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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Nick93 on Sunday 30 August 20 20:51 BST (UK)
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Hello, everyone. I was wondering if anyone could help me with interpreting this marriage record from Wurttemberg in the 17th century?
https://i.imgur.com/AQEsohV.jpg
The bride was from Backnang in the parish of Burgstall, and she and the groom lived in Kirchberg an der Murr, a village nearby where the groom was from. The online family tree this was connected to says the marriage was in the Kirchberg marriage register, but the couple married in Backnang. I think I can see the word 'Backnang' written in the second line, but I don't know if it's just stating the bride's home town or if it's saying they married there. If they did get married there, would the marriage be registered at the groom's home parish as well? Also, it mentions someone who was an organist, but the OP had a note saying it was unclear whether this was referring to the groom or to his father. The two men had the same name Erhard Ortwein.
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Hello Nick,
Here's my attempt to decipher the text:
1687
den 3. May hat zu Burstall hochzeit gehalten Johann Erhardt Orthwein, Erhardt Orthweins
weyland geweßenen Gerichtsverwandten v[ndt] Stiftsund[ter]pfleger zu Backnang hind[ter]laßener Ehelicher Sohn
So {bißchen} die Orgel geschlag mit Anna Maria, Michel Dorn..., geweßenen Schulmeisters
daßelbst v[ndt] {anitzo} Bürg'meisters v[ndt] Gerichtsverwandten Eheliche Tochter denen D[er] Allerheiligste
Sein[en] vätterlich[en] Seeg[en] wolte geben
I'm not entirely sure about Gerichtsverwandten, the "G" is unlike any I have previously seen. However, nothing else makes sense in the position and context.
The text mostly follows the standard formulation (with archaic spellings) that I have seen in other early registers from Württemberg. However, the mention of the "Orgel" is out of place, and as I am not sure of the previous word, I can't make sense of it.
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Thank you so much, Justin! As the record describes the marriage happening in Backnang (which is 9.8 kilometers/about 6 miles from Kirchberg), would it be typical for a marriage taking place in such a nearby parish to be recorded in the groom's home parish instead of the bride's? Or is a marriage book different from a church's marriage register, and records the marriages of everyone from the village/parish regardless of where the marriage took place?
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You're welcome.
Kirchenbuch is the parish or church register.
The wedding "was held" in Burgstall (Zu Burstall hochzeit gehalten), the town where Anna Maria's father appears to have been the mayor (Bürgermeister), if I have deciphered the text correctly. Furthermore, the groom's father, who had held offices in Backnang, was dead.
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Thank you. :) Looking at Family Search's explanation on a Heiratregister, I guess it was the civil document, as opposed to the Kirchenbuch: "Most couples also had a church wedding, so records may exist for both the civil and church ceremonies. " So I'm guessing the religious ceremony itself was in Burgstall and then the civil registration happened in Kirchberg.
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I'm not sure what explanation you're looking at, but in 1687, there was no such thing as civil registration. Throughout Europe, one could only marry in a church.
In modern Germany, however, the civil ceremony is the legally binding one. I believe this dates back to the Napoleonic occupation of much of Germany in the early 19th century.
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Ah, it looks like you're right. Looks like I misread it and it was only areas under Napoleon's control that introduced civil registration.
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Germany_Civil_Registration#Marriages_.28Heiraten.2C_Ehen.2C_or_Trauungen.29
I was just trying to figure out why the wedding happened in Burgstall but was in the Kirchberg Heiratregister, unless with the parishes being so close together had something to do with it.
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Hello Nick,
Are you absolutely certain that the page is from the Kirchberg register? It is entirely possible that the marriage was recorded in both registers. You can check on www.archion.de (http://www.archion.de)
The word before Bürgermeister is anietzo, an archaic word meaning "now". So Michael Dorn had been a teacher, but at the time of his daughter's marriage he was the mayor of Burgstall.
You might find this German website of use: http://www.gedbas.de/person/show/1169269218 (http://www.gedbas.de/person/show/1169269218)
The Ortweins/Orthweins had quite an attachment to the name Erhardt. Here is the grave of an earlier Erhardt Ortwein, who died on 15 Feb 1622, and was buried in the cemetery in Kirchberg.
http://www.inschriften.net/rems-murr-kreis/inschrift/nr/di037-0282.html#content (http://www.inschriften.net/rems-murr-kreis/inschrift/nr/di037-0282.html#content)
You might spot that he had been the Gerichtsverwandter in Kirchberg.
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Oh, thank you very much for those links. I am pretty certain this particular record was in Kirchberg, here it is on Archion:
https://i.imgur.com/aqy2OBz.png
Was that something of a common practice if a couple married in a parish close to their home town, but for it to be written down perhaps when they get home? Archion describes this being recorded in the Ehereregister rather than the Heiratregister, which from what I can tell both mean a marriage registration, though I'm not sure if there is some difference between them.
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Do you have any credits with Archion to check whether the marriage was duplicated in the Burgstall register? You would need to look in the Mischbuch 1599 - 1738.
We can only ever speculate about why our ancestors chose to marry in a certain location; that applies in any country and in any period. In this case, I am certain that the fact that the bride's father was the mayor of Burgstall, a respected pillar of the community, must have played a role. One can imagine that he arranged quite a sumptuous wedding. Furthermore, it's reasonable to assume that Anna Maria was living with her father in Burgstall at the time. What makes you think that she was somewhere else?
Did the happy couple have any children? If so, where were they baptised?
Archion has standardised the descriptions of the registers. You would need to look at the original records to see the title used by the vicar who maintained the register. Eheregister, Heiratsregister and Trauungsregister are all the same thing. In early registers, you will generally see the term Copulation, and the couple copulirt.
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Oh, I didn't think of that, but you're probably right, that her father's position in Burgstall was the reason the marriage took place there. I'm still figuring out Archion, but thank you so much for providing that link, I think it's going to be very helpful!