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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: tempogold on Thursday 03 September 20 14:04 BST (UK)
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Hello
Edwin Giles was born 28/11/1857 in Upchurch kent and at some stage -perhaps between 1891 and 1909 was in the Met Police in London. No occupation given on 1891 Census. And I can not find him on the 1901. But in 1909 he left the Police and a copy of his Pension record is on Ancestry. In 1911 living at 85a Evering road Stoke Newington , London with wife and daughter and a Boarder. He is now working as a Timekeeper . I would like to know how to get his service records--sorry dont know his police number or anything about his time in the Police . He died 1915 in Hackney London .
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Maybe something on TNA website
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=metropolitan+police+records&_sd=&_ed=&_hb=
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This isn't quite what you asked for but may be of interest.
There are a couple of news items that refer to Edwin's death.
The People
18 Apr 1915
Constable Falls Dead
While on duty at Clapton, PC Edwin Giles fell dead. Many years ago Giles was a warrant officer at North London Police Court. He re-joined the police force on the outbreak of the war.
Illustrated Police News
29 Apr 1915
Inquests
A Wealthy Constable
At an inquest held at Hackney on the body of Edwin Giles, a Clapton police constable, who fell to the ground and expired before medical aid could be obtained while on duty, it was stated that when the body was searched at the mortuary the sum of £9 in gold was found.
The coroner (Dr Wynn Westcott) remarked to his officer, "I hope not many of your constables carry so much money about. It is very unwise, as they might get in a melee and lose it. Evidently he was a rich man."
The evidence showed that Giles retired from the force six years ago, and at the time of his death was on temporary duty. He had always seemed well.
The medical evidence showed that death was due to valvular disease of the heart, and a verdict to that effect was returned.
There are a couple of news items, summarised below, that seem to be for the same Edwin Giles, with collar (?) number 62 NR.
Hackney and Kingsland Gazette
02 Oct 1903
Destitute Family At Stoke Newington
- John Stephens, 45, tailor, and wife Eliza
- of no home
- charged at North London Police Court
- with wilfully neglecting and exposing their 3 children in such a manner as to likely cause them unnecessary suffering or injury to health
- children: Leslie (7), Frederick (5), Francis (1)
- Constable Giles, 62 NR, said that at quarter to eight on Tuesday night
- he saw the woman in Christ Street, Stoke Newington
- she was carrying the baby and the other 2 children were holding onto her skirts
- it was raining hard and all the family appeared wet through
- the woman took children to an open gateway and left them
- Giles follow woman top public house and stopped her
- woman was drunk and said she was looking for her husband, who was in one of the public houses
- Giles took the woman back to her children and pointed out their wretched state
- at that time the husband came up and said they had been evicted from their rooms at Tottenham on Saturday
- Mr Fordham said that if people had no home there was the workhouse
- and that they could not be allowed to prejudice the health of little children
- John and Eliza remanded for inquiries
Illustrated Police News
23 Jul 1904
North London
Promotion In Stoke
- Emily Smith, 43, married, refused to give address
- Eliza Griffin, 25, married, of Queensbury Street, Islington
- involved in stealing skirt worth 5s
- Smith sentenced to 7 days imprisonment
- Griffin sentenced to 3 days imprisonment
- sentenced by Mr Fordham
- Constable Edwin Giles, 62 NR,
- saw prisoners leave Stoke Newington Road and go into Gordon Road
- where Smith took something from under her shawl
- Constable Giles stopped the woman, and finding the skirt, took them into custody
- Constable Ruddiford made inquiries and found skirt stolen to be from shop in High Street
- Mr Fordham stated a great many more robberies would be found out if more constables as
- careful as Constable Giles
- Mr Fordham had commended the officer before, and had pleasure in doing so again
- Mr Fordham marked his sheet as follows:
- "I think Police-constable Giles, 62 NR, is worth of commendation for his careful and
- astute conduct in this case. This constable is usually very alert, and has done
- exceptionally good work. - E. Snow Fordham."
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There are a quite a few news items that reference a constable Giles, often with collar (?) number 156 N, in relation to the North London Police Court. It's difficult to know for sure whether it's Edwin, or even the same constable, but given the remarks by Mr Fordham on the 1904 item it's seems possible that at least some are. Below are a few of note.
Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper
27 Nov 1898
- Police constable Giles, 156 N
- on duty in Shacklewell-lane Clapton
- saw fellow named Alfred Playford, aged 19, bookmaker
- running along hatless
- PC Giles stopped Playford and asked what became of his hat
- Playford stammered and gave false address
- Giles took him to station
- a reported assault by a a gang of "hooligans" about 1/4 mile from where Playford arrested
- Playford proved to be one of the ruffians wanted
- 3 or 4 men and women set upon by about 15 young brutes
- Playford was one of the attackers
- Giles set out to run down rest of attackers
- arrested ringleader, Stephen Pearce
- Pearce and Giles were before Mr Fordham at North London Police Court yesterday
- Pearce sentenced to 2 months hard labour
- Fordham highly commended Giles for his smart conduct
- Giles hopes to bring other ruffians to justice
Hackney and Kingsland Gazette
24 Dec 1900
Theft Of A Bicycle
A Constable Commended
- at North London Police Court
- William Hilton, 40, otherwise Fielder
- paperhanger
- with no home
- Charles Wallace, 22
- of no occupation
- with no fixed abode
- charged with been concerned together in stealing a bicycle
- property of George Youngs, butcher, of Grand Parade, Harringay
- Youngs was making call at house on Wednesday afternoon, in Seven Sisters
- left bicycle outside and was in house probably 10 minutes
- when he returned the bicycle was gone
- Youngs next saw bicycle at Newington Police Station
- Police constable Giles, 156 N, said he saw prisoners loitering in the neighbourhood of "Manor House"
- they watched Youngs get off bicycle and leave it
- when Youngs was inside house Wallace turned bicycle round and wheeled it away
- Giles directed another constable to follow Hilton
- Giles got in van and when he got level with Wallace and the bicycle,
- he got out and arrested the man
- prisoners were remanded for inquiries
- Mr Fordham marked the sheet: "I think Police constable Giles, 156 N, deserves commendation for his clever conduct in this case. He kept his eyes open and acted with intelligence. - E Snow Fordham."
Islington Gazette
08 Jan 1902
Burglaries At Highbury
The Detective's Clever Disguise
- John Williams, 58, a traveller
- of Graham Street, City Road
- charged, on remand, at North London Police Court, yesterday
- with burgling the house of Mr James Allen, restaurateur, of 137 Green Lanes
- and stealing some overcoats, gloves and a hat
- last week committed for 3 other charges of burglary at Highbury Newpark
- stolen umbrella and hat identified by Mr Allen found in room occupied by Williams
- at Graham Street
- Witness: Mrs Jane Barry, landlady of house at Graham Street
- Williams claimed to have had umbrella and hat before burglaries
- Barry could not swear to that
- Barry stated she understood Williams was a compositor,
- which accounted for his being so frequently away at night
- Mr Fordham re-called Constable Giles, of N division, who arrested the prisoner
- Giles said he saw Williams loitering at Stamford Hill and arrested him on suspicion
- Williams had housebreaking implements on him
- which he stated were tools used in his business as a carpenter
- Inspector Nicholls subsequently found the "tools" corresponded with marks upon 4 separate houses which had been burgled
- Mr Fordham (to Constable Giles): I believe that when you stopped the prisoner you were made up as a labourer?
- PC Giles: Yes. I had a sack over my shoulders, and was apparently watching a steam roller. (laughter)
- Mr Fordham: To see that nobody stole the steam roller? (laughter)
- PC Giles: Or anything else.
- Mr Fordham: Did anybody suggest that disguise?
- PC Giles: No, we are allowed to adopt any disguise we please.
- Mr Fordham: I have had on occasion to commend you before, and I do so now, because I consider you acted very cleverly and shrewdly in affecting this capture.
- PC Giles: Thank you, sir.
- Constable Keeble, who was also concerned in the case, said that the prisoner remarked
- that he did not care for forty uniform policemen, but that old man with the sack
- made up as a watchman quite outwitted him (laughter, in which the prisoner joined)
- Williams still asserted his innocence, and tried to show he had been drinking on that night
- Mr Fordham said he could tell all that to the jury at the Central Criminal Court
- to which he was now committed
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Maybe something on TNA website
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=metropolitan+police+records&_sd=&_ed=&_hb=
It is easier to just search using his name. You can download for free at the moment but you have to download the whole file and then go through it for his record.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14167947
Debra :)
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I had been told he died on duty but was confused as I had him retiring in in 1909 its --starting to make sense. Very many thanks to you all i feel i WANT to get to know him better.
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I have members of the Metropolitan (and other forces) police in my family, and in 2015 had a reply regarding their service details from the following address:
HeritageCentre@met.pnn.police.uk
this might be worthwhile following up
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Many Thanks had not heard of this.
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If you go to Old Bailey Online you'll find a searchable database of all the trials at the Old Bailey (which was the petty sessional court of Middlesex as well as the Central Criminal Court in the 19th century).
If you put his name in as a search term, you'll get a list of hits which will give you all the cases where he gave evidence, and that will give you a pretty clear picture of his police career. You'll be able to deduce approximate dates of joining and leaving, and any promotions he may have had.
I derived immense amounts of information from doing this for my great x3 grandfather Robert Packman, who was in the City of London police.
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Thank You . What I love about this about this site the vast amount of knowledge people have and so willingly share to help others.
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I had 5 great uncles who were policemen, 4 in the Met and one in the City police. The records at The National Archives were very useful, they gave physical descriptions and details about former employers etc. Pension records tell you how much they were allowed for coal, their marriage date and place, ages of children etc. Invaluable.
Just wish my grandfather - another brother - was taller. He was too short to join the police and I don't have nearly as much detail about him!