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General => The Stay Safe Board => Topic started by: Rishile on Saturday 22 August 20 17:57 BST (UK)

Title: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Rishile on Saturday 22 August 20 17:57 BST (UK)
Social distancing now seems something from our dim and distant past.  At the beginning of the lockdown everyone was dodging everyone else, waiting patiently while someone walked towards them along a narrow path or walking into the road to keep their distance.  Supermarkets were full of people waiting while someone else was looking at the shelves or fridges.  Queues were very orderly with everyone standing 2m apart.

So, what has happened?  Since the face-mask in shops regulation, social distancing doesn't seem to exist any more.  It was so bad in our local supermarket yesterday that it looked as if everyone was panic buying again.  There was also a queue for the newly-opened restaurant in the supermarket and everyone appeared to be from the same household because nobody was social distancing.

 ??? ??? ???

Rishile
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: suey on Saturday 22 August 20 18:15 BST (UK)

We have just come back from a visit to our daughter in Gloucestershire. We were very impressed by the continuation of social distancing measures in place.  Coop and Lidl both limiting numbers in store. Coop still have a one way system in operation, all baskets sanitised by a staff member before you can take one, single, distanced queue at checkouts.  Similarly in Monmouth, all shops ask you to use sanitiser on entry, avoid touching items you don’t intend to buy. The Waitrose has a security man on the door again limited entry, one in, one out. Staff member sanitising baskets and trollies.

Eateries, pubs and restaurants socially distanced or outdoor tables, in most cases you need a key or permission from staff to use the toilets, someone then went in to clean behind you.

Back home in our village our Waitrose is smaller but the same rules apply , one in, one out.  Our One Stop still has a one way system and distanced queuing , hand sanitiser at the door for you and basket handles. The bank, one at a time, one in one out. People will stand aside where possible on pavements.

Cannot speak for somewhere like a larger Tesco because I’ve not set foot in one since end of March and don’t intend to.

So, all in all it seems to me that a lot of people have not forgotten social distancing         
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Skoosh on Saturday 22 August 20 21:31 BST (UK)
Suey, agree ;D

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Kiltpin on Saturday 22 August 20 22:03 BST (UK)
Went to our local Sainsbury today to pick up an eBay order. They are operating a strict "one out, one in" rule to stop over crowding. They even have a red/green traffic light stationed at the door. One of the assistants had to wait at the door as the store total reached maximum. 

Once inside though everybody was hugger-mugger. 

So much for a good idea! 

Regards 

Chas
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Biggles50 on Saturday 22 August 20 22:35 BST (UK)
Called in at Aldi in Burnley near to Townsley Park.

What Social Distancing?

Zilch, na da, nothing.

And Burnley is in the local lockdown status.

In the Park it was another matter but it was us that observed the SD measures others did not.

Not that SD will soon matter as the kids go back to school in little over a week and maintaining SD will be practically impossible.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: youngtug on Saturday 22 August 20 23:50 BST (UK)
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Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Caw1 on Sunday 23 August 20 00:16 BST (UK)
How very true YT! Nicely said!

Caroline
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: DianaCanada on Sunday 23 August 20 00:58 BST (UK)
Much as you said Suey, people are still social distancing here, and everyone in public places wears a mask, as mandated.  I have heard of few incidences of people being snarky or rebelling against the rules, but there are a few, as everywhere.
Suey, I am also a Potten descendant.  I have found very few in my DNA matches, nice to see one here :D.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Rishile on Sunday 23 August 20 09:14 BST (UK)
I think part of the problem is that in my area the infection and death rates have been very low all the time so everybody seems to think that means 'business as usual'.  However, I am concerned that our local supermarket who, initially, had very organised queues, security on the door and a good system in-store to keep people social distancing whilst waiting for the check-out have now reverted to 'normal'.  No barriers for queuing outside, nobody on the door, free-for-all allowed in-store.  In fact, I am finding that the staff are part of the problem.  They seem to have completely forgotten social distancing and rarely wear masks when making up orders or shelf-filling.  I have even seen one member of staff whistling as he was shelf-filling.

We are in coastal holiday resort and holiday-makers are increasing our numbers but I'm not actually blaming them because the majority I have seen are trying to stick to the rules while enjoying their holiday. 

As they say - you can't fix stupidity.

Rishile
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Viktoria on Sunday 23 August 20 12:06 BST (UK)
Well it has become a way of life for me ,being old with health problems no one,other than my son ,has been in my house since well before lockdown .
Washing machine repair man excepted, in utility room on a day when all doors were open because of the heat ,I touched nothing before wiping down ,after he had gone.
I have in realty been in isolation since January as I could not see to go out .
Contrary to instructions my best eye was operated on first ,then an emergency with my worst eye brought that op forward so I really could not see well enough to go out.
My son comes once a week ,has not been inside though, with some fresh groceries.
Visitors stay in the garden and very very few of those .
It is incredibly lonely as I live alone ,but I am not in a high rise block or a third floor flat etc ,see passers by and can chat to neighbours whilst several metres apart.
There are many worse off them I am.
But life is slipping by ,I can’t hug little GGrandson.nor grandson or granddaughter nor my children ,twol live down South and the eldest comes once a week with the fresh food shopping .He lives not too far away.
Granddaughter suffered an ectopic pregnancy with great complications  and now has much less chance of having a baby ,no hugs or kisses for her either.
Granddaughter in law also an induced miscarriage when no foetal heartbeat .
I write phone and email etc but it is not the same is it.
The signs are not good, some feel this is with us now for good and will never be completely eradicated , as yet no vaccine as for flu and it will go on .
But people- some - are incredibly blasé and careless ,selfish and ignorant in the face of information .
Andy Burnham Manchester’s Mayor, has it right ,-too late to impose lockdown too quick to lift it-.
Nothing  we oldies can do except obey the rules for others ‘ and our own sakes .
I did not think my closing years would be like this, I was going to be off out and about all over the place ,being irresponsible for the first time in my life!
Ah well , many would swap with me even just to have a garden.
Cheerio.Viktoria.

Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 23 August 20 12:31 BST (UK)
Here, in the Isle of Man, there is no social distancing, and no need for face-masks.
Due to the island being covid free for over 90days ;D

However residents are allowed off the island, but must self-isolate for 14 days on return.

This week we have seen one person jailed for 6 weeks - he decided to go to the pub to watch football; and visited another pub the following day. He was bored?! :o
Also a 64 year-old company director decided to visit his bank, and travel out of town to buy a new phone. - he has been jailed for 4 weeks!

4 others have received police warnings.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: youngtug on Sunday 23 August 20 12:46 BST (UK)
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Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: jillruss on Sunday 23 August 20 14:30 BST (UK)
Here, in the Isle of Man, there is no social distancing, and no need for face-masks.
Due to the island being covid free for over 90days ;D

However residents are allowed off the island, but must self-isolate for 14 days on return.

This week we have seen one person jailed for 6 weeks - he decided to go to the pub to watch football; and visited another pub the following day. He was bored?! :o
Also a 64 year-old company director decided to visit his bank, and travel out of town to buy a new phone. - he has been jailed for 4 weeks!

4 others have received police warnings.

So, basically, you have your own miniature fascist state over there. Well done!
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: sonofthom on Sunday 23 August 20 14:43 BST (UK)
Youngtug - what an an appalling sign and how very distressing for those who have legitimate reasons not to wear masks. The Covid 19 virus seems to bring out a very nasty streak in some people. As for Isle of Man what is described seem to be the shocking excesses of an authoritarian state.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Top-of-the-hill on Sunday 23 August 20 14:51 BST (UK)
   The two local shops I use are still following all the rules, 3 people in at one time, checker on the door at one of them, etc. But I suppose they are used by people who will follow the rules anyway.
    My daughter came back from the supermarket in a bit of a state last week, as while she was there 2 coachloads of "East Europeans" arrived and caused a bit of chaos. We guess they were home-going fruit pickers stocking up!
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: rayard on Sunday 23 August 20 15:03 BST (UK)
I have noticed charity shops are careful about sanitising and the amount of customers. Asda has taken away all the barriers, sanitiser is sometimes empty and everyone goes in and out as they please, they lean over you to get what they want.

I'm confused, why was it wrong to go to the bank?
rayard.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 23 August 20 15:33 BST (UK)
I'm confused, why was it wrong to go to the bank?
rayard.

Because he had returned from the UK and was supposed to quarantine

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-53868709

and the other one
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-53814795
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: rayard on Sunday 23 August 20 15:35 BST (UK)
I did not see mentioned in the post that he had beeen abroad, thank you.
rayard.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Jomot on Sunday 23 August 20 15:50 BST (UK)
Viktoria, what a sad post.  My heart goes out to so many living with such loneliness.

My father is 88 and has several health conditions, including heart failure, but has actively chosen to measure his remaining time by the quality of it, not the quantity.

Mobility problems mean he cannot shop etc for himself now anyway, but his children, grandchildren, friends and other family members are regular visitors to his home - where he happily receives hugs from all of us - and last night he was out at the club, sitting with friends, playing bingo, and listening to the 'turn'. 

Many at the club are of a similar age to him, and have made the same decision.

On the few occasions where he comes into contact with the general public, eg when I take him to the post office, or in the taxi to/from the club, then he will wear a mask and observe distancing measures, but otherwise his life is as unchanged as it possibly can be, and I fully support him in this.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: iluleah on Sunday 23 August 20 16:39 BST (UK)
Life is ticking on in the same 'new normal' way, local shops in the village people wait in line 2 m apart and chat, everyone gives space and everyone speaks/waves, even if they are on the other side of the road. The cricket fence is full of homemade crafts and the village children have been busy painting and decorating stones making a pathway near the water meadows
The supermarket in town 4 miles away have the traffic lights system, the other one ( Tescos) was very heavy handed at the beginning, I am sure they employed ' ex night club bouncers' who assumed they were dealing with drunk idiots the way they spoke to or rather shouted at customers...the  ' ex night club bouncers' disappeared after a week because of the amount of complaints they got and I am sure because of the loss of customers...I haven't been there since April and I know many who haven't.

The only person who doesn't social distance is my elderly neighbour and I find myself backing up when we happen to arrive home at the same time, her niece was delivering her shopping for a few weeks but my neighbour was very put out she wouldn't come in I found myself defending her niece but it made no difference she was still put out. Once we could go out I made my neighbour a cotton face mask which is now her favourite fashion assessory and I get caught at least once a day as she stands and calls my dogs out , talks to my 'indoor cat' who is outside in her catico or waits for me to hang out washing or weed, but at least I have the ability to social distance with the and she has now come up with another way of contact as she is purchasing treats for my dogs and cat...so as soon as they hear her they are either out by the fence or the cat is meowing

Over the last 6 weeks we normally have a village festival, a fete, a classic car rally with all the trimmings which brings in lots of on lookers from all over and a full week where all the village youth go and help villagers, be it painting, gardening, lifting, car washing, window cleaning or anything needed and the villagers put on food, BBQs and drinks ( pop) for them so all of those have gone to the wall this year......... but the village community gardening club members have been out keeps our village blooming  along with also planting vegetables and herbs in the many tubs and grass spaces in the village.
The police have been out and about ( really making sure 'we' comply) doing road blocks checking licences to see if you are local or travelling... been stopped twice by them as I have an English accent and personal plate car even though I have lived here for 16 yrs it seems I still stand out, but they also are very keen on checking if everyone is OK and need anything
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 23 August 20 17:01 BST (UK)
Here, in the Isle of Man, there is no social distancing, and no need for face-masks.
Due to the island being covid free for over 90days ;D

However residents are allowed off the island, but must self-isolate for 14 days on return.

This week we have seen one person jailed for 6 weeks - he decided to go to the pub to watch football; and visited another pub the following day. He was bored?! :o
Also a 64 year-old company director decided to visit his bank, and travel out of town to buy a new phone. - he has been jailed for 4 weeks!

4 others have received police warnings.

So, basically, you have your own miniature fascist state over there. Well done!

Rules have been set, and must be followed.
It's how we have kept Covid off the island for 90 days.
Far better than the anarchist state of England! ;D ;D

We are still on stage 4 of lockdown.
Stage 4 allows island residents to travel, but must self-isolate for 14 days on return.

What's the point of having laws, if there is no punishment if you ignore them?
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: sonofthom on Sunday 23 August 20 17:06 BST (UK)
I think that I would be questioning the appropriateness of such laws which appear to lack any proportionality, particularly with the virus clearly now being much attenuated.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: jillruss on Sunday 23 August 20 17:33 BST (UK)
I think that I would be questioning the appropriateness of such laws which appear to lack any proportionality, particularly with the virus clearly now being much attenuated.

I agree, Plus, how easily and quickly said laws are made 'on the hoof'. Do they go through any statutory procedure or is it purely on some minister's say so? Witness the debacle over people's holidays: it seems anyone, anywhere can be 'ordered' to come home or face self isolation for a fortnight. Most of these people have paid hard earned money for their holiday after months of lockdown - why not either give them more notice of the latest whim decision to put a country on the blacklist so they don't have to pay extortionate prices to find a flight home, or, more appropriately, stop messing everyone around and make up your minds whether we're still isolating or whether we're trying to live normally again. Its almost as if they don't want us to get back to normality!

You know what they say about a little power...
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: River Tyne Lass on Sunday 23 August 20 17:37 BST (UK)
I agree that this sign (post 11) is not such a good idea.  Yes, there are people who just don't seem to care beyond themselves but I think the majority of people want to do the right thing if they are able to.
There are some people who have legitimate reasons for not wearing a face covering.  This might be a health problem or a disability which makes it difficult to tolerate a mask.
A sign like this seems to me like when people in the past thoughtlessly gave out white feathers to shame with no consideration about who they might be tackling.
I think the type who could wear a covering but won't out of indifference, will likely also be able to shrug off this type of sign but the genuine might become upset.
I think we should give people the benefit of the doubt and trust that the majority want to be doing the right thing - if they can.



Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: River Tyne Lass on Sunday 23 August 20 17:45 BST (UK)
Viktoria, I agree that this post of yours is so sad.  You have been through so much in life - evacuation during the war and now it has come to this. And yet you always manage to keep so cheerful.  Chin up, hopefully things will turn a corner one of these days and things get back to the old normal. Let's keep hoping anyway.

Take care.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: arthurk on Sunday 23 August 20 19:45 BST (UK)
It's interesting to hear that social distancing is alive and well in some places, but my experience is far more like Rishile's.

Apart from an outdoor table at a coffee shop, I think the only retail establishments I've been in for 3-4 months are a couple of supermarkets. It might be the time of day that I go (early - c.8am) but for quite some time now there hasn't been a queue at either of these and they don't seem to be counting people in and out any more.

Another change is that since face coverings became compulsory, people have actually bothered far less about social distancing: apparently wearing something over your face means you don't have to bother with that any more, so as we go carefully round the store trying to avoid people, waiting to let them pass etc, others simply brush past you and don't even give you 1m space, let alone 2.

Walking outside it's often much the same (though no face coverings). Some people still stand aside, or are grateful when we do, but a significant number don't seem to care and if we move over to let them pass, just give us funny looks.

Since we live close to an area under local lockdown it's all rather worrying, and based on the behaviour we see round here, it seems a second spike is more or less inevitable.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: roopat on Sunday 23 August 20 20:09 BST (UK)
In our local Morrisons last Thursday around lunchtime, the cashier commented on the queue at the cafe which was directly opposite our checkout. There were at least 20 people (some masked) waiting all bunched up in the line just like pre-distancing times, one couple towards the back of the queue were standing about 1m back - in front of them were 2 youngish women, unmasked, picking over the sandwiches. The cashier said they normally have someone supervising the queue, she didn't understand why this wasn't happening. Then she told us that next week 'they' were removing all the Covid signs & screens. She said she will feel very vulnerable being directly exposed to people.


No idea whether she's right. This was OH's first venture into a supermarket - he was just saying he felt much more confident than expected  ::)


I agree with Viktoria, not at all how I imagined I would spend the last few years of my life. I admire the 88 year old who can take such a pragmatic approach, maybe I will find that wisdom. At the moment I find the future rather bleak.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: youngtug on Sunday 23 August 20 20:48 BST (UK)
On what basis are you supporting your claim that the virus is much attenuated.?
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: sonofthom on Sunday 23 August 20 21:23 BST (UK)
Mathematics - it is relatively straightforward if you have a basic grasp of statistics to analyse the figures and it is obvious that the deaths and hospitalisations in relation to new infections have fallen dramatically.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: youngtug on Sunday 23 August 20 21:27 BST (UK)
Could that not be a result of social distancing and the wearing of masks reducing the spread rather than the virus being attenuated
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: sonofthom on Sunday 23 August 20 21:36 BST (UK)
Highly unlikely! Social distancing is not a new phenomenon and as suggested in this thread it is probably now much less observed. As for masks if they were truly effective in reducing transmission then we would reasonably expect to see a fall in infections where mask wearing has been introduced; this has clearly not been the case.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: youngtug on Sunday 23 August 20 22:22 BST (UK)
That does not make sense with your previous post
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: sonofthom on Monday 24 August 20 08:12 BST (UK)
It makes perfect sense if you study the actual data. That indeed is what is so often overlooked as too many people seem to prefer fear and paranoia over the rather more mundane and much less frightening facts.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: arthurk on Monday 24 August 20 11:36 BST (UK)
As for masks if they were truly effective in reducing transmission then we would reasonably expect to see a fall in infections where mask wearing has been introduced...

Other things being equal, yes. But as you yourself note, they aren't:
Quote
Social distancing is not a new phenomenon and as suggested in this thread it is probably now much less observed.

My observation, and others', is that people seem to be regarding face coverings as an alternative to social distancing, not as an added extra. Possibly all we can say is that social distancing and face coverings appear to have had more or less the same effect.

Because it appears the government want something approaching normal life to resume, they've ordered the use of face coverings in situations where they think social distancing is hampering that aim. They seem not to have realised that when it comes to non-essential activities, people who greatly dislike wearing them are now far less likely to visit shops etc than if proper social distancing without face coverings was still in place.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Rishile on Monday 24 August 20 11:47 BST (UK)

Because it appears the government want something approaching normal life to resume, they've ordered the use of face coverings in situations where they think social distancing is hampering that aim. They seem not to have realised that when it comes to non-essential activities, people who greatly dislike wearing them are now far less likely to visit shops etc than if proper social distancing without face coverings was still in place.

I can totally relate to this.  I find my limit is three shops and I've had enough of 'mask on/mask off' and don't want to keep it on all the time - especially if the weather is hot as it has been here.

I don't think 'normal' will resume until all restrictions are lifted and even then it will take some time.

Rishile
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: sonofthom on Monday 24 August 20 12:00 BST (UK)
Very true Rishile. We and many of our friends have given up on shopping and will not return while face masks are obligatory. It doesn't help that I wear spectacles and steamed up specs are definitely not to be recommended.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: jillruss on Monday 24 August 20 12:16 BST (UK)
If children do indeed go back to school next month (and I think its still a big IF) allowing some parents to go back to work (assuming they've still got a job), presumably we will then see what effect this has on the spread of the bug. My opinion (and hope) is that the effect will be either non-existent or so small as to make little difference.

We have to at least try getting back to normal - and, by 'normal' I mean no compulsory social distancing and no face masks, the latter only becoming 'necessary' when, after scaring us all to death with their useless statistics and enforced lockdown, the powers that be finally cottoned on to the fact that the economy was going down the tubes and changed tack. Hence the sudden  'eureka moment' when they decided that, after all, face masks were a GOOD THING.

I just wish they'd stop taking us for fools and realise that it doesn't make sense to cajole people into going back to work, going shopping, and taking advantage of meal offers on the one hand, but fine us for not wearing face masks and carry on scaring the population in other ways on the other hand.

Oh, and would someone please tell them that the reason the number of cases is going up is because they are finally doing more testing. The lightbulb obviously hasn't yet switched on!

I don't think I've ever felt so utterly despairing of anyone in government actually doing something useful. Its just been one blunder after another.

Do others really believe that schools will really open (fully and permanently) next month?  :(
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: sonofthom on Monday 24 August 20 12:33 BST (UK)
Jillruss, I agree with everything you say but would add that schools have returned in Scotland so there is hope. However the negative aspect is that there is now a campaign going to require schoolchildren to wear masks all day. One can only hope that some of the maths teachers are sufficiently numerate to persuade their colleagues of how ridiculous and inappropriate this would be.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: jillruss on Monday 24 August 20 13:00 BST (UK)
Jillruss, I agree with everything you say but would add that schools have returned in Scotland so there is hope. However the negative aspect is that there is now a campaign going to require schoolchildren to wear masks all day. One can only hope that some of the maths teachers are sufficiently numerate to persuade their colleagues of how ridiculous and inappropriate this would be.

I hope you're right. I really do. I tend to regard the Scots government as much more sensible than ours (not that it would take much!). I might not particularly like Ms Sturgeon but I think she's a canny operator.

I'm so glad I'm retired and don't have to face the possibility of being told to wear a face mask all day. As someone on this thread has said, they steam up your glasses (I know it sounds funny but it really isn't) and, particularly when its hot, they make you feel even hotter and as though you are about to faint away. If I was still in work, I'd have to risk a fine (or, of course, a 10 year jail sentence if I lived in the IoM!!)

I'd forgotten that children go back earlier in Scotland. Have I missed coverage on the news? Have their been no bolshy Scottish teachers unions or frightened Scottish parents refusing to tow the line? Or have we just not heard about them? I do listen to the news quite regularly but perhaps I've missed it. I do tend to glaze over these days when covid is mentioned, especially when they start quoting statistics which have lived up to all expectation and become 'damned lies'.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Skoosh on Monday 24 August 20 13:37 BST (UK)
Just back from my local Asda, 100% of shoppers masked-up & nobody breathing down your neck either, notice the aisles are now arrow-free so no need to walk backwards for that offer you missed!
 Yes the Scottish schools are back & by and large hysterics-free. Teachers union concerned at exposure to infection might mean masks for older pupils, nothing decided.
 Boris cut his, not very well planned, Highland holiday to 3 days as Daily Mail spilled the beans on the location, Applecross. One might have thought that one of his Tory chums would have given him the run of their estate. Haste ye back! or mebbes naw!

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: ReadyDale on Monday 24 August 20 15:05 BST (UK)
Do others really believe that schools will really open (fully and permanently) next month?  :(
Not if the Teachers Unions have any say. they'll be off for years! ::)
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 24 August 20 15:26 BST (UK)
Do others really believe that schools will really open (fully and permanently) next month?  :(
Not if the Teachers Unions have any say. they'll be off for years! ::)

One school Head featured on TV claimed they couldn't go back because Classrooms had no bins.

When I went to school a classroom bin was a standard item.

Seems the budget holder was the School, arguing for bin money.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: heywood on Monday 24 August 20 18:04 BST (UK)
Do others really believe that schools will really open (fully and permanently) next month?  :(
Not if the Teachers Unions have any say. they'll be off for years! ::)

The teachers I know are willing and eager to go back and many, of course, like my relative who teaches in Primary school never stopped teaching even during the Easter and half term holidays.
We now see that one school in Scotland has been affected - the adults rather than the students and the Scottish government are now considering face masks for older children during travel and moving within the schools.
There is,apparently, guidance re special bins which schools are advised to use and prior to the summer holidays, there were many pages of guidance which were often changed by the government at the last minute.
I do not think it is ‘bolshy’ as jillruss says to want to keep children, their families and the staff safe.
Even for an average primary school of 300+ children there has to be much organisation - staggered timings; separate entrances and playgrounds if possible; smaller groupings for some;staff can’t meet other staff unless they are in the ‘bubble’ and so on.
It seems very easy for some to criticise.  ::)
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Top-of-the-hill on Monday 24 August 20 19:02 BST (UK)
  I keep hearing references to what should or should not happen on "school transport". I am slightly puzzled - do those giving the advice think our children travel on yellow buses like they seem to in America? (If only!) It seems to me that virtually all secondary school children cram onto service buses and trains along with everyone else.
   Now I hear that there will be only half the spaces on the buses which our children catch, and which are usually rammed. Of course, what will happen is many more parents driving them to school.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: JenB on Monday 24 August 20 19:10 BST (UK)
  I keep hearing references to what should or should not happen on "school transport". I am slightly puzzled - do those giving the advice think our children travel on yellow buses like they seem to in America? (If only!) It seems to me that virtually all secondary school children cram onto service buses and trains along with everyone else.

Here in Northumberland a large number of children come to school on special buses. It's the only way that children from some of the villages can get to school.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Monday 24 August 20 19:22 BST (UK)
  I keep hearing references to what should or should not happen on "school transport". I am slightly puzzled - do those giving the advice think our children travel on yellow buses like they seem to in America? (If only!) It seems to me that virtually all secondary school children cram onto service buses and trains along with everyone else.

Here in Northumberland a large number of children come to school on special buses. It's the only way that children from some of the villages can get to school.

Same here. Most kids go to school by bus.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 24 August 20 20:56 BST (UK)
Mathematics - it is relatively straightforward if you have a basic grasp of statistics to analyse the figures and it is obvious that the deaths and hospitalisations in relation to new infections have fallen dramatically.

Ah, but Covid-19 is suppressed  here, due to Lockdown restrictions since March.

It is claimed it has been mutating.

A mutation might weaken the Virus too, but too early to draw any conclusions. So a cautious approach is maintained.

Scientists want more 'sequencing tests'.

The media outlets have been going mad for about 2 hours about Hong Kong
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53889823

Mark
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Top-of-the-hill on Monday 24 August 20 21:10 BST (UK)
  O.K. I can see that special transport would be needed in more sparsely inhabited places.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: sonofthom on Monday 24 August 20 21:19 BST (UK)
Bushinn1746 - Lockdown, in theory at least, would suppress the incidence of the virus, not the severity of the infection. The severity of the virus as measured by hospitalisations and deaths as a function of the numbers infected has been steadily reducing; this is good news.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: heywood on Monday 24 August 20 21:23 BST (UK)
  O.K. I can see that special transport would be needed in more sparsely inhabited places.

There is schools transport throughout Greater Manchester. These are regular buses on  designated school routes plus some Yellow school buses where children would have a designated seat. I think this costs more.  This is being suspended now so all children can access the yellow buses if they are on that school route.
There are also coaches used as schools transport. Children travel from town to town to school.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 24 August 20 22:38 BST (UK)
sonofthom, We also have to remember we have Summer here with lots of hot and mostly dry weather.

One UK Professor / Epidemiologist has said we have not had Winter yet.

A relation lives in NZ and their 2 to 3 Covid cases and less, are around 29 in Winter.

It seems only time will tell, if the 2019 Virus is weakening here or not?

Mark
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: roopat on Tuesday 25 August 20 07:51 BST (UK)
Here in Norfolk most schoolchildren are transported by local coach companies. But those few companies serve all the schools - primary and secondary. I well remember the number of times I was on after-school bus duty at the local high school & one bus queue would be left waiting because its bus had been delayed on the earlier primary school run. So if the buses are going to carry fewer kids at one time.....  ???
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Skoosh on Tuesday 25 August 20 08:05 BST (UK)
Four schools in my area, I don't see any school-buses, the kids either walk or get lifted by their grannies. Mostly the latter I think?  ;D

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: ReadyDale on Tuesday 25 August 20 10:34 BST (UK)
Four schools in my area, I don't see any school-buses, the kids either walk or get lifted by their grannies. Mostly the latter I think?  ;D

Skoosh.
That obviously means something else in this area compared with in Scotland :o ;D
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Skoosh on Tuesday 25 August 20 11:50 BST (UK)
Their grannie brings her car!!  There is a fifth school which is a special needs/disabled kids secondary and a stream of mini-buses transport them over a very wide area. That school was open during the lock-down as a "hub" apparently!

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: arthurk on Wednesday 26 August 20 11:33 BST (UK)
Here, in the Isle of Man .... residents are allowed off the island, but must self-isolate for 14 days on return.

This week we have seen one person jailed for 6 weeks .... Also a 64 year-old .... has been jailed for 4 weeks!

So, basically, you have your own miniature fascist state over there. Well done!

I'd never thought of Western Australia as a fascist state, but I expect the guilty parties in the IOM are glad they aren't there:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-53903498
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 28 August 20 22:42 BST (UK)
Isle of Man now 100 days Covid free! ;D ;D

Gaiety Theatre opened this week - showing "Calender Girls".
Music gigs back on; DC-AC yesterday, Pigs On The Wing tomorrow.
Long Bank Holiday weekend as well.
Beach Festivals at Laxey and Port Erin.

Pretty good for
Quote
our own miniature fascist state over there.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Skoosh on Saturday 29 August 20 06:58 BST (UK)
Don't mention the aborigines!  ;D

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Biggles50 on Saturday 29 August 20 11:52 BST (UK)
Isle of Man now 100 days Covid free! ;D ;D

Gaiety Theatre opened this week - showing "Calender Girls".
Music gigs back on; DC-AC yesterday, Pigs On The Wing tomorrow.
Long Bank Holiday weekend as well.
Beach Festivals at Laxey and Port Erin.

Pretty good for
Quote
our own miniature fascist state over there.

It may be Draconian but it is working.

Far better than a field of moronic teen and twenties having a Rave, leaving tonnes of litter and spoiling the environment for nearby residents.

Coupled with it being a Bank Holiday Weekend here in the UK which if people ignore the Covid precautions then I fully expect the Government to introduce fat stronger punitive fines than the £100 slap on the wrist.

Long term the denegration of society values we are seeing will quite possibly result in a change of Government actions.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Llwyd on Saturday 29 August 20 15:11 BST (UK)
Isle of Man now 100 days Covid free! ;D ;D

Gaiety Theatre opened this week - showing "Calender Girls".
Music gigs back on; DC-AC yesterday, Pigs On The Wing tomorrow.
Long Bank Holiday weekend as well.
Beach Festivals at Laxey and Port Erin.

Pretty good for
Quote
our own miniature fascist state over there.

Paradise indeed!!.
 :)
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: rayard on Monday 07 September 20 14:10 BST (UK)
In Asda this morning I counted 32 people (not counting children and staff) who were not wearing face-coverings and were not distancing. (Yes I know about exceptions, my cousin has COPD and wears a mask and so does a relative with severe learning difficulties). Their staff say nothing can be done.
There wasn't much sanitising being done either!! Is every supermarket the same?
rayard.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Skoosh on Monday 07 September 20 14:33 BST (UK)
In Asda/Robroyston on Friday morning, saw nobody without a mask.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: jillruss on Monday 07 September 20 14:38 BST (UK)
Hello, hello, hello what's happened here, then? I thought this thread had been locked but now - hey presto - its unlocked.

I thought I understood why it had been locked (too political? though, how you isolate politics from anything these days is beyond me). Not just being awkward, though I know I have a PHD in it, but I'd really like to understand (for future reference) why its now unlocked???   ???
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 07 September 20 17:05 BST (UK)
Isle of Man now 100 days Covid free! ;D ;D

Gaiety Theatre opened this week - showing "Calender Girls".
Music gigs back on; DC-AC yesterday, Pigs On The Wing tomorrow.
Long Bank Holiday weekend as well.
Beach Festivals at Laxey and Port Erin.

Pretty good for
Quote
our own miniature fascist state over there.

It may be Draconian but it is working.


Worryingly I see social distancing in decline and nearly half visiting the Coop at Meriden were without any mask.

Some people seem to have returned to a blase or indifferent attitude and you'll see a rise in positives.

Yes my glasses do steam up wearing a mask, but at least I'm minimising the swallowing and breathing in of tiny globbles of someone else's spit / saliva, should they speak, or shout at their children or block the shopping aisle whilst speaking on their mobile 'phone. How do you think colds and winter flu are transmitted?

Since my brush this year with something viral, which resembled something like the plague, with spots, rash, welt like swellings, lesions, severe itching, eratic high blood pressure, my urine going dark brown in under 2 hours, sudden severe pain in the brain (like someone had struck my skull with a hammer blow) and a stinging burning inside both my leg muscles ... although I'm refusing to be a hermit, I'll continue taking precautions and wearing a Surgeon's mask especially when out in busy or enclosed public spaces!

My sole problem is to have Neuro deterioration discovered 20 years ago (cause unknown), but whatever the latest was, it saw a weakness in my body and attacked.

I feel very very lucky still to be here  :) all I could do was lie down, but realised stinging burning and brown urine might be my body requiring substantial amounts of fluid, so drank and drank. The pain in the brain began to subside, the burning inside my legs went after a few weeks, but the rash has taken very much longer.

Our Dentist is still not doing inspections and Doctors here have stopped routine appointments and told me if it comes back I should seek urgent help.

Take care of your health, Mark
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 07 September 20 21:12 BST (UK)
Prof. Van Tam, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, England, in the last few hours

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54065793

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-07/rise-in-coronavirus-cases-a-great-concern-deputy-chief-medical-officer-warns
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: roopat on Monday 07 September 20 22:43 BST (UK)
My daughter was just telling us about her friend whose husband's relatives (different households) have all announced they will be coming to stay with her for a family occasion (as she has a big house). Because of this friend's awkward current domestic circumstances this could be a problem for her but she will 'go along with it anyway'. I pointed out that she simply had to say it's currently against the rules to have more than 2 households together like that. My daughter patronisingly told us that we must realise most people are 'getting on with their lives' & ignoring 'the rules' & anyway this is part of her friend's Asian culture to have an open house for all the family.


Seemingly she told OH in a separate conversation about illegal raves that 'people need to let off steam'.


 ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 08 September 20 10:48 BST (UK)
Prof. Van Tam, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, England, in the last few hours

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54065793

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-07/rise-in-coronavirus-cases-a-great-concern-deputy-chief-medical-officer-warns

Unfortunately it is the politicians who make the rules not the scientists.

So many times when these parties / illegal raves etc make the headlines, you read of very little action being taken as regards the participants. The police "engage" with them, explain the rules (as if everyone didn't know what they are by now)  and disperse them - so they can do the same thing next week and the week after etc etc.. A couple of organisers might get a fine - a large sum to most people - but does it make much difference to their profits?

A school not far from where I live has been closed after 8 teachers tested positive - it was only 5 on yesterday's news, so there may still be more to come. The pupils only started back last Thursday, but there were staff training days on Tuesday and Wednesday. Yesterday the number of people told asked to self isolate for 14 days included 90 pupils. With a further 3 teachers confirmed positive, that may well rise today.
This is in an area which is not on the government's watch list - latest info on below map puts the area in the lowest category of 0 - 2 cases

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=47574f7a6e454dc6a42c5f6912ed7076
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 08 September 20 10:52 BST (UK)
Another map with future predictions from Imperial College. very very worrying

https://imperialcollegelondon.github.io/covid19local/
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: jillruss on Tuesday 08 September 20 13:20 BST (UK)
Here we go again! Frighten the life out of everybody when the main reason the number of cases are going up is because they're finally doing more testing.

I'm fed up of statistics which - as we've all seen over the past few months - can be manipulated in order to prove just about anything. Hospital cases? Hardly any. Most of these young people who we're told are now the main victims don't even know they've got it or had it. I suspect that is also a manipulation in order to try and frighten the youngsters the way they scared the bejesus out of us oldies. "Don't kill granny" indeed! I'm not sure they even know if the virus has mutated, as I've read that most do (like the flu) over time and become a lot less virulent.

They really need to get things in proportion, stop throwing their collective weights around and let people live their lives. What truly shocks me is hearing of people who are still waiting for operations or consultations about cancer and other serious conditions; about people whose mental health has deteriorated drastically and people who are losing their jobs left, right and centre.  I also have some sympathy for people whose holidays have been ruined but that's obviously not as critical.

I'm feeling that the whole thing has become a farce in this country. I bet we're the laughing stock of the rest of Europe.

I blame face masks for the rise in cases! Not the lack of them; just the opposite. I think people have now assumed they are protected by a mask (they are not) and can disregard any attempt at social distancing. I sat on the bus this morning sporting one of those infernal face masks (because I 'have to') making me feel hot and flustered and totally cut off from everyone else. It made me feel even more like an ant than normal! All these little people scurrying around, avoiding each other and taking things back to the communal nest! Faces are important - they show our individuality and personality. We shouldn't be covering them up just because some man in a suit decided (belatedly) that they are a good thing.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: LizzieL on Tuesday 08 September 20 14:16 BST (UK)
Here we go again! Frighten the life out of everybody when the main reason the number of cases are going up is because they're finally doing more testing.


Obviously if there is little or no testing then you won't find the cases. But in the last month the number of tests processed per day has not risen substantially, but the number of cases has almost doubled. So you cannot say that the huge increase recently is just down to more testing

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/testing

For example for cases the 7 day average for 1st Aug was 800 and on 1st Sep was 1529
Tests processed (7 day ave) on 1st Aug was 171,692 and on  1st Sep was 181,934.

At beginning of August 0.47% of people tested were positive and at beginning September it was 0.84%. That is a rise which cannot be attributed to more testing being done.

The 7 day average of cases by 4th Sept was 2,032, which obviously does not include the two latest days with cases just short of 3000 each. Number of tests processed figures are only given up to 2nd Sept which was 175,687.



Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Tuesday 08 September 20 14:46 BST (UK)

I'm feeling that the whole thing has become a farce in this country. I bet we're the laughing stock of the rest of Europe.


Nobody is laughing, we are seeing rising cases elsewhere.

My Wife's contact in Spain, suggest they have problems and are socialising in small groups, gatherings with some forgetting social distancing etc.

Points you make well are the people waiting for other treatments and the lost jobs are awful.

We'll only have an Isle of Man situation  :) if everyone does their bit to stop it spreading  :)   :)

Mark
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 08 September 20 14:59 BST (UK)

We'll only have an Isle of Man situation  :) if everyone does their bit to stop it spreading  :)   :)

Mark

Sadly we have had 1 positive Covid test - a passenger returning from UK, who was already self-isolating.
Hopefully, that's been nipped in the bud?
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Viktoria on Tuesday 08 September 20 15:07 BST (UK)
Just announced on Radio, Bolton is in Lockdown again with 110 per 100,000

Oh dear, it is really creeping up.
Rossendale will be not far behind .

Viktoria,

Have modified my post, I missed off 2 noughts!
Not 1000 but 100,000 :-[V.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Kiltpin on Tuesday 08 September 20 16:31 BST (UK)
Here we go again! Frighten the life out of everybody when the main reason the number of cases are going up is because they're finally doing more testing.
 

NO 

The number of cases will still be the same regardless of whether they are teasted or not. 

Regards 

Chas
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Tuesday 08 September 20 16:38 BST (UK)
Here we go again! Frighten the life out of everybody when the main reason the number of cases are going up is because they're finally doing more testing.


Obviously if there is little or no testing then you won't find the cases. But in the last month the number of tests processed per day has not risen substantially, but the number of cases has almost doubled. So you cannot say that the huge increase recently is just down to more testing

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/testing

For example for cases the 7 day average for 1st Aug was 800 and on 1st Sep was 1529
Tests processed (7 day ave) on 1st Aug was 171,692 and on  1st Sep was 181,934.

At beginning of August 0.47% of people tested were positive and at beginning September it was 0.84%. That is a rise which cannot be attributed to more testing being done.

The 7 day average of cases by 4th Sept was 2,032, which obviously does not include the two latest days with cases just short of 3000 each. Number of tests processed figures are only given up to 2nd Sept which was 175,687.

The Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty is Tweeting ...
https://twitter.com/cmo_england?lang=en
 ----------
Can anyone verify this claim about Spain from another source?
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/09/can-europe-tame-pandemic-s-next-wave
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: jillruss on Tuesday 08 September 20 18:15 BST (UK)
Here we go again! Frighten the life out of everybody when the main reason the number of cases are going up is because they're finally doing more testing.
 

NO 

The number of cases will still be the same regardless of whether they are teasted or not. 

Regards 

Chas

Well, obviously - but we are talking about the number of reported cases here i.e. those who have been tested. Those are the statistics (dirty word) the so called experts are supposedly working on.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Viktoria on Tuesday 08 September 20 18:17 BST (UK)
Sorry folks,  typo,not 1000, but 100,000.
Sorry .
Viktoria.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Llwyd on Tuesday 08 September 20 19:00 BST (UK)
It's happening here in Wales also. There has been an increase in cases and a local lockdown in Caerffili has been introduced. Other areas are under threat.
 :)
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: arthurk on Tuesday 08 September 20 19:37 BST (UK)
Here we go again! Frighten the life out of everybody when the main reason the number of cases are going up is because they're finally doing more testing.

Obviously if there is little or no testing then you won't find the cases. But in the last month the number of tests processed per day has not risen substantially, but the number of cases has almost doubled. So you cannot say that the huge increase recently is just down to more testing

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/testing

For example for cases the 7 day average for 1st Aug was 800 and on 1st Sep was 1529
Tests processed (7 day ave) on 1st Aug was 171,692 and on  1st Sep was 181,934.

At beginning of August 0.47% of people tested were positive and at beginning September it was 0.84%. That is a rise which cannot be attributed to more testing being done.

The 7 day average of cases by 4th Sept was 2,032, which obviously does not include the two latest days with cases just short of 3000 each. Number of tests processed figures are only given up to 2nd Sept which was 175,687.

Over the last week or so there have been several reports of people having to travel hundreds of miles to get a test. Rightly or wrongly, I gained the impression (ie I think this was the government's explanation) that this was because a lot of testing capacity had been moved to the areas known to already have a larger number of cases.

So if I've understood this correctly, I think it means that a higher proportion of tests is being carried out in areas where Covid is more prevalent, which means there are probably going to be more positives than when testing was being done more evenly across the country.

If anyone understands this better than I do, please feel free to correct me. And if I am right, I'm certainly not saying that there are any grounds for complacency in areas where the rate is still currently low.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Tuesday 08 September 20 20:16 BST (UK)
I may be wrong on this, but I think the figures for incidence of COVID come from the ONS random household surveys, rather than from the testing of suspected cases (for the reasons you describe.)

They should provide a less biased result.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 08 September 20 22:41 BST (UK)
Looks like we're moving back to tighter restrictions from Monday.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/08/coronavirus-gatherings-of-more-than-six-to-be-banned-in-england
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Stanwix England on Tuesday 08 September 20 22:46 BST (UK)
I'm feeling very tense now.

My son goes back to school tomorrow. I'm sure he'll be fine, but I'm obviously worrying about him catching it. I'm also worried about him passing it on to me or my husband. We run our own business and can't really afford time off sick. Also I'm worried about 'long covid'. I'm already dealing with chronic illness, I don't need something else on top.

Just wish I could bury my head in the sand and let it all go away!
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 08 September 20 23:10 BST (UK)
A bit of worrying news  just up on CNN. Apparently, Astrazeneca have paused their trials on their vaccine because one of the volunteers has developed an adverse illness.
I'm not sure if this is the one being developed by the Pharma co. and Oxford University.

Just up - it is the Oxford one ~

https://www.statnews.com/2020/09/08/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-study-put-on-hold-due-to-suspected-adverse-reaction-in-participant-in-the-u-k/
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Tuesday 08 September 20 23:15 BST (UK)
A bit of worrying news  just up on CNN. Apparently, Astrazeneca have paused their trials on their vaccine because one of the volunteers has developed an adverse illness.
I'm not sure if this is the one being developed by the Pharma co. and Oxford University.

Just up - it is the Oxford one.

That is bad news. Rising cases, no proper track and trace system and now this.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Tuesday 08 September 20 23:46 BST (UK)
Looks like we're moving back to tighter restrictions from Monday.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/08/coronavirus-gatherings-of-more-than-six-to-be-banned-in-england

A hospital in Marseille has admitted 80 new Covid cases from August into September 2020 with twenty in Intensive Care (UK TV news).

Radio France Internationale (Marseille)
https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200814-paris-marseille-move-back-into-covid-19-red-zone-as-infections-rise-tourism-coronavirus-second-wave

Radio France Internationale (French Generally)
https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200903-fresh-spike-in-french-covid-19-cases-as-hospital-admissions-rise-marseille-paris-neymar-psg

In the last month, there has been a disregard for Social Distancing generally by some.

UK Laws are being introduced to stop gatherings.

Mark
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 08 September 20 23:48 BST (UK)
A bit of worrying news  just up on CNN. Apparently, Astrazeneca have paused their trials on their vaccine because one of the volunteers has developed an adverse illness.
I'm not sure if this is the one being developed by the Pharma co. and Oxford University.

Just up - it is the Oxford one.

That is bad news. Rising cases, no proper track and trace system and now this.

I'm starting to get very depressed about it all now, Mike  :-\
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Tuesday 08 September 20 23:50 BST (UK)
A bit of worrying news  just up on CNN. Apparently, Astrazeneca have paused their trials on their vaccine because one of the volunteers has developed an adverse illness.
I'm not sure if this is the one being developed by the Pharma co. and Oxford University.

Just up - it is the Oxford one.

That is bad news. Rising cases, no proper track and trace system and now this.

I'm starting to get very depressed about it all now, Mike  :-\
Cheer up, it'll soon be Christmas.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 09 September 20 00:07 BST (UK)
Santa won't be able to visit - he's not in our bubble  :-X
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Wednesday 09 September 20 06:22 BST (UK)
The early situation in France and Spain (last 7 - 14 days) looks very serious and UK daily cases have increased too.
 ----------
UK Matt Hancock, Health Secretary, scheduled to appear on Sky News shortly at about 07.05 hrs.

Regarding Covid Public Testing, Tests are for a person who is:-
a) displaying symptons or
b) instructed to take a test by a Clinician or a Local Authority Public Health.

(Government claim the Test system is being abused)
 ----------
UK Prime Minister to address the Nation today.

Mark
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Guy Etchells on Wednesday 09 September 20 07:25 BST (UK)
A bit of worrying news  just up on CNN. Apparently, Astrazeneca have paused their trials on their vaccine because one of the volunteers has developed an adverse illness.
I'm not sure if this is the one being developed by the Pharma co. and Oxford University.

Just up - it is the Oxford one ~

https://www.statnews.com/2020/09/08/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-study-put-on-hold-due-to-suspected-adverse-reaction-in-participant-in-the-u-k/

That is not worrying news it is actually good news as it shows the trails are working rather than being rushed through to come to market.
It is very common for trails to be paused whilst reactions are investigated and it would be very worrying if a trail flew through without any adverse reactions being found.

All medicines and vaccines throw up adverse reactions in a few cases, it is important to understand why the reaction occurred and who would be likely to have such a reaction.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 09 September 20 08:22 BST (UK)
I think most of us do know about the stages of trialing drugs, etc., Guy

It's still worrying.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 09 September 20 09:49 BST (UK)
I see we have a new slogan:

hands, face, space

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LziymUiPOA

 ;D
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: IgorStrav on Wednesday 09 September 20 09:57 BST (UK)
I think Guy is right to point out that it is normal for vaccine tests to be paused, and that the emergence of unexpected symptoms is helpful in the learning which has to take place.

It is, however, not a short process to develop a vaccine - for obvious reasons - and expectations that we may have one this year are optimistic to say the least, when usually it is a 2 year (or more) process.

I think the schools opening and forthcoming university openings are something to be concerned about, and a working Test and Trace system is essential.  Not to have one fully operative at this stage is very worrying.

Instructions that suggest it's fine to go back to work (why aren't you back already all you people who've been 'idle' at home - when many have been working throughout, I certainly have),
and safe to go back to school/university,
as well as to support restaurants and encourage dining out with discounts,
whilst it's apparently 'not safe' to have meetings of more than six people,
are hugely confusing.

And when it's confusing, then people don't know what to do, and are more likely to either do nothing or - inadvertently - the wrong thing.





Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 09 September 20 10:06 BST (UK)
Guy just told us what we already knew, Igor. 
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: arthurk on Wednesday 09 September 20 10:41 BST (UK)
The BBC site has some reflections on the recent rise in numbers:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54064347

I found the piece interesting, though in some places it seems not to reach any firm conclusions.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: IgorStrav on Wednesday 09 September 20 10:47 BST (UK)
Guy just told us what we already knew, Igor.

Apologies.

My fault entirely for not reading back over the thread.

Sorry

Added:  I'll shut up and get on with the work which I've been doing throughout the summer despite Government hints to thew contrary.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Wednesday 09 September 20 11:17 BST (UK)
The BBC site has some reflections on the recent rise in numbers:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54064347

I found the piece interesting, though in some places it seems not to reach any firm conclusions.

I hear the Belgians took early action and it is claimed they are keeping new daily Covid numbers down.

However, France and Spain are reporting new daily cases of 7,000 & nearly 10,000 with France seeing first 2nd wave Hospital admissions.

Radio France Internationale (Marseille)
https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200814-paris-marseille-move-back-into-covid-19-red-zone-as-infections-rise-tourism-coronavirus-second-wave

Radio France Internationale (France Generally)
https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200903-fresh-spike-in-french-covid-19-cases-as-hospital-admissions-rise-marseille-paris-neymar-psg

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/09/can-europe-tame-pandemic-s-next-wave

Mark
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: jillruss on Wednesday 09 September 20 12:20 BST (UK)
Guy just told us what we already knew, Igor.

To be fair to Guy and Igor, I think they were just trying to calm the individuals on this thread. I was a very late riser this morning (just!) as I'm currently on New York time watching the tennis, so I've only just caught up on the recent posts on here. I could sense the mounting hysteria as people seem to be tuning in to just about every piece of news, and every statistic they can set their eyes on.

I wish everyone would calm down a bit. I know its all very worrying but it seems that the government are, once again, doing a good job in panicking as many people as they can. (They really do need to decide whether its the populace or the economy they wish to save and direct their edicts accordingly).

On a lighter note, I wonder if it will be toilet rolls and pasta again this time round? Always was totally unfathomable to me why those particular items were the items of choice for the hoarders. This time, how about domestos and pink gin? Tomato ketchup and oven chips? If I was a bookie, I think I'd open up a book on it!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: ReadyDale on Wednesday 09 September 20 13:22 BST (UK)
On a lighter note, I wonder if it will be toilet rolls and pasta again this time round? Always was totally unfathomable to me why those particular items were the items of choice for the hoarders. This time, how about domestos and pink gin? Tomato ketchup and oven chips? If I was a bookie, I think I'd open up a book on it!!!  ;D
I'm sure there'll be some that still have their "surplus" and will make a killing  ::)
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Rishile on Wednesday 09 September 20 14:02 BST (UK)
I have visited our local Morrisons this morning.  They have two doors and they have been 'in' and 'out' all through the pandemic.  Now it's a free-for-all.  No counting people going in our out, no queuing outside or a single queue for the check-out.  Signs for social distancing have disappeared (not that we really need them) although the screens at the check-outs are still there.  However, no butchery department, no tea-shop, no cheese counter, no pie counter.  Although it was fairly quiet, there was very little social distancing.

Rishile
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Maiden Stone on Wednesday 09 September 20 15:40 BST (UK)
Four schools in my area, I don't see any school-buses, the kids either walk or get lifted by their grannies. Mostly the latter I think?  ;D

Skoosh.
That obviously means something else in this area compared with in Scotland :o ;D
The explanation is simple -  Supergran is Scottish. Lifting kids is easy for her. She can lift cars.  :)
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: majm on Wednesday 09 September 20 20:52 BST (UK)
 ;D ;D ;D

L I F T E D .... well here in New South Wales, Australia ... lifted can mean  'nicked' as in stolen or another meaning is 'Dug up"  .... so when someone steals your photos off your online tree, they have  LIFTED them.... but when you  are in your garden and deliberately put your spade below your spuds to bring them to the surface to harvest them, you have lifted them. 

But when Gran drives her car to school to pick up the kiddies.... Gran is COLLECTING them,  the kids are NOT hitching a lift as the transport  arrangement is made between the adults, ..  ;D ;D ;D so those kids are not lifted by their Grans .... super or otherwise...

JM
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Wednesday 09 September 20 22:08 BST (UK)
Guy just told us what we already knew, Igor.

To be fair to Guy and Igor, I think they were just trying to calm the individuals on this thread. I was a very late riser this morning (just!) as I'm currently on New York time watching the tennis, so I've only just caught up on the recent posts on here. I could sense the mounting hysteria as people seem to be tuning in to just about every piece of news, and every statistic they can set their eyes on.

I wish everyone would calm down a bit. I

I see no hysteria, just people discussing the latest news.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: ReadyDale on Wednesday 09 September 20 22:21 BST (UK)
;D ;D ;D

L I F T E D .... well here in New South Wales, Australia ... lifted can mean  'nicked' as in stolen or another meaning is 'Dug up"  .... so when someone steals your photos off your online tree, they have  LIFTED them.... but when you  are in your garden and deliberately put your spade below your spuds to bring them to the surface to harvest them, you have lifted them. 

But when Gran drives her car to school to pick up the kiddies.... Gran is COLLECTING them,  the kids are NOT hitching a lift as the transport  arrangement is made between the adults, ..  ;D ;D ;D so those kids are not lifted by their Grans .... super or otherwise...

JM
Ah, so it's either stealing the kids, or putting a shovel underneath them!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Guy Etchells on Thursday 10 September 20 07:46 BST (UK)
I think most of us do know about the stages of trialing drugs, etc., Guy

It's still worrying.

Depends what you mean by worrying! It is not uncommon that people undergoing vaccine trials fall ill; for instance in July a woman undergoing the same vaccine trial fell ill but it was not due to the vaccine but because she had multiple sclerosis.
The latest news is the person had transverse myelitis and was about to be discharged from hospital.

The problem now is to try to discover whether the transverse myelitis was caused by the administration of the vaccine or was caused by an unconnected reason. A 2018 study showed it could be caused by vaccines but it also occurs randomly in the population.

I suggest we should be reassured by the pause in the trail rather than worried as it shows the safety controls are working rather than being ignored in the rush to produce a vaccine.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 10 September 20 08:36 BST (UK)
I'm not anxious  - perhaps less so than most of the  people on these threads. I worked in medical settings for a good part of my working life and am used to such reports and methods.  I  follow all the guidance, perhaps more strictly than most.

It's worrying because it's not usual for such pauses, etc, to be announced. There was a previous one back in July that wasn't announced. I'm not sure if it was the same condition as the present one. It might be that it was announce to dampen down the hype put out by the US President and others.

I am worried about the long term effects  on the physical and mental health of others and their economic situation.  I'm lucky that I have a large house and a garden, am affluent middle class, can get in a car and take trips to the coast and countryside, etc., etc. It's the poor, sick, homeless, etc. who suffer most.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Thursday 10 September 20 08:59 BST (UK)
I suggest we should be reassured by the pause in the trail rather than worried as it shows the safety controls are working rather than being ignored in the rush to produce a vaccine.
Cheers
Guy
I think we all already assumed that the Oxford researchers knew how to follow proper procedures in carrying out trials so I don't see why we should be told to find this reassuring.
The illness suffered by the person in the trial may be nothing to do with the vaccine or it could be a side effect. Further investigation will clear this up.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Thursday 10 September 20 10:25 BST (UK)
I am worried about the long term effects on the physical and mental health of others and their economic situation. ... . It's the poor, sick, homeless, etc. who suffer most.

That is kind to think of others.

It is awful to see people of all ages who have been badly affected, with their health and/or losing their work and incomes.
 ----------
Covid-19 was in the UK population during the end of 2019, being found in UK lung samples of a man who died last year.

Regarding vaccines, the media are watching developments here and everything gets reported.

UK Coronavirus has not gone away and we'll have to continue with Social Distancing etc, and live with it around us.

Best wishes all, Mark
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Caw1 on Thursday 10 September 20 10:46 BST (UK)
It is natural that during trials there are going to be issues like the current one... surely that's the purpose of trials in the first place...isn't it?

I do feel that the media just love to jump on anything they are going to make capitol out of to put fear among the populous... for those who believe everything they say its a problem but for the rest one can sift through what is real and what isn't it.

I noted when the initial report about the fact that a person on the trial was unwell they used two very differing contentious words one alluding to the fact the illness was due to the vaccine given and the other was they were unwell with something else.... I find this kind of reporting of miss facts very common particularly with the BBC.

I would much rather the trials were paused so investigations can be done as to the reasons this illness/reaction has occurred. After all they are taking part in this trial for the good of us all so I thank them for that.
Yes, we all want the vaccine as soon as possible but not at the expense of it being rushed because the media are down their throats all the time!

Caroline
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Thursday 10 September 20 11:26 BST (UK)
Caroline

The media reporting is negative and I'm annoyed with the blame the government attitude.

Those in Government and Local Authorities must be working their socks off too!

Mark
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 10 September 20 12:56 BST (UK)
Caroline

The media reporting is negative and I'm annoyed with the blame the government attitude.

Those in Government and Local Authorities must be working their socks off too!

Mark

I'm really not sure what you are saying, Mark.

No one is blaming the Govt or LAs for the trials being paused. We're just noting it. As others have said - rather pause and investigate than ignore. It is also a procedural requirement.

The reports that I've read in various media have merely reported that the trials have been paused for further investigations. 

Caroline -  I really think that you've misunderstood the reports. I'm not a fan of some parts of the BBC but, in this case, they've reported the facts.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Llwyd on Thursday 10 September 20 19:44 BST (UK)

It's worrying because it's not usual for such pauses, etc, to be announced.


But then the circumstances in which we find ourselves are not usual!. However, it does make for lurid headlines, especially because it has occurred in the U.K..
 :)
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 10 September 20 19:51 BST (UK)

It's worrying because it's not usual for such pauses, etc, to be announced.


But then the circumstances in which we find ourselves are not usual!. However, it does make for lurid headlines, especially because it has occurred in the U.K..
 :)

Typical of you Llwyd - selective quoting.

 


It's worrying because it's not usual for such pauses, etc, to be announced. There was a previous one back in July that wasn't announced. I'm not sure if it was the same condition as the present one. It might be that it was announce to dampen down the hype put out by the US President and others.

I am worried about the long term effects  on the physical and mental health of others and their economic situation.  I'm lucky that I have a large house and a garden, am affluent middle class, can get in a car and take trips to the coast and countryside, etc., etc. It's the poor, sick, homeless, etc. who suffer most.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 10 September 20 20:12 BST (UK)
The reports that I've read in various media have merely reported that the trials have been paused for further investigations. 

Caroline -  I really think that you've misunderstood the reports. I'm not a fan of some parts of the BBC but, in this case, they've reported the facts.

"Coronavirus: Oxford University trial paused after participant falls ill" BBC News website 9th Sept.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-54082192
Factual, informative reporting. Includes links to associated articles.
Includes analysis by Fergus Walsh, Medical Editor. (Fergus Walsh has decades of experience reporting on science and medicine for BBC. He's on "Newsnight" sometimes to explain detail. I reckon he knows his stuff.)
Headlines on TV news or in newspapers may appear alarming but they are headlines to attract attention.

"Science Focus" BBC "Science Focus" magazine 5th Sept.
https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/covid-19-who-should-get-a-vaccine-first/
Has links to related articles in previous editions.

"Inside Science" programme Radio 4 today, repeated tonight, had an item on C-19 vaccines. I switched on late in programme. Interviewee said the work done this year might have taken a decade in normal times.   
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 10 September 20 20:20 BST (UK)
Also a very good update article in The Times today. It's an interview with the Astrazeneca boss. The Times is paywall.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 10 September 20 20:34 BST (UK)

I do feel that the media just love to jump on anything they are going to make capitol out of to put fear among the populous... for those who believe everything they say its a problem but for the rest one can sift through what is real and what isn't it.

I think the main reason for startling headlines is to attract readers/viewers/listeners/purchasers. People pay more attention to news in a crisis.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Llwyd on Thursday 10 September 20 20:54 BST (UK)

It's worrying because it's not usual for such pauses, etc, to be announced.


But then the circumstances in which we find ourselves are not usual!. However, it does make for lurid headlines, especially because it has occurred in the U.K..
 :)

Typical of you Llwyd - selective quoting.

 


It's worrying because it's not usual for such pauses, etc, to be announced. There was a previous one back in July that wasn't announced. I'm not sure if it was the same condition as the present one. It might be that it was announce to dampen down the hype put out by the US President and others.

I am worried about the long term effects  on the physical and mental health of others and their economic situation.  I'm lucky that I have a large house and a garden, am affluent middle class, can get in a car and take trips to the coast and countryside, etc., etc. It's the poor, sick, homeless, etc. who suffer most.

And your point is?.
 It seemed to me that is what is being discussed and I made a comment. The fact I had no need or wish to make any point on the rest of your post is neither here nor there.
Should you wish me to do so, then I will oblige you.
 :)


 
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: BushInn1746 on Thursday 10 September 20 23:36 BST (UK)

I do feel that the media just love to jump on anything they are going to make capitol out of to put fear among the populous... for those who believe everything they say its a problem but for the rest one can sift through what is real and what isn't it.



Caroline

The media reporting is negative and I'm annoyed with the blame the government attitude.

Those in Government and Local Authorities must be working their socks off too!

Mark

Not linking my comment to vaccine trials, just a general comment.
Title: Re: Who remembers social distancing?
Post by: Liam59 on Saturday 12 September 20 18:11 BST (UK)
Oxford University is now resuming their vaccine trial:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54132066