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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: grantleydawn on Tuesday 01 September 20 03:24 BST (UK)
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I am trying to interpret a 1450 Will and I was hoping someone could help me please. In particular the children underlined in red. I am hoping the boy is Radulphus and the girl is Margarete.
The other part that I can’t crack is the repetitive wording for each child, that follows the word meo.
Grantley
line 1
lego eidum Alicie uxor mee
line 2
line 3
lego Johnnes filio meo . . . . xj li xiij s iiij d et . . . . C marcs? Itm lego Thome filio meo . . . .
line 4
. . . . Itm Rad’s filio meo . . . . x iiij s & . . . . C marcas
line 5
Itm lego Alicie filie mee . . . . x iiij s et . . . . libras It lego Margarete filie mee in
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The boy is Rad(ulph)o as it should be - the dative ending meaning to Ralph.
The girl's name is a little trickier. It ends _garete. It appears to begin with an M which possibly has an upward sweep indicating that -ar- is contracted. However then there's an apparent a before the g. Also the writer contracts the same letters differently in m(ar)c(as).
If that apparent upward sweep is not a contraction mark, then it's probably Magarete.
Regarding the phrase, I think it is (to take Alice as the clearest example):
...i(n) Jocalib(us) de [plate?/place?] x m(ar)c(as) et i(n) moneta Centu(m) libras...
I can't make a sensible translation of the Jocalibus de [plate?/place?] and internet searches don't give a match. I will be interested to see Bookbox's interpretation.
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Thank you.
I can now see that he appears to be giving a value, split between jewels and money. Something that I hadn't considered.
Thanks again, regards Grantley
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I can't make a sensible translation of the Jocalibus de [plate?/place?] and internet searches don't give a match. I will be interested to see Bookbox's interpretation.
I think the sense is as you have it, and I can’t usefully add much.
The actual wording may be ... in Jocalibus de plate. Jocale can be a jewel or any other precious object; one meaning for plata is ‘precious metal’.
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Thanks, Bookbox. I usually use Eileen Gooder's book and the online William Whitaker's Words, but neither recognizes Jocale/Jocalibus or plata/plate.
ADDED:
I should have said: ...recognizes those meanings of Jocale/Jocalibus or plata/plate.
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Also highly recommended:
R. E. Latham, Revised Medieval Latin Word-List (Oxford University Press, 1965)
Pricey, but used copies are often available online.
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I use The Record Interpreter by C.T. Martin, first published in 1898 - I picked up a secondhand copy of a later edition at a FH fair some years ago.
This has both jocale (a jewel) and plata (a flat piece of unwrought metal, ingot).
(Sorry I didn't mention this earlier - I was fixated on it being a place, and only looked in the place names section. :-[)
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Thank you both. I shall keep a lookout...
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I use The Record Interpreter by C.T. Martin, first published in 1898 - I picked up a secondhand copy of a later edition at a FH fair some years ago.
This book is free online: https://archive.org/details/recordinterprete00martiala/page/n359/mode/2up
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I use The Record Interpreter by C.T. Martin, first published in 1898 - I picked up a secondhand copy of a later edition at a FH fair some years ago.
This book is free online: https://archive.org/details/recordinterprete00martiala/page/n359/mode/2up
Yes! I'd forgotten that, thank you. (Don't you EVER sleep?)
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Just off to bed now. Good night to all.
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Excellent.
Thank you everyone for your help.
Regards
Grantley