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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: defallowfield on Sunday 23 August 20 12:18 BST (UK)
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Good morning,
I've been getting some great help in my search for my Tweedie relatives both in England and Scotland so I wondering if I will be lucky in this request:
Peter Tweedie sometimes known as Peter Ross Tweedy married Martha Ann Mantel in 1865.
I can find them in the 1871 census but then they disappear.
Martha reappears in 1925 under the name Martha Ann Ross Tweedy within the PRO records but I just cannot find either of them in the 1881, 1891 1901 or 1911 censuses.
I have looked and looked but perhaps I have looked so hard I have missed them and they are staring straight at me...
1871 they are living in Mile End New Town
1925 Martha is a widow living at Peckham
I don't think that they had any children.
Peter used to be in the navy but after marriage and in the 1871 census states that he is a tailor (like him father had been).
Martha says she is a tailoress.
Is anyone able to find them?
With kind regards,
Kir
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Can you include birthyears and birthplaces please
Did they marry in England or Scotland?
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Full 1871 details
Peter R Tweedy 30 b St George in the East Middlesex
Martha 25 b Spitalfields Middlesex
RG10 Piece 515 Folio 28
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Sorry, Carole. I forgot those important bits.
Peter was born 1841 in Spitalfields although sometimes he pretended that he was born in 1839
Martha was born c.1847
They married within the church of St Botolph Bishopsgate in 1865. Peter calls himself Peter Ross Tweedy from now on. (Ross was his mother's maiden name)
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Martha reappears in 1925 under the name Martha Ann Ross Tweedy within the PRO records
Died 13.3.1925 Surrey according to probate entry - address 47 Crofton Rd Peckham. Have you downloaded a copy of her will?
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On the Surrey ER's for 1934 - 1938 is an entry for a Peter Tweedily. The surname is spelt the same on each of the separate entries.
However - no birth or death in England for that name and your Peter would have been in his 90's by then
EDIT
DUH - Martha was a widow when she died in 1925 so how can it be Peter on a 1934 ER ::)
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Peter Tweedie sometimes known as Peter Ross Tweedy married Martha Ann Mantel in 1865.
Think they married 1863--just being picky!
John
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Martha Ann is in about 40 trees on Ancestry.
I wonder if any one of them has got the missing censuses.
Added: Looks like a No.
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On the probate Martha is living at 47 Crofton Road Peckham, and probate to Eliza Morgan wife to John Charles Morgan.
On the ER for 1924 for 47 Crofton Road are living Eliza, Jack Edward and John Charles (J) Morgan. They are there in other years 1922, 1926 etc, 1925 not available?
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A quick bit of work suggests no obvious links between the Morgans and Martha
John Charles and Eliza born c1863. Her maiden name is Parsons
His mother's maiden name was Ritchings
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Yes, I also had a little look for a link. I was hoping for something.
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Thanks everyone for your help. It's a tricky one.
Yes they were married in 1863. You go to press one button on the computer but your finger presses another one instead! ;D
I don't believe that the Morgans are related to Martha and she isn't living with them in the 1911 census. I haven't thought about obtaining Martha's will. I just presumed that she left her money to them. As an aside, I haven't been able to find a death registration for Martha either!
I should point out that I looked also to see if they were perhaps living in Scotland but I couldn't find anything there either.
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Here is her death registration!
ROSSTWEEDEY, MARTHA ANN
Age at Death (in years): 79
GRO Reference: 1925 M Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 934
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And a burial, 18 March 1925
Martha Ann Rosstweedey
Authority Southwark
Two others in grave
(Deceased Online free index)
Going through this link, it seems that Martha was buried at Camberwell Old Cemetery.
https://www.southwark.gov.uk/births-deaths-marriage-and-citizenship/deaths-funerals-and-cremations/genealogical-searches
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In 1881 in Limehouse there is
Martha Ross, Wife, 34, Tailoress, born Middlesex Mile End
Henry Ross, Son, 8 , Scholar, Middlesex Mile End
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK6T-L4KS
In West Ham in 1891, but says Peter born in Scotland
piece 1329 folio 51 page 50
Peter Ross Head 48 Mariner Merchant Service, born Scotland Leith
Martha Ross Wife 44 Tailoress London Mile End OT
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLHX-6PZ
1901 in Bethnal Green
piece 293 folio 134 page 62
Marther Ross Lodger Married 52 Trousers Finisher London Spitalfields
With the Lea family
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9D6-W2T
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Well that is very interesting and intriguing, Jonw65
It certainly seems correct, doesn't it. There are lots of indicators.
I've tried to find a birth or a death for Henry 'Ross' but no luck yet.
Cheers
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22nd May 1888 Peter Ross age 44 of Leith was in the Dreadnought Seaman's hospital (London) for strictures (?) released on May 28th for convalescence.
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In again in February 10th 1891, for 39 days, disposed for convalescent. Slightly different age, and just 'Scotland' so could be a different man.
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from 'the Canada, Seafarers of the Atlantic Provinces, 1789-1935'
original not available
Peter Ross age 44, born about 1844 in Leith, Scotland, was crew on the Otago which departed from Dunkirk, France on the 21st February 1888 and arrived in London on 21st May 1888
The vessel registration number was Y874026 and it was registered at Yarmouth, Nova Scotia and built in 1874
Peter Ross joined the present ship on 18th April 1888 at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
His crew number was 24 (or there were 24 crew)
He signed his name and he completed what he was signed on to do.
He was discharged on 21st May 1888 at the end of the voyage in London, and his ranking was an able-bodied seaman.
I think his wage was 25 US dollars (per month?) and he had an advance of 35 US dollars.
Added:
Was in hospital by next day?
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For the back burner 1911 census ref RG14 piece 30614 page 25. A Peter Ross aged 69 born London "sailor" -merchant, single.
There are 2 Peter Ross's in Elswick Northumberland on 1911 census, the other is with family that match. Both have dob c1841
There are 2 deaths in that area again with age matching birth c1841/2.
1.Peter Ross (72) jq 1914 Newcastle upon Tyne 10b 8
2.Peter Ross (81) dq 1923 " " " " 10b 129
John
Not sure who is who though.
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Well that jolly interesting. Now if we could get a copy of his signature we would know because I have two examples.
I sure do hope this proves to be him because he sounds as if he led an interesting life.
I've been looking for some time and I know that that generation of the family were seafaring.
Thanks chempat
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Suggestion to look here to find out if you can see original copies, not just the database. (For money)
https://www.mun.ca/mha/research.php
Added:
Some are free.
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Thank you, John.
That's the problem when you have someone with a relatively common name who likes to change it every now and then...
I see that the one born in London says he is single but he may have split up from Martha of course. I wonder if he has put his signature on the census or someone else filled it out because I have a couple of samples of his signature.
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For the back burner 1911 census ref RG14 piece 30614 page 25. A Peter Ross aged 69 born London "sailor" -merchant, single.
I can see in Canada some records of a 'merchant' Peter Ross who owned a boat, and thought he was a different man to the able-bodied seaman.
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I've tried to find a birth or a death for Henry 'Ross' but no luck yet.
There may be a reason for that
Morning Post, 17 November 1886
Police Intelligence.
Thames.
Henry Harris, 14, was charged with stealing £18, the money of Martha Ross, of Harford-street, Mile-end. —The complainant had adopted the prisoner since his mothers death, having kept him during the last 11 years, and hitherto his conduct had been very good. On the 3d of October Mrs. Ross had £20 in gold in a wooden box, and on going to the box on Wednesday last she missed it all but £2. She asked the prisoner where the money had gone, and he replied, " I have not seen it." On Saturday last she again asked him what he had done with the money, and he said, " I took it and spent it all. I went to Levton and Ilford, and took a lot of boys with me."—Samuel Sampson, a plain-clothes sergeant apprehended the prisoner, and in answer to the charge he said, " I took £2 at a time on four occasions, and on the fifth occasion I took £3 and spent all of it." Sergeant Sampson said the prisoner had been to music halls and theatres with a number of boys, and he had purchased, amongst other things, a canary, a watch, and some gold rings.—Mr. Saunders said the prisoner had behaved very badly and dishonestly indeed, and he ordered him to receive 10 strokes with a birch rod.
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Well, explains why I could not find a birth for him.
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Oh dear!! Well that explains it. I feel so sorry for Martha.
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I think that "Merchant" written in the 1911 census on the Elswick record of Peter Ross is probably for "Merchant Service" as per 1891.
John
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Yes, when I looked at the original to see how others were recorded, that did seem a probable explanation.