RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: maggbill on Thursday 27 August 20 12:52 BST (UK)
-
This really is a mysterious one.
Johanna McKay married Donald Stewart in St. Mary's RC Cathedral Aberdeen (though no other indication of RC religion) on 20/10/1914. She names parents as John McKay, crofter and Margaret McIver. When husband Donald Stewart is killed in action WW1 (1916) - she receives war pension in 1919, and she states her date of birth as 4th August 1882. When she died in 1953 her son does not give a name of her father, but only "mother, Margaret McKay".
Have searched at great length and not finding birth entry for Margaret McKay for the precise date of 4/8/1882, nor Catholic baptism records. Only 2 children of her name born in Scotland in 1882 - "Johanna McKay born 9/8/1882 Knockbain, illegitimate, mother Jessie McKay" - another "Johanna McKay 4/12/1881 (registered 17/1/1882) - illegitimate, mother Margaret McKay Achmore Lochs". This second seems possible, but date of birth different.
So mystery - if in fact she was born as stated at marriage, to John McKay and Margaret McIver, why am i not finding her - even with a good wide time frame. Also not finding a marriage for John McKay / Margaret McIver. Birth not registered under McIver either. Was her birth in fact not registered?
The fact that she and Donald were married in the Catholic church is interesting too - first Catholics I have ever found in this line I think! They had 4 or 5 children before they were married - and I would have thought that with there being so little Catholic connection from either party, marriage in the church would not have been easily allowed??? And if Johanna gives her two parents names.. then the birth found in December 1882 to Margaret McKay cannot be correct!
Anyone got any ideas? Hope I haven't asked this question before - have just revisited the family and realised the discrepancies re Johanna's birth and parentage.
-
I'm confused, are you looking for her birth or baptism? The civil registration indexes on ScotlandsPeople do not give parents' names so you need to buy some credits and look at the records. I see you have done that, there is another in 1882 under MACKAY, and I wouldn't be too fussy about the year being correct.
Have you found her on any census with both parents? Where was she living when she married? Witnesses?
If she was illegitimate then there is no reason why she couldn't have fibbed and made up a father when she married.
Debra :)
-
Hi,
Does Johanna's statutory marriage record have her mother's name as Margaret McKay (m.s. McIver) or just Margaret McIver?
As said by Dundee - have you located Johanna on 1891, 1901 & 1911 Census. Where is she? Who is she with? And where is her place of birth?
You say she had at least 5 children ? Do their names give a clue to her parentage ? Is there a possibility she followed the Scots habit of the traditional naming pattern?
Looby :)
-
Hi Dundee,
I am looking for her birth, no success, so had a look for baptism, considering the Marriage in RC Cathedral in Aberdeen, but have not found either - and yes, - have spent quite a few credits looking at the actual records.. They were living in Aberdeen in 1914, at same address in 1911 census - already with children. (Did not find in 1901). Having said that, you have made me really look at it again, and 1911 census states that she was born in "Rosshire, Achmore" .... so that would make me think that the birth I found in "Achmore, Lochs, on 4/12/1881 - Johanna McKay, illegitimate - to Margaret McKay" is the most likely. Which means that the two pieces of information which you would normally expect to be most reliable - being "primary" - info given by herself i.e. marriage /parents names)... and precise date of birth given when she herself applied for War Pension are both wrong! She was 9 months older than stated.. and yes, she seems to have invented a fathers name and changed her mothers surname!! for the marriage? Witnesses at marriage were unknown/unfamiliar names.
Knowing how strict RC rules were, they possibly had to be fairly inventive to bypass them, and be married, (though why they choose the church?) before he went off to war, - just in case he died, so she would get pension, which is exactly what happened.
I will try again to find previous census - though there are a considerable number of "McKays" to check out. Thanks for your comments... made me look closer at 1911 census... But am coming to conclusion that Johanna certainly was not one for precision in important details lol - and that I have already got her birth!
-
I see she was with Donald in 1911 prior to marriage so that is no help. Some others to try:
MACKAY, JOHAN
F
1882
056/ 32
Tongue
MACKAY, JOHANN
F
1882
361/ 13
Killin
MACKAY, JOAN
F
1882
646/2 983
Govan
Also a few others in 1882 but with middle names.
Debra :)
-
Which means that the two pieces of information which you would normally expect to be most reliable - being "primary" - info given by herself i.e. marriage /parents names)... and precise date of birth given when she herself applied for War Pension are both wrong! She was 9 months older than stated.. and yes, she seems to have invented a fathers name and changed her mothers surname!!
That would be too easy and we can't have that!
Debra :)
-
HI Loobylooayr,
When Johanna was married she gave her mothers name as Margaret Mackay (ms MacIver) - a name which I have never seen elsewhere. Her childrens names do not reflect "grandparents" names ... No McIver, though a Margaret, and no "John"... I did struggle to find censuses for her for 1891 and 1901, but will give that another try.... as stated in my last post, the 1911 census said place of birth was Rosshire, Achmore... so am coming to conclusion that her parents named at marriage are very questionable, and even her stated date of birth when she applied for her husbandswar pension was wrong...
-
Hi Dundee,
Thanks for the 3 suggestions re McKay Johan... but as I now realise 1911 census says place of birth Rosshire Achmore... so think these 3 are bit vague... might spend credits on further chasing of census, rather than these 3
-
Hi.
Her place of birth on the Census sounds to me as if it could be accurate info - Achmore, Rosshire doesn't seem like a placename someone would invent unlike altering birthdate or mother's maiden names/marital status or unknown fathers.
Looby :)
-
Seeing that there were only 2 Johanna Mckays births registered in Rosshire between 1881 & 1882 I agree that the one registered in Lochs is most likely the correct one.
flst
-
There is a Johanna McKay in 1891 Living at Achmore, Lochs with a John McKay, Crofter and his wife Catherine and children including Johanna. Johanna's age is given as 7 making her born in 1884. It dosen't state if any of the children are John and Catherine (perhaps they are grandparents?)
Hope this helps
Terry
-
I was just about to post my findings of the 1891 census, It differs from yours though,Terry. At Auchmore, living with her grandparents, John & Mary Mckay is a Johanna Mcleod aged 9. Also there is her possible mother, Peggy McKay aged 30
flst.
-
There are 2 births for Johanna McKay in Lochs, one in 1883 and one in 1884 maybe one of these two??
Terry
-
I was just about to post my findings of the 1891 census, It differs from yours though,Terry. At Auchmore, living with her grandparents, John & Mary Mckay is a Johanna Mcleod aged 9. Also there is her possible mother, Peggy McKay aged 30
flst.
Most likely it will be the one you found :) The McLeod is a bit strange though?
Terry
-
Not strange at all Terry. If the father of an illegitimate child was not present at the registration then his surname couldn't be used. Many illegitimate children were brought up using either of their parents surnames (or any other surname). Peggy Mckay appears in the censuses going backwards at home with her parents. She also had another daughter,( I assume), Mary, age 3 in 1881. She could be a niece though! Peggy also had a brother, Donald & a sister, Isabella.
flst
-
It appears that Johanna named her grandparents as her parents on the marriage certificate. Her grannys' maiden name was MacIver (as noted on the birth of Peggy on 18th July 1856).
flst
-
Well done flat.
I would say that is the correct Johanna.
Looby :)
-
Wow everybody - While I have been having a good sleep here in Oz, you all have found some very interesting stuff.... like the possibility that Johanna used her grandparents names as parents ... Will have to take it all in, and try to make total sense of it ???? Sometimes so hard, but that is the joy of eventually sorting out the mystery! With multiple help from Rootschatters again!
-
Hi
attached is some info from croft histories of lochs
-
Sorry everyone, have had a busy day, and though trying to wrap my brain around all the info, am a bit confused..... so many McKays... "Margaret", "Peggy", John, Johanna McLeod... John with wife Catherine... Really must leave it and revisit it all tomorrow - less "brain fade"! Thanking you all for the info... ("Croft histories of Lochs" - is that a generally available source?).... Get back to you within a day or so...
-
hi
croft histories is a collection from a resident genealogist on Isle of Lewis,
its available at
https://www.hebrideanconnections.com/home-page
the info attached can be followed back to 1780 by clicking on the highlighted names
achmore had lots of Mackay crofts
-
hi
we had the same problem your having with a Johana Smith from lewis
she lived with her grandparents under the name Smith
she went by johana and joan,
later her mother moved to Glasgow and married a Donald MacKay
then when Johana herself married she married under the name Mackay,
so if your magaret married later she may not have married on Lewis
-
Hi everyone,
Busy weekend, but just sorted out my Johanna McKay info, and to be truthful, am still pretty mystified. I do think that the birth I found (4 December 1881, registered Jan 1882), of Johanna McKay illegitimate at Achmore Lochs, to Margaret McKay, domestic servant... is the strongest option even with "wrong" date of birth according to later applicaton for War pension. And having said that, have had yet another revisit to the 1891 and 1901 census, - (she is with Donald Stewart and children in Aberdeen in 1911) - but the two previous census are so confusing. The most enticing 1891 and 1901 I found turned out to be the one family John McKay and wife Catherine and children... "mother" being "Catherine" not good... Which now takes me to suggestion of FLST - re 1891 census of John and Mary McKay, daughter Peggy and Johanna McLeod. There are 5 births for JOhanna McLeod at Lochs, between 1880 and 1885 - most obvious one at 1882 - not correct - and running out of "credits" to look at all others! If in fact "Peggy MacKay" was my Johanna's mother - i have a problem with the grannys maiden name being "Mary McIver m.s." - according to my JOhannas marriage statement it should be "Margaret McIver"... Now does it sound as if i am going around in circles? Think I am about to opt for the most obvious but not totally verified birth in December 1882 to good old plain Margaret McKay... I am appreciative of all the efforts, but think that this might just be one of those mysteries which will remain. I thought that the Stewarts and McMillans of the North East were confusing... must say that over in the West in Lochs, Rosshire, they are just as mystifying....
-
nope your not going crazy
been through it worn the teeshirt
and have nt been locked away yet
in regards to name being different
in places like lewis most spoke gaelic back then
and still do, age's and names often where
wrongly transcribed
specially when the person moved to cities on the mainland
and could only speak gaelic,
names where often translated wrongly,
if on her marriage she gave her grandparents names
instead of her mothers it suggests her mother
left after her birth perhaps to find work and later married
on Johanas death cert possibly whoever registered it did nt know
the mothers maiden name or her mother had later married a MacLeod,
-
hi
this may be of some help,
there is 2 Joan MacKays associated with 9 Achmore, Lochs
Joan born 1884 of John MacKay & Catherine Matheson She married A John MacKay born 1879
also of 9 Achmore,
Joan Mackay born 1882 daughter Of Margaret MacKay who is daughter of John Mackay & Mary MacIver,
no other details are given for Margaret or Joan only that Margaret had 2 children Joan & John,
a birth year of 1885 is given for john,
this info is from the North Lochs Historical Society,
the fact that there is no more info on Margaret or her children may suggest they left The island,
there is however more info on Margarets siblings and grandparents
-
Hi Again Raonull4,
This looks good - Another late evening for me - so will try to have a look at the info from the Historical society tomorrow.... Seems like the jigsaw puzzle might be solvable after all! Cheers - and thanks a million for your interest and help!
-
possible sighting of Margaret and both kids Johana And John
1891 on dumbarton census johana's age is right John and Margarets out
sorry i m out of credits but worth a look
-
possible sighting of Margaret and both kids Johana And John
1891 on dumbarton census johana's age is right John and Margarets out
sorry i m out of credits but worth a look
Peggy & Johanna are at Auchmore, Lochs in 1891, as per my previous post.
flst
-
hi
there should also be a john with them Margaret had 2 children Johana and John. john Born 1845
-
sorry that should be 1885, Margaret ( Peggy) was born 1856
-
I am aware that there was a John born in 1885. He is not there with his mother but, did he die before 1891 or is he with his paternal family?
flst
P.S.Just checked, & there is a death in Lochs of a John Mckay who died in 1886 before his first birthday.
-
yes that could be him
-
Hi Again FSLT and Raonull4,
Have found the death of John McKay 13 Dec 1884 - (registered 23 Jan 1885) - age 8 days, cause "unknown - 3 days no medical attendant", mother Margaret McKay, domestic servant. Informant mother - "her mark". So could be ours..... Interestingly on same page there is a 24 year old fisherman (one of the many McIvers), and a 21 year old teacher, both dying of Tuberculosis.. Life sure was hard. Have also checked out McKays/ Dumbarton census 1891 - but definitely not the family looking for ie. father Patrick, spirit merchant - lots of children including two medical students, a marine engineer, and a Teacher of music - and Johanna age 10 and John 8 both scholars. Definitely a different "social strata" from my McKays of Lochs. I have realised over this past week or two, delving into the Isles side of things, that my knowledge of Scottish genealogy is sadly lacking. Have been doing my own tree for years, but it has been all Scottish/Irish/Glasgow based. And I thought that my husbands was all NE - in particular Aberdeen/Elgin - but this foray into the McKay side of his family has proved very interesting. Love to find out what life was like - Lots of "highlanders/Islanders" came down to Glasgow for work, but it never dawned on me that such a big percentage of them only spoke Gaelic!
-
hi
starting to look like your now on the rght track for Magaret and Johana,
the next question is where did both go to between 1891 and 1901,
the grandparents died Mary MacIver 1892 John MacKay 1896,
the croft would then be passed to some else,
in the case 9 Achmore it passed to Donald MacKay,
Margarets brother who was married to Catherine MacLeod,
Margaret had 5 siblings 2 of whom married MacLeods,
so as you stand now in regards to Johana born 1882, 9 Achmore
1891 she appears to still be in lochs with her mother
1896 the grandfather dies the croft pass's to Donald
1901 question where is Margaret ( Peggy ) and Johana
still on the island or moved on,
all names you ve found on certs are names connected to the familly,
North lochs historical society may have some answers for you,
croft books also but in general once someone left the island info on them
stops unless they return,
i have a yearly mag sent to me every year and over the years there has
been photos of Mackays of Achmore published i ll check back over them
as the number of Achmore each person in the photo is listed underneath
so in the invent that Johana is the one your after you may end up with a photo
of an ancestor from lochs,
good luck and don t give up walls were built to be knocked down
-
this wont be much help in your search
but if found it very interesting
attachment from croft history
-
Newspapers can be a useful source of information. To that end, addresses are also useful.
What addresses do you see on the marriage certificate, 1914?
What address do you see for this family at Census 1901 and Census 1911?
What address do you see for death of Johanna STEWART, died 1953.
Donald STEWART died, 1916.......and his wife is applying for a pension three years later?
I am not seeing death, 1916, for Donald STEWART at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site.
Can you identify him please.....service number, burial place etc
Can you identify the children born to this couple....names and birth year.
Was Donald STEWART in the Army at the start of the War?. If he enlisted for the War, what was his civilian occupation.
-
Hi again Raonull4,
From knowing nothing about Western Isles genealogy, - there is nothing like being thrown into the deep end! Re 1901 census Margaret (or Peggy) and daughter Johanna MacKay - have looked, and finding at least 5 Peggy/Margaret of near ages in Barvas alone! Tried to link with 1901 census for Johanna relevant age - 1 Stornaway, 1 Lochs, - definitely not correct - and no others to link up with Barvas! Found a Johanna and a Margaret McKay in Kirkton Farr Sutherland - checked Johanna but born Durness.... So, in basic terms not finding either of them - hiding somewhere. i am very interested in the info you have put on from the Croft histories. To be truthful, I found the website a bit hard to follow, but am going to persevere - all a big learning curve for me.
Interestingly, I am also not finding Johanna's future husband Donald Stewart with his family in 1901 census - who are in Keithall Aberdeenshire. Have just remembered that when Donald was killed in WW1 in 1916, there was a small article in the Aberdeen Evening express 27th Mary 2016, which stated that he had been in the Gordon Highlanders from the age of 14 which would have been around 1899! So he could have been anywhere in Scotland??
Hi Wivenhoe, - yes... agree about newspapers - sometimes good hints. On Johanna and Donalds marriage 1914, address was 21 Jacks Brae Aberdeen - 1911 census Jack's Brae, - 1919 (final date when war pension awarded to Johanna)23 Jacks Brae - 1953 She was in Constitution Lane Aberdeen.. so they were fairly stable in Aberdeen area. I just notice that on 1911 census, Donalds age is stated as 36 - should have been 26!
I am focusing at the moment on Johanna's story - have got fair amount on Donald and their children - He died 2/3/1916 - no Burial site - name on Menin Gate Ypres. 3-5398 was his 1st Gordon Highlanders Regimental number. He was variously described as General Labourer or Pedlar.
-
hi maggbill
the info i have is from the Callanish croft books
achmore will be in the lochs books there by the local genealogist Bill Lawson
who has done extensive research and published most of it,
i sent that attachment because it showed where Johana's, Mackays
came from before Lochs, achmore was Mary Macivers familly,
the John smith who got the croft after Neil Mackay emigrated
his daughter Isabella gave us te exact same problem your having
she had a daughter Johana, Isabella left the island for Glasgow
leaving johana behind with grandparents,
names and dates where different on different certificates
took a long time sorting it out but got there in the end
eventually took a Dna test and it threw up allsorts of nice surprise's
and nice people,
in regards to hebridean connections
in the box for people type the names you know
example John Mackay lots appear but scroll till you find the John that married
Mary Maciver after you find him click the highlighted name from there you can his children
you can click on children and parents for more info
to search crofts change the people box to crofts and residence type achmore
then you ll find 9 achmore,
both John Mackay and Mary MacIvers deaths are on scotlands People
don t give up
-
I certainly won't give up! Must thank you - most helpful! In some ways even though this part of Scottish genealogy is complex, with so many extended families, and changes of names and Gaelic which I know nothing about - but in other ways the histories of the Crofts opens up different aspects... Bill Lawson has done a fantastic work - must try to do some general reading about it all...
-
hi maggbill
just read all posts again and a post by flst is very interesting
1891 census Johana McLeod 9 lochs with a Peggy ( Margaret) age is out for mother
none of John Mackay and Mary MacIvers other children called Johana
2 did marry McLeods but theres no Johana listed for those
1901 theres still a Johana McLeod at lochs right age on both census's
this is a big if was her father a Mcleod and did she adopt the name for a while
is any of Johana's children called Kenneth,
-
Hi again Raonull4,
Sorry to keep waffling on, but do you know of any books or articles which might give me any idea of the "relationship" between the crofters of the Isles and Highland Traveller families? I started this search initially finding it interesting that Johanna's husband, Donald Stewart, a "Highland Traveller", was born in Barvas, but I see from census that though Donalds father Hugh Stewart was born in Aberdeen, his own mother Henrietta (seemingly also maiden name Stewart) was also born in Barvas about 1854. Mind you according to her marriage her parents Peter Stewart and Hannah Chisholm were "Hawkers", not crofters. - So the connection with the Isles was further back than I realised. Looks like this could be a never ending obsession for me - just as well these are times of "isolation" - and winter still here in Aus. - good time for research.
-
hi
there will be books on travelers but its not a subject i ve looked into,
my last post might be a bit confussing the Johana Mcleod is with
John MacKay a and Mary macIver and peggy MacKay on the 1891 census,
id any of the stewarts where born on Lewis there should be info
on them on hebridean connections
-
Hi again,
Sorry, your last post is a bit like one I often receive from my sister who never uses punctuation - so found it a bit hard to read lol! I actually think that the 1891 census which FLST found is a most strong candidate for me. Johanna - correct age, yes "Peggy's age a bit out, but possible. Then are you saying that the name "Johanna" is unusual for John McKay and Mary McIvers families? and also for the McLeods? I did a search for a Johanna McLeod birth 1882, and found one, but mothers name was Anne.... So, could Peggy be naming her daughter McLeod in census, but not registered as such. And no, "Kenneth" is not a name that ever appears at all in Johanna's and Donalds family
-
Another day tomorrow.!!!... And yes, will do a bit of search for the Stewarts - though not sure that any of them were crofters.
-
hope you can read the attachment
-
hi
for Hugh Stewart Also search Ewen gaelic for Hugh
a Ewen and Henrietta in Uig, Ross and Cromarty 1881
possibly Ewen's brother with them and a daughter
-
maggbill, if you read reply number 9 you will see that I said I thought that the 1882 birth registration for Johanna McKay was the most likely one for Johanna McLeod.
Reply number 14 explains why her name was not registered under McLeod.
Regards,
flst
-
Hi FSLT
Thanks for this reminder - do believe you are right of course!
Raonull re your post number 39 - re two Johanna McLeods or relevant age in 1901 census in Lochs. Have checked them - first is part of a big family of McLeods age 19. The other is Johanna McLeod, domestic servant, age 20, listed in 5 Grimshader, living with George and Maggie McRae, a daughter in law and 3 grandchildren. Could be our Johanna???
Also re your post about Hugh Stewart, father of our Donald Stewart - Gaelic name Ewen - 1881 census. I do believe that this is our Hugh and Henrietta - and I know that I am straying from the original focus of all these posts - but will attach it here - and another mystery - "John Stewart" - possibly a brother - but there is a very strange "relationship" term... looks like "Accomanist" ????? Must say that it is the first Isles census where I have seen "Tinsmith" in the midst of so many crofters! McLeods on the page too.!
-
Sorry meant to mention that the 1881 Ewen and Henrietta Stewart census is in Parish of Uig, village of Eneclate. Can you enlighten me as to this location, in regards to Loch, and Barvas? Google maps might help!!
-
hi
The Hamlet of Eneclate, is south of Barvas in Shawbost,
Donald had a Sister Rachel
-
i m sure i ll be corrected if i m wrong
i think accomanist has something to do with music
-
hi maggbill
the address 37 Kiln on that census would look like this
photo of Norse mill And kilns Shawbost
-
Wow,
When I saw "Kiln" - the only thing i thought of was what is used for "baking" ceramics lolol! And I know that the Highland Travellers "on the road" lived in "bow tents" - but have never seen these types of "abodes"... They look really "ancient" ... "Norse"? Amazing.
-
"Shawbost Norse Mill and Kiln A short walk from the main A858 near Shawbost next to Loch Roinavat is a renovated pair of thatched buildings used in past times to process barley grain into meal. The buildings give a very rare glimpse into the Scandinavian past of Lewis. The mill was powered by water from the stream from the nearby Loch Roinavat." So in fact they weren't actually "houses"??!!
-
hi
most had living accomodation in those days the animals shared the accomodations with them
cooking utensils where normaly cast iron
-
hi maggbill
there appears to be a tree on ancestry for Johanna MacKay Stewart
born 1882 died 17th jan 1953 would you know Johanna from a photo
-
Hi Raonull4,
Sorry - have been quite busy over last few days - tomorrow also, so haven't had time to really "get it all together". There are actually 13 trees on Anc. for Johanna McKay - quite interesting to see the variety. Three of them are private, so don't know details. I have actually got a photo of Johanna from another and had it verified by the sister of my late husband - Brilliant to find it. Have had a look at some of the other trees, - the usual sort of stuff - some just take info from others trees without much verification and there is some confusion. One states her mother to be Catherine - we know about that option... One states her mother to be "McEwen"...Another states that she was born in the USA!!!!! One tree states that she marries a "James Stewart" instead of Donald... Haven't had an actual good look at all of them, but do think that the research we have done - with your help and all the input from Rootschatters, we are about as close to precision as is possible. I have always avoided the temptation of just adding details and info without actually spending the time and paying for the actual certificates to prove issues. But certainly with Johanna, we have seen that even the "official documents", can have quite confusing information. Will get to writing the story !!
-
hi
ancestry is useful as a guide but i never take anything at face value
from it unless documents back it up,
your situation is very similar to mine both lines of our familly
came from the islands in times when gaelic was their language
and often names and ages got transcrbed wrong,
but as was posted the use of places names such as achmore
in census that that ties in with everything i ve seen
so far for Johana,
if her grandparents are John MacKay and Mary MacIver
i believe their Marriage is in the OPR's on Scotlands People
1840,
and if thats them then John MacKays brother Neil married 1 of my Smiths,
you ll see them on the croft image i posted Neil and Marion
-
Hi Raonull4,
Who says "the tree is done"... never shall these words pass the lips of a true genealogist lololol! Found the marriage of John Mackay and Mary MacIver - thank you for that. Also have links to someone else with a tree, connected via Anc.... the "James Stewart" said to be the "second husband" of Johanna MacKay is said to be the father of her later two children - Alexander (1917 - have SP birth - says "illegitimate, - only mother, "Johanna McKay or Stewart, widow of Donald Stewart....") and Flora - said to have been born in 1921 - but haven't chased that one.
-
Hi again,
One of my original queries re Johanna McKay was re her religion and why she married in the Catholic church in 1914. And as we are quite strong in our connection to John McKay and Mary McIver, - had a further look at their marriage. Obviously OPR - Old Parish Registers - and the minister was Reverend Robert Findlayson - googled it, totally not expecting to find anything and lo and behold he was a man of some reputation. https://kinlochfc.org/rev-robert-finlayson-1793-1861-part-1-an-overview-of-his-life-and-ministry/ .... Link to his story - and there is also a part 2 which speaks more of Lochs. Obviously the articles are very focused on the religious point of view, but give some interesting comments re life on Lewis in those days. And it answers my question - that possibly Johanna McIver was not born a Catholic, - think neither was Donald Stewart ( will try to double check).. which still doesn't answer my question of how on earth the Catholic church in Aberdeen in those days was so open to their marriage! I know throughout the 20th century there were definite limitations on who would have been given the "sacrament" of Catholic marriage... interesting. The article re Reg. Findlayson - worth a look - re the Free Church etc.
-
hi maggbill
you ve been busy, free church or wee free as we know it,
or as i call it myself island mafia was most likely how Johana was brought up
as for marrying in a catholic church i think in those days you had to convert
and attend for a certain length of time before they d marry you,
i m not religous in any way so i know very little on the ways of the church,
could there be a connection between James and Donald Stewart,
John MacKay origonally came from Garynahine, and moved to Achmore Lochs
after marrying Mary MacIver posted is what i can see for Mary
-
Hi again,
The mystery remains re the Catholic marriage - cos you are right, the pre-requisites to getting married in the Catholic church were to convert, to bring the children up as Catholic, and the fact that Donald and Johanna had been together and had quite a few children before they finally got "hitched" wouldn't have gone well with the Catholic approach. I can't even see the "rules" being relaxed just because he was going off to War! Don't think the Church would have been so accommodating, unless either party could prove some "Catholicism"! Re James Stewart connection to Donald? Well, the Stewart NE families were numerous, - I only have 2 siblings listed for Donald - Mary born about 1875 in Stornaway, and Rachel Stewart b. abt 1888 in Rayne Aberdeenshire... (1891 census) - and 1901/1911 census give no further actual siblings... Would bet there were though. Very extensive confusing Stewart families some connected, some not.
-
hi
where and when was the children before the marriage born,
i m starting to think Johana left the island with the Stewart familly
or at least with Donald himself.
-
hi
Rachel Stewart may have died in Keithhall, Aberdeen 1896, 8 years old,
1901 Hugh and henrietta look to be in Inverurie, Aberdeen,
with other members of Hughs familly and possibly more children,
has Hugh 46 Henrietta 47
a child Henrietta 12
a Rachel 40 could be Hughs Sister
and others possibly his brothers