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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Flemming on Friday 14 August 20 16:54 BST (UK)
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Maud Roebuck Hattersley married Harry Nadin in 1899 in Sheffield. They had five children before Maud died in 1907 (age 27, YOB 1880). Mother’s maiden name for these children is recorded as Roebuck, not Hattersley.
Her marriage in 1899 (as Maud Roebuck Hattersley) says her father is Edward James Hattersley, a steel manufacturer. There is a bp for Maud Roebuck Hattersley to Edward James Hattersley and Caroline in Bolton-le-Moors on 6.6.1880.
The issue is I can’t find a birth registration for Maud, nor a marriage for her parents, nor an entry for Maud in censuses prior to 1901 (when she is recorded as Maud Nadin age 20 born in Sheffield).
There is a marriage for Edward James Hattersley to Ada Augusta Fox in 1871 in Sheffield, as well as several children for this couple (with mmn Fox). in 1911, the couple are in Sheffield and he is recorded as a steel manufacturer.
I’m wondering if Maud was born of an extra-marital affair between Edward James Hattersley and Caroline (possible surname Roebuck) but struggling to prove it.
Any other ideas most welcome.
Thanks, Flemming.
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On the GRO, there is a birth for a Maud Elizabeth Roebuck, Barnsley, S Q. 1879, MMN Hewitt
She died the same year.
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Bearing in mind where her baptism was in 1880 this looks like her in 1891: Maude Roebuck 10, lodger with a James and Mary A Ward in Sheffield - her birthplace shown as Bolton, Lancs. So, as no doubt raised in Sheffield, understandable why she put her birthplace as Sheffield in 1901.
However, cannot see a likely birth entry for her nor can I find a likely Caroline Roebuck for her mother.
Annette
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Thanks both, and Maude in the 1891 census looks right. Interestingly, there is a dr for Caroline Roebuck in Q2 1881 Sheffield but age 61 years according to FreeBMD, although FS has this as 64 years. Sheffield Indexers has the burial record showing age 64 years, widow of John Roebuck. Perhaps one to dig into (no pun intended).
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Possible Caroline Roebuck br 1860 Rotherham, and then could be her in the 1881 census as 'C Roebuck' age 20, born Sheffield, as a boarder at the Victoria Hotel in North Meols. Can't find her after this.
Another Caroline Roebuck br 1852 Wortley but looks to have married George Hinchcliffe in 1870 Wortley, although haven't found her in the 1881 census.
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Another Caroline Roebuck br 1852 Wortley but looks to have married George Hinchcliffe in 1870 Wortley, although haven't found her in the 1881 census.
This one remarried to Henry Bailey in 1877 and is Caroline Bailey in 1881: RG11/4614/54/64.
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Theres a Maud Nadin birth reg Sheffield 1880 (mmn Roberts). She may have died in Sheffield in 1907 aged 27.
Likely parents Frederick Nadin and Mary Ann Roberts.
Possibly the 1901 census lady?
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Possible Caroline Roebuck br 1860 Rotherham, and then could be her in the 1881 census as 'C Roebuck' age 20, born Sheffield, as a boarder at the Victoria Hotel in North Meols. Can't find her after this.
C Roebuck in 1881 may be Clara Roebuck b Sheffield, 1 in 1861 and 11 in 1871.
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On the marriage record on findmypast.co.uk,
witnesses are Alfred Bacon and Clara Ellis.
Do you know if they are of any relation to the Nadin family? or possibly they may be to do with the Hattersleys/Roebucks
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Theres a Maud Nadin birth reg Sheffield 1880 (mmn Roberts). She may have died in Sheffield in 1907 aged 27.
Likely parents Frederick Nadin and Mary Ann Roberts.
Possibly the 1901 census lady?
Maud Nadin in the 1901 census is recorded as Harry Nadin's wife (daughter-in-law of Harry's mother Harriet), and they also have daughter Maud, age 1. There's a marriage for Harry Nadin to Annie Elizabeth Bamford in 1910 in Sheffield which also fits with his first wife dying in 1907 - and this couple are in the 1911 census with daughter Maud.
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Possible Caroline Roebuck br 1860 Rotherham, and then could be her in the 1881 census as 'C Roebuck' age 20, born Sheffield, as a boarder at the Victoria Hotel in North Meols. Can't find her after this.
C Roebuck in 1881 may be Clara Roebuck b Sheffield, 1 in 1861 and 11 in 1871.
True, and there's also Catherine Roebuck br Q1 1860 Sheffield, and quite a few marriages for 'C* Roebuck' after 1881. Mystery ???
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Catherine Roebuck birth reg Mar qtr 1860 Sheffield was living in Manchester by 1861, and may be the 4 yr old Catherine Roebuck who died in Withington workhouse on 20 November 1864.
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On the marriage record on findmypast.co.uk,
witnesses are Alfred Bacon and Clara Ellis.
Do you know if they are of any relation to the Nadin family? or possibly they may be to do with the Hattersleys/Roebucks
It seems Alfred and Clara married the same year (1899) in Sheffield. In 1901, he's recorded as 23 (born 1878) and she's recorded as 19 (born 1882). Seems to be a young marriage but can't find a parish record for it. They're similar ages to Harry and Maud, so perhaps they were friends. I've found possible fits for Alfred and Clara in pre-marriage censuses and there doesn't appear to be an obvious link with Harry/Maud in those records.
Alfred and Clara were doing well by 1911 - one daughter and two servants.
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I see that a Caroline Roebuck, 20, “wife” (but no sign of husband) sailed from Liverpool to Philadelphia arriving on 5 July 1880. She had with her an infant, Maria Roebuck, but I can’t easily see a birth for her.
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I see that a Caroline Roebuck, 20, “wife” (but no sign of husband) sailed from Liverpool to Philadelphia arriving on 5 July 1880. She had with her an infant, Maria Roebuck, but I can’t easily see a birth for her.
That's interesting. Member trees on Ancestry have Caroline (born 1860 Rotherham) recorded as Carrie and/or Cynthia, and marrying Frederick Guite in 1883 in Connecticut. The couple seemed to have lots of children, but no mention of Maria (or Maud), although it shows Caroline had a sister called Maria.
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Hmmm. Could Maria be Maud, and have made her way back (been sent back) to England by 1891?
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Yes, I'm wondering that as well. Perhaps new husband wouldn't take the child on?
Some of the Ancestry trees do have Caroline's coupling with Edward Hattersley, and then marriage in the US to Frederick Guite, but others seem to ignore it altogether. One of them also has the entry for 'C Roebuck' in Meols in 1881 pinned to Caroline.
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Unfortunately the timing of the voyage meant that both the 1880 US and 1881 UK censuses were missed.
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Of course, so C Roebuck in Meols in 1881 couldn't have been her - unless she came back with Maria/Maud?
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I do think Clara is the best candidate for the 1881 North Meols finding. Even if Caroline had still been in the country, she was born in Rotherham rather than Sheffield.
Carrie Roebuck Guite b 9 March 1860 died 13 April 1930 per Findagrave - buried at Fairview Cemetery, New Britain, Hartford, Connecticut.
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It would be good to have some coherent theory as to how and why Maud ended up with the Wards in Sheffield in 1891. Given that James Ward was apparently an employee of the Borussia Steel Works in 1881 - which was owned by or connected with Edward J Hattersley - perhaps Maud(e) was placed with the Wards by her natural father?
Wards at the Borussia Steel Works in 1881: RG11/4646/80/12
Links to Edward James Hattersley: www.gracesguide.co.uk/Edward_J._Hattersley_and_Co
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It sounds likely. He later become a Methodist minister so perhaps this was part of his repentance. I'll have another dig around his background.
Ref the 9 March 1860 DOB for Caroline on FAG, I wonder if it tallies with the birth registration for Caroline who was born in Rotherham - which was in Q2 1860, so does fit, although she was bp in April 1862 Bishop Auckland with the transcript saying she was born in 1859. There doesn't seem to be an image on-line to verify this but, if the record says 'age 2 years', that would make YOB 1860, not 1859 - unless a '2' has been mistranscribed as a '3'.
Just found landing card for Maria Roebuck on 5.7.1880 in Philadelphia - the final digit looks like '8' and has been transcribed as such. So she did actually make it to the US.
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The Wards were in Pea Croft in 1891, and Sheffield Indexers shows Edward James Hattersley had a shop there in 1875-1876 (recorded in Sheffield Burgess Rolls).
There are several marriages for James Ward to Mary A* [someone] in Sheffield and surrounding areas although none of the bride's surnames ring a bell (although she may have been a widow).
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I thought the Dec qtr 1876 marriage of James Ward and (possibly) Mary Ann Siddall in Sheffield looked likely. He had a previous marriage and was a widower in 1871. I haven’t traced her before this.
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Caroline Roebuck b Rotherham (actually Wath upon Dearne) was 1 in 1861 and 11 in 1871, so consistent with a 9 March 1860 birthdate.
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Caroline Roebuck b Rotherham (actually Wath upon Dearne) was 1 in 1861 and 11 in 1871, so consistent with a 9 March 1860 birthdate.
I suppose I'm always suspicious unless I've seen the actual record, especially when another one might contradict it.
I thought the Dec qtr 1876 marriage of James Ward and (possibly) Mary Ann Siddall in Sheffield looked likely. He had a previous marriage and was a widower in 1871. I haven’t traced her before this.
I did find Mary Ann Siddall with husband William and son Edward in 1871, but no obvious marriage for the couple or a birth for Edward. I wonder if the connection is simply that James Ward may have been a Methodist church member who Edward Hattersley trusted. I'd still like to know how/when Maria/Maud got back from the US. I did wonder if they were two separate children, one who stayed, one who went - but there's only one bp and no apparent br for either.
Thanks for your help with all this - it's much appreciated.