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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Jeninnz on Saturday 29 August 20 06:03 BST (UK)

Title: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: Jeninnz on Saturday 29 August 20 06:03 BST (UK)
Hi,
I'm trying to find a birth and possible parents for a Isabella Lazenby. I have her marriage in Chelsea on 28 Sep 1776  at St Anne's Church, Soho, Westminster but I need a birth date to try and work out which of my James Shailer she married.
The two candidates are James Shailer born 1733, baptised Aug 1733 in Berkshire ( this family later moved to Chelsea) and James Shailer born abt 1749, baptised Nov 1750 in Berkshire ( this family also moved to Chelsea). The father of the younger James was brother to the older James born 1733
I hope this makes sense.
Many thanks
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: jonw65 on Saturday 29 August 20 10:20 BST (UK)
Hi
There is a burial at Kensington, 13 April 1813
James Shailer
abode Little Chelsea
age 66

A will proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 31 March 1814
Will of James Shailer otherwise Shailor, Gardner of Kensington
Free at the moment from TNA, also on ancestry
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D211251

It is brief, wife/executrix is Isabella.

Could this be Isabella's burial?
St Luke Chelsea, 8 March 1826
Isabella Shailer
abode Milmans Row
age 86 yrs
Burn to Death :(

John
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: jonw65 on Saturday 29 August 20 10:27 BST (UK)
That marriage 18 Sep 1776, St Anne Soho
By banns. James and Isabella both of the parish
Witnesses were henery (sic) Shailer and Elizth Griffith

Marital status not given.
If that is her burial in 1826, then Isabella would have been in her mid 30's on marriage (or was the age out?)
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: jonw65 on Saturday 29 August 20 10:53 BST (UK)
A John Lazenby married Elizabeth Fulton at St Anne later in 1776, no idea if connected.
Lazenbys in the Chelsea parish registers.

There is a short report in The Globe, 6 March 1826, of the inquest at Chelsea into the death of Mrs Shailer.
Unfortunately I only have the OCR text, which is too mangled to reproduce
Apparently gives an age. Expired on Thursday. Her clothes accidentally caught fire at breakfast on the previous Friday morning.
Verdict Accidental death.
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 29 August 20 11:20 BST (UK)
Mrs Shailer was aged 85.  Address given as Green's Yard, Millman-row. 
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: jonw65 on Saturday 29 August 20 11:25 BST (UK)
Thank you BumbleB :)
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: Jeninnz on Saturday 29 August 20 20:22 BST (UK)
Thank you all very much for that. Yes that is my Isabella but I'm no further ahead as to a birth for her.  I do wish our ancestors hadn't used the same Christian names for everyone!! 

If the 1776 marriage was the younger James Shailer born 1748 ish then the witness could have been his brother Henry. This James's parents were Anthony Shailer and Ann Vokins.

The James Shailer born 1733 had parents Thomas Shailer and Elizabeth Guy.  This James is the brother of Anthony who married Ann Vokins. Meaning the younger James is nephew to the older James. 
It's not an easy one for sure.  Some trees on Ancestry have the older James and others have the younger James.  All have Isabella born about 1740 but no sources for this to prove it.

Anyway thank you all for taking the time to look for me. I really appreciate it.
Jen
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 29 August 20 22:00 BST (UK)
Doesnít Johnís reply #1 suggest it is the younger James?
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: Jeninnz on Saturday 29 August 20 22:57 BST (UK)
Doesnít Johnís reply #1 suggest it is the younger James?

This is why I need a birthdate for Isabella as if it was James b 1733, she would have been 7yrs younger and if the James b 1748 she would have been about 7-8 yrs older !! No proof so far that she was born 1740!!  You get 1740 if the age of 86 at time of death is correct but I'm not convinced of this.  The date of death is correct.  I don't have a date of death for James 1733 but the James 1748 is the one died 1813.(I think)
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: jonw65 on Sunday 30 August 20 21:54 BST (UK)
Hi
Sorry we haven't come up with anything for Isabella.
I cannot see any baptisms of her children online either, could they have been at Kensington?  Where I think a there is a gap in online coverage.
Some trees say there was a daughter, Ann Vokins Shailer, born in 1780 :-\
Which, if true, points decidedly to the younger James being your man.
As here, a free something! (This one has James born 1733!)
https://www.ancestry.com.au/genealogy/records/james-shailer-24-12nm3tn

The James Shailer born 1733 had parents Thomas Shailer and Elizabeth Guy. 

So he was from Lambourn and may be the James Shayler who married Ann Haggart there, 23 June 1760
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NVML-D9D

Probable baptism at Lambourn for Ann, 17 Nov 1736, Ann Hagget, daughter of Robert + Susan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NGS2-G9D


After their marriage, a baptism to James and Anne Shailer at Lambourn, daughter Susannah, 10 February 1761
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JWWY-HBN

Then a baptism in Wantage, 28 Sep 1763, Anthony Shaylor (born 26 Sep), parents James and Ann. Presumably named after James' brother.
Sheylor here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3D3-FF4

Possible, also Wantage, 29 Nov 1767, Mary Shale (born 24 Nov), parents James and Anne.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NPRD-KY1

After which they seem to disappear!
John
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: Jeninnz on Monday 31 August 20 05:21 BST (UK)
jonw65

Thanks again for looking.  I will try and put all the info I have below, most of which comes from research done by a relative but which I'm questioning.
Thomas Shailer 1696-1777 marries Elizabeth Guy abt 1695-abt 1770 in 1722. Both born & married in Berkshire but both died in Middlesex.
They have the following children all born in Berkshire.
Thomas 1723-1725
Anthony 1724-1782
John 1727
Elizabeth1730
James 1733

Anthony marries Ann Vokins (born1726) in 1748 in Chelsea
Their children are
James 1749 b Berkshire
Joseph 1752-1752 Berkshire
Anthony 1753 Berkshire
Henry 1755 Kensington
Ann 1757 Kensington
John 1760-1824 Kensington
Francis 1762-1830 Kensington
Richard 1768-1768 Kensington

James 1733 marries Ann Haggat in Berkshire in 1760
Their children are Susannah 1761 Berkshire and probably the Anthony 1763 you found??

Then according to my relative he marries Isabella Lazenby in 1776 in Soho London and  has these children all in Chelsea
Elizabeth Mary Ann 1778
Ann Vokins 1780-1799
Isabella 1782
James 1785-1858
Samuel1787-1838
Eleanor Amelia 1790

This is where I start questioning as I believe these children are to James born 1748 ( son of Anthony and Ann Vokins) and not the James 1733.
I do know for a fact that the Shailer families did start from Berkshire and go then go to Chelsea and surrounding area as they were gardeners and nurserymen and Henry born 1755 ( Son of Anthony and Ann) bred roses and has one named the Shailer White Moss Rose.

I hope all of this makes sense and you can see my dilemma in sorting which James Isabella married.
Thanks
Jen
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: jonw65 on Monday 31 August 20 13:14 BST (UK)
Hi
I think you are right, and your James is very likely to be the younger one, born to Anthony Shailer and Ann Vokins.
I have got hold of some transcripts and can confirm that the following were baptized at Kensington to James and Isabel Shailer of Little Chelsea. Several record that James was a gardener. Isabella 1782 is bap 14 July 1782 as Isabel.

Elizabeth Mary Ann 1778
Ann Vokins 1780-1799
Isabella 1782
James 1785-1858
Samuel1787-1838
Eleanor Amelia 1790

Also in there is another Anthony Shailer, bap 16 Feb 1783, son of Henry + Charity Lee, gardener, Little Chelsea.
John
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: Jeninnz on Wednesday 02 September 20 01:35 BST (UK)
Thanks again for all the help. I have at last been able to make contact with my relative in the UK and she is going to look into these two James's and see what she comes up with.
 This relative worked on the Daring Pioneers book and knows there could be mistakes in it.  It was written before we could see on the GRO maiden names for children after 1837 and this has also brought into question a few family details which I'm also working on.  I'm like a doggie with a bone lol
I'm looking forward to hearing as to who is more likely to have the correct family groups.
Cheers
Jen
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: Jeninnz on Monday 11 October 21 21:04 BST (UK)
Hi
I think you are right, and your James is very likely to be the younger one, born to Anthony Shailer and Ann Vokins.
I have got hold of some transcripts and can confirm that the following were baptized at Kensington to James and Isabel Shailer of Little Chelsea. Several record that James was a gardener. Isabella 1782 is bap 14 July 1782 as Isabel.

Elizabeth Mary Ann 1778
Ann Vokins 1780-1799
Isabella 1782
James 1785-1858
Samuel1787-1838
Eleanor Amelia 1790

Also in there is another Anthony Shailer, bap 16 Feb 1783, son of Henry + Charity Lee, gardener, Little Chelsea.
John

Hi, Iím back working on this line and wondered if you have the actual dates for these children, not just the years. It would be wonderful if you do.  I really appreciate your help.
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: jonw65 on Monday 11 October 21 21:58 BST (UK)
Hi again
I must have them written down somewhere, but not to hand right at the moment.
But I will have a look see if I can find them in my archive ;D
John
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: Jeninnz on Monday 11 October 21 23:15 BST (UK)
Hi again
I must have them written down somewhere, but not to hand right at the moment.
But I will have a look see if I can find them in my archive ;D
John

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
Jen
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: jonw65 on Thursday 14 October 21 13:03 BST (UK)
Update. Slight glitch at the moment, I can't find them! Watch this space, hopefully I will be able to.
John
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: Jeninnz on Thursday 14 October 21 19:36 BST (UK)
Update. Slight glitch at the moment, I can't find them! Watch this space, hopefully I will be able to.
John

I really hope you do and I really appreciate you trying to help.
Thanks
Jen
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: Jeninnz on Sunday 31 October 21 06:27 GMT (UK)
Update. Slight glitch at the moment, I can't find them! Watch this space, hopefully I will be able to.
John

Just wondering if you have had any luck with finding the records?
Jen
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: jonw65 on Wednesday 10 November 21 13:28 GMT (UK)
Hi
No, I seem to have mislaid them :-[
They must have come from a (rare) visit to the SoG. If I can find them, I will post.
John
Title: Re: Birth for Isabella Lazenby
Post by: Jeninnz on Wednesday 10 November 21 18:55 GMT (UK)
Hi
No, I seem to have mislaid them :-[
They must have come from a (rare) visit to the SoG. If I can find them, I will post.
John

Thanks so much for looking.  Maybe one day they will surface. 
Jen.