUD MARY NEWCASTLE, because her birth 32992/1897 ALLAN Margaret McB parents as per death.
Newcastle Memorial Park: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/193492304/margaret-goodwin
Her mother: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/193431736/maud-mary-allan
Son:
10911/1917 William S - married 5381/1940 ENGLISH Mavis Eileen - died 2010
GOODWIN William Stanley (Bill) Funeral notice 24 Oct 2010 Death 93 late of Elermore Vale, formerly of Waratah Newcastle Herald 30 Oct 2010
Wife’s death: 105278/1988 GOODWIN Mavis Eileen
Newcastle Memorial Park: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/193492261/mavis-goodwin
12078/1902 Dulcie G - possible marriage 3762/1925 EATON Alfred J W - possible death: EATON Dulcie Gwendoline Funeral notice 19 Oct 1992 Funeral late of Amarina Nursing Home, formerly of Stockton, NSW Courier Mail (Brisbane) 17 Oct 1992
Jamjar
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Just looking at the possibility that Hannah married William DUCKER in 1887
Marriage 1887 William DUCKER and Anna WOODCOCK at Petersham
Death 1933 Hannah DUCKER, father William, mother _ , age 90 years
Obit http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article167860306
Memoriam http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article166955187
Obit says she came to Australia 47 years ago and would have been 91 in October. She had been living with her daughter Mrs Goodwin. Memoriam says she had a son and daughter
But the grandchildren on memoriam don't seem to match and her age is a little out so I am ruling this now.
Ros
Please explain more about this "ruling" authority.
JM.
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It's an expression JM :) https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/rule-out
But yes I was too quick to rule it out as it looks very probable now. The grandchildren mention in the memoriam are probably Gertrude's children.
Ros
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The grandchildren mentioned in the memoriam for DUCKER, are the children of the daughter Gertrude.
Jamjar
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It's an expression JM :) https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/rule-out
But yes I was too quick to rule it out as it looks very probable now. The grandchildren mention in the memoriam are probably Gertrude's children.
Ros
Ros,
I am not familiar with the
expression you used ... you wrote "I am ruling this now" That expression is not at the link you provided, but I now gather that you may have mis-typed, as you are now explaining about ruling it out.
JM
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Is this your family?
Census England 1881 at Prince of Wales Wortley Ecclesfield Yorkshire
WOODCOCK Hannah 38y head widow b. Barnsley Yorkshire
WOODCOCK Walter 15y son engine fitter b. Ecclesfield
WOODCOCK Tom 13y son scholar b. Ecclesfield
WOODCOCK Arthur 6y son b. Ecclesfield
WOODCOCK Annie Elizabeth 18y dau machinist b. Ecclesfield
WOODCOCK Gertrude 3y dau b. Ecclesfield
Is this your Tom?
BDM NSW death
21591 / 1935 WOODCOCK Tom parents John / Anna @ Gosford
I see Tom WOODCOCK in Gosford area....1903 ish.......gardener...no obvious wife, children but when he dies there is someone around who knows him?
"...this will be Arthur at least accounted for..."
Did any of Hannah's children remain in England?. Can you identify them.....plus marriage, death
etc....so we know who to look for in Australia.
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Thanks Jamjar :)
JM, I had to dash off to RNSH and thought I'd post what I had found with a caveat - like I'm doubting this now. It is a little surprising that the memoriam was from the son and daughter and then only mention Gertrude's children as her grandchildren - no mention of Arthur's children. But I didn't have time to do any further research then..
Ros
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Ancestry Sands Directory NSW
1888
DUCKER William gardener Constitution Rd Petersham
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Tom WOODCOCK:
Death mention, 2nd column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article166943551
Woodcock Tom 27 Nov 1935 Point Clare NSW Mth 1 4, 15
Ducker Hannah 1843? 14 Aug 1933 90 dau/William Point Clare NSW Mth 1 4, 16
I’d say it’s a good chance that it is Hannah’s son.
Jamjar
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Son, Walter?
15215/1961 WOODCOCK Walter parents JOHN and ANNIE at MANLY
WOODCOCK Walter Death notice 29May 1961 Death 84 late of Palm Beach Sydney Morning Herald 30 May 1961
Jamjar
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The passenger list, for those without Ancestry: http://marinersandships.com.au/1886/05/025pot.htm
Jamjar
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Hello,
I have just woken up and found all this and it is amazing, thank you everyone. I had tried looking on findmypast- where I found the emigration document- and on the resources on here but couldn't find anything definite- most of what I found I see now was for Arthur's son Clifton Arthur Woodcock.
Using the information you all provided, I have found that Tom came over first the year before- I thought it was odd that Hannah upped and left with 4 small children. He came over 1885 on the Australasia and worked as a gardiner in an orchard! Interestingly, William Ducker is on the same ship as Tom.
Walter definitely didn't come over, he is my great granddad and moved to the North of England with one of his friends for work, the two of them married sisters (not their own) up there and settled. There are also some daughters who had married and remained in the Sheffield area.
Again, a massive thank you, you have really brought to life a brick wall in my research!
Dan
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Births:
9945/1898 Clifton Arthur - married 13547/1922 PETERSON Hedwig and 19837/1943 HATTON/MCCABE Alma Grace - died 16115/1959
Wedding photo, last column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article118823393
2nd wife’s death: 100247/1976 WOODCOCK Alma Grace parents SIDNEY ROBERT and ADA
Child’s death:
22868/1958 WOODCOCK Sandra Robin parents CLIFTON ARTHUR and ALMA GRACE at MUSWELLBROOK
Muswellbrook Cemetery headstone photos:
Clifton: https://billiongraves.com/grave/C-A-WOODCOCK/14322880
Alma: https://billiongraves.com/grave/ALMA-GRACE-WOODCOCK/14105204
Sandra: https://billiongraves.com/grave/SANDRA-WOODCOCK/14335666
23569/1902 Edward Roy - I can’t see a marriage, but:
Death, NSW: 3801/1947 WOODCOCKS Stillborn parents EDWARD ROY and ELSIE JEAN
Death, WA:
WOODCOCK Elsie Jean Death notice 13 Apr 1990 Death 76 late of Hamersley WA, formerly of Hurlstone Park Sydney Morning Herald 17 Apr 1990
KARRAKATTA CEMETERY - LAWN Area K Section 0445
First Name: EDWARD ROY
Last Name:WOODCOCK
Karrakatta Cremation
Aged: 79
Date of Death: 21-2-1982
First Name: ELSIE JEAN
Last Name: WOODCOCK
Karrakatta Burial
Aged: 76
Date of Death: 13-4-1990
Suburb: HAMERSLEY
Ashes Request: FAMILY GRAVE AT KARRAKATTA CEMETERY
Grantee: JENNIFER ANN SELLS
28787/1907 Jack Owen - married 5936/1934 GRANT Olive G - died 28366/1956 Jack Owen
Jamjar
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Thank you for this, much appreciated, I am just trying to pull all this together on my Ancestry tree and it is looking really great.
I have found William Ducker died 1897 and findmypast has his will which is a nice thing to have.
Hannah is buried next to Tom at Point Clare Cemetery. Does anyone know if the fact there isn't a photo means there isn't a headstone or just that it hasn't been photographed yet? https://austcemindex.com/inscription?id=15594422
Many thanks,
Dan
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Usually, no photo means no headstone.
I’ve added to reply #22 and will do so if I can find anything else.
J.
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Thank you, it has been really great to build up a picture of this lost family, it has been a niggle for years and is my gran's side so quite important for us. The will was interesting, he willed Hannah some land, it hadn't occurred to me that Ducker's Hill where she died was named after them!
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I found this lovely article about Tom's death in 1935, a popular cricketer- his long dead father was a cricketer too.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/166955306?searchTerm=woodcock
Just saw the photo you found of Clifton also- fantastic!
The headstones are great to see too- poor Sandra's says 'Accidentally killed' aged 15. Horrible,had a look in Trove but nothing.
Thanks for all the help everyone this has made my day,
Dan
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Hi Dan,
Here is the death notice and funeral notice for Arthur WOODCOCK (from SMH 19 and 20 April 1955)
Ros
His wife’s death notice, 3rd column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article18460802
Her funeral notice, 5th column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article18460739
26677/1954 WOODCOCK Mary Ann parents RICHARD HENRY and JEMIMA at ASHFIELD
Jamjar
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Ancestry Sands Directory NSW
1888
DUCKER William gardener Constitution Rd Petersham
His death: 1201/1897 DUCKER William parents ROBERT and MARGARET at GOSFORD
His probate, 5th column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article238421204
Possibly his family:
Mar 1840 Walsingham 13 565
DUCKER Robert
HENDRY Margaret
Deaths:
DUCKER, MARGARET 68
GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in DOCKING Volume 04B Page 205
DUCKER, ROBERT 90
GRO Reference: 1908 D Quarter in WORTLEY Volume 09C Page 199
1851: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGXH-DWH
1861: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7N7-WBJ
1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFXC-VP4
1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q278-6SD9
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7FRD-J6Z
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X955-X4J
I can’t see William’s birth. I wonder if he is Robert?
DUCKER, ROBERT mmn HINDRY
GRO Reference: 1845 J Quarter in WALSINGHAM UNION Volume 13 Page 352
DUCKER, EMMANUEL mmn HENDRY
GRO Reference: 1847 M Quarter in WALSINGHAM UNION Volume 13 Page 356
Marriages:
Dec 1871 Docking 4b 920
DUCKER Emanuel
EDWARDS Harriett Jane
Dec 1888 Christchurch 2b 1283
DUCKER Emanuel
EDWARDS Sarah A
Deaths:
DUCKER, HARRIET 38
GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in WORTLEY Volume 09C Page 177
DUCKER, EMMANUEL 57
GRO Reference: 1905 M Quarter in WORTLEY Volume 09C Page 187
1881, wrongly named Samuel: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Y-HJT6
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7FRQ-6MM
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X955-DBD
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWKQ-8R8
DUCKER, BATHSHEBA mmn HENDRY
GRO Reference: 1850 S Quarter in WALSINGHAM UNION Volume 13 Page 333
Married: Mar 1872 Wortley 9c 207
MARTIN Henry Thomas
DUCKER Bathsheba
Deaths:
MARTIN, HENRY THOMAS 52
GRO Reference: 1898 S Quarter in WORTLEY Volume 09C Page 199
MARTIN, BATHSHEBA 81
GRO Reference: 1929 D Quarter in PLYMOUTH Volume 05B Page 293
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWKQ-V9Z
Children:
MARTIN, MARGARET ANN mmn DUCKER
GRO Reference: 1873 D Quarter in WORTLEY Volume 09C Page 253
Married:
Mar 1902 Doncaster 9c 1115
SMALLWOOD Henry Witter
MARTIN Margaret Ann
Death:
SMALLWOOD, HENRY WITTER 73
GRO Reference: 1946 D Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 02D Page 265
MARTIN, ROBERT HENRY mmn DUCKER
GRO Reference: 1872 D Quarter in WORTLEY Volume 09C Page 248
MARTIN, EMMANUEL JAMES WILLIAM mmn DUCKER
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in WORTLEY Volume 09C Page 253
MARTIN, GRACE JEMIMA mmn DUCKER
GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in WORTLEY Volume 09C Page 263
William married in 1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFXC-RF9
His wife and child, 1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFXC-RFS
Marriage:
Dec 1866 Docking 4b 888
DUCKER William
BAILEY Sarah
Children:
DUCKER, WILLIAM ROBERT mmn BAILEY
GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in OF DOCKING Volume 04B Page 325
Christening: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939F-RDGS-L?i=311&cc=1823613&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AJ7NT-RQR
DUCKER, ERNEST HERBERT mmn BAILEY
GRO Reference: 1873 J Quarter in WORTLEY Volume 09C Page 245
Possible death in INDIA, 3 Jan 1898: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGGT-D66
DUCKER, ELLEN CHARLOTTE mmn BAILEY
GRO Reference: 1876 J Quarter in WORTLEY Volume 09C Page 280
Christening: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939F-R6X2-D?i=72&cc=1823613
Marriage: Mar 1896 Docking 4b 439
BIRCHAM Walter
DUCKER Ellen Charlotte
Marriage: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NFSX-69T
Deaths:
BIRCHAM, WALTER 42
GRO Reference: 1910 D Quarter in MIDDLESBROUGH Volume 09D Page 356
BIRCHAM ELLEN C 84
Jun 1960 Middlesbro' 1b 723
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4WBN-TPZ
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSSW-FX2
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7PT-G4W
Children:
BIRCHAM, ERNEST CHARLES mmn DUCKER
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in DOCKING Volume 04B Page 307
BIRCHAM, OLIVE mmn DUCKER
GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in DOCKING Volume 04B Page 302
BIRCHAM, ETHEL mmn DUCKER
GRO Reference: 1907 S Quarter in MIDDLESBROUGH Volume 09D Page 558
1881, William with married sister: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Y-HKT2
1881, his children with BAILEY grandparents: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q278-D1J4
Jamjar
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Hello,
Thank you again, this was my job for today, tracking his kids and seeing if any came over too.
Much appreciated for everyone who has helped me,
Dam
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Something odd happened here. ;D
Ah, the ‘modify’ ability has passed and I hit ‘quote’ by mistake.
Have added to Duckers, reply #28.
MARTIN, GRACE JEMIMA mmn DUCKER
GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in WORTLEY Volume 09C Page 263
Death:
MARTIN, GRACE JEMIMA 53
GRO Reference: 1940 M Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 1072
Death:
BIRCHAM Ernest Charles 8 May 1918
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/12746287
Marriage:
Dec 1924 Middlesbro' 9d 1239
WALKER John W
BIRCHAM Olive
Possible death:
WALKER, OLIVE 30
GRO Reference: 1929 M Quarter in MIDDLESBROUGH Volume 09D Page 947
Marriage:
Dec 1924 Middlesbro' 9d 1204
HALL William
BIRCHAM Ethel
I can’t see that anyone other than William Snr came over. Pity he deserted his children.
Jamjar
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Thank you, this has all been amazing!
Dan