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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Leicestershire => England => Leicestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: malevu on Wednesday 19 August 20 10:25 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm an Aussie poster born in Nottingham with ancestors from Derbyshire and Leicestershire. All my research has been done online and I have no present family contacts to help me with my research that I am aware of.
Accordingly, I would be most appreciative if someone was able to check a marriage certificate for me.
For all of the 1700s and the first half of the 1800's it seems my forebears hailed from Leicestershire.
I have many relatives in towns like Bagworth, Heather, Measham, Twycross, Slawston, Hallaton, Lubenham and Great Bowden to name just a few.
My research shows my Great great great grandmother was Ann(e) Miles, born in Heather in 1798/9. Birth records indicate that her parents were Thomas and Elizabeth from Heather. However, I have for a long time been suspicious that her true parents were William and Sarah Miles. They were also from Heather and were not married at the time of Ann's birth but were to be married shortly after her birth.
I have tried to find any marriage details involving Ann in the hope that it might shed some light on her actual father. Recently I have come across a marriage in 1838 in Market Bosworth of Ann Miles/Henry Bonsall.
I would be greatly appreciative if someone with access could look up their marriage certificate and let me know who is recorded as Ann's father.
I realise that I could purchase the marriage certificate myself, as I have done with many others. However, as I can't be certain that the record is even the Ann Miles I'm looking for I was hoping to save an unnecessary expense.
If anyone could help by checking the marriage record I would be most appreciative. The reference numbers are Year - 1838, Folio 15, Line No. 105, District - Market Bosworth, Quarter - July/Sept
Ann Miles / Henry Bonsall.
Many thanks,
Paul
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I don’t see an image on line
But PRs can be viewed at an LDS library. Are they open in Australia?
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/320697?availability=Family%20History%20Library
but I can’t help thinking Ann may have been a widow as in 1841
There are 3 sons, 15, 10 & 8, named Miles Bonsall.
Either that or they finally decided to marry
Rounded ages are
Ann 40
George 50
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQYL-HMH
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Nothing showing on the Leicestershire marriage images on FindMyPast.
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The censuses give her birth as Polesworth, Warwickshire. Although 1841-51 give her birth as 1801, in 1861 it was 1811.
There was an Ann Miles, daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth baptised in Polesworth on 23rd September 1810. It gives her birth but not very clear - possibly 18th September.
David
P.S. Just found some trees which has Ann's husband as Francis Bates.
Also, Ann is with her son, James, in 1871, birth in Polesworth 1806
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She is born IN county , ie Leicestershire, in the 1841.
But yes, Polesworth 1851.
That rules her out doesn’t it.
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Something strange with her age;
ANN Miles christened Market Bosworth, Leicestershire
HENRY 8 Feb 1825
ELIZA 11 Jun 1827
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I think Ann was an inmate at St Josephs Home For Aged Persons, Church Lane, Kings Norton, Birmingham, in 1891.
This time she was born 1801 in Leicester. She was buried in Birmingham, Witton Cemetery, in 1884, age 82.
Birth birth place was Leicestershire twice and Polesworth three times. I can't find any definite leads on her parentage, so the certificate may be the only option.
David
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Many thanks for all your prompt replies. All of them have given me more food for thought and I am very appreciative that you took the time to check out my enquiry.
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The censuses give her birth as Polesworth, Warwickshire. Although 1841-51 give her birth as 1801, in 1861 it was 1811.
There was an Ann Miles, daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth baptised in Polesworth on 23rd September 1810. It gives her birth but not very clear - possibly 18th September.
David
P.S. Just found some trees which has Ann's husband as Francis Bates.
Also, Ann is with her son, James, in 1871, birth in Polesworth 1806
This has my interest. Ann's cousin (also Ann) was married in 1828 in Church Gresley to an Abraham Bates. Could you point me in the direction of the source of the tree you referred to. Thx.
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I don’t see an image on line
But PRs can be viewed at an LDS library. Are they open in Australia?
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/320697?availability=Family%20History%20Library
but I can’t help thinking Ann may have been a widow as in 1841
There are 3 sons, 15, 10 & 8, named Miles Bonsall.
Either that or they finally decided to marry
Rounded ages are
Ann 40
George 50
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQYL-HMH
I don't believe the LDS are open.
I was not sure what to make of the names of the children as I had difficulty finding their birth records under either surname. Is it your understanding that they would be Ann Miles children from a previous marriage. Thx.
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Well, it’s what I thought. They can’t be George’s from a previous marriage, I wouldn’t have thought. Because then they wouldn’t have Miles as a Forename. (Unless that’s wife was also a Miles)
If they had been married before 1822, then I would have assumed it was a case of giving sons mother’s maiden name as a forename
I imagined the census taker asking the names of the sons after asking the names of the parents.
Answer James Miles, etc so they became James Miles Bonsall etc.
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Some of this came up last year in
Where are George & Mary Ann [nee WAIN] MILES in 1861
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812005.0
I found a possible baptism of Henry
There are a couple of baptisms in Market Bosworth to Ann Miles
Henry, 8 February 1825
Eliza, 11 June 1827
But so far no George
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Then JJen got cracking
However I wonder if this is George on the 1841 -
Henry Bonsell 50
Ann Bonsell 40
Henry Miles Bonsell 15
George Miles Bonsell 10
James Miles Bonsell 8
Perhaps Ann is the mother and remarried a 'Bonsell'.
George's son Wiliam was baptised William Bonsir Miles.
There's a marriage of an Ann Miles -
q3 1838 Market Bosworth
Vol 15 Page 213
On the same page is Henry Bonsall
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Then more Chatters pitched in!
By 1851 Ann Bonsell (50 b Polesworth) is a widowed charwoman in Lichfield St, Market Bosworth, and has son James Bonsell, 18 with her. In a separate household at the same address is (presumably) her son Henry Miles, 26, with wife Susannah 23 and son Henry 10mo.
HO107/2083/120/25.
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Well, thank goodness for long memories I say!
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On the other hand, I don't think that thread was about the origins of Ann :)
So, yes, the marriage cert may be needed to confirm her father's name?
John
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Re the marriage of Ann Miles to Francis Bates. This was on 21st August 1834 in Polesworth. Thomas Miles was a witness.
The Church Gresley one, on 26 May 1828, is only a transcription with no witness names.
The trees are on Ancestry.
Ann, the wife of Abraham Bates was born 1808 in Oakthorpe, Derbyshire, but none have her parents.
Ann, the wife of Francis Bates, was born in Polesworth, the daughter of Thomas Miles and Elizabeth Hudson, although some have Elizabeth Bentley.
Several have Ann who married Henry Bonsall, but none have her parents.
David
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Some trees have Ann Miles as nee Atkins.
She married Thomas Miles in Polesworth on 21st September 1820 and had four children - Mary, baptised in Polesworth in 1820, followed by Henry, George and James.
Ann Atkins was baptised in Polesworth on 26th September 1802, the daughter of William and Hannah.
Or, Ann Atkins baptised in Polesworth on 6th November 1797, the daughter of James and Sarah.
The trees may be wrong but only the certificate will have the answer.
David
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Again thank you everyone for your help. It's a lot to digest and it looks like the marriage cert is the only way to clear it up.
Just to clarify the main point from my original post. The full story is long in the telling but the main issue is as follows.
My GGG grandmother was Ann Miles who as a single mum had my GG grandfather Thomas in 1824 in Lincolnshire. The birth record for Thomas does not record a father. It seems that some of the Miles clan had travelled from the Heather/Measham area to work at the new, ill-fated coal mine at Woodhall. With the mines closure they returned to the Bagworth area where Thomas is shown on the 1841 census living with William (60) and Sarah Miles (58). Further, Thomas was married in 1845 in Bagworth and he recorded William Miles as his father (possibly grandfather). I have the certificate.
So my research has been about finding out who his mother, Anne was. I'm fairly confident that Anne Miles, born in Heather around 1798 is my GGG grandmother. Her birth record indicates that Thomas and Elizabeth are her parents but I have long suspected that William Miles and Sarah Tatlow who married in Heather in 1799 might be in fact Anne's parents. I believe that William was the nephew of the Thomas shown as the father on Anne's birth record.
Hence my desire to find information about Ann Miles after the birth of Thomas in 1824 in Lincolnshire. If she was later married, especially after 1837, I was hoping that her wedding cert might shed some light on her father. Accordingly, I was hoping the Anne Miles - Henry Bonsall marriage might be the one and provide the link to Anne Miles from Heather.
Unfortunately, it seems the references of Anne Bonsall mentioned by other posters indicates she was born in Polesworth, not Heather. Therefore I may well be chasing the wrong Ann Miles. What adds to the confusion is that the birth record of Anne from Polesworth also shows parents of Thomas and Elizabeth. Nothing is easy !!
Thanks again for everyone's comments, I'm most appreciative. If you have anything further to add please feel free to post it. I've been stuck on this for years now.
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One tree does have Ann as the daughter of William Miles and Sarah Tatlow, with Thomas as her son before she married Abraham Bates.
Of Oakthorpe, she was baptised in Measham on 5th October 1806.
It could explain why Thomas was with William and Sarah in 1841, rather than with the Ann in Market Bosworth.
The tree is by a descendant of Thomas, related to Ronald Miles 1918 (Nottingham)-2003 (Victoria)
There is more detail on the marriage here - http://www.southderbyshirebdm.co.uk/Church_Gresley/St_George_St_Marys//Marriages/stgstmmarb.html
David
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I made a mistake on the previous post.
It was Hannah who was baptised in 1806, not Ann.
Ann was baptised on 11th March 1804, the daughter of William and Mary of Oakthorpe.
The tree suggests that the name of the mother may be an error because there are no other children of William and Mary. Also, all of the other children were from Oakthorpe.
William was a miner and it seems likely that he and Sarah went to Woodhall with the children, and Ann gave birth to Thomas. I can't imagine that Ann would have gone by herself.
Also, a Timothy Miles, son of William and Sarah of Woodhall, was baptised at Kirkstead, near Woodhall, on 12th September 1824. Born in 1824, Timothy Miles was buried in Measham on 7th February 1829
I think you would need a subscription to see the tree but this is the link, just in case - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/23683220/person/1546633263/facts
David
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Thank you David for your input. However the tree your link refers to is mine. :)
Also, I have a lot of additional info to add to it that I've just discovered including the fact that William was the nephew of the older Thomas.
The parentage of Anne and what became of her after the birth of my GG grand father is what still remains unclear. What I have found in the last couple of days is a birth record for Henry Miles in 1825 in Market Bosworth to an Anne Miles with no father recorded. This may be a link to the Anne Bonsell on the 1841 Census with a son Henry Miles Bonsell, aged 15.
Thanks again for your contribution. For your information I am a Miles and Thomas, born 1824 is my paternal grandfather.
Cheers, Paul.
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I see that I am not going to pass my Genealogy Class if it is on Leicestershire. A new one for me!
https://ukga.org/index.php?pageid=12700
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Heather is actually pronounced Heether.
Henry Miles, of Market Bosworth, married Susannah Wright in Kirby Mallory on 18th February 1850. No father given for either.
George Miles married Mary Ann Wain in Market Bosworth on 20th November 1849. States that he was illegitimate.
I noticed that James Miles Bonsell used different spellings. When he married Ann Matthews in 1854, he signed his name as Bonser, son of Henry Bonser, a Tailor. His brother, George, was a witness as Bonser, but made a mark.
Daughter, Sarah Ann, was registered as Bonser and they were Bonser in 1861. In 1871, they were Bonsell and Sarah married William Judge as Bonsell. The GRO has her name as either Bonser or Bonsell for the children's births.
James is transcribed as Bones in 1881 and mother born in INDIA in 1809. Ancestry has transcribed as Ann as born in India [Polesworth, Warwickshire] but the image only has India. Her death was probably registered as Bonser in 1882, age 72, and burial in Witton Cemetery.
In 1891 James is Bonsor and death registered as Bonsor in 1893, although buried in Witton Cemetery as Bonser. Wife, Ann, registered as Bonser in 1891.
David
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Wow, thanks David for your research. The illegitimate children born to Ann interest me as my GG Grandfather born in 1824 to Ann Miles was also illegitimate. However, I am increasingly thinking that I am chasing down the wrong Ann Miles given the Polesworth reference. What's your take on the Polesworth/India record ? That confuses me.
Nonetheless, I will proceed with purchasing Ann Bonsall's marriage cert to see what light that might shed on her origins.
Cheers, Paul
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Hi Paul,
It might be worth contacting the people who think Ann was Atkins and married Thomas Miles, although they concentrate on the Bonsell line. These are the trees:-
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/104547106/person/402102060666/facts
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/3699569/person/24106612962/facts
James gave Henry Bonsell as his father, which might be correct, although step-fathers often appear as fathers on certificates.
Ann's marriage may give a clue, if she knew who he was.
David
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Thanks again. The Polesworth marriage record of Ann Atkins/Thomas Miles in 1820 seems like the killer to my hopes. I'm fairly sure my Gx3 grandmother was born a Miles and not married to one. The illegitimate birth of her son Thomas (my Gx2 grandfather) in Lincolnshire in 1824 now seems unconnected to the Bonsall line if she was married and had children from the 1820 marriage. Unless for some reason the father's name was left off the birth record.
I really am clutching at straws trying to trace the ancestry of my Gx3 grandmother, Anne or what became of her after she had my Gx2 grandfather. Perhaps she never married.
FYI I've updated my tree that you linked to in an earlier post with all my recent findings.
Cheers.
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I think I'll draw a line through my Bonsall enquiry. The link provided by David of Ann Miles marrying Francis Bates in Polesworth in 1834 now seems the most likely way for me to proceed.
I've found references to Ann Bates nee Miles on consecutive census from 1841 with the later ones showing her as being born in Heather, Leicestershire and living in Desford. I feel this is the link I'm looking for in order to connect the dots.
As previously noted a cousin (also Ann Miles) of my Gx3 grandmother Ann married an Abraham Bates in Oakthorpe in 1828. I haven't established the link between the Bates boys yet but no doubt it's there.
The Ann Miles-Henry Bonsall connection may still be significant but that can be a battle for another day. For now I'm happy to try and clarify the Miles-Bates connection.
Thanks everyone for their input especially to David for significant research.