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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: kiwi48 on Thursday 27 August 20 23:06 BST (UK)
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I have been researching Jerry Buckley, who has a puzzling marriage date.
Jerry Buckley married Mary Shaw 8.1.1809 at Rochdale St Chads. Their son John was baptised 23 May 1800 at Friarmere Church, Saddleworth, 9 yrs before they were married. They also had a daughter Mary who was born around 1803. I can't find a baptism record for Mary but census and death records have given me a rough birth year. The children have the surname Buckley suggesting they were legitimate, yet the marriage record suggests otherwise. All the other information I have on Jerry and Mary ties in, except for their marriage date. Mary would have been 18 or 19 years old when her first child was born in 1800.
Has anyone else come across a similar anomaly? Could they have had a wedding prior to 1800 which was "unofficial"?
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I have a couple who married 12 years after the birth of their first child so the situation implied in your question could be as it appears, it would not have been a unique sequence of events. Perhaps Jerry was not free to marry before, or Mary's parents objected - she was under age.
But what evidence do you have that Mary Shaw was the mother of the children? Is it possible that Jerry was married previously and that he was looking for help with his young family after the death of his first wife?
I am intrigued by the name Jerry, which has a modern ring to it. I don't think I have come across it before in that era. Was he registered in that name at birth or might it have been Jeremiah or similar? And might his first marriage been in that name? You give no indication of his age.
More questions than answers, I'm afraid.
P S This could be a complete red herring, but Free Reg has record of the baptism of a Jeremiah Buckley at Saddleworth on 18 February 1775 son of John and Betty.
Jerry Buckley, buried 14 August 1858, Saddleworth. Age 83. (Family search)
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What children have you found after the marriage in 1809?
I agree with the suggestion that there was a first marriage for Jerry to a different Mary.
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There is a Jerry and Mary Buckley in Rochdale in 1841 ages 65 and 59, he is a weaver, your family?
Have you got him in 1851?
Added: There is a Joseph Mason age 13, collier, all born locally, in that household.
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P S This could be a complete red herring, but Free Reg has record of the baptism of a Jeremiah Buckley at Saddleworth on 18 February 1775 son of John and Betty.
Jerry Buckley, buried 14 August 1858, Saddleworth. Age 83. (Family search)
Perhaps another possibility -
Jerry Buckley. Baptised 5 March 1775. Saddleworth. Son of Sarah.
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There are several trees on Ancestry, but with different parents, wives and birth places, and marriages and children and deaths (including Ireland and USA connections). There are lots of Buckleys in that region of Lancashire/Yorkshire.
The 1858 burial is in Friarmere.
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Thank you very much for all the suggestions you sent through. I really appreciate them. Re Jerry's birth - yes, there are two possibilities, both for 1775 which I am sure is his birth year. It ties in with the census record and also his death certificate in 1758 which I obtained. He is named Jeremiah in his birth to John and Betty, (lived in Carcote Saddleworth) and named Jerry in his birth to Sarah Buckley, a spinster (Lynthwaites Saddleworth). I had ruled out Jerry's marriage to Mary Shaw in 1809 as a second marriage because it usually says on the marriage entry "widow" if the first wife had died, but I guess it's possible that was just an omission by whoever wrote the entry in the church register. So yes, it is possible that he married a woman called Mary prior to 1800 when John was born. That would mean that his first wife, Mary, died some time between 1802, when their daughter Mary was born and 1809, when he married for the second time (to Mary Shaw). I've been hopefully searching Ancestry this morning but I can't find a definite death for her. There are deaths for Mary Buckley in that period in the right general area but since she was married I'd expect the record to say Mary Buckley, wife of Jerry Buckley. I can't find any that say that. So yet another question mark. Re Jerry's children, the only baptism record I have found is for John in 1800. I can't find any others pre or post 1809. The only reason I found they had a daughter Mary is because the Joseph Mason you mention in the 1841 census is Jerry's grandson. His daughter Mary married a man called Joseph Mason. Mary died young and I was able to get a rough birth year from the death entry, which would be 1802/3. As I can't find a baptism for her it's possible Jerry had other children too, who either weren't baptised or were baptised in a church whose records haven't been put on Ancestry. You mention how unusual the name Jerry is. You're right - there are very few Jerry Buckleys but it is a strong family name in my line, which for generations followed the traditional naming pattern of naming the first son after the paternal grandfather. So I have Jerry Buckley (born 1881) who was the son of Benjamin Buckley (born 1859) who was the son of Jerrey Buckley (unusual spelling, born 1816) who was the son of Benjamin Buckley, born 1793/4 (birth year assessed from census and death records). Naturally I was expecting Benjamin born 1793 to be the son of a Jerry Buckley, assuming the naming pattern continued. In terms of age it's possible Jerry could be Benjamin's father. He would have been 18 or 19 when he married for the first time which is feasible. But with no record of a first marriage and no definite record of a death for his first wife I'm left with as many questions as answers. Frustrating, isn't it!
A few more things that puzzle me... The Benjamin born in 1793 married Ann Mallalieu and they eventually ended up at a pub called the Temple Inn in Waterhead. Intriguingly, in the 1871 census Joseph Mason (Jerry's grandson) is living with his family right next door to Benjamin Buckley's widow, Ann. It's possibly just coincidence as Joseph was a collier and was at a different address in each census. On the other hand... could there be something in it? Finally, I have Jerry's death certificate for 1858. He was no longer living at Cotemanheights (his abode in the 1841 census) but was widowed and had moved to a place called Back o th' meadows, which is less than a mile from the Temple Inn (where Benjamin lived prior to his death). The notifier for Jerry's death is a man called Buckley Bower, (born around 1823, so much younger that Jerry) who lived in Birks. Birks is very close to the Temple Inn and Back o'th meadows. I've yet to discover how he fits into the Buckley picture. If Jerry was indeed Benjamin's father, I would expect Benjamin to have notified Jerry's death, not Buckley Bower. I would really value any suggestions for getting further with this. I seem to go round in ever decreasing circles.
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Jerry Buckley married Mary Shaw 8.1.1809 at Rochdale St Chads. Their son John was baptised 23 May 1800 at Friarmere Church, Saddleworth, 9 yrs before they were married. They also had a daughter Mary who was born around 1803. I can't find a baptism record for Mary but census and death records have given me a rough birth year. The children have the surname Buckley suggesting they were legitimate, yet the marriage record suggests otherwise.
What was John's surname in the baptism register? What is the exact wording of the baptism entry?
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23rd May 1800
John son of Jerry and Mary Buckley.
The residence is dittoed from the previous one as ‘Oldtame’ . (Old Tame).
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23rd May 1800
John son of Jerry and Mary Buckley.
The residence is dittoed from the previous one as ‘Oldtame’ . (Old Tame).
That suggests to me that John was legitimate. If he was illegitimate it would have been "son of Jerry Buckley and Mary Shaw". Might be a clerical error of course.
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I had ruled out Jerry's marriage to Mary Shaw in 1809 as a second marriage because it usually says on the marriage entry "widow" if the first wife had died, but I guess it's possible that was just an omission by whoever wrote the entry in the church register. So yes, it is possible that he married a woman called Mary prior to 1800 when John was born.
Have you found marriages of other widowers married by the same clergyman at that church and were they denoted as widowers in the marriage register? Clergymen weren't always consistent. Jerry and Mary married by banns. That banns register is missing from the run on LANOPC.
One of my ancestors married for the second time in 1787. She was noted as widow in the marriage register but the fact that he was a widower wasn't recorded.
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I had a look at a number of marriage entries in that year and couldn't find any with the word widow in but that could of course be because none of them were. So the 1809 marriage could be a second marriage for Jerry but if it is I can't find any trace of a first marriage. I'm inclined to think he just got married several years after his first child John was born. Will keep digging.